Is there any Biblical evidence that describes Jesus as God?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Walter
  • Start date Start date
  • Replies Replies 251
  • Views Views 33K
Do you remember why the Jews wanted to kill Jesus? Because he committed blasphemy.

What form did his blasphemy take? He made himself equal with God.
John 5:18 "For this reason the Jews tried all the harder to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God."


Further we know that the son is not a created being, but an eternal being:
"For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son to have life in himself." (John 5:26)

Can anyone other than God give people the Spirit? Yet, we know that Jesus gives the Spirit:
"If anyone is thirsty, let him come to me and drink. Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, streams of living water will flow from within him." By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive.
(John 7:37b-39a)​

In light of what Jesus said to the woman at the well in John 4 -- that he offers water that will become in us a spring of water welling up to eternal life -- it appears that Jesus is saying that he offers to people the gift of the Holy Spirit. Yet, in John 3, speaking with Nicodemus, Jesus made it clear that the Spirit blows wherever He pleases. Thus the only way that Jesus could be able to promise to give the Spirit to any person would be if he was able to personally identify himself with the Spirit. It is this same Spirit that flows within a person as a stream of living water, which Jesus also identified himself with. The only way this makes sense is if we understand that Jesus and the Spirit are one and the same. As Jesus is corpreal and the Spirit is not, this then only makes sense if we are able to understand that Jesus is more than he appears to be based solely on our five senses. And with this understanding that Jesus is more than just what meets one eye, passages like John 8:58 ("Before Abraham was born, I am!") and John 10:30 ("I and the Father are one.") no longer become cryptic speach, but clear statements of Jesus' incarnated diety. And though I doubt that the Jews understood that this was true, they did understand that this was what Jesus was claiming and on both occassionaly, subsequently sought to stone him for blasphemy:
John 10:31-33
31Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, 32but Jesus said to them, "I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?"

33"We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God."

John, who was selective in what he included and did not include in this Gospel, puts this in because he wants us to know that this is who Jesus is. For him to say as he would at the close of his gospel that he wrote it to introduce us to Jesus as the Son of God, and not to see this as synonymous with Jesus being divine would require John to include some commentary on the Jews' statement. He does not. The reason is because for John the statement that "you, a mere man, claim to be God" and "these are written so that you may believe that jesus is the Christ, the Son of God..." (John 20:31) are saying one and the same thing. They are saying that we should join Thomas in the acclamation that Jesus is "My Lord and my God!"


You can say that you don't believe it to be true. But it is to twist John to saying something different than he intended to say that this was not his view.
 
Last edited:
Really?

King Richard the Lionhearted was known to travel incognito through his country. On one such travels a man saw him pass by and knelt before him. Richard stopped and asked, "Why do you kneel? No man must kneel before another man in England unless that man be King."

So, in your mind Richard was denying that he was king, but in my mind he was trying to discern if the man recognized Richard for who he truly was.

The obvious interpretation of, "Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone," is, "I am not good," not, "I am God." The passage goes:

As [Jesus] was setting out on his journey, a man ran up and knelt before him, and asked him, "Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?" And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone. You know the commandments: 'Do not kill, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud, Honor your father and mother.'" (Mark 10:17-19, RSV)

The man asks him, good teacher, what is the way to heaven, and Jesus (P) asks him why he calls him good since only God is good, and then tells him that he knows very well what the virtues are, and lists them. It's very easy to understand. To interpret it as containing a proclamation of divinity makes no sense in the context.
 
The obvious interpretation of, "Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone," is, "I am not good," not, "I am God." The passage goes:

As [Jesus] was setting out on his journey, a man ran up and knelt before him, and asked him, "Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?" And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone. You know the commandments: 'Do not kill, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud, Honor your father and mother.'" (Mark 10:17-19, RSV)

The man asks him, good teacher, what is the way to heaven, and Jesus (P) asks him why he calls him good since only God is good, and then tells him that he knows very well what the virtues are, and lists them. It's very easy to understand. To interpret it as containing a proclamation of divinity makes no sense in the context.


I've heard this view before and posted my take on it more times than I care to count. You don't have to buy it. But I believe it is safe to say that you're not going to change my mind anymore than I'm going to change yours. It is specifically in the context that it does make sense. It is only when you remove the context that your interpretation would be the more reasonable one.
 
Last edited:
Hi Grace Seeker:

Let us examine the Biblical verses that you have offered as evidence that Jesus is God.

1. The Testimony of the Jewish Religious Leaders

“I and My Father are one.” Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him. Jesus answered them, “Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?” The Jews answered Him, saying, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God.” Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your law, ‘I said, “You are gods”’? If He called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken), do you say of Him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’? (John 10:30–36)
The basic assumption is that the Jewish leaders’ assessment of Jesus’ statements is correct. A critical review of this basic assumption is long overdue. Let us first analyse the evidence.

1. The Jews interpreted Jesus’ statement “I and my Father are one” to mean that Jesus was making Himself God.

2. Jesus appeared to show, from their law how, they had completely misunderstood Him. Jesus stated: Is it not written in your law, ‘I said, “You are gods”’?

3. Jesus appeared to correct them by stating “I said, I am the Son of God”.

Now, let us attempt to examine the basic assumption, which you and George Eldon Ladd simply accepted as true. Why are you so eager to believe these witnesses. You must be aware that Jesus disagreed with all but one of the Jewish leaders’ interpretations. He not only rejected their interpretations as false, but rejected them for misleading the Jewish people. Jesus’ harshest words are actually reserved for these same people whose testimony you are offering as evidence. Remember this?

Brood of vipers! How can you, being evil, speak good things? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. (Matthew 12:34)

Or how about this indictment.

“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which indeed appear beautiful outwardly, but inside are full of dead men’s bones and all uncleanness. Even so you also outwardly appear righteous to men, but inside you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness. “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! Because you build the tombs of the prophets and adorn the monuments of the righteous, and say, ‘If we had lived in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.’ “Therefore you are witnesses against yourselves that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets. Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers’ guilt. Serpents, brood of vipers! How can you escape the condemnation of hell? (Matthew 23:27-32)
Are you sure that you want to build a doctrine upon the foundation of the interpretations of these people whose interpretations and character Jesus severely condemned? Are you really sure that you want to continue the 1,800 year old Christian religious tradition of basing the doctrine of Jesus’ deity on the testimony of these clowns? Are you very sure GS?

Please note that Jesus never agreed with their accusation, but appeared to show them how they had misunderstood Him, and then attempted to correct them.


2. Jesus’ Statement ‘I and My Father are One.

The basic assumption, that was not allowed to be verified for the past 1,800 years, is that Jesus being one with the Father meant that Jesus is God. In seeking to verify this assumption, we note Jesus’ prayer for future believers.

“I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word; that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me. And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one: I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me. (John 17:20–23)

So Jesus prays that all believers may be one with the Father, just as He and the Father are one. The original Greek word used for one (hĕis) in Jesus’ statement “I and the Father are one [hĕis]”, is the same word used when Jesus prayed that His disciples may be “one [hĕis] in us”. Since believers are not meant to become gods through becoming one with the Father, then Jesus being one with the Father is not sufficient evidence that Jesus is God.

3. Jesus gives the Spirit

The basic assumption is that since Jesus promises the Spirit, that Jesus and the Spirit are One and the same. Actually, let me repeat your statement for convenience.

Thus the only way that Jesus could be able to promise to give the Spirit to any person would be if he was able to personally identify himself with the Spirit. It is this same Spirit that flows within a person as a stream of living water, which Jesus also identified himself with. The only way this makes sense is if we understand that Jesus and the Spirit are one and the same.

The scriptures are clear that Jesus did what God told Him to do.

For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak. And I know that His command is everlasting life. Therefore, whatever I speak, just as the Father has told Me, so I speak.” (John 12:49-50)

Therefore, Jesus made promises because God told Him to. This is not evidence that Jesus is God.

Regards,
Grenville
 
Grace Seeker said:
It is specifically in the context that it does make sense. It is only when you remove the context that your interpretation would be the more reasonable one.

How so, pray tell?
 
How so, pray tell?
The context is that Mark uses this incident to show that Jesus offers the man the eternal life that he is seeking. Life that is found NOT in the keeping of any set of commandments (though God gave them), but in the following of Jesus. Now that makes sense only if following the man Jesus is of a higher order than following the divine law. And that answer to the search for eternal life doesn't make sense unless Jesus is more than just human.
 
The scriptures are clear that Jesus did what God told Him to do.

For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak. And I know that His command is everlasting life. Therefore, whatever I speak, just as the Father has told Me, so I speak.” (John 12:49-50)

Therefore, Jesus made promises because God told Him to. This is not evidence that Jesus is God.

Regards,
Grenville

You switched the nouns making an assumption that the terms "God" and "Father" are synonymns. That isn't the case. When Jesus says that he speaks not by his own authority, but by what the Father has given him, he is simply illustrating that even within the Godhead there are different roles that each has as they internally relate to one another as distinct persons and externally relate to humanity.
 
You switched the nouns making an assumption that the terms "God" and "Father" are synonymns. That isn't the case. When Jesus says that he speaks not by his own authority, but by what the Father has given him, he is simply illustrating that even within the Godhead there are different roles that each has as they internally relate to one another as distinct persons and externally relate to humanity.

OK Grace Seeker:

It was not intentional. There is just an over-abundance of evidence that shows that God and Jesus are separate, and that the Father is God. The problem is that in the past, even referring to it in order to question religious traditions could lead to merciless torture and death. Unfortunately, Islamic religious tradition is not learning from Christian religious tradition’s mistakes. Well, let us get to this ‘over-abundance of evidence’ before they come for me.

1. Evidence from Acts

The messages of the apostles recorded in the Book of Acts in the Bible repeatedly, consistently and explicitly show that Jesus and God were two separate and distinct persons. For example:

“Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.” (Acts 2:36)

Just in case you thought that I produced an obscure verse, you can read a few more: Acts 2:22, 36; 3:13,36; 4:10; 5:30; 7:55,59; 8:12,37; 10:36, 38; 11:17; 13:23,33; 20:21,24; 28:23,31

2. Evidence from Paul

Paul wrote to the church in: Rome, Corinth, Galatia, Ephesus, Philippi, Colossi, and Thessalonica. He also wrote to Timothy, Titus, and Philemon. Letters were also written by the disciples James, Peter, and John. They all repeatedly mention Jesus and God, and consistently and explicitly describe them as separate persons.

You can read the following explicit evidence for yourself: Romans 1:1, 7, 8; 2:16; 3:22; 5:1, 11, 15; 6:11, 23; 7:25; 8:39; 10:9; 15:5, 6, 8, 16, 17, 30; 16:20, 27; 1 Corinthians 1:1, 2, 3, 4, 9, 30; 6:11; 8:6; 12:3; 15:57; 2 Corinthians 1:1, 2, 3, 19; 4:6; 5:18; 11:31; 13:14; Galatians 1:1, 3; 3:26; 4:14; 6:14; Ephesians 1:1, 2, 3, 17; 2:10; 3:9; 5:20; 6:23; Philippians 1:2, 8, 11: 2:11; 3:3, 14; 4:7, 19; Colossians 1:1, 2, 3; 3:17; 4:11; 1 Thessalonians 1:1, 3, 2:14, 15; 3:11, 13; 4:1, 14; 5:9, 18, 23; 2 Thessalonians 1:1, 2, 8, 12; 2:16; 1 Timothy 1:1, 2, 12; 2:5; 5:21; 6:3,13; 2 Timothy 1:1, 2; 3:12; 4:1; Titus 1:1, 4; 2:13; Philemon 1:3; Hebrews 2:9; 4:14; 12:2; 13:20; James 1:1; 1 Peter 1:2,3,13; 2:5; 3:21; 4:11; 5:10; 2 Peter 1:1,2; 1 John 4:2,3,15; 5:1,5,6,20; 2 John 1:3; Jude 1:1,4, 21; Revelation 1:1,2,9; 12:17; 14:12; 19:10; 20:4

Also, Paul consistently identifies the One God as the Father.

There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. (Ephesians 4:4–6)

yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live. (1 Corinthians 8:6)​

Paul also repeatedly identified the Father as the God of Jesus. Here is a sample of this evidence.

Now may the God of patience and comfort grant you to be like-minded toward one another, according to Christ Jesus, that you may with one mind and one mouth glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. (Romans 15:5–6)

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and God of all comfort, (2 Corinthians 1:3)

The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who is blessed forever, knows that I am not lying. (2 Corinthians 11:31)

that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him (Ephesians 1:17)

We give thanks to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you, (Colossians 1:3)​

3. Evidence from Jesus

Jesus identifies His disciples as His brethren after His death, and identifies their common Father as God.

Jesus said to her, “Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, ‘I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.’” (John 20:17)​

Jesus also identified the Father as the only true God.

And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. (John 17:3)​

Jesus actually refers to God as “My Father” approximately 50 times in the Gospels, and “the Father” approximately 70 times in the Gospels.

I have learnt that for persons who have submitted to their religious traditions, no amount of evidence will ever be enough. If the conflicting evidence is too compelling, then it is simply ignored. Even Jesus could not get the religious leaders to let go of their divisive traditions to pursue the Truth.

He said to them, “All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition. (Mark 7:9)​

Regards,
Grenville
 
Let me put it this way, Grace Seeker: if you were the man who went up to this guy whom everyone says is working wonders and giving teachings, and you asked him what you have to do to be good and he replied, "Why do you call me 'good'? No one is good but God alone," would your interpretation of that statement more likely be that the man was being modest about his own goodness or that he was proclaiming his divinity?
 
Let me put it this way, Grace Seeker: if you were the man who went up to this guy whom everyone says is working wonders and giving teachings, and you asked him what you have to do to be good and he replied, "Why do you call me 'good'? No one is good but God alone," would your interpretation of that statement more likely be that the man was being modest about his own goodness or that he was proclaiming his divinity?
You just proved my point. If it is him being modest about his own goodness, then it is NOT him saying that he is not good. Since only God can be good, then it is also NOT him saying that he is not God.
 
1. Evidence from Acts

The messages of the apostles recorded in the Book of Acts in the Bible repeatedly, consistently and explicitly show that Jesus and God were two separate and distinct persons. For example:

“Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.” (Acts 2:36)

Just in case you thought that I produced an obscure verse, you can read a few more: Acts 2:22, 36; 3:13,36; 4:10; 5:30; 7:55,59; 8:12,37; 10:36, 38; 11:17; 13:23,33; 20:21,24; 28:23,31
And what does it mean to say that Jesus is both Lord and Christ? It means that Jesus is more than just Christ. Jesus is also Lord. To understand this as it was by the first century church, the reference means more than just a title like Lords of England, or to say "sir" to someone today. To be Lord, was to be in a position of authority. The only LORD recognized by devout Jews was the LORD God, Yahweh. To ascribe this type of Lordship to Jesus is exactly why I reject your proposition that the Bible does not present Jesus as God. The very verse you cite does.

2. Evidence from Paul


yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live. (1 Corinthians 8:6)[/INDENT][/I]


Paul also repeatedly identified the Father as the God of Jesus. Here is a sample of this evidence.

Now may the God of patience and comfort grant you to be like-minded toward one another, according to Christ Jesus, that you may with one mind and one mouth glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. (Romans 15:5–6)

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and God of all comfort, (2 Corinthians 1:3)

The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who is blessed forever, knows that I am not lying. (2 Corinthians 11:31)

that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him (Ephesians 1:17)

We give thanks to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you, (Colossians 1:3)​
This is your best evidence. (Not just in this post, but in the entire thread.) It is especially so because of the way that the Hebrew mind (remember, though he wrote in Greek and to Greek speakers, Paul was a Jew and as a Pharisee he was trained in Hebrew interpretation of the scriptures) used conjunctions. To say God AND Father, was to use the terms as synonymns. And thus we have the term God and Father used as synonyms. The question then must be asked is the indicative of how we are to think of God today, as the Father and only the Father? If so, then this example would be the normative usage of the New Testament and we would not see any usage that would pose any other interpretations. The problem is that this is not normative and we do see other usage. So, I grant you that Jesus identifies the Father as God.
3. Evidence from Jesus

Jesus identifies His disciples as His brethren after His death, and identifies their common Father as God.

Jesus said to her, “Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, ‘I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.’” (John 20:17)​
But I don't grant your next statement:
Jesus also identified the Father as the only true God.

And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. (John 17:3)​

Notice that John says that life is from the only true God AND Jesus Christ. In other words, if one thinks like a Hebrew, the only true God is actually being identified by John (supposedly quoting Jesus' own words) as Jesus himself.

Grenville, you speak of others making assumptions. No doubt we do. But you fail to realize your own. They begin with the answer you are searching for and you discount everything that speaks against that answer to all that is left is that which you think confirms your view. The problem is that some of the very passages that you think speak against Jesus being God actually speak to the fact that he is.
 
Grace Seeker said:
You just proved my point. If it is him being modest about his own goodness, then it is NOT him saying that he is not good. Since only God can be good, then it is also NOT him saying that he is not God.

I cannot follow your rationale at all. Saying that you're not good isn't being modest about your own goodness? What is it then? And you still haven't answered the question.
 
And you still haven't answered the question.
But I have:

post #95, this thread

http://www.islamicboard.com/comparative-religion/134269503-christian-trinity-muslims-tauwheed-monotheism-same-god-clarification-8.html#post996911 said:
post #112, Re: Christian Trinity and Muslim's Tauwheed [monotheism] = Same God? A Clarification[/url]

post #29, Re: The Issue : The nature of Christ: Was He the same substance as God or was He created?


You may not like, understand, nor accept my answer; but I have answered it.
 
Dear Grace Seeker:

I realize that you typically do not respond to the principal issues that I raise. I do not believe that you are intentionally doing this, for you are quite active in this forum and it would be challenging for a normal person to keep track of all of the various conversations. Please follow me here.

Post 160 – I returned after 4 weeks of reviewing the book which you recommended, and confirmed my earlier position.

Post 161 – You provided evidence to show that Jesus was God.

Post 164 – I tested the assumptions upon which you based your interpretations and showed where they failed.

Post 167 – You ignored all of the evidence in my post 164, and noted that I had assumed that God and the Father were synonyms.

Post 168 – I tested my assumption and it was found to be reasonable, given the evidence.

Post 171 – You queried the results, and the principal post 164 appears to have been forgotten.

The principal issue is post 164, which was simply ignored (inadvertently I believe). Let us not get diverted by ancillary issues and neglect the main issues.

Regards,
Grenville
 
Grace Seeker, before I look at those links, do either of them answer the specific question that I asked: how is saying that you are not good a sign of not being modest rather than a sign of being modest? Not to mention that you didn't answer the original question either: If you had asked someone what it takes to be good and they said, "Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone," would you think they were saying, "I am not good," or, "I am God"? I will not indulge your non-answers for much longer. I've been getting enough of that from the Christian apologists on the Understanding Islam board lately and there's only so much I can take.
 
I do not believe that the Bible teaches that Jesus is God. However, there are a group of Christians, called Trinitarians, who believe otherwise.

A group of Christians? Sounds like the Trinity is a doctrine held by the minority. The fact is faith in Christ's Divinity goes back to the Apostles and there certainly are numerous verses revealing Jesus' Divinity. The question I have is to the original poster, who do they believe Jesus to be?

Peace,
Sojourn
 
Is there a verse that unequivocally says loud and clear:
"I am Jesus, I am God, worship me" ?
 
Hi Sojourn:

A group of Christians? Sounds like the Trinity is a doctrine held by the minority.
The trinity is a doctrine held by the majority of Christians. The principal reason for this is that the majority of Christians have not examined the evidence that conflicts with this ‘doctrine’.

The fact is faith in Christ's Divinity goes back to the Apostles and there certainly are numerous verses revealing Jesus' Divinity.
Please provide one explicit verse that supports the teaching that Jesus is God. Please note that the Apostle’s creed, which was supposedly recited by the Apostles, contains no evidence that Jesus is God.

The question I have is to the original poster, who do they believe Jesus to be?
I believe that Jesus is exactly as He is explicitly described to be in the Bible.

And truly Jesus did many other signs in the presence of His disciples, which are not written in this book; but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name. (John 20:30-31)​

Regards,
Grenville
 
Hi Sojourn:

Hi Grenville,

You said:

The trinity is a doctrine held by the majority of Christians. The principal reason for this is that the majority of Christians have not examined the evidence that conflicts with this ‘doctrine’.

So if we only bothered to look and think we'd all believe as you do, eh? I guess that doesn't say much for us Christians, does it? But I think you're wrong. Many a brilliant mind has supported this Divine Doctrine, and had it not been True it would have dissapeared into the annals of history. The fact is my mind can more easily grasp an Arian concept of Christ as some sort of lesser diety, than the Three Persons being one in Being. But this is a case where what is easier to understand is wrong because it leads to what we know to be false, polytheism. The Trinity is true despite its mysterious character, and God has willed it to be held by the majority because He defends the Truth.

Please provide one explicit verse that supports the teaching that Jesus is God. Please note that the Apostle’s creed, which was supposedly recited by the Apostles, contains no evidence that Jesus is God.

There are numerous verses, but let us consider one from the Old Testament. This particular verse was considered a Messianic prophecy:

"For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given,
and the government will be on his shoulders.
And he will be called
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace."

Isaiah 9:6

In case you're wondering, the title is translated from El-Gibbor. I believe Jesus fulfilled this verse.

I believe that Jesus is exactly as He is explicitly described to be in the Bible.

Yes, of course you do, as do all who believe all sorts of things about Christ. Take the title, "Son of God," for example. To some it's just a metaphor for a good and holy man, to others it goes deeper, meaning that the nature of Christ is something like the Father's, and to others, it means the Son proceeds from the Father, and therefore bears his exact nature. Where do you fit?


Peace,
Sojourn
 

Similar Threads

Back
Top