Stumbling block: evolution, Adam and Eve, age of earth

[Ramadhan]

I just think that if the Quran is going to state certain propositions about life, the world, birth, mankind, eternity, etc., I expect to find truths that go beyond the view of a group in the desert 1400 years ago. Some of the examples posted have been interesting (like the embryo stages) and I am reading others but was hoping for a bit more. I mean, after all, God is speaking right? Not just someone in the desert thinking he is having a revelation to update the Old Testament. I'm still open-minded about this, don't get me wrong, I'm just looking for more evidence to confirm the Quran. I can't just take it on blind faith. If you want me to just take something on faith then what difference is there between Islam and any other religion that asks me to take something on faith? I've already been in a religion that tells you to believe and quit doubting. That, my friend, is spiritual abuse. Your faith is only as good as what you are putting your trust in, right?

Then you should do something about it, like reading more about science & Islam?
In these forums alone, there have been vast vast discussions about scientific islam & Qur'an.
In the creation of the universe itself, the big bang and how the universe is expanding.
They are mentioned in the qur'an, if you want read.

 

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you rabimansur;

Your faith is only as good as what you are putting your trust in, right?

God is just, merciful, forgiving, loving, kind, all good things come from God.

It is all very well to believe in God, but to have a faith and trust in God you have to do something. If your actions reflect the qualities of God of being just, merciful, forgiving, loving and kind, then how can you go wrong?

and the same God hears all our prayers despite all our differences.

In the spirit of searching for God

Eric

 

[AntiKarateKid]

I just think that if the Quran is going to state certain propositions about life, the world, birth, mankind, eternity, etc., I expect to find truths that go beyond the view of a group in the desert 1400 years ago. Some of the examples posted have been interesting (like the embryo stages) and I am reading others but was hoping for a bit more. I mean, after all, God is speaking right? Not just someone in the desert thinking he is having a revelation to update the Old Testament. I'm still open-minded about this, don't get me wrong, I'm just looking for more evidence to confirm the Quran. I can't just take it on blind faith. If you want me to just take something on faith then what difference is there between Islam and any other religion that asks me to take something on faith? I've already been in a religion that tells you to believe and quit doubting. That, my friend, is spiritual abuse. Your faith is only as good as what you are putting your trust in, right?

My faith has an uncorrupted scripture, a literary style unmatched for 1400 years, a message which does away with the frivolous additions of men and is not shrouded by ambiguity and historical inaccuracy.

My faith will not die even if you were to burn every Quran in existence. The Ummah would write it anew.

My faith is nothing like the others.

 

[Woodrow]

My faith has an uncorrupted scripture, a literary style unmatched for 1400 years, a message which does away with the frivolous additions of men and is not shrouded by ambiguity and historical inaccuracy.

My faith will not die even if you were to burn every Quran in existence. The Ummah would write it anew.

My faith is nothing like the others.

I never thought of it in that light. You are correct. Islam does not depend on written scripture. If written Arabic were to disappear from the earth the very same Qur'an would still be recited as if nothing ever happened.

 

[Chuck]

by the way judging from the thread title alone.. I'd like to know what your beef is with Adam and Eve? did science establish evidence that the origin of life is something else?
to deny that there was an Adam and Eve, is to deny your own existence, and set yourself back to a black zone where you'll have to account for all that is in the cosmos in a lucid scientific fashion!

all the best

Ramadan Mubarak sister!

Speaking of Adam and Eve, this is interesting video : http://video.msn.com/?mkt=en-us&vid...93533&from=MSNHP&tab=m1189615355930&gt1=42007

I'm not saying those are adam and eve, but it was Azy or somebody else, I don't remember exactly who was arguing that humans with so many differences (races) can't come from single parents.

 

[Muezzin]

Guys, please discuss the topic rather than personally insulting each other/other ad hominem attacks. The people concerned are intelligent enough folk to know what I mean. I've edited and deleted certain posts accordingly.

 

[Rabi Mansur]

Well I guess my Adam and Eve problem is reflected in the video that was posted. That puts Adam in Africa about 60,000 years ago and Eve about 120,000 years ago or so. Doesn't really agree with the Quran explanation of Adam and Eve where God makes Adam out of the dirt and then forms Eve out of Adam does it?

Ramadan Mubarak sister!

Speaking of Adam and Eve, this is interesting video : http://video.msn.com/?mkt=en-us&vid...93533&from=MSNHP&tab=m1189615355930&gt1=42007

I'm not saying those are adam and eve, but it was Azy or somebody else, I don't remember exactly who was arguing that humans with so many differences (races) can't come from single parents.

 

[جوري]

We actually don't know how far back Adam and Eve lived, there is no time line for them..The whole Earth of 6000 years ago is a christian concept not an Islamic one.. surely you can't unearth two fossils and allege that they belonged to Adam and Eve... what sort of logic is that or lack thereof?

to begin with, it is very hard for remains to be fossilized.. there have to be right conditions for that to occur..
if you'd like to read on the process of how 'natural fossilization' occurs you may google.. but frankly your last conclusion/query shouldn't have even made it to the form of a question.. at least it isn't a question I expected from a rational adult!

all the best

 

[Rabi Mansur]

Sister I didn't say anything about fossils. I was just commenting on the National Geographic video that discussed DNA sequencing. It didn't even mention fossils. Maybe you didn't watch the video. I'm not sure why you feel that you need to make it personal and say I'm not a "rational adult."

I'm just here trying to learn.

BTW what is "the Rictus of Revenge"?

 

[جوري]

Sister I didn't say anything about fossils. I was just commenting on the National Geographic video that discussed DNA sequencing. It didn't even mention fossils. Maybe you didn't watch the video. I'm not sure why you feel that you need to make it personal and say I'm not a "rational adult."

I'm just here trying to learn.

BTW what is "the Rictus of Revenge"?

Greetings,

I didn't watch the videos, I went by this comment:

That puts Adam in Africa about 60,000 years ago and Eve about 120,000 years ago or so

did you have another meaning for the comment other than what we inferred? I am not making it personal at all. I am merely questioning logic.. surely one can do that, without it being misconstrued as a 'personal attack'?

all the best

 

[Azy]

to deny that there was an Adam and Eve, is to deny your own existence, and set yourself back to a black zone where you'll have to account for all that is in the cosmos in a lucid scientific fashion!

So if we don't just accept that 'God did it', we have to try find out what happened. How horrific.

That puts Adam in Africa about 60,000 years ago and Eve about 120,000 years ago or so.

Presumably they don't actually think that these are directly equivalent to the 'Adam & Eve' of Abrahamic faith, mitochondrial Eve must have had a male partner after all. These are just the oldest discernable common ancestors of each sex of all currently living human beings.

 

[Chuck]

Well I guess my Adam and Eve problem is reflected in the video that was posted. That puts Adam in Africa about 60,000 years ago and Eve about 120,000 years ago or so. Doesn't really agree with the Quran explanation of Adam and Eve where God makes Adam out of the dirt and then forms Eve out of Adam does it?

I didn't say those were Adam and Eve in the video, read my post again. But it puts to rest the idea that humans couldn't have came from single parents with so many differences in all over the world which went on in the other thread.

 

[جوري]

So if we don't just accept that 'God did it', we have to try find out what happened. How horrific.

I think you should indeed go do that.. I think it would serve you better than feigning knowledge that you have no understanding or mastery of!

Presumably they don't actually think that these are directly equivalent to the 'Adam & Eve' of Abrahamic faith, mitochondrial Eve must have had a male partner after all. These are just the oldest discernable common ancestors of each sex of all currently living human beings.

the oldest discernible might not be the oldest discernible a thousand years down the line!
There is no time limit or table as far as I am concerned!

 

[جوري]

I didn't say those were Adam and Eve in the video, read my post again. But it puts to rest the idea that humans couldn't have came from single parents with so many differences in all over the world which went on in the other thread.

I just noticed your other post.. thanks for the vid. I'll get around to it insha'Allah

 

[UmmSqueakster]

Excuse me for not reading the entire thread. I'm not one to delve too deeply into scientific matters, but I do believe in theistic evolution, ie Allah (swt) created the earth and animals, and then directed their evolution over time. Adam (as) and Eve (ra) were those first human beings who were given a divine spark of a soul, making them the father and mother of mankind.

 

[Rabi Mansur]

Originally Posted by Chuck

I didn't say those were Adam and Eve in the video, read my post again. But it puts to rest the idea that humans couldn't have came from single parents with so many differences in all over the world which went on in the other thread.

I agree that humans could come from single parents. I was just pointing out that the video puts scientific Adam at 60,000 years ago and scientific Eve at 150,000 years ago. That still presents a huge problem IMO for Adam and Eve to be a couple.

 

[Chuck]

That still presents a huge problem IMO for Adam and Eve to be a couple.

Only if you believe those two in the video were Adam and Eve. Real Adam could have been 300,000 year old or more.

 

[Rabi Mansur]

That still presents a huge problem IMO for Adam and Eve to be a couple.

Only if you believe those two in the video were Adam and Eve. Real Adam could have been 300,000 year old or more.
__________________

Yes I guess that is one way to look at it.

 

[Muezzin]

Sigh.

Guys, please discuss the topic rather than personally insulting each other/other ad hominem attacks. The people concerned are intelligent enough folk to know what I mean. I've edited and deleted certain posts accordingly.

Don't make me hand out infractions in Ramadhan, please.

 

[Muhaba]

you might want to check out the site http://www.islam-guide.com . It's got some scientific miracles of the Quraan. I particularly like the one about thunder.