Why I despise secular and liberal demoracy

[Amadeus85]

Another act of our cultural huns from Brussels -

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2009/11/04/cross-ban-in-italy-schools-115875-21796199/

Another proof that we, europeans, are our own biggest enemies, biggest threat to our own religion and culture and society. Not muslims, not chinese, not black or brown, but we white european born people obsessed with nihlism and self destruction.

 

[KAding]

Another act of our cultural huns from Brussels -

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2009/11/04/cross-ban-in-italy-schools-115875-21796199/

Another proof that we, europeans, are our own biggest enemies, biggest threat to our own religion and culture and society. Not muslims, not chinese, not black or brown, but we white european born people obsessed with nihlism and self destruction.

Your religion. Not 'our religion'. It is not mine.

Though there certainly is a place for it in society.

 

[JaffaCake]

Racism and xenophobia are something new, born in enlightmen, from Darwin's work.

O rly?

 

[ardianto]

Another act of our cultural huns from Brussels -

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2009/11/04/cross-ban-in-italy-schools-115875-21796199/

Another proof that we, europeans, are our own biggest enemies, biggest threat to our own religion and culture and society. Not muslims, not chinese, not black or brown, but we white european born people obsessed with nihlism and self destruction.

When I was in UNI I got typhus and must stayed in a Catholic hospital for 21 days. I stayed alone in a room, and there was a cross in this room. But I never thought this cross violated me. Even I salaat and recited Qur'an in the front of this cross. Maybe for some people salaat and recite Qur'an in front of a cross is strange, but I don't see anything wrong with this. Also, this Catholic hospital didn't see anything wrong if I salaat and recite Qur'an in this room because we knew what is religious tolerance, what is freedom of religion.

And the news in this link is really makes me shocked. A woman complained, showing a crucifix violated her children's freedom of religion. I guess this woman is not Christian, not Muslim, not Jew, not Buddhist, not Hindu and not other believer. And I really want to ask her, "Freedom OF religion or Freedom FROM religion ?".

 

[Supreme]

Actually the offending book is a true story about real penguins in the New York zoo, but why let the facts get in the way of mindless homophobia, eh? I'm glad to say that sales of this no doubt fascinating book have soared as a consequence of attempts to ban it.

The thing about secular and liberal democracy is that it, theoretically, allows all people to express their views.. even those as unpleasant and bigoted as yours.

If it wasn't for this post, I would've given up on this thread. Luckily, there's someone with common sense and decency here.

To say the least, I'm disgusted. Not only with the lack of knowledge of homosexuality, but the fact we are still debating whether or not who two consenting adults choose to have sex with is anyone's business but theirs. Let God judge and decide. And the fact people are blaming democracy. Hey, it ain't perfect people, but it's the least evil form of government there is. Hence, why so many non-democratic countries choose to call themselves democratic.

 

[Sampharo]

Actually the offending book is a true story about real penguins in the New York zoo, but why let the facts get in the way of mindless homophobia, eh? I'm glad to say that sales of this no doubt fascinating book have soared as a consequence of attempts to ban it.

You know what else do REAL animals and other living things do? Praying mantis female cuts off the head of her copulating male just because he shouldn't fertilize another, and the male actually knows it and accepts his fate. Osprey birds are known to invade their neighbor nests, kill their eggs and put their own instead. dogs regularly jump the females without permission or courting and have a specially shaped male organ that makes it practically impossible to get out. and cats leave their young to starve to death if they sense they are deformed or retarded. Are those "natural" things too should be adopted by humans? Leave kids with down's syndrome to starve to death? Men pounce on women in elevators and raping them? Kill babies in strollers when their mothers aren't looking and put our own so that they feed them and pay for their university? or "two consenting adults" can get in a bedroom and the woman should be allowed to behead the male "since he consented"?

Also, political correctness garbage aimed at twisting facts should be highlighted for what it is on this forum: Homophobia is a misnomer, because phobia actually means "Irrational Fear of something normal", not what homosexuals are trying to use it for in daily language to replace "Rational disgust and rejection of something abnormal".

The thing about secular and liberal democracy is that it, theoretically, allows all people to express their views.. even those as unpleasant and bigoted as yours.

Interesting that the same democratic secular government that allowed those degenerates to bring their "beliefs of homosexual tolerance" into children classrooms, is banning crosses and other religious symbols under the same banner of tolerance.

If it wasn't for this post, I would've given up on this thread. Luckily, there's someone with common sense and decency here.

Interesting to come from a "Liberal Protestant". If that is your opinion, then what is your view regarding this:

Lev 20:13 "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death."

Rom 1:26-27 "For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error."

Tim 1:9-10 "realizing the fact that (civil) law is not made for a righteous man, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers"

Lev 18:22-23 "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination."

So? Since you believe that supporting homosexuality and promoting it openly even to children is "common sense and decency", I guess then you regard the above quotes to be nonsense and indecent.

Strange isn't it? how some like to speak, but not even think about what they say.

 

[Uthman]

Hey, it ain't perfect people, but it's the least evil form of government there is.

I've posted some of these somewhere before, but I can't help but share these quotations about democracy just for the fun of it:

Democracy forever teases us with the contrast between its ideals and its realities, between its heroic possibilities and its sorry achievements. ~ Agnes Repplier

A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine. ~ Thomas Jefferson

Democracy is the recurrent suspicion that more than half of the people are right more than half of the time. ~ E.B. White

The two greatest obstacles to democracy in the United States are, first, the widespread delusion among the poor that we have a democracy, and second, the chronic terror among the rich, lest we get it. ~ Edward Dowling
​

I've been deliberately selective here of course.

 

[aamirsaab]

If it wasn't for this post, I would've given up on this thread. Luckily, there's someone with common sense and decency here.

To say the least, I'm disgusted. Not only with the lack of knowledge of homosexuality, but the fact we are still debating whether or not who two consenting adults choose to have sex with is anyone's business but theirs. Let God judge and decide. And the fact people are blaming democracy. Hey, it ain't perfect people, but it's the least evil form of government there is. Hence, why so many non-democratic countries choose to call themselves democratic.

Hold on a minute...you earlier said that consent didn't make the action ok (you actually mocked it) in relation to child marriage, calling it peadohilia.

By that same token, homosexuality should be equally disgusting - yet you have said it is fine (ergo double standard). You can't on one hand say ''consent has been given, so why are you complaining'', yet complain when consent has been given on another occasion.

 

[glo]

^
I seem to remember that last time this thread derailed into a comparison between homosexuality and pedophilia, it received a thorough clean-up from the mods ...

 

[aamirsaab]

^
I seem to remember that last time this thread derailed into a comparison between homosexuality and pedophilia, it received a thorough clean-up from the mods ...

Good point.

Note to everyone (including myself): let's try and get back on topic.

 

[Amadeus85]

To say the least, I'm disgusted. Not only with the lack of knowledge of homosexuality, but the fact we are still debating whether or not who two consenting adults choose to have sex with is anyone's business but theirs. Let God judge and decide. And the fact people are blaming democracy. Hey, it ain't perfect people, but it's the least evil form of government there is. Hence, why so many non-democratic countries choose to call themselves democratic.

Interesting to hear from a christian, especially since God of jews, muslims and christians condemn act of sodomy and those who do it are sinners. God already judged and decided, read the holy books. Or maybe You are from this church?

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1141/is_17_45/ai_n32098809/

 

[Amadeus85]

Few years ago in UK police revealed some facts about peadophiles. It turned out that from 23% to 43 % of the perpetrators were gays. If we remind that gays make just 1 to 2 % of the society this is a warning info. Lynette Burrows, the brittish specialist of raising children, said that homosexual lobby doesnt allow such informations to be spread. Burrows says that when she speaks in BBC, the television doesnt allow her to reveal such informations.

Gay activists have troubles in Scotland.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article6895388.ece

 

[Amadeus85]

Example of "western liberal" freedom - Woman who questioned the rightness of children adoption to gays has been quiezzed by police.

http://www.christian.org.uk/rel_liberties/cases/burrows.htm

Welcome to Sodoma and Gomorra .

 

[Sampharo]

Few years ago in UK police revealed some facts about peadophiles. It turned out that from 23% to 43 % of the perpetrators were gays. If we remind that gays make just 1 to 2 % of the society this is a warning info. Lynette Burrows, the brittish specialist of raising children, said that homosexual lobby doesnt allow such informations to be spread. Burrows says that when she speaks in BBC, the television doesnt allow her to reveal such informations.

Wouldn't at all surprise me. Both are acts of sexual deviance and it's natural to come from the same source, and to enact both require the same lack of self-control or moral prohibition. I would bet you that 23 to 43% would jump to a much higher percentage in an area where pedophilia was somehow not illegal.

 

[Trumble]

You can't on one hand say ''consent has been given, so why are you complaining'', yet complain when consent has been given on another occasion.

The distinction is that in one instance both participants are judged capable of giving informed consent to the sexual activity concerned while in the other one is not. There is no 'double standard'.

 

[KAding]

I've posted some of these somewhere before, but I can't help but share these quotations about democracy just for the fun of it:
Democracy forever teases us with the contrast between its ideals and its realities, between its heroic possibilities and its sorry achievements. ~ Agnes Repplier

That is true for all forms of government of course. Realities never are as nice as the ideals. I do not believe this contrast is any bigger for democracy than it is for any other system. In fact, in my opinion the opposite is true, since Liberal Democracy is designed exactly to prevent accumulation of power with one person or even one institution. In developed democracies 95+% of the people also appear to support maintaining the democratic system of government, despite all its flaws and despite all the grumbling about 'politicians'. That is a better result than in any other developed system of government IMHO.

A democracy is nothinq more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine. ~ Thomas Jefferson

Democracy is the recurrent suspicion that more than half of the people are right more than half of the time. ~ E.B. White

I'm not certain the Thomas Jefferson quote is real.

But nevertheless, you need to keep in mind that the United States - like virtually all 'democracies' - is not 'democratic' in the pure sense of the world. They are constitutional democracies, where 51% 'mob rule' is not supposed to be able to threaten fundamental liberties, since these are enshrined in the constitution. One of the pillars of the liberal democratic system is exactly to prevent "tyranny of the majority", that is why we have constitutions and an independent judiciary!

The two greatest obstacles to democracy in the United States are, first, the widespread delusion among the poor that we have a democracy, and second, the chronic terror among the rich, lest we get it. ~ Edward Dowling

Not sure what that last quote is about. The rich have more influence than the poor, yes. The rich also pay overwhelmingly more taxes. Not sure what can be done about that.

On the other hand, redistribution of money from rich to poor is already happening through the welfare system. That was not true when Edward Dowling made that quote.

 

[Supreme]

Interesting to come from a "Liberal Protestant".

So? Since you believe that supporting homosexuality and promoting it openly even to children is "common sense and decency", I guess then you regard the above quotes to be nonsense and indecent.

Strange isn't it? how some like to speak, but not even think about what they say.

I understand the position of the Scriptures when it comes to such matters; however Jesus never emphasized the wrongs of homosexuality, thus it is not in direct violation of the teachings of Jesus. I'm a liberal Protestant- the liberal bit meaning I believe anyone can be a Christian, regardless of race, gender, nationality, background or sexuality. Another important liberal stance is the fact that, whilst as close to the truth as we can get, the Bible is not inerrant and cannot be interpreted literally for some parts.
I don't support the stance of promoting homosexuality any more that I do promoting the stance of heterosexuality, especially to a bunch of young children.

 

[Supreme]

Hold on a minute...you earlier said that consent didn't make the action ok (you actually mocked it) in relation to child marriage, calling it peadohilia.

By that same token, homosexuality should be equally disgusting - yet you have said it is fine (ergo double standard). You can't on one hand say ''consent has been given, so why are you complaining'', yet complain when consent has been given on another occasion.

And for our next silly comparison, we list the similarities between Adolf Hitler and Barack Obama!

Wouldn't at all surprise me. Both are acts of sexual deviance and it's natural to come from the same source, and to enact both require the same lack of self-control or moral prohibition. I would bet you that 23 to 43% would jump to a much higher percentage in an area where pedophilia was somehow not illegal.

Then again, the majority of peadophiles are heterosexual... What a silly statistic to bring up...

 

[Sampharo]

Then again, the majority of peadophiles are heterosexual... What a silly statistic to bring up...

Maybe you're trying hard to be stupid or just are, or maybe you just have a severe allergy to indicative statistics that smash the little card teepees you call arguments and posts:

Only 5% of British are gay, so when they are responsible for almost half (43%) of a crime, and 95% of them are responsible for the other 57%, it requires a severely desperate and twisted person to not acknowledge that it is a startling statistic so mathematically unambiguous that by any quantifiable research standard homosexuality is officially declared a direct contributing factor to pedophilia.

I understand the position of the Scriptures when it comes to such matters; however Jesus never emphasized the wrongs of homosexuality, thus it is not in direct violation of the teachings of Jesus.

Never heard something so outrageous and desperate, it is not even worthy of a response. Perhaps though a proper christian on the board may still like to address your bizarre statements.

 

[Supreme]

Maybe you're trying hard to be stupid or just are, or maybe you just have a severe allergy to indicative statistics that smash the little card teepees you call arguments and posts:

Only 5% of British are gay, so when they are responsible for almost half (43%) of a crime, and 95% of them are responsible for the other 57%, it requires a severely desperate and twisted person to not acknowledge that it is a startling statistic so mathematically unambiguous that by any quantifiable research standard homosexuality is officially declared a direct contributing factor to pedophilia.

Let's use another example: 3% of Brits are Muslims. However, around 80% of terrorists in Britain are Muslims. Only 3% of Brits are Muslim, so when they are responsible for 80% of all terrorist plots, it requires a severely desperate and twisted mind to not acknowledge that it is a startling statistic so mathematically unambiguous that by any quantifiable research standard Islam is directly declared a direct contiributing factor to terrorism. Do agree with that statement? Because that's essentially your own logic.

Never heard something so outrageous and desperate, it is not even worthy of a response. Perhaps though a proper christian on the board may still like to address your bizarre statements.

I am a 'proper Christian', in the way I do not judge people on the grounds of sexuality as Jesus commanded me not to. Whatever happened to 'Judge lest ye be judged'. I'm a liberal, it may conflict with your conservative views, but please don't ever, ever try and patronise me by claiming I'm no Christian, OK? Thanks.