Gandhi's view on Isral Palestine issue

[zakirs]

Salaam all,

been busy due to exams and stuff i read a nice quote and wanted to share.


Back in 1938 M.K Gandhi was asked about the Israel issue .. Here is what he said

Several letters have been received by me asking me to declare my views about the Arab-Jew question in Palestine and persecution of the Jews in Germany. It is not without hesitation that I venture to offer my views on this very difficult question. My sympathies are all with the Jews. I have known them intimately in South Africa. Some of them became life-long companions. Through these friends I came to learn much of their age-long persecution. They have been the untouchables of Christianity [...] But my sympathy does not blind me to the requirements of justice. The cry for the national home for the Jews does not make much appeal to me. The sanction for it is sought in the Bible and the tenacity with which the Jews have hankered after return to Palestine. Why should they not, like other peoples of the earth, make that country their home where they are born and where they earn their livelihood? Palestine belongs to the Arabs in the same sense that England belongs to the English or France to the French. It is wrong and inhuman to impose the Jews on the Arabs. What is going on in Palestine today cannot be justified by any moral code of conduct.


Oh btw i am referring to Gandhi of indian freedom times .

 

[OurIslamic]

Do you have a reliable source for this?

 

[mkh4JC]

The Jews only have one country, one place to call home, and even that is ridiculed and denounced by entities like the UN. Muslims have countless countries. Why is it so wrong for them to have a place of their own?

Admittedly, I haven't done much research on this issue, mainly because I trust in the Lord, and I know that when he comes he will sort everything out. But from my understanding the land was purchased legally, or through wars. You don't see anyone claiming that the U.S. governement for instance should give the U.S. back to the American Indians, or that we should give Texas back to Mexico. You only see this with Israel and the Jews. Why is that?

 

[mahi]

By Mahatma Ghandi
November 20, 1938

My sympathies are all with the Jews. I have known them intimately in South Africa. Some of them became life-long companions. Through these friends I came to learn much of their age-long persecution. They have been the untouchables of Christianity. The parallel between their treatment by Christians and the treatment of untouchables by Hindus is very close. Religious sanction has been invoked in both cases for the justification of the inhuman treatment meted out to them. Apart from the friendships, therefore, there is the more common universal reason for my sympathy for the Jews.

But my sympathy does not blind me to the requirements of justice. The cry for the national home for the Jews does not make much appeal to me. The sanction for it is sought in the Bible and the tenacity with which the Jews have hankered after return to Palestine. Why should they not, like other peoples of the earth, make that country their home where they are born and where they earn their livelihood?

Palestine belongs to the Arabs in the same sense that England belongs to the English or France to the French. It is wrong and in-human to impose the Jews on the Arabs. What is going on in Palestine today cannot be justified by any moral code of conduct. The mandates have no sanction but that of the last war. Surely it would be a crime against humanity to reduce the proud Arabs so that Palestine can be restored to the Jews partly or wholly as their national home.

The nobler course would be to insist on a just treatment of the Jews wherever they are born and bred. The Jews born in France are French in precisely the same sense that Christians born in France are French. If the Jews have no home but Palestine, will they relish the idea of being forced to leave the other parts of the world in which they are settled? Or do they want a double home where they can remain at will? This cry for the national home affords a colourable justification for the German expulsion of the Jews.

I am not defending the Arab excesses. I wish they had chosen the way of non-violence in resisting what they rightly regarded as an unwarrantable encroachment upon their country. But according to the accepted canons of right and wrong, nothing can be said against the Arab resistance in the face of overwhelming odds.

Let the Jews who claim to be the chosen race prove their title by choosing the way of non-violence for vindicating their position on earth. Every country is their home including Palestine not by aggression but by loving service. A Jewish friend has sent me a book called The Jewish Contribution to Civilization by Cecil Roth. It gives a record of what the Jews have done to enrich the world؟s literature, art, music, drama, science, medicine, agriculture, etc. Given the will, the Jew can refuse to be treated as the outcaste of the West, to be despised or patronized. He can command the attention and respect of the world by being man, the chosen creation of God, instead of being man who is fast sinking to the brute and forsaken by God. They can add to their many contributions the surpassing contribution of non-violent action.

SEGAON, November 20, 1938
Harijan, 26-11-1938
(Vol. 74, pp. 239-242)

-------------------------------------------------------------
I've read it before, and I'm pretty sure its authentic.

 

[mahi]

The Jews only have one country, one place to call home, and even that is ridiculed and denounced by entities like the UN. Muslims have countless countries. Why is it so wrong for them to have a place of their own?

Admittedly, I haven't done much research on this issue, mainly because I trust in the Lord, and I know that when he comes he will sort everything out. But from my understanding the land was purchased legally, or through wars. You don't see anyone claiming that the U.S. governement for instance should give the U.S. back to the American Indians, or that we should give Texas back to Mexico. You only see this with Israel and the Jews. Why is that?

I don't agree with Ghandi that England is for the English, and that sort of stuff, but I do agree that nobody should kick others off land to fill their desire for land based on some racial right. I agree that what's wrong with the land they were born and bred on? Of course that comes on the back of the holocaust, so would not be as easy to say then.

The problem is that in 1948, 700,000+ Palestinians/Arabs (taken from wikipedia) were forced out of their homes by Jewish forces so that Israel could be made. While I'll go with what people say that land was bought, i think its easy to say that with that figure that vast majority was just taken. So you can see where the problem stems from. Why couldn't they find some massive vacated Island? The problem is that they took that land. I can't recall what role the British and that played but they basically enforced it. And ever since, you have Israel who were formed by expelling others, now fighting with neighbours and currently kicking other people (ie the house demolitions) and setting up illegal settlements and further taking the land of Palestinians.

The UN acknowledges Israel I believe (even given the circumstances Israel was formed), but condemns the illegal settlements (of which are many, many, many, which come at the expense of Palestinian homes and land).

I'm fine with Israel keeping what they got from before, its too long now to tell them to give up Palestine. But all these Settlements, building walls, and attacking others with probably hundred times less military capacity which is the problem.

Obviously I haven't included stuff like the rockets that hit Israel, and therefor I have purposdley written mainly on one side to show you why, and hopefully you can see opposition to what Israel has done and is doing. Too many people are blind to the settlements. Just recently Israel agreed to build another 900 homes on land which they'll demolish Palestinian homes in Jerusaelem alone, which doesn't count all those other places. And then you have stuff like the wars, like in December/January but that's another story.

 

[GuestFellow]

The Jews only have one country, one place to call home, and even that is ridiculed and denounced by entities like the UN. Muslims have countless countries. Why is it so wrong for them to have a place of their own?

Does not matter, there are many Muslim countries. There are many secular countries in Europe, does not mean I can take whatever country I like and kick people out of their homes and systematically kill the civilians. The Jews lived in Palestine peacefully. There was no need for war.

 

[Woodrow]

The Jews only have one country, one place to call home, and even that is ridiculed and denounced by entities like the UN. Muslims have countless countries. Why is it so wrong for them to have a place of their own?

Admittedly, I haven't done much research on this issue, mainly because I trust in the Lord, and I know that when he comes he will sort everything out. But from my understanding the land was purchased legally, or through wars. You don't see anyone claiming that the U.S. governement for instance should give the U.S. back to the American Indians, or that we should give Texas back to Mexico. You only see this with Israel and the Jews. Why is that?

Not just the Jews. Here is a movement I personally back, although I want it to be done peacefully.

Lakota Sioux "nation" to withdraw from US

SOURCE:http://www.qando.net/details.aspx?Entry=7466

or

The FBI's War On Native Americans

SOURCE: http://www.yvwiiusdinvnohii.net/special/aim-fbi.htm

Now why don't Native American's have full right to their land. They have a much grater right than the native Europeans had to claiming land in Palestine. Israel exists because it had the backings of Zionists and the Europeans and Americans did not want the Jews in their lands. to be honest I believe the founding (stealing) of Israel was an act of extreme prejudice by Americans and Europeans to get the unwanted Jews out. A more peaceful means than what Hitler did, but for the same reason, to get rid of the Jews. Zionism was a method to make it look like it was not a racism act, Zionists saw it as a way to "fulfilling Biblical Prophecy".

The Palestinians are being treated even worse than our Native Americans, but there is no uproar about Palestinian Rights. Even Palestinian Jews have suffered under Zionistic Israel.

 

[mkh4JC]

Does not matter, there are many Muslim countries. There are many secular countries in Europe, does not mean I can take whatever country I like and kick people out of their homes and systematically kill the civilians. The Jews lived in Palestine peacefully. There was no need for war.

I was talking about the Six Day War where I believe the Jews were sneak attacked, and how they came to acquire land. As I said, this is an area of my belief as a Christian that I haven't studied, mainly because I'm still a babe, though I'm getting there. Of course, everything that the Jews do is not right, they are fallible human beings, just like all of us. But I do believe and recognize Israel's right to exist.

 

[OurIslamic]

The Jews only have one country, one place to call home, and even that is ridiculed and denounced by entities like the UN. Muslims have countless countries. Why is it so wrong for them to have a place of their own?

Admittedly, I haven't done much research on this issue, mainly because I trust in the Lord, and I know that when he comes he will sort everything out. But from my understanding the land was purchased legally, or through wars. You don't see anyone claiming that the U.S. governement for instance should give the U.S. back to the American Indians, or that we should give Texas back to Mexico. You only see this with Israel and the Jews. Why is that?

Sorry for sounding rude, but this comment you have made is VERY ignorant. Maybe you should do more research on this issue, as you said, before commenting on it. The land was not purchased legally. They did not buy the land of the UK. The UN set up areas for Jews and the Palestinians. When the influx of immigrants became too great the British forces tried to limit it because the Jewish population was beginning to displace the inhabitants. Jewish terrorist groups formed to attack British soldiers and also played some part in the displacement and in some cases death of Palestinian communities. In 1948-49 the UN, as usual, failed to carry out it's duty and make sure that both communities were content. After the conflict in those years the Jews formed the Israeli state.

There are Muslim countries because Muslims are the main population of the native inhabitants. Recently, there have not been any Muslims invading countries and attempting to kick out the native inhabitants.:raging:

 

[GuestFellow]

I was talking about the Six Day War where I believe the Jews were sneak attacked, and how they came to acquire land. As I said, this is an area of my belief as a Christian that I haven't studied, mainly because I'm still a babe, though I'm getting there. Of course, everything that the Jews do is not right, they are fallible human beings, just like all of us. But I do believe and recognize Israel's right to exist.

Well one thing we can agree upon is that we want peace. Many innocent civilians were slaughtered due to this conflict from both sides and this conflict caused great instability within the Middle East. The state of Israel is going against the Jewish teachings firstly. There is no need for a Zionist government. Zionism created these problem and goes against the Jewish teachings. Instead of a two state solution why not have one state where both Muslims and Jews can live in peace, where the government in charge can uphold the rights of both Muslims and Jews and represent the views of both sides fairly. Muslims and Jews have lived together very peacefully. I don't see why we need to have two states, it creates divide and hatred among both sides.

 

[The_Prince]

I was talking about the Six Day War where I believe the Jews were sneak attacked, and how they came to acquire land. As I said, this is an area of my belief as a Christian that I haven't studied, mainly because I'm still a babe, though I'm getting there. Of course, everything that the Jews do is not right, they are fallible human beings, just like all of us. But I do believe and recognize Israel's right to exist.

erm no, israel began the 6 day war after they sneak attacked the Arabs!!!!!!!!!!

and just because there are many Muslim countries sure as hell doesnt give you a right to go to a Muslim country with a people who have a culture, identity, and have been living there for ages and just kick them out and steal their land.

should i go to a christian european country, steal their land, kick them out, and then tell them oh well there are many other european christian countries, just go on there even though you werent born there, nor were you raised there, nor is it officially your home country!

israel has no right to exist, stealing peoples land by force and then establishing yourself doesnt mean you have a right to exist, Arabs and Muslims are going to become the majority in Israel soon, and then we will take it back and kick you out of Palestine and we will use your logic, heyyyyy there are many european secular countries, so you european origin secular Jews can just bugger off to those countries.

 

[Humbler_359]

Certainly, I think, this map tells us that Zionists have killed millions of Muslims population from 1947 till today in order to wipe off the Palestine's map.

Pakistan (14 August 1947) and India (15 August 1947) were indepedent HAPPILY and CHEERFULLY from UK, they had legally lands on their owns. India and Pakistan have RIGHTS to defend their lands as well as Europe, America, Russia, and Middle East.
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Israel (14 May 1948) is different, they conquested Arab land to kill them all to replace it illegally. That's what they do. They have no rights at all due to murderous and criminals in the records. It is bit quite sad that extremists jewish no longer accept Muslim Palestines neighbors after many years peaceful.

I have a feeling that Zionist State is going to expand into Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, and Jordan to steal more lands due to growing military machines and more weapons ...

 

[mkh4JC]

erm no, israel began the 6 day war after they sneak attacked the Arabs!!!!!!!!!!

and just because there are many Muslim countries sure as hell doesnt give you a right to go to a Muslim country with a people who have a culture, identity, and have been living there for ages and just kick them out and steal their land.

should i go to a christian european country, steal their land, kick them out, and then tell them oh well there are many other european christian countries, just go on there even though you werent born there, nor were you raised there, nor is it officially your home country!

israel has no right to exist, stealing peoples land by force and then establishing yourself doesnt mean you have a right to exist, Arabs and Muslims are going to become the majority in Israel soon, and then we will take it back and kick you out of Palestine and we will use your logic, heyyyyy there are many european secular countries, so you european origin secular Jews can just bugger off to those countries.

Well, this is what I found:

The international communities hatred for Israel is as white-hot as it is baffling. Israel has never started a war with her neighbors. There is no historical record of Israel ever attempting to provoke conflict with any nation - Israel's responses are historically reactive.

It is as if Mexico sent agents into the US to blow up supermarkets and kill civilians unless America surrenders Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and California - and the UN condemned America. (Come to think of it, that isn't such a far-fetched premise, after all.)

There is NO reason that anyone can logically point to that explains the world's obsession with Israel. Israel came into being the way that the rest of the world's nations did. She was granted territory by Britain by virtue of the Allied conquest of the Ottoman Empire in WWI.

The same Allied authority that created Israel also created the modern states of Iraq, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Iran and drew the borders of the modern Middle East. If Israel's existence is questionable, then it is no more questionable than any other existing Middle Eastern state.

But nobody is questioning the legitimacy of Syria or Lebanon. Only Israel, whose land grant dates to 1917 and therefore actually predates the existence of any other modern Middle Eastern state to be carved out of the Ottoman Empire by the Allies.

As I said, I'm not as well versed in this subject, ie the history of the nation of Israel and how they came about, as I am others concerning my faith. But I do read about it from a Biblical perspective pretty much everyday in order to familarize myself.

 

[titus]

Certainly, I think, this map tells us that Zionists have killed millions of Muslims

No, not millions. While I don't think anyone should downplay the numbers, they certainly shouldn't make them up either.

 

[Woodrow]

One major error I see that was made in the establishment of Israel was the lack of failing to see the difference between the European Jews and the Palestinians regarding land usage. The Jews saw/see it more as residential properties and the Palestinians saw it more as food production. Sadly the best farming land is wha is seen as the best residential land. As the Jewish population spreads it does so at the loss of livelihood for the Palestinians. The Jews are more content with making their livelihood from international commerce, they are traditionally engaged in commerce and not production. The Palestinians are farmers and not that involved in the international market, the land is of much more importance to them as it is not only their home, but also their livelihood. The source of wealth for the Jews is not related to where they live.

The establishment of Israel failed to understand the conflicting needs of both people and if one expands the other suffers. You can not have a fair sharing of the land as the land usage by one is detrimental to the other. Co-esistence can only occur if the the population of one is insignificant in relation to the other. Peace can only be long term if the sharing of the land goes back to the 1946 map. The current distribution favors a large Jewish population with little need for acerage. The agrarian structure of the Palestians requires small population, but large land usage.

All being considered the establishment of Israel was a massive planning error. Made as much sense as it would be to move Texas Ranchers to New York City and allow them to take over enough land to build 20,000 acre Ranches. That would highly upset the people living in Manhattan. Seems like somebody would have recalled the range wars we had in the USA when homesteaders (Sod Busters) moved into the Ranch land. The only comparison I can see is the similarity of the Europeans migrating into the Native American hunting lands or more recently into the Ranch Lands.

Idiotic move doomed to cause one or both people suffering. The Jews should have been given Germany. The Germans lost it fair and square.

 

[mkh4JC]

The Jews should have been given Germany. The Germans lost it fair and square.

I don't think that would have been very practical, as the events of the holocaust would have eliminated that from even being considered, with the German initiated slaughtering of the Jewish people.

 

[Supreme]

The Jews only have one country, one place to call home, and even that is ridiculed and denounced by entities like the UN. Muslims have countless countries. Why is it so wrong for them to have a place of their own?

Admittedly, I haven't done much research on this issue, mainly because I trust in the Lord, and I know that when he comes he will sort everything out. But from my understanding the land was purchased legally, or through wars. You don't see anyone claiming that the U.S. governement for instance should give the U.S. back to the American Indians, or that we should give Texas back to Mexico. You only see this with Israel and the Jews. Why is that?

...Which is why a two state solution is such a good idea. The Jews get their own country, the Christian and Muslims Palestinians get theirs. The Israelis are the main obstacle to such a solution, I believe. Hamas have killed incredibly few Israelis when you compare the number of Palestinians who have died in the hands of the Israelis. I believe the Two State Solution is the only possible situation where both sides win. And I pray to God that one day, when such a solution is in place, Israel and Palestine can treat one another with respect.

 

[mahi]

For some reason, just recently after the first thought I began to dislike the two state solution.

One state makes much more sense. Two states next to each other will give belonging to either side, and even small hostilities can cause attacks.

Where as in a one state solution, if you attack one area, you're also attacking the people you support.

And thus we wont have the situation now, where when Israel is attacked, they attack back with greater force as they couldnt give a **** about the attackers.

 

[titus]

Imagine Pakistan, India and Bangladesh as one nation now. How united and stable do you think their government would be?

 

[- Qatada -]

:salamext:

Let's look at this conflict for a little while to get a basic understanding of what's going on there, and maybe even get a glimpse of what's hardly shown on the news;


1) The Germans committed the Holocaust against the Jewish people around the WW2 era.


2) Due to the holocaust, Palestinians (including Muslims, and Christians) - who were innocent from the crimes of the Germans - were forced to accept the Jews as rulers over their own country.

So know this; The Palestinians didn't mind Jews living amongst them (this was actually the norms for many centuries [7th centuryCE - 20th Century] due to Muslims giving Jews, and even Christians protection - as part of Islamic law.) But to take their land off them by force - for no crime, was injustice wouldn't you agree?


3) The Jews started to rule a great part of Palestine, and this has continued to happen since 1948 (when Palestine 'officially became known as Israel). With the USA giving billions of dollars to support such a state, and continue to do so. Why did they have right to such a state? They argue that their forefathers ruled over it 2000 years ago. Now you tell me, does anyone have a right to steal your home from an innocent people because their forefathers ruled over it 2000years ago?

4) We have millions of innocent Palestinians being evicted from their homes (without a place for refuge), without any clean food or water, even their houses are demolished - while the world looks on and does nothing. While all this is happening, people within the USA are buying land from Palestine, and they don't even intend to live there! Yet millions of innocent Palestinians are being evicted from their own homes without mercy, and without any place for aid. Even the providers of aid are blocked from supporting them, and only a little gets through to the Palestinians. These innocent Palestinians are then bombed with illegal weapons (which causes babies to become deformed), innocent women and children are killed and imprisoned in the hundreds, and this is encouraged by the leaders of the Israeli state.


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