Christmas??

  • Thread starter Thread starter paradise88
  • Start date Start date
  • Replies Replies 51
  • Views Views 9K
Status
Not open for further replies.
I don't mind decorations that say "Merry Christmas", "Happy Hanukah" or "Eid Mubarak", so I'm not arguing for a generic "Happy Holidays" as the only thing it is acceptable for people to say. But making a 5 year old sit on a strange man's knee and telling her that she "must believe" to participate in the ongoing party, that wouldn't be tolerated any place else in society, but we give Santa a free pass on this at malls (and apparently at some schools as well) every year.

Again, I don't think Santa has anything to do with a genuine celebration of Christmas. It's a cultural phenomena that is a perversion of what Christmas is really celebrating. I think the real Saint Nicholas (Bishop of Myra) would be aghast at what has become commonly done in his name.

I agree that Nicholas would probably be upset if he knew what people have done to his name. Somebody at Coca Cola had to have had a very active mind to corrupt him in the manner he was corrupted.
 
Christmas is not a pagan holiday.

Christmas or Christ mass is a celebration of the birth of Jesus, (YHWH)

BUt i will agree it has become more of a celebration of gift giving and trees, and a fat guy that supposedly fit down a chimney:hmm:

My family nor my wife celebrates Christmas like the others. We only recognise the birth of Christ. Like it is supposed to be.:D

And another was right. The Bible tells us "The Nativity" and tells us nothing of "Trees" and Santa.

The gifts are supposed to represent the gifts brought to Jesus at birth from the 3 wise men.......but I am sure he didn't get an I-phone or a wii. Like many believe your supposed to do now.

Tree is supposed to represent........I don't know?

Santa just represents a dude who many many years ago brought gifts to children who wouldn't get any.......But we don't recognise him as anything more than a story.

I have actually talked to people who don't even know the "Nativity" story how it is told in the Bibleimsad.......but they celebrate Christmas?:hmm:

I will never fall for the "politicaly correct" way by saying Happy Holidays or X-mas.....I say Merry Christmas, or Have a blessed Christmas.

I know that Muslims don't recognise this so I don't say it to them (why would i) to me saying this to a Muslim is like a slap in the face. So why do it?

I will however say Happy Eid to my Muslim buddies....It brings a smile to their face when they here me say that:D.....and I love to see all people smile! No matter what they believe, I love all my brothers and sisters in humanity. (i even found Eid Murubak cards for them) They are so suprised(but happy) when i send them to them. I even fasted at the same time Mohammad did.

God bless!
 
Last edited:
In my opinion, it shouldn't.

No religious holidays should be discussed in public schools unless they are prepared to discuss all of them and I don't really think they want to go there. It may have been celebrated for awhile (in your personal experience and others) but that doesn't mean it should.

Why not? Should "Eid" and Islamic traditions be discussed in Islamic public schools throughout the Islamic world or is it just the Western countries that's wrong? I am absolutely for the teachings of the REAL Christmas and Easter in schools. Long may it continue in my honest opinion...
 
Christmas is not a pagan holiday.
I beg to differ it is a pagan holiday.. Jesus (p) was born in the early fall.

18:23 And [when] the throes of childbirth drove her to the trunk of a palm-tree,17 she exclaimed: "Oh, would that I had died ere this, and had become a thing forgotten, utterly forgotten!"

24 Thereupon [a voice] called out to her from beneath that [palm-tree]:18 "Grieve not! Thy Sustainer has provided a rivulet [running] beneath thee;

25 and shake the trunk of the palm-tree towards thee: it will drop fresh, ripe dates upon thee.

26 Eat, then, and drink, and let shine eye be gladdened! And if thou shouldst see any human being, convey this unto him:19 'Behold, abstinence from speech have I vowed unto the Most Gracious; hence, I may not speak today to any mortal.'"20


Dates burgeon forth during the early fall in the region where Jesus (p) was born, thus, I don't know where the 25th of December came from!

Christmas or Christ mass is a celebration of the birth of Jesus, (YHWH)
Neither God nor Jesus asked you to take his birth for a celebration!
BUt i will agree it has become more of a celebration of gift giving and trees, and a fat guy that supposedly fit down a chimney:hmm:
imposing gift giving on people seems ungodly to me.. giving gifts should come from the heart and for no reason, but one shouldn't be made to be tormented buying worthless junk!
My family nor my wife celebrates Christmas like the others. We only recognise the birth of Christ. Like it is supposed to be.:D
celebrating the birth of Christ or Moses, or Aaron or Mohammed (PBUT) is an innovation, a man-made absurdity!

And another was right. The Bible tells us "The Nativity" and tells us nothing of "Trees" and Santa.

The gifts are supposed to represent the gifts brought to Jesus at birth from the 3 wise men.......but I am sure he didn't get an I-phone or a wii. Like many believe your supposed to do now.
It makes you wonder where all this nonsense of trees and velvet clad men came from!



I know that Muslims don't recognise this so I don't say it to them (why would i) to me saying this to a Muslim is like a slap in the face. So why do it?
There is no slap in the face to a Muslim, I think save to have to pay for useless junk as if in agreement and encouragement!

I will however say Happy Eid to my Muslim buddies....It brings a smile to their face when they here me say that:D.....and I love to see all people smile! No matter what they believe, I love all my brothers and sisters in humanity. (i even found Eid Murubak cards for them) They are so suprised(but happy) when i send them to them. I even fasted at the same time Mohammad did.

God bless!
Eid is a celebration of the soul, a celebration of abundance and sacrifice.. there is no imposition of fairy tales of white men in velvet suits or birth of Gods.. one is a celebration of ending the fast, whereby one shares the most difficult and human aspects shared by the majority of those living below the poverty line, i.e 70% of humanity and in celebration of having felt their condition one concludes it by giving zakat.. there is nothing insular or parochial about it, it is a share of the human condition, and the other is a celebration of God's tests, triumph and endurance over Satan..
All in all, Muslims don't brain wash folks begging for gifts and wasting money on nonsense when folks really are hungry and in need of food another wastes maybe a total of $2.00 on a bandanna (she brought my sister) because she thought it was Jesus like since she wears a veil than a bandanna will be a welcome gift? I don't know, but I think folks need to reflect long and deep on why they truly celebrate this holiday.. what their expectations are of others, and how what they do is being viewed by others..
I personally found a bandanna offensive that I grabbed it out of her hands and threw it out on the highway!

all the best
 
I beg to differ it is a pagan holiday.. Jesus (p) was born in the early fall.

18:23 And [when] the throes of childbirth drove her to the trunk of a palm-tree,17 she exclaimed: "Oh, would that I had died ere this, and had become a thing forgotten, utterly forgotten!"

24 Thereupon [a voice] called out to her from beneath that [palm-tree]:18 "Grieve not! Thy Sustainer has provided a rivulet [running] beneath thee;

25 and shake the trunk of the palm-tree towards thee: it will drop fresh, ripe dates upon thee.

26 Eat, then, and drink, and let shine eye be gladdened! And if thou shouldst see any human being, convey this unto him:19 'Behold, abstinence from speech have I vowed unto the Most Gracious; hence, I may not speak today to any mortal.'"20


Dates burgeon forth during the early fall in the region where Jesus (p) was born, thus, I don't know where the 25th of December came from!

Neither God nor Jesus asked you to take his birth for a celebration!
imposing gift giving on people seems ungodly to me.. giving gifts should come from the heart and for no reason, but one shouldn't be made to be tormented buying worthless junk!
celebrating the birth of Christ or Moses, or Aaron or Mohammed (PBUT) is an innovation, a man-made absurdity!

It makes you wonder where all this nonsense of trees and velvet clad men came from!



There is no slap in the face to a Muslim, I think save to have to pay for useless junk as if in agreement and encouragement!

Eid is a celebration of the soul, a celebration of abundance and sacrifice.. there is no imposition of fairy tales of white men in velvet suits or birth of Gods.. one is a celebration of ending the fast, whereby one shares the most difficult and human aspects shared by the majority of those living below the poverty line, i.e 70% of humanity and in celebration of having felt their condition one concludes it by giving zakat.. there is nothing insular or parochial about it, it is a share of the human condition, and the other is a celebration of God's tests, triumph and endurance over Satan..
All in all, Muslims don't brain wash folks begging for gifts and wasting money on nonsense when folks really are hungry and in need of food another wastes maybe a total of $2.00 on a bandanna (she brought my sister) because she thought it was Jesus like since she wears a veil than a bandanna will be a welcome gift? I don't know, but I think folks need to reflect long and deep on why they truly celebrate this holiday.. what their expectations are of others, and how what they do is being viewed by others..
I personally found a bandanna offensive that I grabbed it out of her hands and threw it out on the highway!

all the best



oweeeeeeeeee.
 
As I am super moderator in one palestinian forum, in there I respect also our Christian members at time of Chrstmas as sending news and picture about christian Palestinians.

May I send some also to here?

Friday, December 25, 2009


Thousands of people have crowded into the Palestinian town of Bethlehem to take part in Christmas celebrations.

Pilgrims and Palestinians gathered on Thursday outside the Church of the Nativity, built at the spot where Jesus is believed to have been born.

Live rock music mingled with traditional carols on bagpipes in Manger Square outside, bringing some rare festive spirit to the Palestinian town.

Earlier, a carnival-like atmosphere prevailed in the town as merchants hawked balloon animals, cotton candy, steamed corn and strong, black coffee poured from traditional copper urns.

Inside the church, monks chanted as pilgrims quietly waited in line to pray.

"This is the place where God gave us his son, so it is very special for me to be here, for me and my whole community," said Juan Cruz, 27, from Mexico.

"It's safe, it's warm, it's a happy time. It's good for visitors to see the good things too," said 16 year-old Bethlehem resident Reem Mohammad.

Calls for prayers

The celebrations culminated with midnight mass in the adjoining St Catherine's church, where the leading Roman Catholic cleric in the Holy Land called on the faithful to pray for peace in the troubled region.

"I address myself to all believers throughout the world, and I urge them to pray for this Holy Land. It is a land that suffers and that hopes," Fuad Twal, the Latin Patriarch of Jerusalem, said.

He said true peace would not come to the Holy Land until Israelis and Palestinians treat each other with respect.

"Its inhabitants are brothers who see each other as enemies," he told the gathering that included Mahmoud Abbas, the Palestinian president.

"This land will deserve to be called holy when she breathes freedom, justice, love, reconciliation, peace and security."

The celebrations cap a year when tourists returned to the town in the Israeli-occupied West Bank, in numbers unseen since the outbreak of Israeli-Palestinian violence at the turn of the century.

Khulud Duaibess, the Palestinian tourism minister, said more than 1.6 million people have visited Bethlehem this year, 15,000 pilgrims for Christmas alone.

In 2008, one million tourists visited the town.

Shadow of the wall

However, the tourism boom has not brought prosperity to Bethlehem, with most tourists whisked in for the day from hotels in Israel, Duaibess said.

"Only five per cent of the money stays on the Palestinian side," she said.

Mitri Raheb, a Lutheran pastor in Bethlehem, told Al Jazeera that visitors to the town do not stay for long because of the Israeli occupation, and that has hurt the economy.

The Christmas celebrations have provided only a respite from the shadow of the wall lurking over the entrance to the West Bank town, part of Israel's controversial separation wall.

The eight-metre high concrete barrier that separates Bethlehem from Jerusalem - part of the projected 700km West Bank barrier, is aimed at stopping attacks from Palestinian fighters, Israel says.

Palestinian residents and rights groups call it an "apartheid wall" that cuts them off from much of their land and hampers tourism, trade and freedom of movement.

As Raheb said, for Palestinians, it is "very hard to see a light at the end of the tunnel".

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/m...d Deibes. (AP Photo/Nasser Shiyoukhi)[/quote]
 
Christmas or Christ mass is a celebration of the birth of Jesus, (YHWH)

We muslims don´t celebrate births of any Prothet, not Jesus neither Muhammad. Thats why we don´t undrstand Chirstmas of Christians.
 
As I am super moderator in one palestinian forum, in there I respect also our Christian members at time of Chrstmas as sending news and picture about christian Palestinians.

May I send some also to here?

This is beautiful to see!:D:D:D
 
We muslims don´t celebrate births of any Prothet, not Jesus neither Muhammad. Thats why we don´t undrstand Chirstmas of Christians.

Okay, I understand sister Harb, I don't mean any offense to anyone here.:D

I could explain it if need be. but do you want to hear it? It's okay if you don't I still understand. Nobody here has forced anything on me, I wouldn't as well:D

God be with you.
 
Why not? Should "Eid" and Islamic traditions be discussed in Islamic public schools throughout the Islamic world or is it just the Western countries that's wrong? I am absolutely for the teachings of the REAL Christmas and Easter in schools. Long may it continue in my honest opinion...

Then why don't teachers in these schools tell children the real truth about the true origins of Christmas rather than feeding them fantasy? Don't the children have a right to know how and where Christmas really originated from?

Christmas as well as everything related to it has all come from roman pagan beliefs mainly from the roman pagan festival of Saturnalia. Christian scholars have confirmed this and it is a well known fact.

The Christmas tree came from Pagans who had long worshipped trees in the forest, or brought them into their homes and decorated them, and this observance was adopted and painted with a Christian veneer by the Church.


The Origin of Mistletoe came from Norse mythology which recounts how the god Balder was killed using a mistletoe arrow by his rival god Hoder while fighting for the female Nanna. Druid rituals use mistletoe to poison their human sacrificial victim. The Christian custom of “kissing under” the mistletoe is a later synthesis of the sexual license of Saturnalia with the Druidic sacrificial cult.

The giving of Christmas Presents originated in pre-Christian Rome where the emperors compelled their most despised citizens to bring offerings and gifts during the Saturnalia (in December) and Kalends (in January). Later, this ritual expanded to include gift-giving among the general populace. The Catholic Church gave this custom a Christian flavor by re-rooting it in the supposed gift-giving of Saint Nicholas

'Santa' was derived from a man named Nicholas was born in Parara, Turkey in 270 CE and later became Bishop of Myra. He was among the most senior bishops who convened the Council of Nicaea in 325 CE and created the New Testament.

In 1087, a group of sailors who idolized Nicholas moved his bones from Turkey to a sanctuary in Bari, Italy. There Nicholas supplanted a female boon-giving deity called The Grandmother, or Pasqua Epiphania, who used to fill the children's stockings with her gifts. The Grandmother was ousted from her shrine at Bari, which became the center of the Nicholas cult. Members of this group gave each other gifts during a pageant they conducted annually on the anniversary of Nicholas’ death, December 6.

The Nicholas cult spread north until it was adopted by German and Celtic pagans. These groups worshipped a pantheon led by Woden –their chief god and the father of Thor, Balder, and Tiw. Woden had a long, white beard and rode a horse through the heavens one evening each Autumn. When Nicholas merged with Woden, he shed his Mediterranean appearance, grew a beard, mounted a flying horse, rescheduled his flight for December, and donned heavy winter clothing.

In a bid for pagan adherents in Northern Europe, the Catholic Church adopted the Nicholas cult and taught that he did (and they should) distribute gifts on December 25th instead of December 6th.

In 1809, the novelist Washington Irving (most famous his The Legend of Sleepy Hollow and Rip Van Winkle) wrote a satire of Dutch culture entitled Knickerbocker History. The satire refers several times to the white bearded, flying-horse riding Saint Nicholas using his Dutch name, Santa Claus.

Dr. Clement Moore, a professor at Union Seminary, read Knickerbocker History, and in 1822 he published a poem based on the character Santa Claus: “Twas the night before Christmas, when all through the house, not a creature was stirring, not even a mouse. The stockings were hung by the chimney with care, in the hope that Saint Nicholas soon would be there…” Moore innovated by portraying a Santa with eight reindeer who descended through chimneys.

The Bavarian illustrator Thomas Nast almost completed the modern picture of Santa Claus. From 1862 through 1886, based on Moore’s poem, Nast drew more than 2,200 cartoon images of Santa for Harper’s Weekly. Before Nast, Saint Nicholas had been pictured as everything from a stern looking bishop to a gnome-like figure in a frock. Nast also gave Santa a home at the North Pole, his workshop filled with elves, and his list of the good and bad children of the world. All Santa was missing was his red outfit.

In 1931, the Coca Cola Corporation contracted the Swedish commercial artist Haddon Sundblom to create a coke-drinking Santa. Sundblom modeled his Santa on his friend Lou Prentice, chosen for his cheerful, chubby face. The corporation insisted that Santa’s fur-trimmed suit be bright, Coca Cola red. And Santa was born – a blend of Christian crusader, pagan god, and commercial idol.

It is also believed that Christmas' date was chosen to take advantage of the imperial holiday of the birth of the Sun God Mithras and the pagan festival of Saturnalia which was thought to have been taken over by Christians leaders succeeded in converting to Christianity large numbers of pagans by promising them that they could continue to celebrate the Saturnalia as Christians.

The problem was that there was nothing intrinsically Christian about Saturnalia. To remedy this, these Christian leaders named Saturnalia’s concluding day, December 25th, to be Jesus’ birthday.

One should always look properly into the origins of any festival or celebration because knowledge is the key to clarification on any matter and without it we will remain lost and confused.
 
Last edited:
Okay, I understand sister Harb, I don't mean any offense to anyone here.:D

I could explain it if need be. but do you want to hear it? It's okay if you don't I still understand. Nobody here has forced anything on me, I wouldn't as well:D

God be with you.

You are welcome to explain if you like.

I openminded to learn more how others are thinkin and believe.

:p
 
Then why don't teachers in these schools tell children the real truth about the true origins of Christmas rather than feeding them fantasy? Don't the children have a right to know how and where Christmas really originated from?

Christmas as well as everything related to it has all come from roman pagan beliefs mainly from the roman pagan festival of Saturnalia. Christian scholars have confirmed this and it is a well known fact.

The Christmas tree came from Pagans who had long worshipped trees in the forest, or brought them into their homes and decorated them, and this observance was adopted and painted with a Christian veneer by the Church.
tree worship

The Origin of Mistletoe came from Norse mythology which recounts how the god Balder was killed using a mistletoe arrow by his rival god Hoder while fighting for the female Nanna. Druid rituals use mistletoe to poison their human sacrificial victim. The Christian custom of “kissing under” the mistletoe is a later synthesis of the sexual license of Saturnalia with the Druidic sacrificial cult.

The giving of Christmas Presents originated in pre-Christian Rome where the emperors compelled their most despised citizens to bring offerings and gifts during the Saturnalia (in December) and Kalends (in January). Later, this ritual expanded to include gift-giving among the general populace. The Catholic Church gave this custom a Christian flavor by re-rooting it in the supposed gift-giving of Saint Nicholas

'Santa' was derived from a man named Nicholas was born in Parara, Turkey in 270 CE and later became Bishop of Myra. He was among the most senior bishops who convened the Council of Nicaea in 325 CE and created the New Testament.

In 1087, a group of sailors who idolized Nicholas moved his bones from Turkey to a sanctuary in Bari, Italy. There Nicholas supplanted a female boon-giving deity called The Grandmother, or Pasqua Epiphania, who used to fill the children's stockings with her gifts. The Grandmother was ousted from her shrine at Bari, which became the center of the Nicholas cult. Members of this group gave each other gifts during a pageant they conducted annually on the anniversary of Nicholas’ death, December 6.

The Nicholas cult spread north until it was adopted by German and Celtic pagans. These groups worshipped a pantheon led by Woden –their chief god and the father of Thor, Balder, and Tiw. Woden had a long, white beard and rode a horse through the heavens one evening each Autumn. When Nicholas merged with Woden, he shed his Mediterranean appearance, grew a beard, mounted a flying horse, rescheduled his flight for December, and donned heavy winter clothing.

In a bid for pagan adherents in Northern Europe, the Catholic Church adopted the Nicholas cult and taught that he did (and they should) distribute gifts on December 25th instead of December 6th.

In 1809, the novelist Washington Irving (most famous his The Legend of Sleepy Hollow and Rip Van Winkle) wrote a satire of Dutch culture entitled Knickerbocker History. The satire refers several times to the white bearded, flying-horse riding Saint Nicholas using his Dutch name, Santa Claus.

Dr. Clement Moore, a professor at Union Seminary, read Knickerbocker History, and in 1822 he published a poem based on the character Santa Claus: “Twas the night before Christmas, when all through the house, not a creature was stirring, not even a mouse. The stockings were hung by the chimney with care, in the hope that Saint Nicholas soon would be there…” Moore innovated by portraying a Santa with eight reindeer who descended through chimneys.

The Bavarian illustrator Thomas Nast almost completed the modern picture of Santa Claus. From 1862 through 1886, based on Moore’s poem, Nast drew more than 2,200 cartoon images of Santa for Harper’s Weekly. Before Nast, Saint Nicholas had been pictured as everything from a stern looking bishop to a gnome-like figure in a frock. Nast also gave Santa a home at the North Pole, his workshop filled with elves, and his list of the good and bad children of the world. All Santa was missing was his red outfit.

In 1931, the Coca Cola Corporation contracted the Swedish commercial artist Haddon Sundblom to create a coke-drinking Santa. Sundblom modeled his Santa on his friend Lou Prentice, chosen for his cheerful, chubby face. The corporation insisted that Santa’s fur-trimmed suit be bright, Coca Cola red. And Santa was born – a blend of Christian crusader, pagan god, and commercial idol.

It is also believed that Christmas' date was chosen to take advantage of the imperial holiday of the birth of the Sun God Mithras and the pagan festival of Saturnalia which was thought to have been taken over by Christians leaders succeeded in converting to Christianity large numbers of pagans by promising them that they could continue to celebrate the Saturnalia as Christians.

The problem was that there was nothing intrinsically Christian about Saturnalia. To remedy this, these Christian leaders named Saturnalia’s concluding day, December 25th, to be Jesus’ birthday.

One should always look properly into the origins of any festival or celebration because knowledge is the key to clarification on any matter and without it we will remain lost and confused.

I wasn't once taught about the Christmas tree, santa clause, mistletoe at school. As every Christmas approached at school we were asked to return at about 7:30pm to participate in a play whilst our parents watched. It was the story of the birth of Jesus Christ. This is the teaching that I'm in favour of however, I'm not aware of how children are being taught today. It was my parents that played along with the Santa Clause and for me brought the best memories of my childhood.
 
As I am super moderator in one palestinian forum, in there I respect also our Christian members at time of Chrstmas as sending news and picture about christian Palestinians.

May I send some also to here?

Those pictures are very much appreciated sister. Any more, especially featuring the church of the Nativity, would be lovely.
 
You are welcome to explain if you like.

I openminded to learn more how others are thinkin and believe.

:p

No problem sister, I will get on that asap.:D

I am starting my prayer and will not be finished untill midnight (about 6 hours) so forgive me if it is to be posted sometime tomorrow.

God bless.
 
I agree as well! That was beautful.:D

You ever been there mate? I don't think us Protestants have a share in the church. It's divided by the Eastern Orthodox and Catholic churches. I'd love to go and experience Christmas in Bethlehem though. The sheer magic of the place...
 
You ever been there mate? I don't think us Protestants have a share in the church. It's divided by the Eastern Orthodox and Catholic churches. I'd love to go and experience Christmas in Bethlehem though. The sheer magic of the place...

No but my wife and her family went the year before I met her, She said it was a life changing expeirence, She also said it was the most awesome place she had ever been.

I used to be Roman Catholic and we went to a E, Orthodox Christmas service once........14 HUORS, let me say that again.....14 HOURRRRRRRRSSSSS! My legs were killing me, no sitting down.

They said it was the same in Bethlahem.;D

We are planning a trip to Italy. Greece, Turkey...then Egypt, Syria, Isriael and a couple others. It will take approx 3 months, and we end up back in Italy to see some family....They want to meet my wife:D I haven't been.

Being in Bethlehem for Christmas would be an awesome experience!

Come on lets go brother:D

God bless.
 
Why not? Should "Eid" and Islamic traditions be discussed in Islamic public schools throughout the Islamic world or is it just the Western countries that's wrong? I am absolutely for the teachings of the REAL Christmas and Easter in schools. Long may it continue in my honest opinion...

With all due respect,

Eid and Islamic traditions should be discussed in ISLAMIC public schools. The key word here being "islamic".
Just as Catholic holidays and traditions should be discussed in Catholic public schools if there is such a thing.
As far as just a traditional public school, I don't think any religious holiday should be singled out and celebrated unless they are willing to acknowledge them all. I don't have a problem with children learning about what other religions celebrate but to be forced to celebrate it also or be left out, I don't agree with that. Just my opinion.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar Threads

Back
Top