bible clearly says jesus was not crucified!!!

[Al-manar]

Peace

Yeah , but He was trying to prove it from the Biblical perspective

I don't think he was trying to prove it from the Biblical perspective ,nor from the Quranic prospective...... he approached it (the In between) approach...

and with Jesus words rather than the Quran

but shouldn't we first get a clue that those were really the words of Jesus?

The Quran affirms that those are not the words of Jesus and tells us about a simple test to support its claims....

And the next verse is that , it was made to appear to them so - wa laakin shubiha lahum , in other words ,they saw him crucified on the cross

They didn't see him or anyone else crucified on the cross ,that is what the Quran tells...

Airforce seems to hold (in some of his previous posts) that to say that one is crucified is to say that he is actually killed by the process of hanging on a cross. Do you agree with that definition? Or... would you allow, as apparently Deedat does, that to say that one is crucified means that they have been put on a cross, but that such a person could be taken down from the cross before death and while they would be alive (never dead) that it could still correctly be said of them that they were crucified?

But they killed him not, nor crucified him. Holy Quran 4: 157

If crucified means killed,then we can rewrite it:

But they killed him not, nor killed him. Holy Quran 4: 157

Is that possible? if the verb (salaba) and alone denotes killing by crucifiction then why to use the other verb (Qatala) (killed)?!!!

I was asking Al Manar if he believes regarding that "But it was made them to appear to them so " that Judas was crucified in the Jesus place as mentioned in Gospel Of Barnabas, which some muslims believe to be a true theory regarding his alleged "crucifixion"

Barnaba's view is based on the common narrations of the book of tafsirs which came from 2 or three sahabi who were jew christian converts, who themselves got such narration from the Gnostic based oral material ......

We don't know what officially happened, but if it was made to appear that it was somebody else, it could be because Allah wanted to save prophet Jesus

and raising him up wouldn't be enough to save him?

and what could be more official than that?

[004:158] On the contrary, ALLAH exalted him to Himself. And ALLAH is Mighty, Wise.


indeed,how truth such proverb:

صواب مهجور خير من خطا شائع

(Abandoned truth better than a common mistake)





كل معلوم من الدين بالضرورة مجمع عليه ، و ليس كل مجمع عليه معلوم من الدين بالضرورة

Regards

 

[Predator]

They didn't see him or anyone else crucified on the cross ,that is what the Quran tells...

So you are saying that the Jews are simply boasting and they didnt catch and or put someone similar on the cross at all ,so in other words you belive that the below Hadith is fabricated and false

The renowned Muslim commentator Ibn Kathir record a similar tradition

(O you to whom the Dhikr (the Qur'an) has been sent down! Verily, you are a mad man!) When Allah sent `Isa with proofs and guidance, the Jews, may Allah's curses, anger, torment and punishment be upon them, envied him because of his prophethood and obvious miracles; curing the blind and leprous and bringing the dead back to life, by Allah's leave. He also used to make the shape of a bird from clay and blow in it, and it became a bird by Allah's leave and flew. `Isa performed other miracles that Allah honored him with, yet the Jews defied and bellied him and tried their best to harm him. Allah's Prophet `Isa could not live in any one city for long and he had to travel often with his mother, peace be upon them. Even so, the Jews were not satisfied, and they went to the king of Damascus at that time, a Greek polytheist who worshipped the stars. They told him that there was a man in Bayt Al-Maqdis misguiding and dividing the people in Jerusalem and stirring unrest among the king's subjects. The king became angry and wrote to his deputy in Jerusalem to arrest the rebel leader, stop him from causing unrest, crucify him and make him wear a crown of thorns. When the king's deputy in Jerusalem received these orders, he went with some Jews to the house that `Isa was residing in, and he was then with twelve, thirteen or seventeen of his companions. That day was a Friday, in the evening. They surrounded `Isa in the house, and when he felt that they would soon enter the house or that he would sooner or later have to leave it, he said to his companions, "Who volunteers to be made to look like me, for which he will be my companion in Paradise'' A young man volunteered, but `Isa thought that he was too young. He asked the question a second and third time, each time the young man volunteering, prompting `Isa to say, "Well then, you will be that man.'' Allah made the young man look exactly like `Isa, while a hole opened in the roof of the house, and `Isa was made to sleep and ascended to heaven while asleep.

Allah sid (And (remember) when Allah said: "O `Isa! I will take you and raise you to Myself.'') When `Isa ascended, those who were in the house came out. When those surrounding the house saw the man who looked like `Isa, they thought that he was `Isa. So they took him at night, crucified him and placed a crown of thorns on his head. The Jews then boasted that they killed `Isa and some Christians accepted their false claim, due to their ignorance and lack of reason. As for those who were in the house with `Isa, they witnessed his ascension to heaven, while the rest thought that the Jews killed `Isa by crucifixion. They even said that Maryam sat under the corpse of the crucified man and cried, and they say that the dead man spoke to her. All this was a test from Allah for His servants out of His wisdom. Allah explained this matter in the Glorious Qur'an which He sent to His honorable Messenger, whom He supported with miracles and clear, unequivocal evidence. Allah is the Most Truthful, and He is the Lord of the worlds Who knows the secrets, what the hearts conceal, the hidden matters in heaven and earth, what has occurred, what will occur, and what would occur if it was decreed

 

[Al-manar]

So you are saying that the Jews are simply boasting and they didnt catch and or put someone similar on the cross at all ,so in other words you belive that the below Hadith is fabricated and false

Peace Bro


the narration you just quoted is not a hadith....

they are narrated from Wahb ibn Munabbih and Qatada , they simply narrated such narrations which they heard before adapting Islam ...but just cause they heard it from Gnostic oral traditions doesn't mean they are true....

those narrations to be rejected:

1- absent from the Quran and hadith Mutawatir, or even Ahaad.

2- contradictory in itself .

3- would Question Allah's wisdom.

4- linguestic factor who would bring it upon its face(details may be in another occasion)..

5- Gnosticism has a theology in general against Islam,so how we would trust what they say regarding crucifiction.

Peace

 

[Supreme]

Whatever we say about this does not reflect islamic teachings.

We don't know what officially happened, but if it was made to appear that it was somebody else - it could be because Allah wanted to save prophet Jesus, like he did with musa, ibrahim and many other prophets, I'm not saying all prophets were saved by Allah, thousands were killed at the hands of disbelievers, I'm just giving you an example.

Like the verse says it was made to appear to them, so they thought it was the prophet jesus they killed. This is nothing difficult for god to do.

So the Quran simply doesn't provide an answer? Surely if God wanted to make that verse seem more acceptable to Christians, he would at least elaborate and give more than just a brief mention. I also understand how it's possible for God to do it; I just don't understand what incentive He had if all it would do is go on to found a major world religion dissimilar from Islam.

 

[Grace Seeker]

Whatever we say about this does not reflect islamic teachings.

We don't know what officially happened, but if it was made to appear that it was somebody else - it could be because Allah wanted to save prophet Jesus, like he did with musa, ibrahim and many other prophets, I'm not saying all prophets were saved by Allah, thousands were killed at the hands of disbelievers, I'm just giving you an example.

Like the verse says it was made to appear to them, so they thought it was the prophet jesus they killed. This is nothing difficult for god to do.

The "IF" in your statement is something that I would like to take a closer look at.

157. That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah.;- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-

158. Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise;-

(translation by Yusuf Ali)

You said:if it was made to appear that it was somebody else

Does the Qur'an actually say that it was somebody else?
No. It only says that they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them.

There is more than one way that a group might believe that they have crucified a person when they indeed did not.
1) They were mistaken about who it was they crucified. I.e., someone was crucified, but it wasn't Jesus.
2) They were mistaken about there being anyone actually crucified at all. I.e., rather than substituting another person in Jesus' place, God caused the people to "see" what they wanted to see, but the reality is that it was all a figment of their imagination. (BTW, while I would seriously doubt this to be a credible explanation, it makes every bit as much sense to me as the explanation that they actually crucified Judas but God caused them to see Jesus' face.)
3) They might be correct about the facts of the person being crucified, but wrong with regard to whom they assign the responsibility for the crucifixion being carried out. I.e, Jesus was indeed crucified and the Jews viewed themselves as having accomplished this, but the reality is that the people really responsible for it were the Romans, not the Jews.
4) They might have one definition of crucifixion and the writer another. I.e., it could be that the Jews in question perceived that if a person was put on a cross and appeared to be dead that this meant he was crucified, but it might be that God is saying that though it appears Jesus was killed, the reality is that God brought him back to life and therefore it is wrong for the Jews to say that they either crucified or killed him.


So, given that the Qur'an doesn't spell it out and there is more than one possible way to understand what the passage describes, why is it that Muslims gravitate to the first of these explanations rather than one of the other possibilities?

 

[aadil77]

Lucky I found this, it might interest you Grace Seeker

Who was the person who was made to resemble ‘Eesa (peace be upon him)?
I have a few question about the one who was crucified instead of Isa (peace be upon him) I have seen in one place saying that the one who betrayed Isa (PBUH) was made to look like Isa and was crucified and I have seen in another place saying that one Isa’s companions volunteered to be crucified instead of Isa. I am confused, can you tell me which one is true?.


Praise be to Allaah.

The Qur’aan states that ‘Eesa (peace be upon him) was not crucified or killed, and that he was lifted up to heaven. There is no text of the Revelation that tells us the details of what happened on the day when that was made to appear to the Jews, but there is a saheeh report from Ibn ‘Abbaas (may Allaah be pleased with him) that the Messiah (peace be upon him) said to those of his companions who were with him in the house: “Which of you will be made to look like me and be killed in my stead, and he will be with me in the same level as me (in Paradise)?” A young man who was one of the youngest of them stood up, and he said to him: “Sit down.” Then he repeated it and that young man stood up again, and he said: “Sit down.” Then he repeated it again and that young man stood up and said, “I (will do it).” He said: “You are the one.” So he was caused to look like ‘Eesa and ‘Eesa was lifted up from a window in the house to heaven. Ibn Katheer (may Allaah have mercy on him) said in his Tafseer (4/337), commenting on this report: This is a saheeh isnaad going back to Ibn ‘Abbaas. Similarly it was narrated from more than one of the salaf that he said to them: “Which of you will be made to look like me and be killed in my stead, and he will be my companion in Paradise?” End quote.

Then he (may Allaah have mercy on him) said (4/341): Ibn Jareer favoured the view that all of his companions were made to look like ‘Eesa. End quote. This was mentioned in a report narrated from Wahb ibn Munabbih which was narrated by Ibn Jareer (may Allaah have mercy on him) and quoted by Ibn Katheer (4/337), in which it states that when they surrounded ‘Eesa and his companions and entered upon them, “Allaah made them all appear in the form of ‘Eesa and they said to them, ‘You have bewitched us; send forth to us ‘Eesa or we will kill you all,’ until they sent forth one of their number after ‘Eesa promised Paradise to him, and they took him and crucified him.”

But Ibn Katheer said after that: This is a very strange story. End quote.

He also (may Allaah have mercy on him) said (4/341): Some of the Christians claim that Judas Iscariot – who is the one who led the Jews to ‘Eesa – is the one who was made to look like ‘Eesa so they crucified him, and he said: I am not the one you want, I am the one who led you to him. Allaah knows best what really happened. End quote.

With that, Ibn Katheer (may Allaah have mercy on him) concluded his discussion of this topic: Allaah knows best what really happened.

Knowledge of this matter is of no great benefit; if we needed to know that, our Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) would have told us.
And Allaah knows best.


Islam Q&A

http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/103515/isa

 

[Grace Seeker]

Lucky I found this, it might interest you Grace Seeker

Thanks, aadil. Though I note what Al-manar said with regard to these stories:

they are narrated from Wahb ibn Munabbih and Qatada , they simply narrated such narrations which they heard before adapting Islam ...but just cause they heard it from Gnostic oral traditions doesn't mean they are true....

So, my question remains: Why is it that Muslims gravitate to the first of these explanations rather than one of the other possibilities?

 

[aadil77]

Thanks, aadil. Though I note what Al-manar said with regard to these stories:


So, my question remains: Why is it that Muslims gravitate to the first of these explanations rather than one of the other possibilities?

Which explanations? I really don't want to comment anymore as I don't have the knowledge about it.

There isn't much certainty on the matter as even the scholar ibn kathir ends with this

With that, Ibn Katheer (may Allaah have mercy on him) concluded his discussion of this topic: Allaah knows best what really happened

Thats all we really have, the only way we'd know for sure is when the prophet himself descends back to earth

 

[Grace Seeker]

Which explanations?

I listed four (there may be more) different possiblities that would all fit within the scope of what the Qur'an actually says:

1) They were mistaken about who it was they crucified.
2) They were mistaken about there being anyone actually crucified at all.
3) They might be correct about the facts of the person being crucified, but wrong with regard to whom they assign the responsibility for the crucifixion being carried out.
4) They might have one definition of crucifixion and the writer another.


I'm not asking any one to speculate as to which of these scenarios (or any other one might imagine) actually occurred. You say there isn't much certainty on the matter -- of course not -- we both agree that the Qur'an doesn't actually say. Yet I observe that, on the whole, Muslims do in fact tend to not only speculate, but have strongly held opinions as to what happen. And when they do so they nearly universally gravitate to the first option -- that someone else was crucified in Isa's place -- as their most commonly held way of understanding the passage. Can someone explain to me why that is?

 

[aadil77]

I'm not asking any one to speculate as to which of these scenarios (or any other one might imagine) actually occurred. You say there isn't much certainty on the matter -- of course not -- we both agree that the Qur'an doesn't actually say. Yet I observe that, on the whole, Muslims do in fact tend to not only speculate, but have strongly held opinions as to what happen. And when they do so they nearly universally gravitate to the first option -- that someone else was crucified in Isa's place -- as their most commonly held way of understanding the passage. Can someone explain to me why that is?

Yes I understand that, I thought the same as I'd heard it from someone else, I think this view has probably just spread amongst muslims and the fact that it doesn't sound hard to believe can make it popular.

 

[Al-manar]

There is more than one way that a group might believe that they have crucified a person when they indeed did not.

let's interpret the Quran by the Quran,analysing your arguments one by one:


1- They might be correct about the facts of the person being crucified, but wrong with regard to whom they assign the responsibility for the crucifixion being carried out. I.e, Jesus was indeed crucified and the Jews viewed themselves as having accomplished this, but the reality is that the people really responsible for it were the Romans, not the Jews.


we can rule that out completely ,

A- The Holy Quran, 4:157 and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not.


If the Roman crucified him why would they differ therin? why would they follow conjecture? what was the conjecture about,to begin with?


B- [005:110] Then will God say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Recount My favour to thee and to thy mother. Behold! I strengthened thee with the holy spirit, so that thou didst speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. Behold! I taught thee the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel and behold! thou makest out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, by My leave, and thou breathest into it and it becometh a bird by My leave, and thou healest those born blind, and the lepers, by My leave. And behold! thou bringest forth the dead by My leave. And behold! I did restrain the Children of Israel from (violence to) thee when thou didst show them the clear Signs, and the unbelievers among them said: 'This is nothing but evident magic.


Allah called the act of protection of Jesus to be favor and bless......

would Allah have let him to the hands of the Roman to do what he protected him from the Jews?!!

Imaginary dialogue :

God: Jesus, Recount My favour to you I did restrain the Children of Israel from violence to you...


Jesus : but I can't forget that day the Romans humilated me, tortured me till death.......


does that make sense?!!!!



2-
They were mistaken about who it was they crucified. I.e., someone was crucified, but it wasn't Jesus.

1- We don't have any authentic proof text for such theory.

2- If they really been decieved by someone had the exact physical appearance of Jesus,and swallowed the trick ,then again the question impose itself ,why would they differ therin? why would they follow conjecture? a man exactly looks like jesus and been crucified and buried,and jesus disappeared from the scene , so what conjecture been there?!!!

may be a conjecture by his disciples that their prophet passed safely ,and someone had the exact looking been excuted instead? but who cares? and who would believe?

would the jews believe their theory about their master and reject what they had seen by their own eyes?


The Holy Quran, 4:157 and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not.


3- it could be that the Jews in question perceived that if a person was put on a cross and appeared to be dead that this meant he was crucified, but it might be that God is saying that though it appears Jesus was killed, the reality is that God brought him back to life .


1 - Isn't the act of crucifiction violence? if so God affirms:

I did restrain the Children of Israel from (violence to) [/B]thee

2- again,what was the conjecture and guessing about?

..................................................................................

Have we had enough nonQuranic theories and speculations without necessity?
yes , I think so..

now let's read the Quran again and let it interpret itself:


- Jesus came with the message and supported his message validity with miracles,but the unbelievers among them said: 'This is nothing but evident magic.'[005:110]


- the magician must be excuted...

- the hand of God is there and the protection from violence,they killed him not, nor crucified him [004:157]

what happened? [004:158] Nay, God raised him up unto Himself; and God is Exalted in Power, Wise;-


his mission was terminated in peace and he rest in the place which God decided it for, in peace...


Jesus as any important figure if disappears suddenly without clues to the masses , would creat a conjecture from every kind and color..

The Holy Quran, 4:157 and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow...


I posted that before :

The absence of Jesus would make them in doubt and be victims to conjecture, just as the absence of famous figures, who have lots of enemies,
I remember once there was conjecture that Ben laden has died, and his friend been killed and some people believed such conjecture and continued believing that till they found new message from him!!!
Had he stayed silent forever, you would find claims as, it was someone else similar to him, who been killed etc......

People followed conjecture after the departure of Jesus :

Some thought he was killed....

Others thought he been substituted on the cross...

Others thought he married Maria Magdalena...
Etc…..


Had the man been killed and been witnessed by his enemies and his friends alike, there wouldn’t had been such disagreement on how his mission terminated !!

The matter, according to the Quran, is conjecture and doubts which been experienced by those who witnessed nothing.

Regards

 

[Grace Seeker]

Al-manar, I really appreciate the other parts of the Qur'an you brought to bear on this topic. After all, if I want to know why it is that Muslim tend to one answer over another, then having the Qur'an interpret the Qur'an is indeed the preferred way to proceed. So, I sincerely appreciate that you did just that.

But I am confused by part of your answer:

2-
They were mistaken about who it was they crucified. I.e., someone was crucified, but it wasn't Jesus.

1- We don't have any authentic proof text for such theory.

2- If they really been decieved by someone had the exact physical appearance of Jesus,and swallowed the trick ,then again the question impose itself ,why would they differ therin? why would they follow conjecture? a man exactly looks like jesus and been crucified and buried,and jesus disappeared from the scene , so what conjecture been there?!!!

may be a conjecture by his disciples that their prophet passed safely ,and someone had the exact looking been excuted instead? but who cares? and who would believe?

would the jews believe their theory about their master and reject what they had seen by their own eyes?


The Holy Quran, 4:157 and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not.

It seems to me (though perhaps I misunderstand your meaning) as if you are saying that it is conjecture that anyone was crucified. If that is so, then where does this pervasive theory that I find repeated in these forums come from that another was crucified in Jesus' palce? And why, if it is only conjecture, does this view so stubbornly persist within Islamic circles despite no actual evidence regarding it from the Qur'an?

Thanks again for what you've already shared. I await your reply before asking more questions.

 

[Al-manar]

where does this pervasive theory that I find repeated in these forums come from that another was crucified in Jesus' palce? And why, if it is only conjecture, does this view so stubbornly persist within Islamic circles despite no actual evidence regarding it from the Qur'an?

.

1- common in the books of tafsirs,just 2 tafsirs questioned it .

2- people always search for what amuses their imagination , putting the likeness of jesus on someone else seems amusing,interesting especially for the eastern people.

3- another factor is the discovery of the Gnostic Apocalypse of Peter ,and the gospel of barnaba

both provide the same idea , some muslims mistakenly argued that their discovery would support the theory,while the fact we think that their discovery would damage more and more the credibility of the theory......


as the first is nothing but Gnostic work which can never be called a gospel or a reflection of what the Quran tells about the nature of true christianity and true christians....
and the second ,it is wise to be dealt with as a forgery till it proven otherwise...



Regards

 

[Predator]

I feel Christians are confused between the definition of Resurrection and Resuscitation

When Jesus raised Lazarus from death by asking God , God just resuscitated and revived him

(d) "And Jesus lifted up his eyes (towards heaven), and said,
Father, I thank thee that THOU HAST HEARD ME.
"And I know that THOU HEAREST ME ALWAYS: but
because of the people which stand by l said (my supplication
aloud), that THEY MAY BELIEVE that thou hast sent me.
"And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice,
Lazarus, come forth.
"And he that was dead came forth . . ." JOHN 11:41-43
Who then gave life back to Lazarus? The answer is "GOD!" For God
heard the prayer of Jesus, as "always!"

Resurrection : When the hour of your real death(Not the clinical death ,as pronounced by doctors , the doctors have erred and will continue to make mistakes ) arrives , the angel of Death comes and takes our soul from your Body and then your Body decomposes , that doesnt happen in the case of Lazarus and Jesus revived him and NOT resurrected him from death and lazarus died later on

It is mentioned in your bible

Hebrews 9:27 : It is ordained for all men once to die and after that the Judgement ,

Quran 21:35 Every human being is bound to taste death once and We test you [all] through the bad and the good [things of life] by way of trial: and unto Us you all must return.

Only Allah can resurrect the dead people ,( all these bones ) and Allah said he would put back even the end of our fingertips on the day of Judgement

Back on topic Abdullah Kareem in his article has given very good reasons here to believe that it was indeed the traitor Judas who betrayed Jesus was crucified instead as a punishment from God and God saved Jesus from the crucifuxion

http://www.answering-christianity.org/abdullah_smith/crucifixion_of_judas.htm

 

[Supreme]

Back on topic Abdullah Kareem in his article has given very good reasons here to believe that it was indeed the traitor Judas who betrayed Jesus was crucified instead as a punishment from God and God saved Jesus from the crucifuxion

http://www.answering-christianity.or...n_of_judas.htm

So, despite the Bible having four seperate accounts, each of which mention that Jesus was crucified explicitly, the article searches out Psalms, OT books completely unrelated to Christ's crucifixion and an uncanonical Gnostic Gospel, digging out verses whose interpretation is arguable and completely subjective, and expects this desperation to win over Christians to his side? Seriously?

Also, this Abdullah Kareem can believe whatever he wants about the crucifixion- indeed, it looks like he already has, by using sources completely independent (and therefore almost certainly corrupt, immoral and false!) from the Quran to determine his efforts in proseltyzing to Christians. Fail.

 

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you Airforce;

I feel Christians are confused between the definition of Resurrection and Resuscitation

We pray to a God of power and might, we believe all things are possible for God. He created the universe and life from nothing, he can give virgins birth, he can raise the dead, why should we doubt God's power?

In the spirit of praying for a greater faith.

Eric

 

[Predator]

We pray to a God of power and might, we believe all things are possible for God

You cant be serious about that " all things are possible" especially when he has already failed

JUDGES 1:19

"And the Lord was with Judah; and he drove out the
inhabitants of the mountain; but COULD NOT drive out the
inhabitants of the valley, because they had CHARIOTS OF
IRON."

 

[Predator]

So, despite the Bible having four seperate accounts, each of which mention that Jesus was crucified explicitly, the article searches out Psalms, OT books completely unrelated to Christ's crucifixion and an uncanonical Gnostic Gospel, digging out verses whose interpretation is arguable and completely subjective, and expects this desperation to win over Christians to his side? Seriously?

Also, this Abdullah Kareem can believe whatever he wants about the crucifixion- indeed, it looks like he already has, by using sources completely independent (and therefore almost certainly corrupt, immoral and false!) from the Quran to determine his efforts in proseltyzing to Christians. Fail.

The only fail is the crucifxion and even the bible prophesizes and proves christ wasnt crucified and the Psalm clearly and indisputably confirms that Jesus never got crucified!

http://www.answering-christianity.com/psalm_116_117_118.htm

 

[Nathaniel]

You cant be serious about that " all things are possible" especially when he has already failed

What translation was that?

Here is better translation (TNIV):

The LORD was with the men of Judah. They took possession of the hill country, but they were unable to drive the people from the plains, because they had chariots fitted with iron.

 

[Predator]

The King James version

And the LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.

Lord "teams up" with Judah and together they couldnt drive out those chariots of iron , so it means basically the Lord and Judah together have failed