How the Bible and the Quran seriously view women

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Let us look at how Islam and the Bible view women, and see in real Truth how terrible the women's status would be if they were living under a true Christian state that follows the Bible 100%.



1- In the Bible:

Jesus considers women as dirt that defiles men (since Jesus, the GOD, is the one who supposedly inspired the New Testament as Christians claim): Revelation 14:4 "Those are those (men) who did not defile themselves with women, for they kept themselves pure. They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They were purchased from among men and offered as first fruits to God and the Lamb."

Some Christians claim that Revelation 14:4 is referring to those sinless men who stayed away from fornication and adultery, and it is not meant at all to be degrading or insulting to women.

The verse does not say "those who did not defile themselves with fornication or adultery". Have the verse said that, then it would've included both males and females and there would be nothing to disagree about. But the verse clearly and irrefutably says: "those who did not defile themselves with women", which means (1) No females will be among those men; and (2) Women are defiling to men.

Continuing with the article...

Women are not only spiritually defiling to men as Jesus put it, but they're also physically defiling when they have their menses. Anything they touch becomes unclean: Leviticus 15:19-30 "And if a woman have an issue (her period/menses), [and] her issue in her flesh be blood, she shall be put apart seven days: and whosoever toucheth her shall be unclean until the even. And every thing that she lieth upon in her separation shall be unclean: every thing also that she sitteth upon shall be unclean. And whosoever toucheth her bed shall wash his clothes, and bathe [himself] in water, and be unclean until the even. And whosoever toucheth any thing that she sat upon shall wash his clothes, and bathe [himself] in water, and be unclean until the even. And if it [be] on [her] bed, or on any thing whereon she sitteth, when he toucheth it, he shall be unclean until the even. And if any man lie with her at all, and her flowers be upon him, he shall be unclean seven days; and all the bed whereon he lieth shall be unclean. And if a woman have an issue of her blood many days out of the time of her separation, or if it run beyond the time of her separation; all the days of the issue of her uncleanness shall be as the days of her separation: she [shall be] unclean. Every bed whereon she lieth all the days of her issue shall be unto her as the bed of her separation: and whatsoever she sitteth upon shall be unclean, as the uncleanness of her separation. And whosoever toucheth those things shall be unclean, and shall wash his clothes, and bathe [himself] in water, and be unclean until the even. But if she be cleansed of her issue, then she shall number to herself seven days, and after that she shall be clean. And on the eighth day she shall take unto her two turtles, or two young pigeons, and bring them unto the priest, to the door of the tabernacle of the congregation. And the priest shall offer the one [for] a sin offering, and the other [for] a burnt offering; and the priest shall make an atonement for her before the LORD for the issue of her uncleanness."

I think it is safe to say that Revelation 14:4 and Leviticus 15:19-30 are sister verses.

Birth of any female is a loss: Ecclesiasticus 22:3 "....and the birth of ANY daughter is a loss" (From the New Jerusalem Bible. It's a Roman Catholics Bible).

If a woman gives birth to a baby boy, then she becomes unclean for 7 days. But if she gives birth to a baby girl, then she becomes unclean for 14 days.

So in other words, the birth of any female causes double the pollution: Leviticus 12:2-5 "Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a woman have conceived seed, and born a MALE child: then she shall be unclean SEVEN DAYS; according to the days of the separation for her infirmity shall she be unclean. And in the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised. And she shall then continue in the blood of her purifying THIRTY THREE days; she shall touch no hallowed thing, nor come into the sanctuary, until the days of her purifying be fulfilled. But if she bear a FEMALE child, then she shall be unclean TWO WEEKS, as in her separation: and she shall continue in the blood of her purifying SIXTY SIX days."

I think it's safe to say that Ecclesiasticus 22:3 and Leviticus 12:2-5 are sister verses.

If a woman tries to save her husband from a beating by grabbing the other man's private parts to lift him off her husband, then both her hands must get cut off: Deuteronomy 25:11-12 "And in case men struggle together (in a fight) with one another, and the wife of the one has come near to deliver her husband out of the striking one (to save her husband), and she has thrust out her hand and grabbed hold of his private (the other man's groin), she must then get both her hands cut off, and the eyes of the men must feel no sorrow."

Fathers can sell their daughters as slave girls: Exodus 21:7-8 "And in case a man should sell his daughter as a slave girl, she will not go out in the way that the slave men go out. If she is displeasing in the eyes of her master so that he doesn't designate her as a concubine but causes her to be redeemed, he will not be entitled to sell her to a foreign people in his treacherously dealing with her."

Daughters inherit nothing when there are sons: "If a man dies and leaves no son, turn his inheritance over to his daughter. (Numbers 27:8)" So the American law of splitting everything equally is not Biblical.

Jesus himself in Revelation 14:4 considered women as dirt that defiles men. Even Jesus, the Christians' highest model, despised women in the Bible!! It is crystal clear that women in the Bible are nothing but a defiling dirt and trash to men. This is no insult to women by me. This is just simply the way the Bible views women. Ironically, Jesus confirmed this view.





2- In Islam:

So how does Islam view women then? Is it any better than the Bible? You bet it is! Let us look at what Allah Almighty said about women in the Noble Quran:

There is a great deal of good in some women: "O ye who believe! Ye are forbidden to inherit women against their will. Nor should ye treat them with harshness, that ye may take away part of the dower [money given by the husband to the wife for the marriage contract] ye have given them, except where they have been guilty of open lewdness; on the contrary live with them on a footing of kindness and equity. If ye take a dislike to them it may be that ye dislike a thing, and God brings about through it a great deal of good. (The Noble Quran, 4:19)"

Men and women were created for each others, in order to live in peace, harmony and love with each others as husbands and wives: "And among God's signs is this: He created for you mates from amongst yourselves (males as mates for females and vice versa) that you might find tranquillity and peace in them. And he has put love and kindness among you. Herein surely are signs for those who reflect. (The Noble Quran, 30:21)"

Men can not harm their wives: "...Do not retain them (i.e., your wives) to harm them...(The Noble Quran, 2:231)"

"If a wife fears cruelty or desertion on her husband's part, there is no blame on them if they arrange an amicable settlement between themselves; and such settlement is best; even though men's souls are swayed by greed. But if ye do good and practise self-restraint, God is well-acquainted with all that ye do. (The Noble Quran, 4:128)"



Prophet Muhammad Commanded Mercy and Kindness to the Wives:

There are literally 10s of Sayings of Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, where he is documented to have said:


Narrated Mu'awiyah al-Qushayri: "I went to the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) and asked him: What do you say (command) about our wives? He replied: Give them food what you have for yourself, and clothe them by which you clothe yourself, and do not beat them, and do not revile them. (Sunan Abu-Dawud, Book 11, Marriage (Kitab Al-Nikah), Number 2139)"

Righteous women are those who are loyal and obedient to their husbands: "Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all). (The Noble Quran, 4:34)"

Men can't have sex with their women during Menses, but they can sleep with them and touch them: "They ask you concerning menstruation. Say: that is an Adha (a harmful thing for a husband to have a sexual intercourse with his wife while she is having her menses), therefore keep away from women during menses and go not unto them till they have purified (from menses and have taken a bath). And when they have purified themselves, then go in unto them as Allah has ordained for you (go in unto them in any manner as long as it is in their vagina). Truly, Allah loves those who turn unto Him in repentance and loves those who purify themselves (by taking a bath and cleaning and washing thoroughly their private parts, bodies, for their prayers, etc.). (The Noble Quran, 2:222)"

Maimuna (the wife of the Holy Prophet) reported: "The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) contacted and embraced his wives over the waist-wrapper when they were menstruating. (Translation of Sahih Muslim, The Book of Menstruation (Kitab Al-Haid), Book 003, Number 0579)"

Women have equal rights for them and against them: "..and for women are rights equal to the rights against them but men have a degree over them (in the context of divorce) in what is just. (The Noble Quran, 2:228)"

The birth of a female is not a biggest tragedy and the end of the world as it is in the Bible: "When news is brought to one of them, of (the birth of) a female (child), his face darkens, and he is filled with inward grief! With shame does he hide himself from his people, Because of the bad news He has had! Shall he retain it On (sufferance and) contempt, Or bury it in the dust? Ah! what an evil (choice) They decide on? (The Noble Quran, 16:58-59)" So considering the birth of females as a bad thing is evil by itself in the Noble Quran.

Also, the Prophet peace be upon him said: Narrated AbuSa'id al-Khudri: "The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: If anyone cares for three daughters, disciplines them, marries them, and does good to them, he will go to Paradise. (Translation of Sunan abu Dawud, Book 41, General Behavior (Kitab Al-Adab), Number 5128)"

Women have the right for the highest education, unlike what some Muslim fanatics claim: Narrated Abu Musa Al-Ashari: "The Prophet said, 'He who has a slave-girl and teaches her good manners and improves her education and then manumits and marries her, will get a double reward; and any slave who observes Allah's right and his master's right will get a double reward.' (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Manumission of Slaves, Volume 3, Book 46, Number 723)"

"....Are those equal, those who know and those who do not know? It is those who are endued with understanding that receive admonition. (The Noble Quran, 39:9)"

"...Those truly fear God, among His Servants, who have knowledge: for God is Exalted in Might, Oft-Forgiving. (The Noble Quran, 35:28)"

"And among God's signs is this: He created for you mates from amongst yourselves (males as mates for females and vice versa) that you might find tranquillity and peace in them. And he has put love and kindness among you. Herein surely are signs for those who reflect. (The Noble Quran, 30:21)"


3- Conclusion:

As we clearly saw in the Bible, women are considered worthless and defiling to men. Females' birth is even considered a loss and causes double the pollution and dirt in the Bible. The mother becomes double unclean when she gives birth to a female than to a male. How much more humiliation of women do we need to see in the Bible?

And as we clearly saw in Islam, women are considered good. Allah Almighty created both men and women to live together as husbands and wives in peace, love and harmony. Also, considering the birth of females as a bad thing is evil by itself in the Noble Quran. So unlike the Bible, it is not the end of the world when females are born!
 
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With respect. Thats cherry picking.

I can find verses that respect and subjigate women in any book. I would challeneg you to produce a book where I can't?

Thus:Sura 4: 35, 4: 4.Sura 2:222,2:223 2:229 4: 12 4:177 4:20 4:24 4:34 4:43 4:98 4:117
I havnt even started. I simply realised the enormity of copy and pasting all of the surahs, and thought, Nahh!

My point is that to try and compare and claim superiority by the cherry picking of verses is futile.

Its better surely to accept that
1) Women have their place and its a degree below men
2) They lie chat steal and seduce
3)They are provocative, the inhabitants of hell
4)Their word is worth less, they shall inherit less
5) They prevent prayer if they pass in front of a man, like a donkey would.
6) Yeah, all the above and much more might be "Sexist" in modern terminology. But what does that matter? It's Gods word. That surely transends silly modern human culture on equality?
 
I agree with the Airforce that both Christianity and Islam are generally sexist religions, although I do think Christianity is trying to abridge some of the overt sexism within it. Females are being given higher roles in churches, for example.

With respect. Thats cherry picking.

No! --- A *biased* thread? Really? Who'd of guessed?

It makes you think...
 
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With respect. Thats cherry picking.

I can find verses that respect and subjigate women in any book. I would challeneg you to produce a book where I can't?

Thus:Sura 4: 35, 4: 4.Sura 2:222,2:223 2:229 4: 12 4:177 4:20 4:24 4:34 4:43 4:98 4:117
I havnt even started. I simply realised the enormity of copy and pasting all of the surahs, and thought, Nahh!

My point is that to try and compare and claim superiority by the cherry picking of verses is futile.

Its better surely to accept that
1) Women have their place and its a degree below men
2) They lie chat steal and seduce
3)They are provocative, the inhabitants of hell
4)Their word is worth less, they shall inherit less
5) They prevent prayer if they pass in front of a man, like a donkey would.
6) Yeah, all the above and much more might be "Sexist" in modern terminology. But what does that matter? It's Gods word. That surely transends silly modern human culture on equality?


you find:
[SIZE=-1][Pickthal 2:222] They question thee (O Muhammad) concerning menstruation. Say: It is an illness, so let women alone at such times and go not in unto them till they are cleansed. And when they have purified themselves, then go in unto them as Allah hath enjoined upon you. Truly Allah loveth those who turn unto Him, and loveth those who have a care for cleanness.[/SIZE]
نِسَآؤُكُمْ حَرْثٌ لَّكُمْ فَأْتُواْ حَرْثَكُمْ أَنَّى شِئْتُمْ وَقَدِّمُواْ لأَنفُسِكُمْ وَاتَّقُواْ اللّهَ وَاعْلَمُواْ أَنَّكُم مُّلاَقُوهُ وَبَشِّرِ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ {223}
[SIZE=-1][Pickthal 2:223] Your women are a tilth for you (to cultivate) so go to your tilth as ye will, and send (good deeds) before you for your souls, and fear Allah, and know that ye will (one day) meet Him. Give glad tidings to believers, (O Muhammad).[/SIZE]
وَلاَ تَجْعَلُواْ اللّهَ عُرْضَةً لِّأَيْمَانِكُمْ أَن تَبَرُّواْ وَتَتَّقُواْ وَتُصْلِحُواْ بَيْنَ النَّاسِ وَاللّهُ سَمِيعٌ عَلِيمٌ {224}
[SIZE=-1][Pickthal 2:224] And make not Allah, by your oaths, a hindrance to your being righteous and observing your duty unto Him and making peace among mankind. Allah is Hearer, Knower.[/SIZE]
لاَّ يُؤَاخِذُكُمُ اللّهُ بِاللَّغْوِ فِيَ أَيْمَانِكُمْ وَلَكِن يُؤَاخِذُكُم بِمَا كَسَبَتْ قُلُوبُكُمْ وَاللّهُ غَفُورٌ حَلِيمٌ {225}
[SIZE=-1][Pickthal 2:225] Allah will not take you to task for that which is unintentional in your oaths. But He will take you to task for that which your hearts have garnered. Allah is Forgiving, Clement.[/SIZE]
لِّلَّذِينَ يُؤْلُونَ مِن نِّسَآئِهِمْ تَرَبُّصُ أَرْبَعَةِ أَشْهُرٍ فَإِنْ فَآؤُوا فَإِنَّ اللّهَ غَفُورٌ رَّحِيمٌ {226}
[SIZE=-1][Pickthal 2:226] Those who forswear their wives must wait four months; then, if they change their mind, lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.[/SIZE]
وَإِنْ عَزَمُواْ الطَّلاَقَ فَإِنَّ اللّهَ سَمِيعٌ عَلِيمٌ {227}
[SIZE=-1][Pickthal 2:227] And if they decide upon divorce (let them remember that) Allah is Hearer, Knower.[/SIZE]
وَالْمُطَلَّقَاتُ يَتَرَبَّصْنَ بِأَنفُسِهِنَّ ثَلاَثَةَ قُرُوَءٍ وَلاَ يَحِلُّ لَهُنَّ أَن يَكْتُمْنَ مَا خَلَقَ اللّهُ فِي أَرْحَامِهِنَّ إِن كُنَّ يُؤْمِنَّ بِاللّهِ وَالْيَوْمِ الآخِرِ وَبُعُولَتُهُنَّ أَحَقُّ بِرَدِّهِنَّ فِي ذَلِكَ إِنْ أَرَادُواْ إِصْلاَحًا وَلَهُنَّ مِثْلُ الَّذِي عَلَيْهِنَّ بِالْمَعْرُوفِ وَلِلرِّجَالِ عَلَيْهِنَّ دَرَجَةٌ وَاللّهُ عَزِيزٌ حَكُيمٌ {228}
[SIZE=-1][Pickthal 2:228] Women who are divorced shall wait, keeping themselves apart, three (monthly) courses. And it is not lawful for them that they should conceal that which Allah hath created in their wombs if they are believers in Allah and the Last Day. And their husbands would do better to take them back in that case if they desire a reconciliation. And they (women) have rights similar to those (of men) over them in kindness, and men are a degree above them. Allah is Mighty, Wise.[/SIZE]
الطَّلاَقُ مَرَّتَانِ فَإِمْسَاكٌ بِمَعْرُوفٍ أَوْ تَسْرِيحٌ بِإِحْسَانٍ وَلاَ يَحِلُّ لَكُمْ أَن تَأْخُذُواْ مِمَّا آتَيْتُمُوهُنَّ شَيْئًا إِلاَّ أَن يَخَافَا أَلاَّ يُقِيمَا حُدُودَ اللّهِ فَإِنْ خِفْتُمْ أَلاَّ يُقِيمَا حُدُودَ اللّهِ فَلاَ جُنَاحَ عَلَيْهِمَا فِيمَا افْتَدَتْ بِهِ تِلْكَ حُدُودُ اللّهِ فَلاَ تَعْتَدُوهَا وَمَن يَتَعَدَّ حُدُودَ اللّهِ فَأُوْلَـئِكَ هُمُ الظَّالِمُونَ {229}
[SIZE=-1][Pickthal 2:229] Divorce must be pronounced twice and then (a woman) must be retained in honour or released in kindness. And it is not lawful for you that ye take from women aught of that which ye have given them; except (in the case) when both fear that they may not be able to keep within the limits (imposed by) Allah. And if ye fear that they may not be able to keep the limits of Allah, in that case it is no sin for either of them if the woman ransom herself. These are the limits (imposed by) Allah. Transgress them not. For whoso transgresseth Allah's limits: such are wrong-doers.

to be sexist amongst others?
news to me.. perhaps I should hear better your secular opinion?..
for instance women should be raped while menstruating for in that there is equality..
or screw around during and right after a divorce so if she is pregnant there is no telling who the father is and it will make an excellent Jerry springer show.. etc etc..


pls. do us all a favor and keep your views on women to the sort of broads you frequent at hooters.. No Muslim woman is really interested in learning of your opinion!

all the best
[/SIZE]
 
I agree with the Airforce that both Christianity and Islam are generally sexist religions, although I do think Christianity is trying to abridge some of the overt sexism within it. Females are being given higher roles in churches, for example.



No! --- A *biased* thread? Really? Who'd of guessed?

It makes you think...

As long as they are not pastors or preists.
 
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I don't know enough about Christianity to comment on whether it is a sexist religion but Islam is most definitely not a sexist religion. There is no denying that men and women have innate differences, both in terms of their physiology and their psychology. Islam recognises that and assigns appropriate, complementary roles in society to both men and women which cater to the differences in their nature. I highly recommend the following regarding women in Islam:

http://www.islamicboard.com/discover-islam/26881-muslim-women.html
Women in Islam
 
Christianity is not a sexist religion. It just spells out in details the roll of a woman.

The rest of how the world veiws women is different. I hold traditional Italian values in where some who saw, would say, lets just say, less than kind words about me. But they are the liberal feminist types.

And different cultures also take a play. I have seen it on both sides. No one can deny that some of the cultures in Islam are a little harsh on women, but that does not generalize an entire religion or people.

God bless.
 
No one can deny that some of the cultures in Islam are a little harsh on women, but that does not generalize an entire religion or people.
True, but I think it would be more accurate to say some Muslim cultures rather than some of the cultures in Islam since the latter could be interpreted as meaning that oppression of women is sanctioned in Islam which is manifestly not the case.
 
Uthmān;1292429 said:
I don't know enough about Christianity to comment on whether it is a sexist religion but Islam is most definitely not a sexist religion. There is no denying that men and women have innate differences, both in terms of their physiology and their psychology. Islam recognises that and assigns appropriate, complementary roles in society to both men and women which cater to the differences in their nature. I highly recommend the following regarding women in Islam:

http://www.islamicboard.com/discover-islam/26881-muslim-women.html
Women in Islam
The problem is that different roles assigned to men and women that may cater to the needs of perhaps even the majority of all people are not suitable for all and might push back the creative potential of individuals different from the norm.
 
Let us look at how Islam and the Bible view women, and see in real Truth how terrible the women's status would be if they were living under a true Christian state that follows the Bible 100%.



1- In the Bible:

Jesus considers women as dirt that defiles men (since Jesus, the GOD, is the one who supposedly inspired the New Testament as Christians claim): Revelation 14:4 "Those are those (men) who did not defile themselves with women, for they kept themselves pure. They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They were purchased from among men and offered as first fruits to God and the Lamb."

Some Christians claim that Revelation 14:4 is referring to those sinless men who stayed away from fornication and adultery, and it is not meant at all to be degrading or insulting to women.

The verse does not say "those who did not defile themselves with fornication or adultery". Have the verse said that, then it would've included both males and females and there would be nothing to disagree about. But the verse clearly and irrefutably says: "those who did not defile themselves with women", which means (1) No females will be among those men; and (2) Women are defiling to men.

Continuing with the article...

Women are not only spiritually defiling to men as Jesus put it, but they're also physically defiling when they have their menses. Anything they touch becomes unclean: Leviticus 15:19-30 "And if a woman have an issue (her period/menses), [and] her issue in her flesh be blood, she shall be put apart seven days: and whosoever toucheth her shall be unclean until the even. And every thing that she lieth upon in her separation shall be unclean: every thing also that she sitteth upon shall be unclean. And whosoever toucheth her bed shall wash his clothes, and bathe [himself] in water, and be unclean until the even. And whosoever toucheth any thing that she sat upon shall wash his clothes, and bathe [himself] in water, and be unclean until the even. And if it [be] on [her] bed, or on any thing whereon she sitteth, when he toucheth it, he shall be unclean until the even. And if any man lie with her at all, and her flowers be upon him, he shall be unclean seven days; and all the bed whereon he lieth shall be unclean. And if a woman have an issue of her blood many days out of the time of her separation, or if it run beyond the time of her separation; all the days of the issue of her uncleanness shall be as the days of her separation: she [shall be] unclean. Every bed whereon she lieth all the days of her issue shall be unto her as the bed of her separation: and whatsoever she sitteth upon shall be unclean, as the uncleanness of her separation. And whosoever toucheth those things shall be unclean, and shall wash his clothes, and bathe [himself] in water, and be unclean until the even. But if she be cleansed of her issue, then she shall number to herself seven days, and after that she shall be clean. And on the eighth day she shall take unto her two turtles, or two young pigeons, and bring them unto the priest, to the door of the tabernacle of the congregation. And the priest shall offer the one [for] a sin offering, and the other [for] a burnt offering; and the priest shall make an atonement for her before the LORD for the issue of her uncleanness."

I think it is safe to say that Revelation 14:4 and Leviticus 15:19-30 are sister verses.

Birth of any female is a loss: Ecclesiasticus 22:3 "....and the birth of ANY daughter is a loss" (From the New Jerusalem Bible. It's a Roman Catholics Bible).

If a woman gives birth to a baby boy, then she becomes unclean for 7 days. But if she gives birth to a baby girl, then she becomes unclean for 14 days.

So in other words, the birth of any female causes double the pollution: Leviticus 12:2-5 "Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a woman have conceived seed, and born a MALE child: then she shall be unclean SEVEN DAYS; according to the days of the separation for her infirmity shall she be unclean. And in the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised. And she shall then continue in the blood of her purifying THIRTY THREE days; she shall touch no hallowed thing, nor come into the sanctuary, until the days of her purifying be fulfilled. But if she bear a FEMALE child, then she shall be unclean TWO WEEKS, as in her separation: and she shall continue in the blood of her purifying SIXTY SIX days."

I think it's safe to say that Ecclesiasticus 22:3 and Leviticus 12:2-5 are sister verses.

If a woman tries to save her husband from a beating by grabbing the other man's private parts to lift him off her husband, then both her hands must get cut off: Deuteronomy 25:11-12 "And in case men struggle together (in a fight) with one another, and the wife of the one has come near to deliver her husband out of the striking one (to save her husband), and she has thrust out her hand and grabbed hold of his private (the other man's groin), she must then get both her hands cut off, and the eyes of the men must feel no sorrow."

Fathers can sell their daughters as slave girls: Exodus 21:7-8 "And in case a man should sell his daughter as a slave girl, she will not go out in the way that the slave men go out. If she is displeasing in the eyes of her master so that he doesn't designate her as a concubine but causes her to be redeemed, he will not be entitled to sell her to a foreign people in his treacherously dealing with her."

Daughters inherit nothing when there are sons: "If a man dies and leaves no son, turn his inheritance over to his daughter. (Numbers 27:8)" So the American law of splitting everything equally is not Biblical.

Jesus himself in Revelation 14:4 considered women as dirt that defiles men. Even Jesus, the Christians' highest model, despised women in the Bible!! It is crystal clear that women in the Bible are nothing but a defiling dirt and trash to men. This is no insult to women by me. This is just simply the way the Bible views women. Ironically, Jesus confirmed this view.





2- In Islam:

So how does Islam view women then? Is it any better than the Bible? You bet it is! Let us look at what Allah Almighty said about women in the Noble Quran:

There is a great deal of good in some women: "O ye who believe! Ye are forbidden to inherit women against their will. Nor should ye treat them with harshness, that ye may take away part of the dower [money given by the husband to the wife for the marriage contract] ye have given them, except where they have been guilty of open lewdness; on the contrary live with them on a footing of kindness and equity. If ye take a dislike to them it may be that ye dislike a thing, and God brings about through it a great deal of good. (The Noble Quran, 4:19)"

Men and women were created for each others, in order to live in peace, harmony and love with each others as husbands and wives: "And among God's signs is this: He created for you mates from amongst yourselves (males as mates for females and vice versa) that you might find tranquillity and peace in them. And he has put love and kindness among you. Herein surely are signs for those who reflect. (The Noble Quran, 30:21)"

Men can not harm their wives: "...Do not retain them (i.e., your wives) to harm them...(The Noble Quran, 2:231)"

"If a wife fears cruelty or desertion on her husband's part, there is no blame on them if they arrange an amicable settlement between themselves; and such settlement is best; even though men's souls are swayed by greed. But if ye do good and practise self-restraint, God is well-acquainted with all that ye do. (The Noble Quran, 4:128)"



Prophet Muhammad Commanded Mercy and Kindness to the Wives:

There are literally 10s of Sayings of Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, where he is documented to have said:


Narrated Mu'awiyah al-Qushayri: "I went to the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) and asked him: What do you say (command) about our wives? He replied: Give them food what you have for yourself, and clothe them by which you clothe yourself, and do not beat them, and do not revile them. (Sunan Abu-Dawud, Book 11, Marriage (Kitab Al-Nikah), Number 2139)"

Righteous women are those who are loyal and obedient to their husbands: "Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all). (The Noble Quran, 4:34)"

Men can't have sex with their women during Menses, but they can sleep with them and touch them: "They ask you concerning menstruation. Say: that is an Adha (a harmful thing for a husband to have a sexual intercourse with his wife while she is having her menses), therefore keep away from women during menses and go not unto them till they have purified (from menses and have taken a bath). And when they have purified themselves, then go in unto them as Allah has ordained for you (go in unto them in any manner as long as it is in their vagina). Truly, Allah loves those who turn unto Him in repentance and loves those who purify themselves (by taking a bath and cleaning and washing thoroughly their private parts, bodies, for their prayers, etc.). (The Noble Quran, 2:222)"

Maimuna (the wife of the Holy Prophet) reported: "The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) contacted and embraced his wives over the waist-wrapper when they were menstruating. (Translation of Sahih Muslim, The Book of Menstruation (Kitab Al-Haid), Book 003, Number 0579)"

Women have equal rights for them and against them: "..and for women are rights equal to the rights against them but men have a degree over them (in the context of divorce) in what is just. (The Noble Quran, 2:228)"

The birth of a female is not a biggest tragedy and the end of the world as it is in the Bible: "When news is brought to one of them, of (the birth of) a female (child), his face darkens, and he is filled with inward grief! With shame does he hide himself from his people, Because of the bad news He has had! Shall he retain it On (sufferance and) contempt, Or bury it in the dust? Ah! what an evil (choice) They decide on? (The Noble Quran, 16:58-59)" So considering the birth of females as a bad thing is evil by itself in the Noble Quran.

Also, the Prophet peace be upon him said: Narrated AbuSa'id al-Khudri: "The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: If anyone cares for three daughters, disciplines them, marries them, and does good to them, he will go to Paradise. (Translation of Sunan abu Dawud, Book 41, General Behavior (Kitab Al-Adab), Number 5128)"

Women have the right for the highest education, unlike what some Muslim fanatics claim: Narrated Abu Musa Al-Ashari: "The Prophet said, 'He who has a slave-girl and teaches her good manners and improves her education and then manumits and marries her, will get a double reward; and any slave who observes Allah's right and his master's right will get a double reward.' (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Manumission of Slaves, Volume 3, Book 46, Number 723)"

"....Are those equal, those who know and those who do not know? It is those who are endued with understanding that receive admonition. (The Noble Quran, 39:9)"

"...Those truly fear God, among His Servants, who have knowledge: for God is Exalted in Might, Oft-Forgiving. (The Noble Quran, 35:28)"

"And among God's signs is this: He created for you mates from amongst yourselves (males as mates for females and vice versa) that you might find tranquillity and peace in them. And he has put love and kindness among you. Herein surely are signs for those who reflect. (The Noble Quran, 30:21)"


3- Conclusion:

As we clearly saw in the Bible, women are considered worthless and defiling to men. Females' birth is even considered a loss and causes double the pollution and dirt in the Bible. The mother becomes double unclean when she gives birth to a female than to a male. How much more humiliation of women do we need to see in the Bible?

And as we clearly saw in Islam, women are considered good. Allah Almighty created both men and women to live together as husbands and wives in peace, love and harmony. Also, considering the birth of females as a bad thing is evil by itself in the Noble Quran. So unlike the Bible, it is not the end of the world when females are born!

I will let you reference the Surah's you forgot....you know...the ones in which allow a husband o beat their wives, or hit them if they get out of line. I am sure you just forgot those ones or ran out of time before you could post them right?
 
With respect. Thats cherry picking.

I can find verses that respect and subjigate women in any book. I would challeneg you to produce a book where I can't?

Thus:Sura 4: 35, 4: 4.Sura 2:222,2:223 2:229 4: 12 4:177 4:20 4:24 4:34 4:43 4:98 4:117
I havnt even started. I simply realised the enormity of copy and pasting all of the surahs, and thought, Nahh!

My point is that to try and compare and claim superiority by the cherry picking of verses is futile.

Its better surely to accept that
1) Women have their place and its a degree below men
2) They lie chat steal and seduce
3)They are provocative, the inhabitants of hell
4)Their word is worth less, they shall inherit less
5) They prevent prayer if they pass in front of a man, like a donkey would.
6) Yeah, all the above and much more might be "Sexist" in modern terminology. But what does that matter? It's Gods word. That surely transends silly modern human culture on equality?

:sl:


what's up Barney? long time no here!

you have a point, but you're not viewing things with the "proper" mindset!

1) Women have their place and its a degree below me

actually, men have a degree of responsibility above women. that is actually a benefit to the women.

2) They lie chat steal and seduce

you got that from the Qur'an? [it's more kind universal...;D] j/k

3)They are provocative, the inhabitants of hell

women have less responsibilities. sometimes it makes them more irresponsible.not all, just some.

4)Their word is worth less, they shall inherit less

i've think we've been here before. i've suggested some lectures, especially this one, Muslim Women! Are they Oppressed?:

http://www.nazirakoob.com/menk/Vol1.html#Part8

as their word, woman were created from something living, ie, man. men were created from dust. men see things in a more cut and dry manner, while women have alot more mercy in their hearts and this can drive them to do things that "don't seem right to men." they are more mercy driven. therefore a woman gets to confer with other female witnesses to try to report "just the facts." it's not a bad thing.

as far as inheritance goes, let's, break down an example:

a man leave [as the kids portion] $150,000 to 2 kids, son and daughter. the daughter is single. living with the son [BECAUSE he HAS to support if she has no husband or children that are old enough to: which is SO UNFAIR to the woman, right? :p]

the son has a wife an 2 kids.

the split:

son 100,000, the daughter 50,000

to YOU, that is unfair, but let's look at the reality:

sister keeps all $50,000! it's hers to do whatever she wants because: he HAS to support if she has no husband[remember?]

the son has to support everyone, so in effect he has $20,000 to spend on each member of the family because he HAS to support them.

from HIS share:

son $20,000

wife $20,000

sister[who is the daughter] $20,000

kid1 $20,000

kid 2 $20,000

so let's revisit what the split actually breaks down to:

son: $20,000 daughter: $70,000

YOUR OPINION is that is unfair to the daughter,right?

5) They prevent prayer if they pass in front of a man, like a donkey would.

actually, anyone above puberty cuts off your Salaah.

6) Yeah, all the above and much more might be "Sexist" in modern terminology. But what does that matter? It's Gods word. That surely transends silly modern human culture on equality

isn't the sexist part that the man HAS to support the woman? for you, a woman is only equal if she is "free to obey shaytan instead of Allah"

THAT is modern human culture!

btw, it was a pleasant surprise to see you back. i know you aren't intentionally evil, just misguided. so we love you for the sake of Allah!

:wa:
 
Widows are protected in Islam from their in-laws, but are forced and not protected in the Bible's NT and OT:


We will now see how Islam protects the widows from the mistreatment of her in-laws, while the Bible forces her to be under their control and mercy.



In Islam:

Narrated Ibn Abbas: "Regarding the Divine Verse: "O you who believe! You are forbidden to inherit women against their will, and you should not treat them with harshness that you may take back part of the (Mahr) dower you have given them." (4:19)

(Before this revelation) if a man died, his relatives used to have the right to inherit his wife, and one of them could marry her if he would, or they would give her in marriage if they wished, or, if they wished, they would not give her in marriage at all, and they would be more entitled to dispose her, than her own relatives. So the above Verse was revealed in this connection. (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Prophetic Commentary on the Qur'an (Tafseer of the Prophet (pbuh)), Volume 6, Book 60, Number 103)"

So as we clearly see, Islam in Noble Verse 4:19, clearly prevents the in-laws from trying to control and abuse the widows. Before Islam, widows were basically enslaved to their in-laws. They had no control over any of their inheritance, and they were in many times married off to their former husband's brothers or relatives. Islam came and ended all of that, and lifted the status of women and gave them liberty and rights.



In the Bible's NT and OT:

The Bible has absolutely no regard for women what so ever! Polygamy is allowed in both the Old and New Testaments in the Bible. Let us look at what the Bible says about widows:

"If brothers are living together and one of them dies without a son, his widow must not marry outside the family. Her husband's brother shall take her and marry her and fulfill the duty of a brother-in-law to her. (From the NIV Bible, Deuteronomy 25:5)"

It would be nice for the widow to marry her husband's brother, especially if they had a good relationship. But what if they couldn't stand each others? Why does she have to be forced to marry him and be under her husband's family's control and mercy?

Let's not forget about how bad mother in-laws can be, especially toward the wives. The Bible clearly forces the widowed wives, who lived with or near their husbands' families, to continue living under the control and mercy of their in-laws even after their husbands' deaths. It is clear that there is no liberty and freedom of choice granted to women.
 
No one can deny that some of the cultures in Islam are a little harsh on women, but that does not generalize an entire religion or people.

Islam Honours and protects the women .The Bible culture is Harsh on women

The Wife's Submission To Her Husband According To The New Testament

The Bible teaches that a husband should have authority over his wife...

Colossians 3:18

Wives, submit to your husbands, as is fitting in the Lord.

1 Peter 3:1

Wives, in the same way be submissive to your husbands so that, if any of them do not believe the word, they may be won over without words by the behavior of their wives,


However, what kind of submission are we talking about here?...

1 Peter 3:5-6

5For this is the way the holy women of the past who put their hope in God used to make themselves beautiful. They were submissive to their own husbands, Sarah, who obeyed Abraham and called him her master. You are her daughters if you do what is right and do not give way to fear.

So aren't the women of today also supposed to follow this example and call their husbands their master?


It is good that the New Testament teaches that a wife should obey her husband but you can kind of get the impression that it takes it a little bit too far...

Ephesians 5:22-24

Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.

The wife should submit to their husbands in EVERYTHING? Isn't that a little bit too extreme? Paul is saying that the wife should submit to the husband as the Church does to Christ. Now since Christians believe that Christ is God does that mean that the wife should obey her husband as if she is obeying God and give him the same rights?

You can see a similar problem here.


In Islam there are limits when it comes to obedience to people...

Surah 4:135

O ye who believe! stand out firmly for justice, as witnesses to God, even as against yourselves, or your parents, or your kin, and whether it be (against) rich or poor: for God can best protect both. Follow not the lusts (of your hearts), lest ye swerve, and if ye distort (justice) or decline to do justice, verily God is well- acquainted with all that ye do.


So if a husband orders his wife to do something wrong she must not listen to him and obey him in EVERYTHING just like the New Testament says
 
:sl:


what's up Barney? long time no here!

you have a point, but you're not viewing things with the "proper" mindset!



actually, men have a degree of responsibility above women. that is actually a benefit to the women.



you got that from the Qur'an? [it's more kind universal...;D] j/k



women have less responsibilities. sometimes it makes them more irresponsible.not all, just some.



i've think we've been here before. i've suggested some lectures, especially this one, Muslim Women! Are they Oppressed?:

http://www.nazirakoob.com/menk/Vol1.html#Part8

as their word, woman were created from something living, ie, man. men were created from dust. men see things in a more cut and dry manner, while women have alot more mercy in their hearts and this can drive them to do things that "don't seem right to men." they are more mercy driven. therefore a woman gets to confer with other female witnesses to try to report "just the facts." it's not a bad thing.

as far as inheritance goes, let's, break down an example:

a man leave [as the kids portion] $150,000 to 2 kids, son and daughter. the daughter is single. living with the son [BECAUSE he HAS to support if she has no husband or children that are old enough to: which is SO UNFAIR to the woman, right? :p]

the son has a wife an 2 kids.

the split:

son 100,000, the daughter 50,000

to YOU, that is unfair, but let's look at the reality:

sister keeps all $50,000! it's hers to do whatever she wants because: he HAS to support if she has no husband[remember?]

the son has to support everyone, so in effect he has $20,000 to spend on each member of the family because he HAS to support them.

from HIS share:

son $20,000

wife $20,000

sister[who is the daughter] $20,000

kid1 $20,000

kid 2 $20,000

so let's revisit what the split actually breaks down to:

son: $20,000 daughter: $70,000

YOUR OPINION is that is unfair to the daughter,right?



actually, anyone above puberty cuts off your Salaah.



isn't the sexist part that the man HAS to support the woman? for you, a woman is only equal if she is "free to obey shaytan instead of Allah"

THAT is modern human culture!

btw, it was a pleasant surprise to see you back. i know you aren't intentionally evil, just misguided. so we love you for the sake of Allah!

:wa:

Heya!

Yup, its grossly sexist for a man to "have to support " women. Sexism works both ways.
For men to be "responsible for women" is sexist.

So I would agree with you on the one point and say that it supports the other!
 
Islam Honours and protects the women .The Bible culture is Harsh on women

The Wife's Submission To Her Husband According To The New Testament

The Bible teaches that a husband should have authority over his wife...

Colossians 3:18

Wives, submit to your husbands, as is fitting in the Lord.

1 Peter 3:1

Wives, in the same way be submissive to your husbands so that, if any of them do not believe the word, they may be won over without words by the behavior of their wives,


However, what kind of submission are we talking about here?...

1 Peter 3:5-6

5For this is the way the holy women of the past who put their hope in God used to make themselves beautiful. They were submissive to their own husbands, Sarah, who obeyed Abraham and called him her master. You are her daughters if you do what is right and do not give way to fear.

So aren't the women of today also supposed to follow this example and call their husbands their master?


It is good that the New Testament teaches that a wife should obey her husband but you can kind of get the impression that it takes it a little bit too far...

Ephesians 5:22-24

Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.

The wife should submit to their husbands in EVERYTHING? Isn't that a little bit too extreme? Paul is saying that the wife should submit to the husband as the Church does to Christ. Now since Christians believe that Christ is God does that mean that the wife should obey her husband as if she is obeying God and give him the same rights?

You can see a similar problem here.


In Islam there are limits when it comes to obedience to people...

Surah 4:135

O ye who believe! stand out firmly for justice, as witnesses to God, even as against yourselves, or your parents, or your kin, and whether it be (against) rich or poor: for God can best protect both. Follow not the lusts (of your hearts), lest ye swerve, and if ye distort (justice) or decline to do justice, verily God is well- acquainted with all that ye do.


So if a husband orders his wife to do something wrong she must not listen to him and obey him in EVERYTHING just like the New Testament says

Thats fine, believe what you want to:D I am not bothered by your one sidedness.

God bless.
 
Let me remind members of forum rule #9 (I know the reference by heart now):
Beef will not be tolerated in any forum. Differences in opinion are expected, but please debate respectfully. (Beef are comments made for the purpose of insulting somebody else with negative intent, looking for a negative reaction, or blatantly insulting somebody)
 
Uthmān;1292635 said:
Let me remind members of forum rule #9 (I know the reference by heart now):
Beef will not be tolerated in any forum. Differences in opinion are expected, but please debate respectfully. (Beef are comments made for the purpose of insulting somebody else with negative intent, looking for a negative reaction, or blatantly insulting somebody)

Sorry bro, I will not comment on this thread anymore.

God be with you.
 
The below is must watch for people like you who tend think that Islam oppresses women

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRs7Us-a6CU

Italianguy nor myself ever stated anywhere we believe Islam is a sexist religion. However, you seem to believe that defending Islam against claims of sexism involves attacking Christianity. It's like you've gone 'Oh yeah, we're sexist- but look at those Christians! They're far more sexist than us!'
 

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