The Marriage Thread

[Ummu Sufyaan]

The parents want their daughters to complete their degrees because they see it as a lifeline for her if the marriage should not work out. Meaning that, if they divorce then the girl has her education to fall back on to support herself.

that reason exactly. and also if they guy turns out poor or something. when a sister is married to a jerk who doesn't fear Allah and the only reason she is staying in the marriage is because she wont have a roof over her head for her or her kids (in case of a divorce), a degree and job would be plan b. i know that if i have daughter's that's the reason why i would encourage them to study.

And I think it's a very valid concern that has truth to it seeing how high of a divorce rate our communities have. At the same time though, I think it's not smart for them to wait around until past their mid-twenties for the sake of education. That actually turns off guys because they feel that the girl is too educated for them whilst they only have a bachelors and have worked to save up money to get married etc. I think it requires a balance.

with due respect i dont think the guys ego is her problem to deal with in all honesty. if the guy doesn't like her, he should go find someone else. simple.

 

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

Ive heard Sh Al-Awlaki's lecture in which he said that it is a wrong argument to say that godless societies have high divorce rates while Islamic society decreases them. He gives example from the life of Sahabaa and shows that divorce was common and not a taboo. If someone was really not compatible, it was ok to divorce. Its an acted hated by Allah (swt) but it is a permissible act. He gave examples of the wives which Umar (ra) divorced.

If marriage is not working out, its better to divorce than to suffer for the rest of life. Thats what the sahaaba did. And that is the option the dear Prophet pbuh gave to his wives.

Bottom line: We should never use the argument that low divorce rates are a characteristic of a religious society. On the contrary, the best of Muslims including the Sahaaba had high divorce rates too.

I think that's an incorrect comparison because the Companions weren't like the people today who divorce for stupid reasons...if they divorced then it was without a doubt for a proper, legitimate reason. I've heard stories today of men divorcing their wives because they can't cook or because she opened the door when someone rang the doorbell. Divorce has become a joke today.

Secondly, if one says that quoting divorce statistics is wrong, then the issue can be pointed out in other ways because it's still a very real issue. How many Muslim couples complain that their marriages are unhappy? How many Muslim couples complain that they found their spouse doing something bad? How many say that their relationship is cold and there's no more love? What is the #1 problem that local Imaams and marriage counselors say exist in the community? Unhappy marriages and divorce.

Bringing up the Companions and saying that they divorced a lot does nothing to solve the issue that our communities are filled with cases of unhappy marriages. If anything, it might serve the opposite reason and legitimize the people who divorce for dumb reasons. Of course, if a couple is truly not getting along and they've tried to work it out etc, then of course divorce is good. But it shouldn't become the go-to thing.

with due respect i dont think the guys ego is her problem to deal with in all honesty. if the guy doesn't like her, he should go find someone else. simple.

Guys can easily find another girl - but the problem is that the older a girl gets, the harder it is for her to find a spouse. Most guys want younger wives. It's a two sided issue - the girls shouldn't wait too long either and then complain that they're not married.

 

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

I just want to add again that it's not always that the girl waits for too long. I was 18 when I first thought about marriage and that was a few years ago. I feel like it's gunna get really hard for me if I have to wait any longer....: (

That's all I wana add lol.

 

[Beardo]

^(In response to brother Muraad's post above) In addition, divorces then were mutual and peaceful, which did not affect any relations between the Sahabah. Not to my knowledge, anyway. Please correct me if I am wrong.

These days, a divorce becomes low, dirty, and nasty. Needless to say, the Sahabah were cautious about their tongues. Today, we use our tongue restlessly which makes things even dirtier.

When a couple gets divorced, everyone auntie in the community has to voice her opinion on how she thinks the divorce was made and what led to it. They voice their hypothesis based off the Indian dramas. And sadly, I'm not even kidding.

 

[Beardo]

I just want to add again that it's not always that the girl waits for too long. I was 18 when I first thought about marriage and that was a few years ago. I feel like it's gunna get really hard for me if I have to wait any longer....: (

That's all I wana add lol.

Especially for females in this day and age, they should maybe not get married so young, but keep their eyes open for any potential choices. It's vital, because once you cross that age limit... It's hard to find that perfect Romeo.

 

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

^^Personally I think 21 is decent for a girl. Not too young not too old.

In my case, its hard to lookout for any potentials. I don't go to masjid (cause the guys in my family DON'T). Brothers, parents don't know of people that are practicing. So its like a serious fail for me. I don't even know of any in real life.

And there is no perfect Romeo lol.

 

[Beardo]

^^Personally I think 21 is decent for a girl. Not too young not too old.

In my case, its hard to lookout for any potentials. I don't go to masjid (cause the guys in my family DON'T). Brothers, parents don't know of people that are practicing. So its like a serious fail for me. I don't even know of any in real life.

And there is no perfect Romeo lol.

Gotta be positive about it! :shade:

Insha'Allah he'll come around soon enough. Maybe he won't throw stones at your window. Maybe your scarf won't get caught on his coat (stupid Indian dramas). But Insha'Allah, he will come around.

Ask your friends to ask their brothers/parents. :X Not all your friends, cuz you don't want rumors spreading around like wildfire, but just your close ones.

 

[CosmicPathos]

I think that's an incorrect comparison because the Companions weren't like the people today who divorce for stupid reasons...if they divorced then it was without a doubt for a proper, legitimate reason. I've heard stories today of men divorcing their wives because they can't cook or because she opened the door when someone rang the doorbell. Divorce has become a joke today.

Secondly, if one says that quoting divorce statistics is wrong, then the issue can be pointed out in other ways because it's still a very real issue. How many Muslim couples complain that their marriages are unhappy? How many Muslim couples complain that they found their spouse doing something bad? How many say that their relationship is cold and there's no more love? What is the #1 problem that local Imaams and marriage counselors say exist in the community? Unhappy marriages and divorce.

Bringing up the Companions and saying that they divorced a lot does nothing to solve the issue that our communities are filled with cases of unhappy marriages. If anything, it might serve the opposite reason and legitimize the people who divorce for dumb reasons. Of course, if a couple is truly not getting along and they've tried to work it out etc, then of course divorce is good. But it shouldn't become the go-to thing.





Guys can easily find another girl - but the problem is that the older a girl gets, the harder it is for her to find a spouse. Most guys want younger wives. It's a two sided issue - the girls shouldn't wait too long either and then complain that they're not married.

I do agree with the summary of what you have said. But we first have to define what is considered dumb and what is not. Islamically, a man can divorce his wife if she is not fulfilling his sexual needs despite all sort of counselling. Now this reason might seem "dumb" to some people, especially desi aunties, who have too many taboos in their society and spread rumor and gossip in the society by backbiting, but it is one of the important reasons, among many, for which a man marries a woman. If a man is still tempted to commit zina and look at another woman due to his wife's inability, such marriage is not fruitful and must end. In the same way, talking to a non-mehram might be a non-issue for some males but others might take it quite seriously due to gheerah and if upon constant reminders, the wife does not listen, I think the man should divorce her.

In the same way, we have to define what is happy and what is unhappy marriage? Striving to make one's marriage something from an Indian movie, then of course unhappiness will ensue.

 

[tw009]

When a couple gets divorced, everyone auntie in the community has to voice her opinion on how she thinks the divorce was made and what led to it. They voice their hypothesis based off the Indian dramas. And sadly, I'm not even kidding.

Agreed. Its very common in the Pakistani community. Almost every aunty has to know the details of the divorce and whatnot!!

 

[Ummu Sufyaan]

Guys can easily find another girl - but the problem is that the older a girl gets, the harder it is for her to find a spouse. Most guys want younger wives. It's a two sided issue - the girls shouldn't wait too long either and then complain that they're not married.

how easily he can find another girl and how a sister shouldn't complain due to her old age is completely irrelevant here. you mentioned that a guy feels that she is competing with him due to her education and thus gets put off by it and i dont see how its her problem and/or why she should accept it or why she should miss out her education because of his ego or because he feels threatened by it.

quite frankly if she was 19 or 29 not many sisters would appreciate, sallow or "move over" for a guy because he cant handle his ego being deflated due to her being educated.

how he feels, isn't her problem just like a girl wanting to work after marriage and refuses to sit at home, isn't his to deal with, either.

 

[CosmicPathos]

how easily he can find another girl and how a sister shouldn't complain due to her old age is completely irrelevant here. you mentioned that a guy feels that she is competing with him due to her education and thus gets put off by it and i dont see how its her problem and/or why she should accept it or why she should miss out her education because of his ego or because he feels threatened by it.

quite frankly if she was 19 or 29 not many sisters would appreciate, sallow or "move over" for a guy because he cant handle his ego being deflated due to her being educated.

how he feels, isn't her problem just like a girl wanting to work after marriage and refuses to sit at home, isn't his to deal with, either.

If I remember my stuff correctly, a man has the right to tell his wife to sit at home and not do any job, provided he is fulfilling his responsibilities of marriage. At least thats how it works in Islam?

 

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Gotta be positive about it! :shade:

Insha'Allah he'll come around soon enough. Maybe he won't throw stones at your window. Maybe your scarf won't get caught on his coat (stupid Indian dramas). But Insha'Allah, he will come around.

Ask your friends to ask their brothers/parents. :X Not all your friends, cuz you don't want rumors spreading around like wildfire, but just your close ones.

InshaAllah he will..and that's what my mom says to me all the time...but you need to make an effort yourself too right? Well according to her she is..Allahu Alam.

See the problem is I don't have friends I'm close with like that other than the sisters here on IB and elsewhere (paltalk!) And majority of the sisters are in the UK not US :/ That is one of the reasons I don't ask my friends, here where I am. I'm not too close to them, since they have that desi mentality a lottt... so I don't want gossip to spread :S

 

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

how easily he can find another girl and how a sister shouldn't complain due to her old age is completely irrelevant here. you mentioned that a guy feels that she is competing with him due to her education and thus gets put off by it and i dont see how its her problem and/or why she should accept it or why she should miss out her education because of his ego or because he feels threatened by it.

quite frankly if she was 19 or 29 not many sisters would appreciate, sallow or "move over" for a guy because he cant handle his ego being deflated due to her being educated.

how he feels, isn't her problem just like a girl wanting to work after marriage and refuses to sit at home, isn't his to deal with, either.

Actually, it's completely relevant here. Because education is a factor and the reality is that most guys do feel that way regardless of whether they should or should not and because it takes time. I'm not saying she shouldn't go and get a Masters or PhD, by all means I think she should, I'm just saying I don't think its a good idea that she puts of marriage for the sake getting a Masters or a PhD which she can just as well do after marriage because the longer she puts of marriage no matter what reason it is (education is just one reason of many) the harder it is for her to get married. If she wants to continue her education, she can always look for a guy who will be fine with her going to school after marriage.

 

[aadil77]

That's true. I guess it's about Yaqeen then, isn't it? Yaqeen and Tawakkul. Reliance on Allah Ta'ala. I didn't think of it like that.

Glad you've thought about it now, we use our yaqeen in Allah throughout life, everything we acheive or hope to acheive is by having that reliance that Allah with provide for us.

Obviously you have to put your effort in first to get something out, you can't completey give up and rely on Allah (well you can, but its better this way).

 

[Getoffmyback]

oufff the marriage thread is calm , did u all get married .
the marriage thread effect.

 

[Banu_Hashim]

^ Haha, I wish my brother! I like how this thread went to 15 pages in just a few days.

 

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

^^Lol ya i was thinking we're destroying thread. there was like a post every minute or so. Now it's calmed down.

 

[Ummu Sufyaan]

Actually, it's completely relevant here. Because education is a factor and the reality is that most guys do feel that way regardless of whether they should or should not and because it takes time. I'm not saying she shouldn't go and get a Masters or PhD, by all means I think she should, I'm just saying I don't think its a good idea that she puts of marriage for the sake getting a Masters or a PhD which she can just as well do after marriage because the longer she puts of marriage no matter what reason it is (education is just one reason of many) the harder it is for her to get married. If she wants to continue her education, she can always look for a guy who will be fine with her going to school after marriage.

are you intentionally twisting the argument around ^o)

 

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

are you intentionally twisting the argument around ^o)

I seem to have trouble figuring out what the argument really is. Forgive me!

 

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Marriage is such a hot topic.

Really.

lol.