Things in Islam I am curious about...

Greetings, I'd appreciate if you'd let 'supreme' on that priceless pearl!
Here it is then. Edification, for those who care, with regard to the value of the Dead Sea scrolls for Biblical studies.


I'd be curious to see if the 'dead sea scrolls' spoke of Jesus' alleged divinity.. they throw the terms around.. but question is have they actually read the contents?

The 'dead sea scrolls' are a collection of scrolls that are so named because of where they were found -- in a cave near the Dead Sea. They appear to be the product of an Essene community, and date from around 70 AD to 250 BC. The Essenes were one of many Jewish sects. They were contemporaneous to Jesus, but they don't appear to have had any significant contact with Jesus. Not surprising given that their location in the south around the Dead Sea and Jesus' ministry being mostly in the north around Galilee. Also, the Essenees appear to have been a community that withdrew from the world and didn't have much contact with any of the rest of Jewish society at the time. The Dead Sea scrolls don't speak of Jesus at all.

Supreme didn't comment on them as being a source for verifying that the Bible is correct with regard to what it says about Jesus. He spoke about them as being useful in helping to determine whether or not the Bible that we have today is corrupted:
Nevertheless, you may be interested in the Dead Sea Scrolls. They're the earliest parchments of the Bible we have, and if the Islamic claim that the Biblical texts have been corrupted are true, they we corrupted very, very early on in Church history, as the Scrolls correspond to the Biblical text we have today.

The significance has more to do with those specific Old Testament books that were found among the scrolls' collection. The allegation of corruption would be confirmed if one could show a signfiicant change in the text over a period of time. That allegation carries considerably less weight if one can show that such changes do not occur. And the Dead Sea scrolls have been able to help answer that question in the following way.

Prior to the discovery of the Dead Sea scrolls, the text which was used for the translation of the Hebrew Bible was known as the Masoretic text. The oldest copies of that text in the original Hebrew dated from about 800 AD. They did have older copies of the Septuagint (a Greek translation of the Hebrew Bible made around 200 BC), but not older Hebrew text than this one that dated from 800 AD. One problem was that there were some differences in the Septuagint and the Masoretic text. Where these differences the result of translation from Hebrew to Greek, or where they the result of poor copying of the Hebrew text over time. There was no way to know. And thus no way to know which was the better source for making translations of the Old Testament into English.

With the discovery of the Dead Sea scrolls that all changed. Among the parchments was a scroll of the prophet Isaiah that could be dated to 200 BC. This doicument would be in Hebrew, would provide a chance to observe what changes had taken place in the text in a period of time of 1000 years of copying and recopying, and it would be older even than any surviving copy of the Septuagint.

The result of making comparisons showed that the Masoretic Hebrew text that was from 800 AD and the Dead Sea scrolls Hebrew text from 200 BC had little to no significant change in them The allegations regarding corruption of the text (at least with regard to the text of Isaiah) appear to be unjustified.

Allegations regarding the deficiencies in the accuracy of the Septuagint translations appear to be more justified. As the NT church mostly spoke Greek, they showed a preference for the Greek Septuagint translations when quoting Old Testament passages in the writings that became the New Testament. Some of these, we can see today, would be more accurate if quoted from a Hebrew text, but they didn't. And so, comparisions between the Old Testament quotations in the New Testament and the original form of those quotations in the Old Testament often don't translate the same into today's English translations as translators today prefer to use the original Hebrew for translating the Old Testament and the original Greek for translating the New Testament.

In no way does the Dead Sea scrolls prove that what is in the texts is a proper representation of the nature and character of God, but it does prove the presenation the Bible actually does make with regard to God has not changed as a result of the corruption of copyists.
 
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The 'dead sea scrolls' are a collection of scrolls that are so named because of where they were found -- in a cave near the Dead Sea. They appear to be the product of an Essene community, and date from around 70 AD to 250 BC. The Essenes were one of many Jewish sects. They were contemporaneous to Jesus, but they don't appear to have had any significant contact with Jesus. Not surprising given that their location in the south around the Dead Sea and Jesus' ministry being mostly in the north around Galilee. Also, the Essenees appear to have been a community that withdrew from the world and didn't have much contact with any of the rest of Jewish society at the time.

Supreme didn't comment on them as being a source for verifying that the Bible is correct with regard to what it says about Jesus. He spoke about them as being useful in helping to determine whether or not the Bible that we have today is corrupted:
.

outside of assertions on your part would you like to post a side by side comparison of your current biblical texts to that which the dead sea scrolls evince and perhaps weave for us in a nice fashion how it is that christianity concluded the divinity of the man named Jesus is the center theme if not the only tenet of your religion!

all the best
 
I'll leave this for our muslim members who have no access to the limited manuscripts that were accumulated in the book as you see it in amazon..

 
I'll leave this for our muslim members who have no access to the limited manuscripts that were accumulated in the book as you see it in amazon..


The video of the man who said that the Dead Sea scrolls contain "word for word" every thing in the OT, is such an egregious statement that no educated individual would make (as the Qumran material doesn't even contain all of the OT texts) that it makes one wonder if that was perhaps a staged conversation for the purpose of the video. This is made even more likely as the www.venomfangxsite.com website which the YouTube video purports to refute does not appear to actually exist. As the man says at the end: "PWN ED!"

outside of assertions on your part would you like to post a side by side comparison of your current biblical texts to that which the dead sea scrolls evince and perhaps weave for us in a nice fashion how it is that christianity concluded the divinity of the man named Jesus is the center theme if not the only tenet of your religion!

all the best

See, I knew you didn't understand Christianity. The divinity of the man named Jesus is NOT the center theme, and certainly not the only tenet of our religion. If that is what you think, then you simply have yet to understand Christianity. That is one tenet, but it is not the only one, and it important as it is, it is not THE central one.

With regard to your request for a side-by-side comparison of the Dead Sea scrolls:
There isn’t any single resource which one can go to, to find the Dead Sea Scrolls in English, at least not yet. But there are some excellent resources available that translate portions of the scrolls into English. I recommend four resources. If you can get all four, you’ll have just about all of the Dead Sea Scrolls translated into English. (One of the book’s titles is a bit deceiving. The Complete Dead Sea Scrolls in English does not contain the complete Dead Seas Scrolls in English.) The four books are:

The Dead Sea Scrolls Translated: The Qumran Texts in English, by Florentino Martinez and Wilfred Watson.

The Dead Sea Scrolls Bible: The Oldest Known Bible Translated for the First Time Into English, by Martin Abegg, Peter Flint and Eugene Ulrich.

The Complete Dead Sea Scrolls in English by Nigel Andrews and Geza Vermes.

The Dead Sea Scrolls by Michael Wise, Martin Abegg and Edward Cook.


My kknowledge of the Dead Sea scrolls has not come from reading any of the above recommended books, but from 20 years of reading scholarly articles in journals such as Archeaology Review, Biblical Archaeology, and Christian History.

Now, despite my problems with the way the above video was set-up, the quote actually read from The Oxfor Companion to Archaeology is right on. I have no dispute with it at all. Nor, you will note, does it differ from any of what I said above. If you have trouble understanding how that, then I suggest a good place to begin your education on the actual nature and meaning of the Dead Sea scrolls would be with a nice lay level discussion of them that can be read for yourself online @ The Dead Sea Scrolls Unrolled.
 
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It is funny because before you said you don't your bibles since the religion is about Jesus divinity and death on the cross and redemption and all other such nonsense not about what is in books and thus you didn't care whether there were contradictions or not.. why do you contradict yourself? The problem with the new layout is I can't find your previous post which was in the christian thread to re-quote it here although I am certain you'll find the fifty thousand word verbiage to spin that around that too ..

glad you have no disputes about the oxford companion of archeology.. let's hope you can make a statement of absolution and not swallow it later when the need arises!

all the best
 
It is funny because before you said you don't your bibles since the religion is about Jesus divinity and death on the cross and redemption and all other such nonsense not about what is in books and thus you didn't care whether there were contradictions or not.. why do you contradict yourself? The problem with the new layout is I can't find your previous post which was in the christian thread to re-quote it here although I am certain you'll find the fifty thousand word verbiage to spin that around that too ..

glad you have no disputes about the oxford companion of archeology.. let's hope you can make a statement of absolution and not swallow it later when the need arises!

all the best

I think you misunderstand what scripture to a Jew or Christian means. Of course it is words in a book and those words are studied endlessly but we regard the book as a living thing in the sense that its contents transforms our lives - if its content does not do that then it is not much use, just a curiosity.

If there are contradictions then most take the view that some day they will be explained so for now they are supposed contradictions that is all. There contradiction in the Qu'ran as well, abrogation is just that but I guess you have an explanation that satisfies you but it may not satisfy everyone. I suppose half the point here is that anything can be explained or perhaps better to say explained away if you have a mind to
 
I think you misunderstand what scripture to a Jew or Christian means. Of course it is words in a book and those words are studied endlessly but we regard the book as a living thing in the sense that its contents transforms our lives - if its content does not do that then it is not much use, just a curiosity.

If there are contradictions then most take the view that some day they will be explained so for now they are supposed contradictions that is all. There contradiction in the Qu'ran as well, abrogation is just that but I guess you have an explanation that satisfies you but it may not satisfy everyone. I suppose half the point here is that anything can be explained or perhaps better to say explained away if you have a mind to

I challenge you to bring me contradictions from the Quran!

for surely as per your bible, when a book comes from God:

''1 Corinthians 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion but of peace...."

all the best
 
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Can I use this thread to ask a question I am interested in?

Woodrow wrote this post in another thread:
Thank You freethinking. Jesus(as) is a very wise and much loved Prophet. Many of us came to Islam because of his words we have read in the books of Mark, Matthew Luke and John. The beauty would be to see his original words as revealed in the original Aramaic as he said them.

I would like to know if Muslims believe that the Injil (which I understand to be Jesus' direct revelation), if it was available today, would reveal anything other, above or beyond what Muhammed revealed in the Qu'ran as we know it today.
 
Can I use this thread to ask a question I am interested in?

I would like to know if Muslims believe that the Injil (which I understand to be Jesus' direct revelation), if it was available today, would reveal anything other, above or beyond what Muhammed revealed in the Qu'ran as we know it today.

Yes, probably. Allah sent the tow messages (as we belive) : the Injil and the Quran (I'm talking about the Injil of Jesus (as) directly). These tow messages may be probably different, because they were sent in different periods of time (to consort with the change in the human culture). There must be many things that they have in common : the same god, the same prophets, the same basics. but there can be little differences to fit with the change in the human life.
We muslims consider the Qur'an as the continuation of Injil which is himself the continuation of the bible.
and if there is a difference in some secondary issue, the latest message has the priority. There shouldn't be a contradiction between these messages sent by the same God, but there can be amending.
 
I challenge you to bring me contradictions from the Quran!

Well two examples will do.

1. Every abrogated verse amounts by definition to a contradiction.
2. All quotes from Dawood. So what was man created from, blood, clay, dust, or nothing?

Recite in the name of your Lord who created - created man from clots of blood (96:2).
We created man from dry clay, from black moulded loam, and before him Satan from smokeless fire (15:26).
Jesus is like Adam in the sight of God. Her created him from dust and then said to him: 'be', and he was. (3:59).
Does man forget that We created him when he was nothing before?" (19:67 also 52:35).
He created man from a a little germ: yet he is openly contentious (16:4).

 
Well two examples will do.
1. Every abrogated verse amounts by definition to a contradiction.
2. All quotes from Dawood. So what was man created from, blood, clay, dust, or nothing?


Recite in the name of your Lord who created - created man from clots of blood (96:2).
Every man, after Adam is created from clots of blood (alaq).

We created man from dry clay, from black moulded loam, and before him Satan from smokeless fire (15:26).
Adam, the origin of human kind.

Jesus is like Adam in the sight of God. Her created him from dust and then said to him: 'be', and he was. (3:59).
Jesus is created by God like Adam (they are both created by God, that's the common thing), however the way they are created is different. This verse is meant to show that Jesus is created by God like Adam.

Does man forget that We created him when he was nothing before?" (19:67 also 52:35).
Every man, before he is created/born was nothing. Or it's about Adam the origin of all the men.

He created man from a a little germ: yet he is openly contentious (16:4).
a little germe : a sperm. Every man, after Adam, is created from it.

Now is still there confusion/contradiction for you ?

Peace & Blessing !
 
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I'll leave this for our muslim members who have no access to the limited manuscripts that were accumulated in the book as you see it in amazon..


I have just watched a few og your utube links to hear what this joker thinks and the one about how he became an "athiest" is richly ironic as it is posted by a muslim.
The joker says he was originally a born again Christian and that he tried to belive but if he Truely was a born again Christian he would already have begun to know God.
As he did not recognise this simple Truth he obviously is deluded by satan and why is he taking time to attack the Truth if he does not regard it as valid, Satan is driving this poor person
God Bless Him
 
Well two examples will do.
It would be nice if you could actually read the Quran and come up with your own as surely you must know all 'your' allegations are refuted it won't even take me two seconds to cut and paste the proper replies which even a five year old proper taught Muslim can refute.. reminds me of the time you sorted through several translations to find the one that would cater to your desired rendition in spite of what is written in original Arabic and the clear explanations in tafsir al-jalalyn and ibn kathir. Surely this is the sort of stuff you can get away with when trying to brain wash fellow christians?


1. Every abrogated verse amounts by definition to a contradiction.
How so?
2. All quotes from Dawood. So what was man created from, blood, clay, dust, or nothing?
Recite in the name of your Lord who created - created man from clots of blood (96:2).
We created man from dry clay, from black moulded loam, and before him Satan from smokeless fire (15:26).
What was Man Created from?
By : Ansar Al-'Adl
The allegation is as follows:

What was man created from? A blood clot [96:1-2], water [21:30, 24:45, 25:54], "sounding" (i.e. burned) clay [15:26], dust [3:59, 30:20, 35:11], nothing [19:67] and this is then denied in 52:35, earth [11:61], a drop of thickened fluid [16:4, 75:37]

The obvious explanation to this question is that these references describe different aspects or stages in man's creation. This has always been the understanding of such verses.

We will give a brief explanation of each verse, while presenting them in chronological order.

Most of the references refer to two different aspects of creation: Original creation and Embryological development.
Original creation
19:67 Does not man remember that We created him before, and he was nothing?
The phrase and he was nothing is the translation of the arabic wa lam yaku shay. Some confusion may have resulted because Yusuf Ali's translation renders it as out of nothing, which is not very accurate at all. The phrase literally means, and he was nothing.

Hence, this verse states that human beings were nothing, and Allah brought us into existence. This is a tremendous favour bestowed upon us, that we may be thankful to Allah swt.

This is allegedly in contradiction to the following verse:

52:35 Were they created by nothing, or were they themselves the creators?
Ibn Kathir Ad-Damishqi (d.1372CE) has explained this verse as follows in his renowned Tafsir Al-Qur'an Al-Azim:
Allah asks them, were they created without a maker or did they create themselves Neither is true. Allah is the One Who created them and brought them into existence after they were nothing.(Tafsir Ibn Kathir, Abridged, Darussalam Publishers & Distributors, 2000, vol. 9, p. 297)​
Hence, this verse is not in contradiction to the previous verse at all, after closer examination. Even if we choose to translate verse 52:35 as "Were they created from nothing..." it would also be correct as Allah swt developed the human being from previously created substances.

20:55 Thereof (the earth) We created you, and into it We shall return you, and from it We shall bring you out once again

The original creation of Adam pbuh was from the dust of the earth.

30:20 Among His Signs is this, that He created you from dust; and then,- behold, ye are men scattered (far and wide)!

This dust was then mixed with water to produce what is mentioned in the following verse:
15:26 And indeed, We created man from dried (sounding) clay of altered mud [min hama’in masnoon]

An interesting commentary on these verses has been provided here:
http://harunyahya.com/miracles_of_the_quran_p1_08.php#1

Sheikh Muhammad Mutwalli Ash-Sha`rawi also comments:
If we take dust and add water to it, it will be mud. If it is left for some time, it will turn into clay. These are simply the stages of the creation of man. Man thus comes from dust, turned into clay after the addition of water. If we scrutinize this issue, we will find out that man, in his daily life, needs earth and depends on it in so many aspects. It is this earthy soil where we grow the plants upon which we live. Thus, preserving the materials of man depends on the source from which these materials are created.


Scientists have analyzed the human body and found that it is composed of 16 substances including oxygen and manganese. These elements are no more than the elements of the earth?s crust. This experiment was not meant for proving the credibility of the Qur'an; rather, it was solely for scientific research purposes.


In addition, death itself serves as a proof of creation. When we try to demolish a building, we follow the reverse order of building it; we start with the last floor. By the same token, since we have not eye-witnessed the creation of man, then we shall see how death occurs. Actually, we witness several deaths everyday. When man dies, his soul leaves his body, then the decline starts; his body becomes dry (which is similar to the stage of clay) and then decays and turns finally into dust which was his original substance. Life is given to man through the soul that is blown into his body. When the soul departs, man dies and starts his way back to his original form going through the stages of his first creation. Thus, death stands as a living proof for creation
(SOURCE)​
21:30...We made of water every living thing. Will they not then believe?
This verse explains that all living things are composed of water.

Dr. Zakir Naik has commented on the above verse by saying:
Only after advances have been made in science, do we now know that cytoplasm, the basic substance of the cell is made up of 80% water. Modern research has also revealed that most organisms consist of 50% to 90% water and that every living entity requires water for its existence. Was it possible 14 centuries ago for any human-being to guess that every living being was made of water? Moreover would such a guess be conceivable by a human being in the deserts of Arabia where there has always been scarcity of water? (SOURCE)​
The following link also comments on this:
http://www.miraclesof*************/scientific_58.html

Embryological development

16:4 He has created man from a nutfah; and behold this same (man) becomes an open disputer!

Dr. Omar Abdul Rehman has explained this as follow:
Nutfah (The drop)

Al-Nutfah in Arabic means a drop or a small part of fluid and Nutfah in general describes a stage where the beginnings of a human being are found in this fluid (Ref: 6A, 12/6; 17/118; 19/120: 13A, 3/436: 15A, 17/116: 1C, 2/121: 7B, 3/116: 4D, 9/235-6: 5D, 6/258: 4A, 30/234: 7A, 4/336: 10A, 13/9: 12A, 4/288). Its real meaning can only be deduced from the text of Qur'an; evidently it is a comprehensive term and includes male and female gametes and part of their natural environments of fluid. It also includes zygote, morula and blastocyst till implantation in the uterus. This is illustrated by the following citation:​


"was he not a drop or part of germinal fluid (Mani) emitted or programmed" (Surah Al- Qiyama, Ayah 37)

Here "Mani" means male or female germinal fluid (Ref: 1D, 5/276: 5D, 10/348:2D, 6/2497).

The Prophet's Hadith confirms the fact that the offspring is created from part of the germinal fluids.


"Not from all the fluid is the offspring created"

(Sahih. Muslim: Kitab Al-Nekah, Bab Al-Azl)

It is also known that not all parts of the ejaculate are equally potent in the fertilisation process. "In the first portion of the ejaculate are the spermatozoa, epididymal fluids, and the secretions from the Cowper and prostate gland fluids. In the last portions of the ejaculate are the secretions of the seminal vesicles. Most spermatozoa appear in the first part of the ejaculate, which is made primarily of prostatic secretions. Thus spermatozoa in the initial portion of the ejaculate have better motility and survival than those in the later portions, which are chiefly vesicular in origin".
(SOURCE)​
And concerning the verse:
96:2 Created man, out of a (mere) clot of an Alaqah
Dr. Omar Abdul Rehman states:
The 'Alaqah stage

"Then (thumm) We made the drop into an 'Alaqah". (Surah Al-Mu 'minun, Ayah 14)

In Arabic the word ‘Alaqah in fact has several meanings;


  • [*]

    something which clings or a suspended thing (Ref: 7B, 5/440: 1D, 4/125: 2D, 4/1529: 3D, 343: 4D, 10/267: 5D, 7/20)
    [*]a leech-like structure (Ref: 9A, 3/242: 20A, 2/281: 7B, 5/139: 2D, 4/1529: 3D, 343: 4D, 10/267)
Amazingly each of these terms can be applied to the developing embryo with stunning precision. All of these terms encompassed by the word ‘Alaqah describe the appearance of the embryo as well as its relationship with the womb. From the discussion below it becomes clear that the embryo resembles a primitive multicellular organism which is attached to a host and feeding on its blood.

a) something which clings

Modern science informs us that once the egg has been fertilised in the Fallopian tube it undergoes successive divisions to form a ball like structure of 12-16 cells by the third day. This structure is called a blastocyst and it reaches the uterus in 4 to 5 days. The blastocyst then lies free in the uterine secretions for a further 2 days. About a week after fertilisation the blastocyst begins to attach and implant into the uterine wall. By the 11th to 12th day it is completely embedded in the uterine wall. At this stage chorionic villosities begin to develop like roots in the soil, these draw nourishment from the uterus necessary for the blastocyst's growth. These formations cover the whole blastocyst and make it literally cling to the uterus. By the end of the second week implantation is complete. Inside the blastocyst the embryo is anchored to the wall of the chorionic cavity by a connecting stalk. Hence, these different ways of clinging and attachment seem to represent the most dominant features from day 7 to 21, and are perfectly described in the Qur'anic description by the word ‘Alaqah. For greater detail see S. Hussain (1986) ‘Al-‘Alaq:the mystery explored, Ark Journal, London, pp. 31-36.

b) a suspended thing

The 3 week old embryo inside the blastocyst which is embedded in the uterine wall is seen to be suspended in the chorionic cavity by means of the connecting stalk and is surrounded by the amniotic cavity and the yolk sac. Therefore, the term ‘Alaqah accurately describes the suspended embryo after it has been implanted.

c) a leech-like structure

The word ‘Alaqah can also be translated as ‘leech like structure'. The leech is a elongated pear shaped creature which thrives on blood sucking. At this stage of development the embryo from top view does bear a resemblance to a leech. This resemblance is even more marked if the 24 day old embryo is seen from the side. It is also interesting to note that the embryo is now dependent on the maternal blood for its nutrition and behaves very much like a leech!. (For greater detail see Moore, KL. ‘A scientists interpretation of references to embryology in the Qur'an.' Journal of the Islamic Medical Association of US and Canada, 1986, 18:15, and Moore, KL. and Azzindani, AMA.: "The Developing Human, Clinically Orientated Embryology, With Islamic Additions". 3rd Ed., Dar Al-Qiblah and WB Saunders).

In conclusion, whichever of the above terms are used to translate the word ‘Alaqah they are all stunningly accurate descriptions of the embryo at this stage in it's development as confirmed by modern science.

There is a gap of a few days between the stages of implantation (Nutfah) and 'Alaqah and this period is clearly explained by the above Ayah:

The word "Thumm" in Arabic is a conjunction indicating a time lag and the Ayah will, therefore, mean that after some time we created the "Nutfah" into 'Alaqah.
(SOURCE)​
These explanations make it evident that each verse is describing different stages in the creation of man.

Jesus is like Adam in the sight of God. Her created him from dust and then said to him: 'be', and he was. (3:59).
How is this a contradiction? or is it because it doesn't agree with your own religion? anything on the creation of man is answered in details above and on the sister site (Load Islam) and on this very forum if you'd bothered actually read the Quran or the refutations to the alleged contradictions before hastening to search some christian or atheist site for meatless morsels to share!
Does man forget that We created him when he was nothing before?" (19:67 also 52:35).
He created man from a a little germ: yet he is openly contentious (16:4).
See the detailed reply above and let it sink in again for reiteration:19:67 Does not man remember that We created him before, and he was nothing?

The phrase and he was nothing is the translation of the arabic wa lam yaku shay. Some confusion may have resulted because Yusuf Ali's translation renders it as out of nothing, which is not very accurate at all. The phrase literally means, and he was nothing.

Hence, this verse states that human beings were nothing, and Allah brought us into existence. This is a tremendous favour bestowed upon us, that we may be thankful to Allah swt.

This is allegedly in contradiction to the following verse:

52:35 Were they created by nothing, or were they themselves the creators?
Ibn Kathir Ad-Damishqi (d.1372CE) has explained this verse as follows in his renowned Tafsir Al-Qur'an Al-Azim:
Allah asks them, were they created without a maker or did they create themselves Neither is true. Allah is the One Who created them and brought them into existence after they were nothing.(Tafsir Ibn Kathir, Abridged, Darussalam Publishers & Distributors, 2000, vol. 9, p. 297)
Hence, this verse is not in contradiction to the previous verse at all, after closer examination. Even if we choose to translate verse 52:35 as "Were they created from nothing..." it would also be correct as Allah swt developed the human being from previously created substances.


before the next patch I'd recommend you read the Quran and come up with your own if you don't wish to publicly embarrass yourself surely you must concede that we have seen it all before and if there were alleged contradictions then the billions of Muslims would have known about it before you given the Quran is recited by every practicing Muslim at least 17 times a day..

will be waiting for more..
thanks

all the best
 
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I have just watched a few og your utube links to hear what this joker thinks and the one about how he became an "athiest" is richly ironic as it is posted by a muslim.
The joker says he was originally a born again Christian and that he tried to belive but if he Truely was a born again Christian he would already have begun to know God.
As he did not recognise this simple Truth he obviously is deluded by satan and why is he taking time to attack the Truth if he does not regard it as valid, Satan is driving this poor person
God Bless Him

If there were no Islam, I don't see how anyone can be anything but an agnostic or an atheist. So I see no irony at all do you have something with which to refute what he said aside from adhoms?.. no one can possibly let sink in and understand the convoluted ideology of Christianity..in the video above he didn't speak of his atheism, he merely quoted a credible source on the validity of the dead sea scrolls as pertains to the integrity of scriptures you use as the ultimate guide to god! try to be more objective and less emotional. Your emotionality and bulk spamming and your smarmy ways makes your religion even less attractive if that is at all possible at this stage!

all the best
 
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I have something I'm curious about in Islam, and it's a bit of brain twister:

1) Islam asserts the Quran to be perfect.
2) Muslims also use the Hadith.
3) How could a perfect revelation require any supplementary texts? A perfect revelation would stand well on its own, surely? Either the Hadith is redundant or the Quran is imperfect?
 
How could a perfect revelation require any supplementary texts? A perfect revelation would stand well on its own, surely? Either the Hadith is redundant or the Quran is imperfect?

Great question !

The hadeeth (sunnah in general) serves as an explanation and as a practical application of the Qur'an. For example : Allah says "Wa aqimou a'salat", meaning : "Do the prayer the best way".
But the way how to do the prayer is explaned in Hadeeth of prophet Muhammed (s.a.w), and his sunnah.

The qu'ran is made in the best concise and eloquant way (otherwise it will be infinite, and hard to learn). And some statements in the qur'an could require explanation from hadith and sunnah.
 
an excellent book doesn't mean there is no need for the teacher!
 
Salaam/ Peace


I have something I'm curious about in Islam, and it's a bit of brain twister:

How could a perfect revelation require any supplementary texts?


God says in holy Quran that He sent Muhammed pbuh as a mercy for all. Messenger of God taught the world how to obey God and follow the right path . God told us to obey His messenger . So , when God ordered us to worship Him , Prophet pbuh taught us how to do it ; God told us to give Zakat , Prophet pbut taught us how to give it etc etc..

So , what's the problem here ?
 
Greetings,
I have something I'm curious about in Islam, and it's a bit of brain twister:

1) Islam asserts the Quran to be perfect.
2) Muslims also use the Hadith.
3) How could a perfect revelation require any supplementary texts? A perfect revelation would stand well on its own, surely? Either the Hadith is redundant or the Quran is imperfect?

The ahadith are not the only supplementary texts the Qur'an requires. Many tafsirs exist to provide further explanation, as well as seerah and other types of text. The Qur'anic literature is vast, and therefore to say that the Qur'an is perfect by itself is a very strange claim indeed.

Peace
 
perfect= of its kind and without defect or blemish (which the Quran is and more)!
 

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