Saudi Arabia & witchcraft

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i think i would prefer electric chair, or something quicker at least...

what exactly consitutes witchcraft and how do you get evidence? im sure there are plenty of people practising black magic but why single out this one?

Maybe she was unfortunate enough to get caught..

as for what constitutes 'witchcraft' let me quote you from the Noble Quran:

[FONT=VERDANA,ARIAL, HELVETICA] وَاتَّبَعُواْ مَا تَتْلُواْ الشَّيَاطِينُ عَلَى مُلْكِ سُلَيْمَانَ وَمَا كَفَرَ سُلَيْمَانُ وَلَـكِنَّ الشَّيْاطِينَ كَفَرُواْ يُعَلِّمُونَ النَّاسَ السِّحْرَ وَمَا أُنزِلَ عَلَى الْمَلَكَيْنِ بِبَابِلَ هَارُوتَ وَمَارُوتَ وَمَا يُعَلِّمَانِ مِنْ أَحَدٍ حَتَّى يَقُولاَ إِنَّمَا نَحْنُ فِتْنَةٌ فَلاَ تَكْفُرْ فَيَتَعَلَّمُونَ مِنْهُمَا مَا يُفَرِّقُونَ بِهِ بَيْنَ الْمَرْءِ وَزَوْجِهِ وَمَا هُم بِضَآرِّينَ بِهِ مِنْ أَحَدٍ إِلاَّ بِإِذْنِ اللّهِ وَيَتَعَلَّمُونَ مَا يَضُرُّهُمْ وَلاَ يَنفَعُهُمْ وَلَقَدْ عَلِمُواْ لَمَنِ اشْتَرَاهُ مَا لَهُ فِي الآخِرَةِ مِنْ خَلاَقٍ وَلَبِئْسَ مَا شَرَوْاْ بِهِ أَنفُسَهُمْ لَوْ كَانُواْ يَعْلَمُونَ {102}[/FONT]
[FONT=VERDANA,ARIAL, HELVETICA][SIZE=-1][Pickthal 2:102] And follow that which the devils falsely related against the kingdom of Solomon. Solomon disbelieved not; but the devils disbelieved, teaching mankind magic and that which was revealed to the two angels in Babel, Harut and Marut. Nor did they (the two angels) teach it to anyone till they had said: We are only a temptation, therefore disbelieve not (in the guidance of Allah). And from these two (angles) people learn that by which they cause division between man and wife; but they injure thereby no-one save by Allah's leave. And they learn that which harmeth them and profiteth them not. And surely they do know that he who trafficketh therein will have no (happy) portion in the Hereafter; and surely evil is the price for which they sell their souls, if they but knew.[/SIZE][/FONT]


so folks seek these people with intent to do harm to others.. now whether the folks they go to are extortionist or actually know some dark arts is besides the point.. the point is the intent of malice..

and Allah swt knows best

:w:
 
From what I understand the planned method of execution is beheading.

It's more efficient and cost effective. Unlike the west where it costs more to kill an inmate than to keep in jail :D
 
It's more efficient and cost effective. Unlike the west where it costs more to kill an inmate than to keep in jail :D

I suppose decapitating is more humane than burning at the stake, a very painful way to go. And there is no sadism involved just a clean kill.
 
I suppose decapitating is more humane than burning at the stake, a very painful way to go. And there is no sadism involved just a clean kill.

It depends. I believe one exampl is Mary Queen of Scots- when she was finally executed by her cousin Elizabeth I, has several blows to her head and back before the executioner finally mentioned to chop her head off. The agony she must have experienced. Although, I think the most humane method of execution is a firing squad.
 
From what I understand the planned method of execution is beheading.
Now I hope Karl will not say "Behead the witches !"

The problem is not how can people punish the witches ?, but are they really witches ?.
I read history around Witch Burning, but from some references I found there were many innocent people who became victims caused by false accusation.
 
Now I hope Karl will not say "Behead the witches !"

The problem is not how can people punish the witches ?, but are they really witches ?.
I read history around Witch Burning, but from some references I found there were many innocent people who became victims caused by false accusation.

Thats why we have Islamic Sharia to punish people in a just manner. Regarding how the evidence was gained in regards to this witch, well if you find the materials which are used for Magic, isnt that enough to show that this person possess the materials which are used for Sihr? After investigation if it is proven that she took money for separating lovers etc, what other evidence is needed? I am sure the jurists in Saudi Arabia probably seeked much more concrete evidence than I can think of before punishing her.
 
The problem is not how can people punish the witches ?, but are they really witches ?.
I read history around Witch Burning, but from some references I found there were many innocent people who became victims caused by false accusation.

Don't get me started.
The medieval witch hunts were horrendous - and remain a painful stain on the history of Christianity (as well as other religions and cultures). imsad

Even worse to think that people don't seem to have learned from that part of history, and that witch hunts still take place today in places such as Africa, India, Papua New Guinea and Saudi Arabia.

Africa

In many African societies the fear of witches drives periodic witch-hunts during which specialist witch-finders identify suspects, even today, with death by mob often the result.[23] Audrey I. Richards, in the journal Africa, relates in 1935 an instance when a new wave of witchfinders, the Bamucapi, appeared in the villages of the Bemba people.[24] They dressed in European clothing, and would summon the headman to prepare a ritual meal for the village. When the villagers arrived they would view them all in a mirror, and claimed they could identify witches with this method. These witches would then have to "yield up his horns"; i.e. give over the horn containers for curses and evil potions to the witch-finders. The bamucapi then made all drink a potion called kucapa which would cause a witch to die and swell up if he ever tried such things again. The villagers related that the witch-finders were always right because the witches they found were always the people whom the village had feared all along. The bamucapi utilised a mixture of Christian and native religious traditions to account for their powers and said that God (not specifying which God) helped them to prepare their medicine. In addition, all witches who did not attend the meal to be identified would be called to account later on by their master, who had risen from the dead, and who would force the witches by means of drums to go to the graveyard, where they would die. Richards noted that the bamucapi created the sense of danger in the villages by rounding up all the horns in the village, whether they were used for anti-witchcraft charms, potions, snuff or were indeed receptacles of black magic.

The Bemba people believed misfortunes such as wartings hauntings and famines to be just actions sanctioned by the High-God Lesa. The only agency which caused unjust harm was a witch, who had enormous powers and was hard to detect. After white rule of Africa beliefs in sorcery and witchcraft grew, possibly because of the social strain caused by new ideas, customs and laws, and also because the courts no longer allowed witches to be tried.[citation needed]

Amongst the Bantu tribes of Southern Africa, the witch smellers were responsible for detecting witches. In parts of Southern Africa several hundred people have been killed in witch hunts since 1990.[25]

Several African states, Cameroon[26], Togo for example, have reestablished witchcraft-accusations in courts. A person can be imprisoned or fined for the account of a witch-doctor.

It was reported on 21 May 2008 that in Kenya a mob had burnt to death at least 11 people accused of witchcraft.[27]

In March 2009 Amnesty International reported that up to 1,000 people in the Gambia had been abducted by government-sponsored "witch doctors" on charges of witchcraft, and taken to detention centers where they were forced to drink poisonous concoctions.[28] On May 21, 2009, The New York Times reported that the alleged witch-hunting campaign had been sparked by the Gambia's President Yahya Jammeh.[29]

In Sierra Leone, the witch-hunt is an occasion for a sermon by the kɛmamɔi (native Mende witch-finder) on social ethics : "Witchcraft ... takes hold in people’s lives when people are less than fully open-hearted. All wickedness is ultimately because people hate each other or are jealous or suspicious or afraid. These emotions and motivations cause people to act antisocially".[30] The response by the populace to the kɛmamɔi is that "they valued his work and would learn the lessons he came to teach them, about social responsibility and cooperation."[31]


India

In India, labeling a woman as a witch is a common ploy to grab land, settle scores or even to punish her for turning down sexual advances. In a majority of the cases, it is difficult for the accused woman to reach out for help and she is forced to either abandon her home and family or driven to commit suicide. Most cases are not documented because it's difficult for poor and illiterate women to travel from isolated regions to file police reports. Less than 2 percent of those accused of witch-hunting are actually convicted, according to a study by the Free Legal Aid Committee, a group that works with victims in the state of Jharkhand.[32]

A recent publicized case in India was in October 2009 when five Muslim women were brutally abused by villagers after being branded as witches by the local cleric in the remote and extremely poor Jharkhand state. The incident was only made public after a cellphone video surfaced of the event. Many national research agencies contend events such as these happen daily around the world, without any reports to the police out of fear of retribution.[33]


Papua New Guinea

Though the practice of "white" magic (such as faith healing) is legal in Papua, the 1976 Sorcery Act imposes a penalty of up to 2 years in prison for the practise of "black" magic. In 2009, the government reports that extrajudicial torture and murder of alleged witches - usually lone women - is spreading from the Highland areas to cities as villagers migrate to urban areas.[34]



Saudi Arabia


On February 16, 2008 a Saudi woman, Fawza Falih, was arrested and convicted of witchcraft and now faces imminent beheading for sorcery unless the King issues a rare pardon.[35] And on November 9, 2009, Lebanese TV presenter Ali Sibat (who was arrested in Medina in 2008) was sentenced to death on charges of witchcraft. According to Sarah Leah Whitson, the Middle East director at Human Rights Watch, "Saudi courts are sanctioning a literal witch hunt by the religious police." Also according to Human Rights Watch, two other people have been arrested on similar charges in November 2009 alone.[36]
Source
 
Don't get me started.
The medieval witch hunts were horrendous - and remain a painful stain on the history of Christianity (as well as other religions and cultures). imsad

Even worse to think that people don't seem to have learned from that part of history, and that witch hunts still take place today in places such as Africa, India, Papua New Guinea and Saudi Arabia.


Source
I am really sorry if I make you so sad, Glo. And I am really sorry if my word has offend Christian people.

I just want to say, we must take a lesson from Witch Burning history for prevent an innocent becomes a victim causes by false accusation.
 
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I am really sorry if I make you so sad, Glo. And I am really sorry if my word has offend Christian people.
That's very kind of you, ardianto. :)
But don't worry. You are not offending me.
You are speaking the truth, and the sins people have committed in the past (and present) in the name of my faith are what offends me!

I just want to say, we must take a lesson from Witch Burning history for prevent an innocent becomes a victim causes by false accusation.
Amen to that.
 
That's very kind of you, ardianto. :)
But don't worry. You are not offending me.
You are speaking the truth, and the sins people have committed in the past (and present) in the name of my faith are what offends me!


Amen to that.

Without being offensive, they had justifications right from their faith, which they claimed to be that of Christianity? Isnt thats how they viewed their faith? How can we judge, in this case regarding Christianity, what is a part of Christian faith and what is not? When each denomination has something new to say? And when the Church also changes/modifies its teachings over time. perhaps back then the Church thought that one is really being a true Christian if they hunt witches and perhaps thats why it was such a massive movement accepted by most of the faithful? Now if you say that Church was wrong then woah ... how can the source/rock on which Christianity is built can be wrong? I guess I side-tracked but I am still talking about witch hunt.
 
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Don't get me started.
The medieval witch hunts were horrendous - and remain a painful stain on the history of Christianity (as well as other religions and cultures). imsad

Even worse to think that people don't seem to have learned from that part of history, and that witch hunts still take place today in places such as Africa, India, Papua New Guinea and Saudi Arabia.

Source

Idk how the witch hunts are going in these places but the salem witch hunts and other christianity witch hunts were a joke. Apart from the original witch hunt where the pope sent out troops against those christians that actually did worship the devil and started witch hunt, these people escaped and renamed their group to what later became as the free masons. But salem witch hunt stuff was a joke, they threw you in the river to see if you were a witch. If you drowned you were innocent (how lucky you) but if you could swim and saved yourself than you are a witch and should be burned at the stake.

As for witchcraft in itself, it is real. The black magic and arts are all real. You have to do some very unholy stuff to get into it but believe its real. only way to end it is kill all those that practice it.

Is witchcraft real? Is it permissible to seek treatment from practitioners of witchcraft .

Correct ruling on one who practices magic or witchcraft .
 
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Just an observation, as I've seen this before:

On February 16, 2008 a Saudi woman, Fawza Falih, was arrested and convicted of witchcraft and now faces imminent beheading for sorcery unless the King issues a rare pardon.[35] And on November 9, 2009, Lebanese TV presenter Ali Sibat (who was arrested in Medina in 2008) was sentenced to death on charges of witchcraft. According to Sarah Leah Whitson, the Middle East director at Human Rights Watch, "Saudi courts are sanctioning a literal witch hunt by the religious police." Also according to Human Rights Watch, two other people have been arrested on similar charges in November 2009 alone.[36]

What business does Saudi Arabia have arresting someone for their actions in another country and actions that were completely legal, or acceptable (presumably) under Lebanese law? It would be like Germany arresting a non-german citizen for denying the holocaust outside their borders.
 
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lol human rights watch. Now Mr Wilcke will tell us that if someone committed consensual zina, he shouldnt be killed because "it is impossible to prove if a supernatural God (Allah) exists who would condemn such consensual sex."
Well, yes...

Why would that amuse you? The idea of arresting for 'withcraft', or for such silly things like 'sorcery' are pretty horrendous ideas. Whether or not you believe it exists or not, it cannot come across as anything other to someone in the west as a throwback to the medieval witch hunts.
 
Just an observation, as I've seen this before:



What business does Saudi Arabia have arresting someone for their actions in another country and actions that were completely legal, or acceptable (presumably) under Lebanese law? It would be like Germany arresting a non-german citizen for denying the holocaust outside their borders.

what business does Italy have persecuting an american citizen for killing a British woman?

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/12/04/italy.knox.trial/index.html
 
Meredith Kercher was murdered in Italy, with an Italian accomplise. Hardly comparable, Skye.

I guess the moral is don't commit a crime that will be shown on TV and then go to a country or live in a country that will persecute you for it!

all the best
 
Well, yes...

Why would that amuse you? The idea of arresting for 'withcraft', or for such silly things like 'sorcery' are pretty horrendous ideas. Whether or not you believe it exists or not, it cannot come across as anything other to someone in the west as a throwback to the medieval witch hunts.

Whatever Mr Wilcke says, its based on his beliefs. I have no reason to pay attention to what he says based on his beliefs.
 
Whatever Mr Wilcke says, its based on his beliefs. I have no reason to pay attention to what he says based on his beliefs.

Almost everything everyone says on ethical or social matters are all entirely based on their beliefs. It cannot be based on anything else.
 
Almost everything everyone says on ethical or social matters are all entirely based on their beliefs. It cannot be based on anything else.

Well then there you go. he shouldnt be interfering in what people in Saudi Arabia believe in. Its none of his matters.
 
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