Love the sinner hate the sin?

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aadil77 said:
I don't think the 'love everybody' mentality works in islam, like you said we are taught alot more wisdom, we'll deal with everyone with respect and justice but it doesn't mean we have to love them. Love is a very strong emotion, not everyone deserves it.
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This part of your post made me instantly think about the various forms of love. I was thinking of some examples that go along with this topic..... for example, if a parent punishes a naughty child, the parent does so out of a love for that child, not out of an anger or hatred. Likewise when God punishes us it is because he loves us and wants the best for us in our lives. When I think of loving the sinner and not the sin, these are the things I think about. As an individual, we love the person and show them God's love through us, but we do not accept the sin. This does not mean we must bring them into our home, nor dine with them, nor anything. It is not condoning the sin, but it is a recognizing of the sinner as a human being-- and we have all sinned and are all sinners. None of us is perfect and all are in need of God's mercy. We all have different struggles in life. Some are certainly worse than others. Each of us will have to one day stand before God and give account of all of our sins.

Anyhow, those are some of my thoughts on love and on loving the sinner and not the sin.

I have a question.... in Arabic how many forms of "love" are there and how is it defined? Or in Urdu even, since many of the forum members speak that. I know that in English "love" is often loosely thrown around to mean MANY things. I do it as well. "I absolutely LOOOOOOOVE eating lobster!" But it is not a romantic love, nor even a godly love, nor even a love that I might have for a child, etc. So, in English we have this ONE word "love" that means so many different things and is often confused by individuals with other emotions. In Greek there are many words for love and each word indicating a different form of love. When I studied Spanish it was taught that you can not "love" a thing. Love could only be for a person. So in Spanish it would never be proper to express "love" for a food. Anyhow, not trying to derail the topic, but since the words "love" are central to the topic I was curious about in what ways "love" is used in these languages. I think often the way we interpret words can be also part of why we all have differing views on things.

Thanks for reading my ramblings..... :)
 
PouringRain said:
Likewise when God punishes us it is because he loves us and wants the best for us in our lives. When I think of loving the sinner and not the sin, these are the things I think about.
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Thank you for sharing that.
I think you are right. Love and punishment are not necessarily mutually exclusive!

A mother who turns her drug-addicted son over to the police, may well do so out of love.

As an individual, we love the person and show them God's love through us, but we do not accept the sin. This does not mean we must bring them into our home, nor dine with them, nor anything. It is not condoning the sin, but it is a recognizing of the sinner as a human being-- and we have all sinned and are all sinners. None of us is perfect and all are in need of God's mercy. We all have different struggles in life. Some are certainly worse than others. Each of us will have to one day stand before God and give account of all of our sins.
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That's beautiful! :statisfie

It reminds me of Jesus' commandment to not judge others.
It is all so easy to point the finger at the sins and failings of others, rather than scrutinising our own hearts, actions and intentions ... :hmm:

Thanks for reading my ramblings..... :)
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I can only speak for myself - but I for one and enjoying 'your ramblings'. :)
Very interesting thread!
 
glo said:
Yes, I have always wondered about Pharaoh, and about how he seemed to be destined by God to be the bad guy in the plot. The Bible mentions several time God stating that he would 'harden Pharaoh's heart'.

I cannot recall the Bible mentioning that Pharaoh repented and submitted to God when he was drowning, and that God did not have mercy on him. Does the Qu'ran say so specifically?

I hope and pray that God's love and forgiveness is greater than our human hearts and minds can comprehend ...
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This is what the Quran says

And We took the children of Israel across the sea, and Pharaoh with his hosts followed them in oppression and enmity, till when drowning overtook him, he said: "I believe that La ilaha illa huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but) He, in whom the children of Israel believe, and I am one of the Muslims (those who submit to Allah's Will)."

Now (you believe) while you refused to believe before and you were one of the mufsideen (evildoers, corrupts, etc.). So this day We shall deliver your dead body out from the sea that you maybe a sign to those who come after you! And verily, many among mankind are heedless or our Ayah (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.). (10:90-92 Quran)


Actually I'm not sure, its not clear from the verses, hmm.....

One thing amazing is that the body is still preserved to go and see
 
PouringRain said:
This part of your post made me instantly think about the various forms of love. I was thinking of some examples that go along with this topic..... for example, if a parent punishes a naughty child, the parent does so out of a love for that child, not out of an anger or hatred. Likewise when God punishes us it is because he loves us and wants the best for us in our lives. When I think of loving the sinner and not the sin, these are the things I think about. As an individual, we love the person and show them God's love through us, but we do not accept the sin. This does not mean we must bring them into our home, nor dine with them, nor anything. It is not condoning the sin, but it is a recognizing of the sinner as a human being-- and we have all sinned and are all sinners. None of us is perfect and all are in need of God's mercy. We all have different struggles in life. Some are certainly worse than others. Each of us will have to one day stand before God and give account of all of our sins.

Anyhow, those are some of my thoughts on love and on loving the sinner and not the sin.

I have a question.... in Arabic how many forms of "love" are there and how is it defined? Or in Urdu even, since many of the forum members speak that. I know that in English "love" is often loosely thrown around to mean MANY things. I do it as well. "I absolutely LOOOOOOOVE eating lobster!" But it is not a romantic love, nor even a godly love, nor even a love that I might have for a child, etc. So, in English we have this ONE word "love" that means so many different things and is often confused by individuals with other emotions. In Greek there are many words for love and each word indicating a different form of love. When I studied Spanish it was taught that you can not "love" a thing. Love could only be for a person. So in Spanish it would never be proper to express "love" for a food. Anyhow, not trying to derail the topic, but since the words "love" are central to the topic I was curious about in what ways "love" is used in these languages. I think often the way we interpret words can be also part of why we all have differing views on things.

Thanks for reading my ramblings..... :)
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The thing is for your example of god punishing us because he loves us, I can agree with this but I can't apply it to everyone including non-muslims. We believe that Allah punishes us in this world out of His Mercy as it acts as an expeation of the sin we originally commited.

We don't believe that disbelievers can attain forgiveness as it wouldn't make sense.

'As an individual, we love the person and show them God's love through us, but we do not accept the sin. This does not mean we must bring them into our home, nor dine with them, nor anything. It is not condoning the sin, but it is a recognizing of the sinner as a human being-- and we have all sinned and are all sinners.'

Regarding this statement, again I do think christians throw around the word love, I don't understand why as it clearly contradicts with your beliefs, I think its used to promote the religion more than reflect the true teachings of christianity. Love is a very strong emotion like I said, I don't believe that you or any christian on this planet truly loves everyone - its not possible. You can't even like every person on this planet, I'm sure you don't like hitler let alone love him.

Yes we are all sinners, we all commit minor sins but we do have control over major sins, such as the massacre of millions of innocent people
 
glo said:
Another interesting question might be whether God 'loves the sinner, but hates the sin'?

Does God (according to Islam) not show mercy and forgiveness, even when people don't deserve it?
Does that mean he loves us, even when we fall, fail and let him down?
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What God in his benevolent will seeks to do to saints and sinners alike is in his own divine wisdom.. we should stop acting like we're God, feign to understand what God wants, or believe that God tells us to make tea and kill Muslims .. in the immortal words of Helen Keller ''
I do not want the peace which passeth understanding!

certainly when kaffirs commit crimes against Muslims, they should be hated along with their deeds.. for their deeds echo the hatred hidden in their hearts even if they feign love and mercy on the outside.. certainly actions speak much louder than words!
 
I do not think Muslims can love the sinner and just hate the sin. Sure we can expect the sinner to accept Islam and hence become good but before that, its doubtful that he should be loved especially if he is actively rejecting Allah after being given the truth.

@ Skavaou: Yes, we (I?) hate all atheist kaafirs for rejecting God.
 
this isnt an Islamic perspective or anything...

i dont think anyone should love a solider who butchers up their brothers and sisters.

for those non-Muslims who aren't at war with you, or insult Islam, etc treat them kindly and justfully when they treat you likewise and/or haven't done anything to earn being treated unjustfully, etc.
 
mad_scientist said:
I do not think Muslims can love the sinner and just hate the sin. Sure we can expect the sinner to accept Islam and hence become good but before that, its doubtful that he should be loved especially if he is actively rejecting Allah after being given the truth.

@ Skavaou: Yes, we (I?) hate all atheist kaafirs for rejecting God.
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Hello; your friendly neighbourhood atheist here.

So - you claim to hate me. Very well then; how does that hate translate into action? That is, how do you act differently towards atheists compared to how you act towards non-Muslim theists (such as Christians or Hindus), or towards Muslims?


Thank you for your time,
--
DataPacRat
lu .iacu'i ma krinu lo du'u .ei mi krici la'e di'u li'u traji lo ka vajni fo lo preti
 

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