Your Opinion on Israel

[Fishman]

Not the USA or any European nation, let China have it and become the world's new bad guy.

Or Fishman! And I will add Iraq, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Turkey, Cyprus, Greece, Egypt, Italy and just about every other state in the general area as well! Long live New Rome... :Evil:

 

[Ummu Sufyaan]

The Arabs of Ramleh gave us an amusing incident yesterday which reflects their attitude towards us. A large batch of Turkish prisoners were being marched through the village, but they were not preceded by their british Guard. The Arabs, thinking this was the return of the Turkish army, turned out in force, yelling with delight and flying the Turkish flag.

Middle East Diary Page 7

The words Syria and Syrian are foriegn terms. Unless he had learnt English or french, the inhabitant of these parts has no words to describe all his country...... "Sham" is Arabic for the town of Damascus, An allepine always calls himself an Alepine, A beyrouti always calls himself a Beyrouti, and so down to the smallest villages, this verbal poverty indicates a political condition. There is no national feeling.

Secret despatches, pp. 77-78

(P.S The word "Sham" as described in the English Dictionary:

noun, adjective, verb, shammed, shamming.
–noun 1. something that is not what it purports to be; a spurious imitation; fraud or hoax.
2. a person who shams; shammer.
3. a cover or the like for giving a thing a different outward appearance: a pillow sham.
–adjective 4. pretended; counterfeit; feigned: sham attacks; a sham Gothic façade.
5. designed, made, or used as a sham.
–verb (used with object) 6. to produce an imitation of.
7. to assume the appearance of; pretend to have: to sham illness.
–verb (used without object) 8. to make a false show of something; pretend.

This word originates to the British & Arab history in the making of the "Shambolic Arab revolt)!!!!!!!!

The Emir Faisal I, Son of Hussien, Sherif of Mecca who initiated the Arab revolt (The Sham), briefly King of Syria (Syria nbeing given to him by the British) and later King of Iraq (Again given to him by the British) signed a treaty with Dr Chaim Weizmann in Feb 1919. In this treaty they outlined the relations between "The Arab states and Palestine" there was no mention of mutual recognition

As an Arab state was to arise as promised (by the British), it was equally promised (by the british) of a Palestine Jewish state.

Before signing the 1919 treaty Emir Faisal told Reuters agency:

"The Arabs are not jealuos of Zionist Jews and intend to give them fair play. and the Zionist jews have assured the nationalist Arabs on their intention to see that they too have fair play in their repective area."

London Times, December 12, 1918

What was the Zionist area, please someone tell me!

"The Arab State & Palestine in all their relations and undertakings shall be controlled by the most cordial goodwill and understanding and to this end Arab & Jewish duly accredited agents shall establish and maintain in the respective territories.

In the Establishment of the constitution & Administration of Palestine all such measures shall be adopted as will afford the fullest guarantees for carrying into effect the Bristish Governments (Balfour) decleration of 2nd November 1917. All necessary measures shall be undertaken to encourage and stimulate immigration of Jews into Palestine on a large scale and as quickly as possible to settle Jewish immigrants upon the land"

Signed as a bonding agreement to the Balfour treaty in Arabic by Emir Faisal.

i dont get the point of this quite frankly.

what a bunch of hypocrisy! i mean you turn around and speak of this "pro Zionist state," from the Arabs, yet turn around and forget that the orthodox Jews agree that Israel shouldn’t exist. oh please!

and secondly (if it even is true) Just because some Arab said something, doesn’t make it legitimate! that comment goes IF even the emirs words aren’t taken out of contexts, is the usual habit of the enemies of Islam!

oh and lastly, it’s the Arab revolt. You’ve just stuck “shambolic words” to support your idiotic claims!

type in “shambolic Arab revolt” in Google, and come back and tell me what the results are

hence, i conclude: the only thing that is a sham around here, are your pathetic attempts of justifying a Jewish/Zionist state. :rollseyes
*tut*

 

[Gabriel Ibn Yus]

Collective memories seem to live forever.

LOL. Collective memories are very short lived. In fact, if
we would keep track of all the traumas we went through
we would never be able to bare it.

the only solution is a very strong third party taking control of both sides and forcing peace upon all. Not the USA or any European nation, let China have it and become the world's new bad guy.

That's a good idea - but the only third party I can think of is the people themselves taking control of the bureaucratic systems on both sides - which in the end of the day this is what's making the problem to begin with.

Israel, America, Palestinian Authority, Hamas - these are not people - these are systems, bureaucratic systems. Until people won't learn to control their systems - the world will have no peace.

We must stop making accountant counts on who did this to that and when - this is bureaucracy - we must rehabilitate ourselves from this thing - and start solving these types of problems - this of course assuming that
we do indeed want to solve them - which is possible.

The real problem today is that 90% of the people make a living out of bureaucracy and 70% of bureaucracy is about making war with other people and making other people miserable - therefore making war against bureaucracy, or at least suggesting to turn to a more mature view of it, is a direct threat (or at least seems to be a direct threat) to almost everybody around - thus - having peace is simply scary for most people - add to it the fact that most people who are in position of power are generally weak - and hence easy to scare - and you get a hang of why the situation is the way it is.

Thus - it has to be a collective decision of everybody to solve the conflicts - and not to wait for a miracle - as the conflicts are directly related to everybody.

 

[marwen]

oh ! a sleeping topic is waked up again !

When it comes to Israel my opinion is clear : Israel was a mistake and they should not keep the mistake living more longer. Israel should not exist because it's a lie, so it should leave the middle east asap. That's the fair solution (not the cowardly solution).
When a property is agressed and stolen, then it will be foolish to speak about PEACE. Peace cannot exist until the human rights are preserved.
Israel government should get out. And israeli-jewish people should leave as well, but can stay under the original Palestinian gvmt, until they find a new destination : like they have come, they should go.
One day muslims will have enough power and determination to make this true. In the meanwhile, Israel can enjoy its stay.

 

[Gabriel Ibn Yus]

oh ! a sleeping topic is waked up again !

When it comes to Israel my opinion is clear : Israel was a mistake and they should not keep the mistake living more longer. Israel should not exist because it's a lie, so it should leave the middle east asap. That's the fair solution (not the cowardly solution).
When a property is agressed and stolen, then it will be foolish to speak about PEACE. Peace cannot exist until the human rights are preserved.
Israel government should get out. And israeli-jewish people should leave as well, but can stay under the original Palestinian gvmt, until they find a new destination : like they have come, they should go.
One day muslims will have enough power and determination to make this true. In the meanwhile, Israel can enjoy its stay.

Nothing that happens is a mistake.

 

[marwen]

Nothing that happens is a mistake.

yes, but when jews founded Israel they know it's wrong. So it's a jewish mistake. But from the big picture, it's qadaru Allah, that has to happen. People can do wrong things, without denying the Qadha2 and Qadar.
When someone killed a person (without reason), it is a mistake of that person. But universally, it was qadaru Allah. But that person should be punished because it has the option to not do the mistake.

 

[Gabriel Ibn Yus]

yes, but when jews founded Israel they know it's wrong. So it's a jewish mistake. But from the big picture, it's qadaru Allah, that has to happen. People can do wrong things, without denying the Qadha2 and Qadar.
When someone killed a person (without reason), it is a mistake of that person. But universally, it was qadaru Allah. But that person should be punished because it has the option to not do the mistake.

The people who live there today were born there and hardly know that they are wrong.

How can you solve this problem without hurting innocent people?

In my view we have to see it as qadaru and as an opportunity for Muslims all over the world to unite over this painful problem and solve it - if one thinks of it in these term one can even view it as a very important and meaningful qadaru in Islam and showing its true power - which is belief.

 

[marwen]

The people who live there today were born there and hardly know that they are wrong.

How can you solve this problem without hurting innocent people?

I understand what you mean Gabriel, but I'm not sure if you can call them innocent people, they know what's going on and they don't try to correct the situation.

In my view we have to see it as qadaru and as an opportunity for Muslims all over the world to unite over this painful problem and solve it - if one thinks of it in these term one can even view it as a very important and meaningful qadaru in Islam and showing its true power - which is belief.

I agree with you considering this as qadar and an opportunity to unify muslims. But that's said, we should not see our muslim brothers killed, and muslim lands stolen and stay without making effort to retrieve our rights, that makes us a bunch of fearful people who can't defend their right, and so we will be punished by Allah if we don't act.

 

[Pygoscelis]

Israel should not have been created, and it was a very stupid and obvious error. All of the conflict that followed should have been obvious. But now that Israel is there, and so well entrenched, with nuclear weapons to boot, it isn't going anywhere and those who wish it would are living a fantasy. Now that some generations have passed an most Israelis were born there (correct me if thats wrong) I also don't think displacing those who now live in Israel would fix anything anyway, but only make things worse (you'd have 2 groups of displaced people).

 

[Gabriel Ibn Yus]

Israel should not have been created, and it was a very stupid and obvious error. All of the conflict that followed should have been obvious. But now that Israel is there, and so well entrenched, with nuclear weapons to boot, it isn't going anywhere and those who wish it would are living a fantasy. Now that some generations have passed an most Israelis were born there (correct me if thats wrong) I also don't think displacing those who now live in Israel would fix anything anyway, but only make things worse (you'd have 2 groups of displaced people).

Its very easy to speak about events involving million of people from all around the world as mistakes. Most people canno't even solve the mistakes in their own private lives - so passing criticism on events on such big scales without proposing a solution seems to me at best useless.

 

[Gabriel Ibn Yus]

I understand what you mean Gabriel, but I'm not sure if you can call them innocent people, they know what's going on and they don't try to correct the situation.

I do not think they are all innocent - some of them are actively engaged in horrible things and some of them give their active or silent consent to these things. But as in any society - this is just a part of it. It's like defusing a bomb - one has to be very careful not to pull the wrong wire because otherwise we would hurt people and this is the worst.

One has to find a solution which would be fair for everybody.

agree with you considering this as qadar and an opportunity to unify muslims. But that's said, we should not see our muslim brothers killed, and muslim lands stolen and stay without making effort to retrieve our rights, that makes us a bunch of fearful people who can't defend their right, and so we will be punished by Allah if we don't act.

No, of course not! But we should go against it in efficient ways. Otherwise we would be stuck in an endless cycle of bloodshed.

 

[Woodrow]

What should happen with the millions of jewish inhabitants if that happens according to you?

Total population of Israel is approximately 7,503,800 inhabitants as of December 2009. 75.4% of them were Jewish (about 5,660,700 individuals), Not that big of a population especially when you consider nearly an equal number live in the USA a large percentage in the New York area. Only about 8% of the total Jewish population of Israel are Haredi (Orthodox Jews). Do not recognize the occupation by the 92% that call themselves Jews but do not follow Judaism and that will only leave about 400,000 to send back to New York. The 92% atheists who are calling them selves Jews can live in Palestine as Dhimmi as long as they behave and follow Sharia.

 

[Gabriel Ibn Yus]

Total population of Israel is approximately 7,503,800 inhabitants as of December 2009. 75.4% of them were Jewish (about 5,660,700 individuals), Not that big of a population especially when you consider nearly an equal number live in the USA a large percentage in the New York area. Only about 8% of the total Jewish population of Israel are Haredi (Orthodox Jews). Do not recognize the occupation by the 92% that call themselves Jews but do not follow Judaism and that will only leave about 400,000 to send back to New York. The 92% atheists who are calling them selves Jews can live in Palestine as Dhimmi as long as they behave and follow Sharia.

Ahhm. Actually - I think that you are throwing out the wrong group. The Orthodox are rather the ones who should stay in and the non-believers should be out - for the simple reason that the Orthodox Jews are much closer to Muslims than non-believers (even that they are a bigger group).

 

[Woodrow]

Ahhm. Actually - I think that you are throwing out the wrong group. The Orthodox are rather the ones who should stay in and the non-believers should be out - for the simple reason that the Orthodox Jews are much closer to Muslims than non-believers (even that they are a bigger group).

I was kind of enjoying the thought of the Zionists living as dhimmi under a Palestinian Government, Palestinians that have been persecuted for 60 years.

But, you are correct. History has shown that Muslims and Orthodox Jews can live side by side in Peace.

 

[Gabriel Ibn Yus]

I was kind of enjoying the thought of the Zionists living as dhimmi under a Palestinian Government, Palestinians that have been persecuted for 60 years.

Why? Just worthless headache. Zionists are by definition non-believers and this is a headache as these people are usually very confused and make a lot of problems

About Muslims and Orthodox Jews - In history, if one looks genuinely, one sees that when the differences where not systematically highlighted - they were not very big. However, the orthodox Jews do have their problems.

 

[Supreme]

My thoughts on the matter? I'm neither a Zionist or an anti Zionist. When I go to the Holy Land in the next few years, I won't mind whether the head of state prays to Allah or Jehovah. I won't care whether the citizens look to the Torah or the Quran for guidance.

Don't get me wrong, what the Israelis have done in the past is wrong- but then, every nation has an ugly history. Every nation has skeletons in the closet on how it came into existence. The British should not have let the Israelis have the land. The British should have kept it how it was- British. The Palestinians and Jews in the Holy Land should still be taking orders from the non-Jews and non-Arabs in London, and there would peace and prosperity.

 

[Gabriel Ibn Yus]

My thoughts on the matter? I'm neither a Zionist or an anti Zionist. When I go to the Holy Land in the next few years, I won't mind whether the head of state prays to Allah or Jehovah. I won't care whether the citizens look to the Torah or the Quran for guidance.

Don't get me wrong, what the Israelis have done in the past is wrong- but then, every nation has an ugly history. Every nation has skelentons in the closet on how it came into existence. The British should not have let the Israelis have the land. The British should have kept it was- British. The Palestinians and Jews in the Holy Land would still be taking orders from the non-Jews and non-Arabs at Whitehall, and there would peace and prosperity.

1. The real question which makes this story complicated is not how you pray but - if you pray.

2. Judaism is a religion.

3. Israel is a nation.

The confusion between (2) and (3) leads to a very unhealthy situation for everybody. Some people (not only in a specific geographic domain) think that they can make some petty profit from sustaining this confusion - this is
a weird idea.

 

[Pygoscelis]

Its very easy to speak about events involving million of people from all around the world as mistakes. Most people canno't even solve the mistakes in their own private lives - so passing criticism on events on such big scales without proposing a solution seems to me at best useless.

You would not like my solution.

 

[nousername]

I have a disappointed, sadened opinion of them that they are creating/created an apartheid state and for the country that has I quote "the most moral army " they sure have a way to show their morality by using white phosphorous, denying aid ships coming to Gaza, etc.

 

[Gabriel Ibn Yus]

You would not like my solution.

How do you know?

What's your solution?

(I would like any solution that solves this problem in a fair way)