Do you want democracy in muslim countries or shariah law?

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Democracy or Shariah Law?

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Supreme said:
May you give me a textbook definition of Sharia? May you also point out to me what Saudi Arabia/Iran other countries are doing wrong to practise 'incomplete' Sharia? Thanks.
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It is actually quite difficult to find a simple text book description of Sharia. For the Judicial system to operate correctly the judges have to have a very high level of experience and education in Islamic Jurisprudence. There is specific procedures for selecting a Qazi (Judge)

Historically the Islamic Judge (Qazi) was a legal secretary appointed by the provincial governors. Each Islamic nation may differ slightly in how the judges are selected. Some nations will use a formal process of legal education and internship in a lower court. For example, in Saudi Arabia there are two levels of courts. The formal Shariah Courts which were established in 1928 hear traditional cases. The Saudi government established a ministry of justice in 1970, and they added administrative tribunals for traffic laws, business and commerce. "All judges are accountable to God in their decisions and practices" (Lippman, p.66-68).
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SOURCE

Saudi may have the closest thing to Sharia, but I feel they fall short as the law does not seem to be applied fairly to all Saudi residents.

I find that the other 56 countries that claim to have Sharia miss the boat in the way the Qazi are selected. In some of the alleged Sharia nation due process before a Qazi is ignored.
 
At the very beginning, democracy was developped by philosophers. Some of them thought that democracy was the best society. In practice, we see everyday that this system can't work. We, muslims, have a system and we know that it works ! So why prefer a society which doesn't work as an islamic system.

If non-muslims say : "But look at islamic countries, there is inegality, and many bad things..." we can answer that muslim countries are like that because they DON'T want to applicate shariah

Look at `Umar ibn al-Khattab, Abu Bakr, `Uthman, `Ali !
And also `Umar ibn `abd al-`Aziz, before him the muslim empire was devastated and when he became Khalif and began to applicate shariah (intelligently, of course) the empire shined again

PS : I apologize for my bad english but as i said, i'm from France =)
 
As strange as it sounds Sharia is much closer to ideal democracy then what is called Democracy by Western Nations. True Democracy does not exist. Every attempt to implement it has become corrupted almost as fast as it was adopted. Shariah gives the fairness promised by democracy, without hiding it behind a false sense of Freedom of Choice.
 
Woodrow said:
As strange as it sounds Sharia is much closer to ideal democracy then what is called Democracy by Western Nations. True Democracy does not exist. Every attempt to implement it has become corrupted almost as fast as it was adopted. Shariah gives the fairness promised by democracy, without hiding it behind a false sense of Freedom of Choice.
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Well said!

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democracy is the need of the world community which are not on Islam. Islam is its own Principals and these Principals are much better than any economic Principals. Therefore, I think we may abide by the Principal of Shariah law.
 
As strange as it sounds Sharia is much closer to ideal democracy then what is called Democracy by Western Nations
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Sharia is much like the original implementation of the United States Constitution. Except that in the US only white males could vote, under Sharia only Muslims would truly have power. Any time you limit the distribution of power like that you have abuses. It is inevitable.
 
I am not too sure if we can call the Sharia proper a form of a democracy. Was not that the view of Benazir Bhutto? if you read her book which she wrote before her death, that is exactly what she believed in.

Prophet pbuh asked his companions and consulted them because at that time Islamic laws were being revealed. I am not too sure if we can allow a fallible human ruler Caliph these days to consult his countrymen to determine what is Islamic and what is not?

For example, a truly democratic system would mean that the "Caliph" ask his citizens what are the views on abortion! Islam clearly reprehends abortion except for emergency needs. Many countrymen of this Sharia country might support abortion for leisure! But the fact that their desires cannot be voted means that this Sharia is not a democratic process.

I think we should stop "buttering" the Sharia by saying its truly democratic. I believe it is not. It is more of a dictatorial rule in which rules are dictated from Quran and Sunnah. Any opposition to those rules, no matter if 99% of the citizens do that, will be punishable!

Saudi Arabia is doing a good job of levying out Capital punishments. All punishments are given after a proper judicial process. The only issue is of Saudi wealthy and influential citizens who might buy their way out, that happens rarely. I've seen rich and influential Saudis get their heads chopped off ...
 
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Things such as driving could have sorted out democratic way.

Saudi Arabia is not following proper Sharia law. You talk about these few rich and influential men heads being chopped off. But compared too much more getting away with anything they want.

How many people do they kill in Saudi? How many killed without proof?

My uncle was born in Saudi Arabia, aged 31 he still can’t get citizenship. If he loses his job today, they will send him back to his "country" despite being born in Saudi and have to live there all his life. Even now, when they supposedly changed the rules, he still can’t get it.

Saudi may be the only country close to Sharia law but the corrupt government is disgrace toward the ummah.

And the prophet Mohammed peace be upon him may have took the ruling from the Quran and did he ignore people opinions at that time? I want to answer to this question.
 
sweet106 said:
Things such as driving could have sorted out democratic way.

Saudi Arabia is not following proper Sharia law. You talk about these few rich and influential men heads being chopped off. But compared too much more getting away with anything they want.

How many people do they kill in Saudi? How many killed without proof?

My uncle was born in Saudi Arabia, aged 31 he still can’t get citizenship. If he loses his job today, they will send him back to his "country" despite being born in Saudi and have to live there all his life. Even now, when they supposedly changed the rules, he still can’t get it.

Saudi may be the only country close to Sharia law but the corrupt government is disgrace toward the ummah.

And the prophet Mohammed peace be upon him may have took the ruling from the Quran and did he ignore people opinions at that time? I want to answer to this question.
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I am not too sure what not giving Saudi citizenship has to do with Islam? I have not come across any Islamic ruling which says the government is obliged to give citizenship status (just the name) to this people. Half of my family was born in saudi, they dont have citizenship. And we dont like the fact that we dont. But we dont go around criticizing and saying "ooh they are not following Islam, just beause they didnt give us citizenship."
 
mad_scientist said:
I am not too sure what not giving Saudi citizenship has to do with Islam? I have not come across any Islamic ruling which says the government is obliged to give citizenship status (just the name) to this people. Half of my family was born in saudi, they dont have citizenship. And we dont like the fact that we dont. But we dont go around criticizing and saying "ooh they are not following Islam, just beause they didnt give us citizenship."
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There is no nation within Islam though? There is no race within Islam.

So do you honestly think Prophet himself peace be upon would stop my uncle from getting citizenship? In fact, would there be such thing as citizenship. I don’t think so...


"AND MANKIND IS NAUGHT BUT A SINGLE NATION." Holy Quran 2:213

"AMONG HIS SIGNS IS THIS,THAT HE CREATED YOU FROM DUST: AND THEN, BEHOLD, YE ARE MEN SCATTERED( FAR AND WIDE)"
"AND AMONG HIS SIGNS IS THE CREATION OF THE HEAVENS AND THE EARTH, AND THE VARIATIONS AND DIVERSITY OF YOUR TONGUES AND OF YOUR COLOR; VERILY IN THAT ARE SIGNS FOR THOSE WHO KNOW."
Holy Qur'an 30:22

Prophet(P.B.U.H.) re-affirmed re-stated the principle of equality and brotherhood of man in Islam, thus bequeathing it as a sacred legacy to generation after generation of Muslims after him until the present day. Let me quote from the oration: "YE PEOPLE! LISTEN TO MY WORDS, FOR I KNOW NOT WHTHER ANOTHER YEAR WILL BE VOUCH SAFED TO ME AFTER THIS YEAR TO FIND MYSELF AMONGST YOU AT THIS PLACE."
"YOUR LIVES AND PROPERTY ARE SACRED AND INVIOLABLE AMONGST ONE ANOTHER UNTIL YE APPEAR BEFORE THE LORD... AND REMEMBER, YE SHALL HAVE TO APPEAR BEFORE YOUR LORD WHO SHALL DEMAND FROM YOU AN ACCOUNT OF ALL YOUR ACTIONS... YE PEOPLE, YE HAVE RIGHTS OVER YOUR WIVES, AND YOUR WIVES HAVE RIGHTS OVER YOU. TREAT THEM WITH KINDNESS AND LOVE... KEEP ALWAYS FAITHFULL TO THE TRUST REPOSED IN YOU." "YE PEOPLE LISTEN TO MY WORDSAND UNDERSTAND THEM. KNOE YE THAT ALL MUSLIMS ARE BROTHERS UNTO ONE ANOTHER. YE ARE ONE BROTHERHOOD." "ALL MEN ARE EQUAL IN ISLAM. THE ARAB HAS NO SUPERIORITY OVER THE NON-ARAB,NOR DOES THE NON-ARAB HAVE SUPERIORITY OVER THE ARAB, SAVE IN THE FEAR OF GOD."



Citizenship is much more Islamic then bloody driving I tell ya. :)
 
perhaps. I never said that they are doing a good job by not giving citizenship. I am just saying that it is not a reason for us to say that they are non-Islamic or not following Islam as there is no such hard and fast ruling in Islam. Lets look at it this way. Just because England gives citizenship to ppl who are born there, are you saying that England is Islamic?
 
No england is not islamic...


But the Saudi is clearly going against the teaching above along with other issues....making them less Islamic government. They may be the closet to Islamic government.... but also the furthest in some aspects. I don’t know what to call them.

Not to mention their role in foreign policies providing oil and all to the west...how do you think those trunk heading to Palestine, Iraq and Afghanistan, Somalia move with? oh and global warming...
 
sweet106 said:
No england is not islamic...


But the Saudi is clearly going against the teaching above along with other issues....making them less Islamic government. They may be the closet to Islamic government.... but also the furthest in some aspects. I don’t know what to call them.

Not to mention their role in foreign policies providing oil and all to the west...how do you think those trunk heading to Palestine, Iraq and Afghanistan, Somalia move with? oh and global warming...
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btw, I dont believe Global warming is a real issue. There is no scientific evidence to suggest that global warming is devastating etc. It is just Al Gore's hype. Temperatures are increasing, but that is a normal thing in Earth's history. Maybe humans are stimulating the increase? Who knows, we cant tell how it otherwise would ahve been because it all depends on probabilistic models and predictions.
 
mad_scientist said:
btw, I dont believe Global warming is a real issue. There is no scientific evidence to suggest that global warming is devastating etc. It is just Al Gore's hype. Temperatures are increasing, but that is a normal thing in Earth's history. Maybe humans are stimulating the increase? Who knows, we cant tell how it otherwise would ahve been because it all depends on probabilistic models and predictions.
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okay whatever you say. I believe it is a real issue but if you say otherwise I would agree to disagree.

Edit: btw dont think I hate Saudi or any other country or its people. I just believe the whole World is messed up.
 
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