Debate on banning Niqaab/Burka in Britain

[sister herb]

Forcing by law how people have to dress is called dictatorship. If in my country some politicians drive burkha banning I will start to use burkha at the same day.

I do same also for others. If using jew or christian sign will ban I will use them too.

 

[Hugo]

This was posted in the Toronto Sun... 10 reason not to0 ban the burka from that very authoritative source the Toronto Sun

Well in fairness here are 10 reason to ban it taken from several sources
1. The practice is demeaning to women and turns them into objects of derision and no one with a free choice would decide to dress in that manner.

2. It is not generally a free choice and community pressure not personal conscience makes them dress in this way.

3. There is pressure only one way and Muslims cannot or will not be even handed on this issue as is proved in post 88 where NO ONE in this board was willing to stand up for the rights of women who refuse to wear the burka.

4. It is pressure, explicit or implicit from men who want their women to be subservient and submissive and no man who truly loves his wife or daughter would want them to dress in such a ridiculous fashion.

5. The practice is harmful to the self respect of the women as it confirms her position as lower than and subservient to men.

6. It is potentially harmful to the person wearing the burka and those around her as moving and seeing where one is going is heavily restricted and since the dress is typically black at night it may be impossible for other to see them.

7. Wearing this oppressive garment s a sign of extremism. It is not a religious requirement; rather it is worn as a hostile political statement. The idea that God who created the vastness of the Universes with such beauty and precision should demand that women dress like this is totally fatuous.

8. When non-Muslims visit Muslim countries they are expected to conform to local custom by covering up out of respect for the host country. The burka is contrary to British culture and custom. Those who live here should conform in the same way as non-Muslims do abroad.

9. It is desirable that any practice empowers people but this practice does quite the opposite.

10. Immigrant Muslims who came to Britain to get away from Stalinist ayatollahs, mullahs and women-hating fanatic regimes in their home countries must be spitting their teeth out that anyone should endorse this dreadful garment.

 

[Hugo]

Forcing by law how people have to dress is called dictatorship. If in my country some politicians drive burkha banning I will start to use burkha at the same day. I do same also for others. If using jew or christian sign will ban I will use them too.

It may be so but every Muslim majority country typically does so do they not so by your definition they are dictatorships? I like your stance here but of course if you took it is say Saudi Arabia you would be locked up and that in a way is why I find so many posts here confusing.

 

[Hugo]

You are comparing apples to oranges. One is a single institution, the other is the government passing a law. If the students in a Muslim university want to advocate what they consider to be Muslim attire then I have no problem with that. I look at that the same way I look at someone not allowing anyone to wear a hijab in their own house, or even requiring one in their own house. I think everyone should have that right. Now if the government were to pass a law saying that people can't wear hijabs in their own houses, or requiring hijabs then I would find that objectionable (to put it mildly).

But cannot YOU see how inconsistent your view is, we must not ban the burka but your are happy to let a group insist it is worn and then you say everyone should have rights - what we are speaking of here is a principle and that principle is should a group, large or small be able to impose its will one another group in matters of conscience.

 

[Hugo]

Ofcourse its random - its like asking if i would go to austria and stand up for someone who would deny the holocaust? who cares I'm not indian and I'm not austrian. Another thing you have got wrong here is that "I'm demanding the right to wear the burkha" which if you actaully read my posts you would see is false and I havent said anything like that. You should actually read my posts rather then making random things up.

I am trying to find out if your are even handed here - that you would support someone who wants to wear the burka and just as strongly support those who do not based on the principle of freedom of conscience - its very simple just make it clear what your view is?

 

[sister herb]

It may be so but every Muslim majority country do so do they not so by your definition they are dictatorships? I like your stance here but of course if you took it is say Saudi Arabia you would be locked up and that in a way is why I find so many posts here confusing.

Yes. Britain is not muslim majority country. Neither France. Or Holland. They all are free western Christian countries.

If I ever visit those countries I will use burkha.

 

[sister herb]

Call it as demonstration!

 

[Zafran]

I am trying to find out if your are even handed here - that you would support someone who wants to wear the burka and just as strongly support those who do not based on the principle of freedom of conscience - its very simple just make it clear what your view is?

This is part of the problem where in God's earth did I ever base my view on "the principle of freedom of conscience". Its very clear what I'm sayiing in my previous posts - if you dont understand them then quote them and tell me what you dont understand?? By the way it would be great if you could show me where I'm using this so called principle??

 

[Zafran]

It may be so but every Muslim majority country do so do they not so by your definition they are dictatorships? I like your stance here but of course if you took it is say Saudi Arabia you would be locked up and that in a way is why I find so many posts here confusing.

Your simply wrong here and its the second time your claiming something which isnt true - Turkey is a majority muslim country does it force people to dress in a specific way?? Your claiming that EVERY muslim majority country does this???

 

[Hugo]

Just a few questions but how do sisters feel when they wear a burka? I have no idea so it could be they feel superior, they feel more righteous/self-righteous, they condemn others, they feel more spiritual, they feel more in tune with God etc.

 

[aadil77]

Just a few questions but how do sisters feel when they wear a burka? I have no idea so it could be they feel superior, they feel more righteous/self-righteous, they condemn others, they feel more spiritual, they feel more in tune with God etc.

putting on a burkha is not like putting on a crown, it doesn't make you superior nor should you think it does

 

[Zafran]

Is it like wearing a nuns Habit?

 

[N1LOY]

Some wouldn't believe what I saw today...

These teenage girls (around my age) wearing hijaab on top.... wearing tight jeans (exposing back) and t-shirt (exposing their chest)...they don't even look good :giggling:. And there was other girl who was wearing proper clothes. :smile:

I felt really bad for what they are representing for Islam and Muslim women's culture.
If you are reading (and wear these type of clothings) ... there is no reason for you to wear hijaab...remember Allah knows your intention and your inner feelings.

Allah Almighty knows best.​

 

[Zafran]

Some wouldn't believe what I saw today...

These teenage girls (around my age) wearing hijaab on top.... wearing tight jeans (exposing back) and t-shirt (exposing their chest)...they don't even look good :giggling:. And there was other girl who was wearing proper clothes. :smile:

I felt really bad for what they are representing for Islam and Muslim women's culture.
If you are reading (and wear these type of clothings) ... there is no reason for you to wear hijaab...remember Allah knows your intention and your inner feelings.

Allah Almighty knows best.​

Salaam

You should be more worried about yourself then being so Judgemental - Yes Allah swt knows there intentions we dont and besides you shouldnt have been looking at them in the first place. Whats this about " dont even look good" for who? you?

peace

 

[N1LOY]

Salaam

You should be more worried about yourself then being so Judgemental - Yes Allah swt knows there intentions we dont and besides you shouldnt have been looking at them in the first place. Whats this about " dont even look good" for who? you?

peace

Why should I be worry about myself more?

I have eyes, I have looked once (and turned away) and other human with eyes would have done the same. That is why I am being judgmental, because I have observed them carefully. That is my opinion, and you can't prove me wrong on that.

If you like your daughter to wear a small hijaab and bikini on bottom, how would you feel?

Here are what the Muslimah should fulfill to have a correct Islamic dress code:

1. Clothing must cover the entire body, only the hands and face may remain visible.
2. The material must not be so thin that one can see through it.
3. The clothing must hang loose so that the shape/form of the body is not apparent.
4. The female clothing must not resemble the man's clothing.
5. The design of the clothing must not resemble the clothing of the non-believing women.
6. The design must not consist of bold designs which attract attention.
7. Clothing should not be worn for the sole purpose of gaining reputation or increasing one's status in society.
The reason for this strictness is so that the woman is protected from the lustful gaze of men. She should not attract attention to herself in any way.

So, if you fulfilled these tips, so you will have a correct hijab which Allah will be pleased with.

Peace be with you.

 

[Zafran]

Why should I be worry about myself more?

I have eyes, I have looked once (and turned away) and other human with eyes would have done the same. That is why I am being judgmental, because I have observed them carefully. That is my opinion, and you can't prove me wrong on that.

If you like your daughter to wear a small hijaab and bikini on bottom, how would you feel?

Peace be with you.

salaam

Then why didnt you go up to the girls and tell them to there face rather then talking about it on the internet if you feel so strongly about it???

One glance and you observed them carefully - whats that about - that doesnt seem like a "glance" to me.

peace

 

[N1LOY]

salaam

Ok then why didnt you go up to the girls and tell them to there face rather then talking about it on the internet if you feel so strongly about it???

peace

I don't think it will be a good thing to do. First of all, I do not know them. They can be older than me. And in New York, they can wear hijaab and bikini and we can't do anything to stop it. It's their own rights and wishes.

I am just posting on internet so maybe other parents can read it and get the main idea. I am sorry if I got you angry, it wasn't my intention. You can dress up your child anyway you want to and probably stay away from the knowledge.



Allah is the most merciful. He knows the truth. Peace be with you.

 

[Zafran]

I don't think it will be a good thing to do. First of all, I do not know them. They can be older than me. And in New York, they can wear hijaab and bikini and we can't do anything to stop it. It's their own rights and wishes.

I am just posting on internet so maybe other parents can read it and get the main idea. I am sorry if I got you angry, it wasn't my intention. You can dress up your child anyway you want to and probably stay away from the knowledge.



Allah is the most merciful. He knows the truth. Peace be with you.

Salaam

You dont know them better reason not to talk about them. Nobody is telling you to stop them and you have no right to do that anyway.

Dressing a child the way I want?? whats that got to do with you talking about women that you dont even know about.

Just becasue you "glanced" at them you seem to think you have the right to Judge them as if your part of there family.

anyway this is going way off topic as this thread is about Niqab/burkha in the UK.

peace

 

[N1LOY]

Salaam

You dont know them better reason not to talk about them. Nobody is telling you to stop them and you have no right to do that anyway.

Dressing a child the way I want?? whats that got to do with you talking about women that you dont even know about.

Just becasue you "glanced" at them you seem to think you have the right to Judge them as if your part of there family.

anyway this is going way off topic as this thread is about Niqab/burkha in the UK.

peace

If I knew them I would never share my experience here. Am I trying to stop them? No. All I am trying to state is that a smart Muslim woman should dress properly. If not, then none. Why wear a hijaab if you have intention to display your chest/ass size?

That is an inference. -__- How would you feel if you see your daughter like that?

I thought we are all brothers and sisters. Correct me if I am wrong.

 

[Zafran]

If I knew them I would never share my experience here. Am I trying to stop them? No. All I am trying to state is that a smart Muslim woman should dress properly. If not, then none. Why wear a hijaab if you have intention to display your chest/ass size?

That is an inference. -__- How would you feel if you see your daughter like that?

I thought we are all brothers and sisters. Correct me if I am wrong.

Salaam

who are you tell muslim women how to dress properly thats my point - especially women that your not related to and dont even know???

brothers and sisters ofcourse - that doesnt give us the right to Judge women that we dont know.

peace