Debate on banning Niqaab/Burka in Britain

[N1LOY]

Salaam

who are you tell muslim women how to dress properly thats my point - especially women that your not related to and dont even know???

brothers and sisters ofcourse - that doesnt give us the right to Judge women that we dont know.

peace

I am not judging their inner feelings. -__- I am judging their dress code. I have seen many Muslim women who dress properly, may Allah be pleased with them.

Who am I? I am the speaker of truth, slave of Allah and follower of Muhammad.
Who are you to tell me that it is OK for women to wear tight jeans and shirts?

 

[Zafran]

Salaam

Who am I? I am the speaker of truth, slave of Allah and follower of Muhammad.
Who are you to tell me that it is OK for women to wear tight jeans and shirts

where did I say that? I said

who are you tell muslim women how to dress properly thats my point - especially women that your not related to and dont even know???

So this gives you the right to Judge random muslim women that you dont even know and are not even related to you? because your the speaker of truth and the slave Allah swt, follower of Muhammad pbuh?

peace

 

[Zafran]

Please delete mods double post

 

[N1LOY]

Salaam



where did I say that? I said



So this gives you the right to Judge random muslim women that you dont even know and are not even related to?

They represent Islam and Muslim women. I have judged their dress code and not their inside. Can you say if it's alright to wear such clothes or not? You are being reluctant from the decision.

If it smells like a fish, looks like a fish... then it is a fish, right?

Imagine if I was an Atheist and looking for a true religion, if I come up to Muslim teenage girls like this, my idea of Islam would change negatively.

And again... just dress code. Inner-feelings, only Allah (SWT) knows the best.

 

[nousername]

Well in fairness here are 10 reason to ban it taken from several sources
1. The practice is demeaning to women and turns them into objects of derision and no one with a free choice would decide to dress in that manner.

2. It is not generally a free choice and community pressure not personal conscience makes them dress in this way.

3. There is pressure only one way and Muslims cannot or will not be even handed on this issue as is proved in post 88 where NO ONE in this board was willing to stand up for the rights of women who refuse to wear the burka.

4. It is pressure, explicit or implicit from men who want their women to be subservient and submissive and no man who truly loves his wife or daughter would want them to dress in such a ridiculous fashion.

5. The practice is harmful to the self respect of the women as it confirms her position as lower than and subservient to men.

6. It is potentially harmful to the person wearing the burka and those around her as moving and seeing where one is going is heavily restricted and since the dress is typically black at night it may be impossible for other to see them.

7. Wearing this oppressive garment s a sign of extremism. It is not a religious requirement; rather it is worn as a hostile political statement. The idea that God who created the vastness of the Universes with such beauty and precision should demand that women dress like this is totally fatuous.

8. When non-Muslims visit Muslim countries they are expected to conform to local custom by covering up out of respect for the host country. The burka is contrary to British culture and custom. Those who live here should conform in the same way as non-Muslims do abroad.

9. It is desirable that any practice empowers people but this practice does quite the opposite.

10. Immigrant Muslims who came to Britain to get away from Stalinist ayatollahs, mullahs and women-hating fanatic regimes in their home countries must be spitting their teeth out that anyone should endorse this dreadful garment.

I am sure from this post that you have never had a conversation with a niqabi woman. Same old talking points. Think of something original.

 

[Zafran]

They represent Islam and Muslim women. I have judged their dress code and not their inside. Can you say if it's alright to wear such clothes or not? You are being reluctant from the decision.

If it smells like a fish, looks like a fish... then it is a fish, right?

Imagine if I was an Atheist and looking for a true religion, if I come up to Muslim teenage girls like this, my idea of Islam would change negatively.

And again... just dress code. Inner-feelings, only Allah (SWT) knows the best.

Salaam

I dont even know them and I havent even seen them so your telling me to Judge them? I dont even have the right to Judge there dress code - do you?

An "Athiest" if he is sincere will be guided by God anyway - thats out of our or any muslim teenage girls control.

peace

 

[N1LOY]

Salaam

I dont even know them and I havent even seen them so your telling me to Judge them? I dont even have the right to Judge there dress code - do you?

An "Athiest" if he is sincere will be guided by God anyway - thats out of our or any muslim teenage girls control.

peace

Oh brother... I don't want you to judge their inner feelings and I have already described their dress code, so you can judge them.
I believe you never heard of tight jeans/skinny jeans and tight t-shirts. Yes you do not have right (yet), when you do not know what it is in the first place.

I disagree with your second statement. It is also our responsibilities to show the righteousness and truth, and it is up to them for their decision. We represent Islam.

"Hold to forgiveness, command what is right; but turn away from the ignorant." [Qur'an 7:199]

 

[Hugo]

I am sure from this post that you have never had a conversation with a niqabi woman. Same old talking points. Think of something original.

No one is claiming originality only that IF you looked through the posts someone posted 10 reason not to ban, they also were old hat so I posted 10 reason to ban so that we have a kind of balance, that there is NOT a single view. As it happens I have worked with many women students in Universities over many years who cover up entirely except for the eyes. Its better not to judge don't you think when you don't have any facts and know nothing about the person who posts. Is this your way of avoiding the issues?

 

[aadil77]

Is this your way of avoiding the issues?

what exactly is the issue?

 

[Hugo]

what exactly is the issue?

This is a thread about banning the burka - well that is what I think it is about what do you think it is about? If you read the thread the issues seem plain.

 

[Dagless]

This is a thread about banning the burka - well that is what I think it is about what do you think it is about? If you read the thread the issues seem plain.

The 10 issues you listed aren't really issues; they are what ignorant islamophobes use to justify their own prejudice.

 

[aadil77]

This is a thread about banning the burka - well that is what I think it is about what do you think it is about? If you read the thread the issues seem plain.

The only issue I see is people trying to force women to take off their veils, do you see any others?

same thing is happening in israel where rabbi's are trying prevent jewish women from wearing niqaab

 

[Hugo]

The 10 issues you listed aren't really issues; they are what ignorant islamophobes use to justify their own prejudice.

You simply CANNOT see can you that YOU are just as phobic and prejudiced as the rest of us or if this post is anything to go by worse.

 

[Hugo]

The only issue I see is people trying to force women to take off their veils, do you see any others? same thing is happening in israel where rabbi's are trying prevent jewish women from wearing niqaab

Yes I listed 10 of them in an earlier post. That fact that you can only see one issue is perhaps because you have already made up your mind but is it more than that that you just cannot understand that other might hold different views? Do you also NOT think it possible that there are those who are trying to force women to wear the veil - or is that ok by you?

On the Israel issue it was at the insistence of the husbands of some burka-wearing women, a leading rabbinical authority is to issue an edict declaring burka wearing a sexual fetish that is as promiscuous as wearing too little. You also need to be aware that this is not some kind of mass movement but a small group of ultra-orthodox Jews in the town of Beit Shemesh who chose to don the burka, usually associated with women in repressive Islamist regimes, three years ago in a bid to protect their modesty.

Are their husbands wrong? Are the Rabbi's wrong since one would expect them to be experts in Jewish law.

 

[Dagless]

You simply CANNOT see can you that YOU are just as phobic and prejudiced as the rest of us or if this post is anything to go by worse.

What am I prejudiced about? I only pointed out the fact that you are propagating falsehood. Yes I am prejudiced against people who bring up the same old inaccurate statements (which have been answered many times before) to hide their underlying bigotry. You got me.

 

[Hugo]

What am I prejudiced about? I only pointed out the fact that you are propagating falsehood. Yes I am prejudiced against people who bring up the same old inaccurate statements (which have been answered many times before) to hide their underlying bigotry. You got me.

Your prejudice is shown clearly because you cannot see another point of view and assume that any answer you give is the end of the matter and everything else is inaccurate as if you possess some kind of infallibility. I made no statements or said I supported one way or the other those 20 point of view but posed them questions but all you can do is call any one who does so ignorant, islamophobes, prejudiced and now bigoted. Dante may have been right when he said "Some have justice in their hearts, thinking before they let their judgements leave the bow, but your people keep it handy on their lips".

 

[aadil77]

Yes I listed 10 of them in an earlier post. That fact that you can only see one issue is perhaps because you have already made up your mind but is it more than that that you just cannot understand that other might hold different views? Do you also NOT think it possible that there are those who are trying to force women to wear the veil - or is that ok by you?

Its not impossible, but does that mean you go and ban it for everyone? Is it not worse for someone to be forced to take off an item of clothing than to be made to wear one? whats the worst infringement of rights of the two?

Same issue with the rabbi's, key word is the women 'chose' to wear the burka,

this is a picture of the burka:

those rabbi's must be nuts to declare it a 'sexual fetish' and just 'as promiscuous as wearing too little'

 

[Dagless]

Your prejudice is shown clearly because you cannot see another point of view and assume that any answer you give is the end of the matter and everything else is inaccurate as if you possess some kind of infallibility. I made no statements or said I supported one way or the other those 20 point of view but posed them questions but all you can do is call any one who does so ignorant, islamophobes, prejudiced and now bigoted. Dante may have been right when he said "Some have justice in their hearts, thinking before they let their judgements leave the bow, but your people keep it handy on their lips".

This makes no sense. I called you those things because you stated points which are false. Your list of "points" have been proven many times to be incorrect. It is not only a matter of opinion; the statements are factually wrong about the very people they are about. Twice in this very thread you have been told they are incorrect; yet you persist in stating them. Cookie Monster may have been right when he said "COOKIE!!".

 

[Hugo]

Its not impossible, but does that mean you go and ban it for everyone? Is it not worse for someone to be forced to take off an item of clothing than to be made to wear one? whats the worst infringement of rights of the two?

Who can say for sure but the person involved. As an outsider I would say that the burka is an absurdity and why any one would choose to wear it is beyond my understanding and forcing anyone to wear it is oppression - you might think the opposite.

Same issue with the rabbi's, key word is the women 'chose' to wear the burka, this is a picture of the burka: those rabbi's must be nuts to declare it a 'sexual fetish' and just 'as promiscuous as wearing too little'

But I might say a Muslim cleric who declares the burka a good and right thing to wear is also nuts. Does it occur to you to ask why would the God who created the Universe want or see any pleasure in woman dressing in that fashion, surely you must be able to see it is extreme? Interestingly a recent BBC documentary was shown on prostitution in Iran - now I don't blame those women involved (estimated to be about 100,000) because they seem to be driven to it largely by poverty. But when they walk from client to client they wear the usual Islamic dress including the burka so wearing it may or may not signify much about the person.

 

[Salahudeen]

Who can say for sure but the person involved. As an outsider I would say that the burka is an absurdity and why any one would choose to wear it is beyond my understanding and forcing anyone to wear it is oppression - you might think the opposite.



But I might say a Muslim cleric who declares the burka a good and right thing to wear is also nuts. Does it occur to you to ask why would the God who created the Universe want or see any pleasure in woman dressing in that fashion, surely you must be able to see it is extreme? Interestingly a recent BBC documentary was shown on prostitution in Iran - now I don't blame those women involved (estimated to be about 100,000) because they seem to be driven to it largely by poverty. But when they walk from client to client they wear the usual Islamic dress including the burka so wearing it may or may not signify much about the person.

The same could be said for nuns. Why do they choose to wear that covering over their head and not display their ornaments? this is extreme is it not? Why do they dress this way? and why is the virgin marry all ways depicted with a covering over her head? surely they have gone to an extreme this should be banned also why would God like them to dress this way as nuns? weird ;D

I explained to you why Muslim women wear it a few posts back, as an act of submission to God, just like Christian nuns wear a head covering as an act of submission to God. I wonder why you keep raising the same questions over and over do you enjoy going in circles?

It's beyond my understand why a nun would choose to dress the way she does.