Thanks for the replies all around. I am always scared that asking these questions might spread fitna if my thoughts turn out to be wrong. Let me just say that I'm glad I came back to LI.
Anywhoo, about the mahram. I find the idea of a big bearded uncle breathing down my back as I talk to his daughter extremely awkward and stifling for any meaningful conversation. If we're in a public place, what's the need for one?
let me get this straight. you (not you personally, just speaking in general) cant face a man, so you decide it would be better to brainwash the sister instead? becuase women are more naive and weak right? and if the guy isn't there, then she is sure to fall you because our mahrams are big bad men who brainwash us right? get out.
im sorry, i really don't mean to have a go at you, but comments like that just make my blood boil.
on topic:
you have every right to marry someone you are comfortable with and she comfortable with you. however you shouldn't make the mistake by thinking that Islam doesn't allow this and/or the only way you can feel comfortable with one another is by breaking any guidelines. it is possible to marry someone you are comfortable with and have her dad/mahrams present.
i sort of get the feeling sometimes when people ask these type of question, that these type of questions are stemmed from an ignorant culture which practically outlaws any type pf feelings between males and females and think it is something absurd.
these ideas are ludicrous and unrealistic. you dont have to marry anyone you dont want and neither does your wife. you should feel at ease with who ever you decide to marry...there is no harm in that.
you can manage to ask questions/get to know the sister with the presence of her mahram? alternatively you can do thorough background checks...don't rely too much on people in these matters more then what is necessary otherwise you risk getting wires crossed. use as little people to help you find out about the sister/ask her questions as per necessary. try getting someone
reliable and
fair (i cant emphasis that enough)...often people use their female mahrams to talk with the girl/her family.
im not sure what you mean by falling in love before marriage and if you really mean that to be some type of inclination, but marriage doesn't equal love and love doesn't equal marriage. you don't need to be in love with your spouse to marry them, you just need a decent level of respect for one another, abit of attraction/emotional inclination and a few things in common.
often people make the mistake that one needs to be in love with their potential to marry them, but love comes years after marriage. it literally takes years to build.
My idea of dating is taking to the girl in social settings. If we get along enough after a while, if shes muslim I'd ask her if it'd be awkward for me to ask her parents for permission to take her out. If I get the green light, then cool. I'd keep it halal, see if our personalities and views of life match and go for marriage when we feel ready. If no, well then it gets complicated. I consider myself a practicing Muslim, and if shes interested in me but her parents reject me for no real islamic reason its up to the daughter I feel. Parents cant force marriage on her. What do ya think?
but if her parents say no, what next? what can you do? i mean are you expecting her to run away with you or something.
the thing is with your method, there is that emotional attraction/lovey dovey unrealistic story. 2 people get attracted, they cant be with each other for whatever reasons. they either both wait for one another, or one gets sick of the other/their families to get around and so they move on leaving the other in a mess.
the key is winning the heart of the wali first not the girl...well its important to win both their hearts over, but people often fall in the trap of jumping the gun and someone can get hurt.
