Disappointment with God

[جوري]

You misunderstand my point completely. I am not saying that the consumption of pork and alcohol increases life expectancy, but I am saying that the strict banning of pork and alcohol for the sake of health is grossly unjustified. It is better not to mention it, because it is to your disadvantage

you shouldn't mention it indeed because it is a serious blunder from which you can have no hope to recover your credibility, not that you've ever had credibility to begin with:

Everything about Christians has turned into a joke including how they reason, can you believe the moronity of this fellow, thinking 'life expectancy' denotes that eating pigs and drinking liquor is best? perhaps he should consider the following: more Muslims in Germany than in Lebanon and more in China than in Syria http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...lim_population perhaps further looking into his own claims, since countries like kuwait and united Arab Emirates have an even longer life expectancy than their western counter-part.. perhaps in his pea sized brain containing two cells held together by a blessed spirochete will enable him the notion that socio-economic conditions and not pigs and liquor is the determining factor in that 'life expectancy' span that has so amused him..

the disadvantage I fear is yours pig/liquor lover.. you are what you eat and drink after all!

 

[أحمد]

You misunderstand my point completely. I am not saying that the consumption of pork and alcohol increases life expectancy, but I am saying that the strict banning of pork and alcohol for the sake of health is grossly unjustified. It is better not to mention it, because it is to your disadvantage.

Sharing knowledge isn't to anyone's disadvantage, if you've got evidence to present; go ahead.

:wa:

 

[GuestFellow]

It is better not to mention it, because it is to your disadvantage.

Then you should not have mentioned it in the first place... =/

 

[truth finder]

Sharing knowledge isn't to anyone's disadvantage, if you've got evidence to present; go ahead.

:wa:

I chose 5 most religious Muslim countries from North Africa and Middle East. The data was collected by UN, not USA. The first five countries are known to enjoy a variety of food including pork and moderate amount of alcohol.

Ranking Country Life Expectancy Pork/(moderate) alcohol
1 Japan 83 Yes
2 Hong Kong 82 Yes
3 Iceland 82 Yes
4 Switzerland 82 Yes
5 Australia 81 Yes
85 Saudi Arabia 73 No
108 Iran 71 No
156 Sudan 59 No
181 Somalia 48 No
188 Afghanistan 47 (before 9/11) No

 

[جوري]

I chose 5 most religious Muslim countries from North Africa and Middle East. The data was collected by UN, not USA. The first five countries are known to enjoy a variety of food including pork and moderate amount of alcohol. Ranking Country Life Expectancy Pork/(moderate) alcohol 1 Japan 83 Yes 2 Hong Kong 82 Yes 3 Iceland 82 Yes 4 Switzerland 82 Yes 5 Australia 81 Yes 85 Saudi Arabia 73 No 108 Iran 71 No 156 Sudan 59 No 181 Somalia 48 No 188 Afghanistan 47 (before 9/11) No

Again we are asking what does this prove? further, how do you define 'most religious'? you are so incredibly silly, I think you should disable your account come up with a new identity to fit with that alleged 'PhD' :haha:

 

[GuestFellow]

I chose 5 most religious Muslim countries from North Africa and Middle East. The data was collected by UN, not USA. The first five countries are known to enjoy a variety of food including pork and moderate amount of alcohol.

Ranking Country Life Expectancy Pork/(moderate) alcohol
1 Japan 83 Yes
2 Hong Kong 82 Yes
3 Iceland 82 Yes
4 Switzerland 82 Yes
5 Australia 81 Yes
85 Saudi Arabia 73 No
108 Iran 71 No
156 Sudan 59 No
181 Somalia 48 No
188 Afghanistan 47 (before 9/11) No

Firstly, do you have a link to verify this? I can easily come up with numbers and claim that they come from this source.

Secondly, how would you define ''most religious?'' Is there such criteria to determine whether a Muslim is religious or not?

Thirdly, I don't understand what this proves. There are so many factors relating to life expectancy...

 

[أحمد]

To add to the list by truth finder:
194 Swaziland 39 Yes

:wa:

 

[CosmicPathos]

Disappointment with God can take various forms. It could be benign such that the person says things which are against God yet continues to believe in God. In extreme forms, the person is so disappointed with the God that he begins to question His existence. This form can lead to agnosticism and atheism.

Disappointment with God (and rejection of His existence) will not change the course of things in life for the person who is disappointed with God. The world and all that within it is fleeting. One feels embittered if one adopts a materialistic point of view. Embittered because everyone else seems to be doing good in their careers ... for example, you mentioned about your PhD and how you felt that you did not get the professorship while others were getting it. Everything seems futile and hatred for people, who are ahead of you, starts seeping in because you start looking at the world through selfish lens because it seems apparently that you are the only figure of loss in this world. In short, disappointment with God is a pathological state for soul and it can be deadly ....

its best to catch it in earlier stages and develop complete dependence on Allah. Since you brought academics in, you should develop a worldview in which you start believing that getting publications in top journals such as Nature etc should not the goal of your life. If you like to contribute to research and human knowledge, it is a worthwhile goal but dont make it the only goal of your life. It will only bring disappointment. In general, kaafirs/non-Muslims are much more involved in dunya and hence they make great scientists, because that is their purpose of life i.e. love for science. I talk from my personal experience with my professors, non-Muslim peers etc. I am not saying that a Muslim believer settles for a second place, no. Not at all. A believer aims for perfection. In everything. His world as well as his hereafter. But the focus on achieving perfection in the world is to be able to attain perfection in hereafter. But in the end, if a believer is not able to attain perfection in dunya in the ways he wanted, for example getting the professor position, he believes that his God has better plans for him.

 

[truth finder]

To add to the list by truth finder:
194 Swaziland 39 Yes

:wa:

Yes, you are right that there are some countries that allow pork and alcohol but has shorter life expectancy than Somalia and Afghanistan. Eating pork or not has virtually nothing with life expectancy or health. Eating pork also does not create sinful desire and urge to disgrace God, or hurt other people or themselves physically and emotionally. Pork is just protein and fat, not much different from other animals. What makes people unclean is what goes into our heart, not what goes into our stomach. The heart of the matter is the matter of the heart, not the matter of protein and fat!

 

[جوري]

Yes, you are right that there are some countries that allow pork and alcohol but has shorter life expectancy than Somalia and Afghanistan. Eating pork or not has virtually nothing with life expectancy or health. Eating pork also does not create sinful desire and urge to disgrace God, or hurt other people or themselves physically and emotionally. Pork is just protein and fat, not much different from other animals. What makes people unclean is what goes into our heart, not what goes into our stomach. The heart of the matter is the matter of the heart, not the matter of protein and fat!

If eating pork has nothing to do with life-expectancy why did you list it with the intention of making it as such. namely that eating pork and drinking liquor has been beneficial. Were you hoping for your average oafish audience? Is that what you are accustomed to in your churches? No one really seems to expend a thought so why bother with a thoughtful conjecture?
Since you are NOT GOD you can't speak for god, indeed those who break the commandments don't disgrace God, they disgrace themselves. God is above the creation, their prayers, fast and worship are meaningless save for the sincerity in the heart and the acceptance of this sincerity from a merciful God. I mean exactly what are you hoping for? now that you have declared pork clean and with greater life expectancy that we are all going to run out and get some pork? You are unclean by everything you do what your mouth utters, what your heart hides and the way you live your life in constant breakage of God's commandments. If you are happy with that life style then be happy and buzz off!

all the best

 

[serena77]

i'm going back to the thread title and i hpe that doesn't upset anyone.... the pork discussion i'm sure will go on around me.... but... you know... my parents divorced...both remarried... one of them twice, i'm 33.. my dad is now gone..... i reminded him too much of mom so he didnt like me much anyway.. i've had to leave school.. not once but twice... both due to assualts... one by an ex boyfriend and one by my best friends's brother ... I have more mental illness issues than i really like to admit....

but w/ all of that... i never blamed God... I was never disappointed in what he did... he did allow me to survive the things that happened to me... and he allows me to be alive today... so its very hard for me to be disappointed... even though i've had many people tell me i had every right to be.
Serena

 

[جوري]

i'm going back to the thread title and i hpe that doesn't upset anyone.... the pork discussion i'm sure will go on around me.... but... you know... my parents divorced...both remarried... one of them twice, i'm 33.. my dad is now gone..... i reminded him too much of mom so he didnt like me much anyway.. i've had to leave school.. not once but twice... both due to assualts... one by an ex boyfriend and one by my best friends's brother ... I have more mental illness issues than i really like to admit.... but w/ all of that... i never blamed God... I was never disappointed in what he did... he did allow me to survive the things that happened to me... and he allows me to be alive today... so its very hard for me to be disappointed... even though i've had many people tell me i had every right to be. Serena

Serena the negative things that happen to us is what shapes our character and makes us evolve into what we are. If we spill these things outside and don't let it humble us and make us grow we let go of a golden opportunity. In my opinion it is suffering that humanizes the soul..

peace

 

[serena77]

i never said i didnt agree that i learned a lot.... i wouldn't be able to do half the creative things i could w/o the aspergers.... but.. my point was.... there was /is no disappointment in God. It doesn't seem right to be disappointed in Allah *swt* i'm sure some would disagree its just not something i could do.
Serena

 

[Ramadhan]

If a certain act is considered sinful, it always creates urge or desire to disgrace God, nor hurt other people or themselves physically and emotionally. For example, taking drug is sinful because it destroys the body and mind of the person. Stealing money from somebody is sinful because it hurts the victim financially and emotionally. It is very interesting to see that most readers are so sensitive to eating pork. Is this because eating pork does create a lust or sexual desire to commit sin? Is this because eating pork does create a temper to curse and hurt other people? Is this because eating pork does create a desire to deny God or question God's words? Is this because eating pork does create an urge to disobey God? But eating pork does none of these for non-Muslims. Pork is just fat and protein. From nutritional and hygienic points of view there are many other foods worse than pork. What makes people unclean is what goes into our heart, not what goes into our stomach. The heart of the matter is the matter of the heart, not the matter of protein and fat!

I think you'd better direct your rant above to Jesus pbuh who was STICTLY A NON-PORK EATER.

If you want to eat pork, just eat it.
If you want to have extranmarital sex, just do it
If you want to drink alcohol, just drink it
If you want to have gay sexual acts, just do it.
If you want to dress your daughter in tight bikini and prancing around the malls, just do it

After all, those things are getting more and more popular among the christians these days.

Certainly not something that jesus pbuh did or teach anyone they can do those things.

Just do those things, but do NOT smear lies against Jesus pbuh, and claim that He pbuh allowed you do those things.


footnote:
isnt it interesting that muslims respect jesus pbuh and mary pbuh a lot more than christians?

 

[Ramadhan]

You misunderstand my point completely. I am not saying that the consumption of pork and alcohol increases life expectancy, but I am saying that the strict banning of pork and alcohol for the sake of health is grossly unjustified. It is better not to mention it, because it is to your disadvantage.

No one here as far as I know said that pork and alcohol should be banned for health reasons. Muslims say that alcohol and pork should not be consumed because it is God's commands. period.
There are of course benefits (hikmah) in obeying God's commands, some of those we know (such as ill-effects of alcohols and diseases carried by pork), while most we don't.

You are making up things and attributing it to others.

This is what early priests and scribes did: making up things and attributing it to Jesus pbuh.

 

[Ramadhan]

To add to the list by truth finder (Disappointment with God):
194 Swaziland 39 Yes

LOL.
I was too late. I was going to present him with my own list too.

I just cannot believe he has Phd. PhD in what?
He cannot even perform basic critical thinking.
He's an evangelist though.

 

[truth finder]

i'm going back to the thread title and i hpe that doesn't upset anyone.... the pork discussion i'm sure will go on around me.... but... you know... my parents divorced...both remarried... one of them twice, i'm 33.. my dad is now gone..... i reminded him too much of mom so he didnt like me much anyway.. i've had to leave school.. not once but twice... both due to assualts... one by an ex boyfriend and one by my best friends's brother ... I have more mental illness issues than i really like to admit....

but w/ all of that... i never blamed God... I was never disappointed in what he did... he did allow me to survive the things that happened to me... and he allows me to be alive today... so its very hard for me to be disappointed... even though i've had many people tell me i had every right to be.
Serena

I agree with your point, which is likely shared by many other people as well. But disappointment was what I really felt at that moment and I wanted to be totally honest to God about my emotions. In contrast to the common perception that God would not be pleased with me, I felt the deepest love of God at that moment. I learned the treasure of being honest with God very hard way. Afterwards I share the following story with other people.

Honesty is one of the major virtues for the character of a person. It is more so in our relationship with God. If you want a deeper, more intimate relationship with God, you must learn to honesty share your feelings with Him. God wants complete honesty – about your faults and your feelings. God does not expect you to be perfect, but He insists on complete honesty. None of God’s friends in the Bible were perfect. If perfection was a requirement for friendship with God, we would never be able to be His friends. Fortunately, because of God’s grace, Jesus is still the friend of sinners. In the Bible, the friends of God were honest about their feelings, often complaining, second-guessing, accusing, and even arguing with their Creator. God, however, did not seem to be bothered by this frankness; in fact, He encouraged it!

For example, God allowed Abraham to question and challenge Him over the destruction of the city of Sodom. Abraham pestered God over what it would take to spare the city, negotiating God down from fifty righteous people to only ten. God also listened patiently to David’s many accusations of unfairness, betrayal, and abandonment. God did not slay Jeremiah when he claimed that God had tricked him. Job was allowed to vent his bitterness during his ordeal, and in the end, God defended Job for being honest, and He rebuked Job’s friends for being inauthentic.

God is our Creator and Maker, Lord and Master, Judge, Redeemer, Father, Savior and much more. But the most wonderful truth is this: The almighty God also yearns to be our Friend and Lover! I wish all of us would have fall in love with God so intimately and deeply that they would feel like they were the only person in the entire universe with God!

 

[IAmZamzam]

I just cannot believe he has Phd. PhD in what? He cannot even perform basic critical thinking.

Do you really find that to be a less common trait among the learned than the unlearned?

 

[truth finder]

Preaching a faith other than Islam or inviting others to that faith, is against the rules of the forum. I hope the mods will either edit the above post, or do what they deem fit, and then delete this post of mine if necessary.



Source: http://www.islamicboard.com/faq.php?faq=islamic_forum_rules#faq

I have shared the story with various groups of other people including our friends, which was just copied and pasted here. If you feel uncomfortable with the word “invite”, I will not use the word in the future.

 

[جوري]

Do you really find that to be a less common trait among the learned than the unlearned?

I'd have to say for someone who introduces himself as a PhD undoubtedly hoping his PhD (albeit in under water basket-weaving and perhaps tandem biking) would loan some weightiness to his vision, purpose of thread and direction that we should expect to be slightly dazzled with persuasions that require some thought on our part at least during that portion of the day when we brush our teeth-- but aside from the patent lunacy and if at all lucid when he writes sophistry there is nothing here but laughable premises that have positively no relevance to thread or points raised. worse yet he can't even acknowledge the error of his ways and persists in his folly spite of repeated remonstrations that are cited from esteemed journals.

Why should anyone be forgiving of that whether or not he holds this alleged PhD?