LI/IB Politics

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Should we create this idea? :DD (Why not?!)


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:sl:

I was thinking, in the world section members debate with each other. However, sometimes we get off topic and argue for days and other members gang up on other members (lol).

How about we have a debate section to complement this new section? Only two members will be allowed to debate against each other in a controlled setting. It is based on one topic, there is a time limit and once the time limit expires, other members can vote to see which member has presented the best arguments. As for the time limit, I suggest 48 hours? Two days to finish.

(Waiting to get pwned)
 
:sl:

I was thinking, in the world section members debate with each other. However, sometimes we get off topic and argue for days and other members gang up on other members (lol).

How about we have a debate section to complement this new section? Only two members will be allowed to debate against each other in a controlled setting. It is based on one topic, there is a time limit and once the time limit expires, other members can vote to see which member has presented the best arguments. As for the time limit, I suggest 48 hours? Two days to finish.

(Waiting to get pwned)

As I said, these are ideas that may definitely be incorporated after the idea gets passed. First step is clicking on that "Yes" ;D
 
It's just a political role playing thing. >_< We basically vote issues, put up our political opinions etc.


Could you provide your evidence for that? :S Consultation was always apart of the Prophet (Salallallahu alayhe wasallam)'s decision.

naam akhi let me say that I am now here talking about democracy i know your niyah is none of what i will mention below but the fact is that it is democracy

* It is the ruling by the people, for the people. It is not rule by Allah's revelation.
* The laws are determined by the whims and fancies of men rather than the book of Allah and the Sunnah. Therefore adultery, fornication and homosexuality even become lawful under the state.
* It makes the believer and the disbeliever, the one who fears Allah and the sinner and the man and the woman the same in making a decision to have leadership.
* It is a system that has come from the Kuffar to rule countries worldwide.
* It contains cheating, deception and backbiting on the electoral platforms.
* It does not truly secure the 5 essential human rights which are protection of the self, the intellect, the progeny, the religion and property. For in a democracy the intellect is not protected because alcohol is legalized, one's progeny is not protected because the man or woman can have relations with anyone and this "fair and just system" as Muslims call it protects their rights as fornicators.
* Seeking of leadership
plus many more
 
naam akhi let me say that I am now here talking about democracy i know your niyah is none of what i will mention below but the fact is that it is democracy

* It is the ruling by the people, for the people. It is not rule by Allah's revelation.
* The laws are determined by the whims and fancies of men rather than the book of Allah and the Sunnah. Therefore adultery, fornication and homosexuality even become lawful under the state.
* It makes the believer and the disbeliever, the one who fears Allah and the sinner and the man and the woman the same in making a decision to have leadership.
* It is a system that has come from the Kuffar to rule countries worldwide.
* It contains cheating, deception and backbiting on the electoral platforms.
* It does not truly secure the 5 essential human rights which are protection of the self, the intellect, the progeny, the religion and property. For in a democracy the intellect is not protected because alcohol is legalized, one's progeny is not protected because the man or woman can have relations with anyone and this "fair and just system" as Muslims call it protects their rights as fornicators.
* Seeking of leadership
plus many more

Quite precisely my point. Democracy was in the lack of better words. But we'll be discussing and voting for/against these issues. Which country do you live in? If you live in UK or US, I'll be very ashamed.

As a Muslim, you can vote for Shariah Law indirectly. For example, homosexuality, vote against it. Simple as that. But if you're going to sit at home and just watch others vote Yes on it, then there is no one to blame but yourself and all those who didn't vote.
 
akhi barak Allah feek i live in the states atm but that is besides the point VOTING Democracy is not from islam and scholars have talked about this warned agaisnt and you are advising me to vote? as a matter of fact this is from taughut as well and Allah has told us to disblieve in it akhi Allah tells us if you dont know ask the people of knowldge
 
Bedouin says he'd change his answer to yes if I put up my position for grabs in this newly formed government on LI. ;P Not happening, anyhow.
 
akhi barak Allah feek i live in the states atm but that is besides the point VOTING Democracy is not from islam and scholars have talked about this warned agaisnt and you are advising me to vote?

You're telling me that scholars have told you to abstain from voting on something such as Homosexuality? So you're taking a neutral stance on that then? If you're not going to vote, then these laws will just slip right past you. We live in a country, we follow the laws of the land. What you're talking about is Shari'ah law, but we do not live in a country wherein Shariah law is practiced.
 
akhi barak Allah feek i live in the states atm but that is besides the point VOTING Democracy is not from islam and scholars have talked about this warned agaisnt and you are advising me to vote?

It does depend upon which school of thought you follow. IslamQA states voting is not permissible while IslamOnline states voting is permissible under defined circumstances such as the Muslim community will benefit. There is no country in the world that implements the full Sharia following the collapse of the Ottoman empire.
 
Bedouin says he'd change his answer to yes if I put up my position for grabs in this newly formed government on LI. ;P Not happening, anyhow.

Well, prove just how much you are keen on this idea. Let's see if you are willing to do whatever it takes for that one last vote. :p
 
By the way, Brother Umar^111, I really hope you don't take offense from what I am saying. I might have gotten into the heat of the moment. I respect your opinion and can see where you are coming from. I haven't voted ever, personally speaking.

The idea I'm proposing to IslamicBoard is mainly a new form of discussing, promoting ideas, and I do expect it to be less rowdy and more respectful. As someone mentioned earlier, people can form their own coalitions to promote their opinion and people can choose accordingly.

It's just a suggestion I slipped in. The call is in all your hands.
 
I want to be the next president of Li. Bring true democracy please, you dictating tyrant...
 
There are many people who when they see the statement of Shaikh Muqbil that Democracy is a Taaghuut they may not understand exactly what he means since many thing that the Taaghuut is only confined to idols.

However Ibnul Qayyim Al Jawzeeyah divided the Taaghuut into five and to summarize they are:

* The Shaitaan
* One who calls to the worship of himself
* One who is worshipped and is pleased with it.
* One who says he knows the unseen
* One who judges other than by what Allah has revealed {believing it to be correct}

The point of reference here is the final category. And the Daleel for this final category is the statement of Allah ta'ala: "And whoever rules by other than what Allah has revealed then they are disbelievers." And also Allah said about the Kuffar: "...They want to rule each other by the Taghuut and they were ordered to disbelieve in it..."

Now if we look at the system of democracy it falls into the category of this Taaghuut because of the following reasons:

* It is the ruling by the people, for the people. It is not rule by Allah's revelation.
* The laws are determined by the whims and fancies of men rather than the book of Allah and the Sunnah. Therefore adultery, fornication and homosexuality even become lawful under the state.
* It makes the believer and the disbeliever, the one who fears Allah and the sinner and the man and the woman the same in making a decision to have leadership.
* It is a system that has come from the Kuffar to rule countries worldwide.
* It contains cheating, deception and backbiting on the electoral platforms.
* It does not truly secure the 5 essential human rights which are protection of the self, the intellect, the progeny, the religion and property. For in a democracy the intellect is not protected because alcohol is legalized, one's progeny is not protected because the man or woman can have relations with anyone and this "fair and just system" as Muslims call it protects their rights as fornicators.
* Seeking of leadership

And other matters which I have written about in detail.

Upon this we have to know what Kufr (disbelief) in Taaguut means. The Ulama have said that disbelief in Taghuut is to believe that it is false and to distance oneself completely from it. Hence, upon this it is upon the Muslims to believe that democracy is false and to stay away from anything associated with it. Because the one who participates in an action associated to something Haraam has in fact done Haraam.

Therefore, when someone tells you that democracy is simply a witness of a person's competence to lead. Then we say to him that this is an evil Shahadah (شهادة الزور) since democracy is a Taaghuut and we have been told to believe that is false and disassociate ourselves from it. And elections are part are parcel of the democratic system, in fact it is the meat and the core of it. Without elections there is no democracy!

So how can it be that the person is not participating in Taghuut (Kufr, Shirk) when in fact voting is the core of this Taghuut called Democracy? This is really and truly an argument that does not stand on any logic whatsoever.

And as for voting for a woman this has been clarified with the evidence from the Sunnah several times. That a people will never be successful once they put a woman as their ruler. And when a person goes to the polls and votes for a woman leader that is exactly what he is doing.

And I ask those who wish to elect a woman is their leader; all of us know that your wives cannot be seen as the ones who have leadership of the home even though she may be "capable." So if as Muslim men cannot let our pious wives rule us in our own homes how can it be that it is permissible to elect a corrupt woman to govern our whole country?

"How can you judge the matter as such?"

Lastly I have to comment on those Salfatees (Shaikh Muqbil called those who practice Salafeeyah and Democracy this) who use the rulings of some of our scholars regarding voting. Islam requires of us to follow the evidences wherever it may be from whoever it may be.

Therefore, since there is overwhelming evidence that voting is the core of the Taghuut (Democracy) and therefore Haraam how can one who claims to follow this 'Aqeedah and Minhaaj say that voting is Halaal? Respecting the 'Ulama is not by following every single statement they say hook line and sinker but rather it is by respecting and following the methodology of the Ulama. So those who choose to take the opinions of a specific scholar and abandon their methodology in taking the evidences wherever it may be has in fact disrespected all the scholars and is in following his desires.

May Allah open our eyes.


Sheikh Ahmed bin Yahya An Najmee on Voting and Elections

Today (February 27, 2007) the Sheikh was asked the following question:


Questioner: Oh beloved Sheikh, what is the ruling on Muslims in America taking part in voting and elections, if they feel this will somehow benefit Islam and the Muslims?

Sheikh: The system of elections is an innovation and it is not permissible for the Muslims to participate in them alongside the disbelievers.

Questioner: The reason for their participation, is that if they support and vote for an individual running for a particular position; even if this person is a disbeliever, this person will in turn give the Muslims land for building schools and masjids.

Sheikh: Oh my brother, is it permissible for the Muslims to enter into innovations and join and work with the disbelievers to obtain something that may take place, or may not?! This is not correct in my opinion.


No. 48. If someone asks you: What is the ruling on voting and elections?

Then say:

They are from the democratic laws that seek to destroy Allah's true legislation. They are also considered imitation of the disbelievers, and imitating them is not permissible. There is much harm present in them, and there is niether benefit nor gain for the Muslims (in them).

From their most significant harms are:

- (They promote) equality between truth and falsehood, and between the truthful people and those upon falsehood, according to and based on the majority (of votes)

- Elimination of (the foundations and beliefs of) loyalty and disloyalty

- Rupture the unity of the Muslims

They bring about:

- Hatred
- Enmity
- Factionism
- Fanaticism between the Muslims

They also cause:

- Deception
- Trickery
- Fraud
- Falsehood

They waste time, money, remove the modesty from the female, along with disrupting a Muslim's trust in Islamic knowledge and its people (the scholars)

Source: Al Mabadee Al Mufeedah fit Tawheed wal Fiqh wal Aqeedah - Basic Priniciples regarding Tawheed, Islamic Jurisprudence, and Belief- new Arabic print pg. 29 #48

Shaykh Saalih al-Fawzaan said:

quote:
... And as for the elections [that are] well-known [and implemented] today in the various nations, then they are not from the Islamic order. Chaos, personal aspirations enter into them, as do greed and favouritism (bias).

Tribulations and the shedding of blood result from them and the desired goal is not attained by them. Rather, they are just a ground for bids (i.e. campaigns), buying and selling and false claims.

The Ruling on Elections and Demonstrations Al-Jareedat ul-Jazeerah, Issue 11358, Ramadaan 1424 (3rd September 2003).

and many more but i will leave that at this i will not post on this thread anymore so if you dont know a matter ask those of knowldge

akhi ProfessorSunday it doesnt matter if there is a differnce or not we look for haqq not ikhtilaf Barak Allah feek



Asalamu alaykum
 
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It does depend upon which school of thought you follow. IslamQA states voting is not permissible while IslamOnline states voting is permissible under defined circumstances such as the Muslim community will benefit. There is no country in the world that implements the full Sharia following the collapse of the Ottoman empire.
Jazakumullahu Khair for that information, ProfessorSunday. That was definitely relevant to the short discussion Umar^111 and I were talking at hand.

Well, prove just how much you are keen on this idea. Let's see if you are willing to do whatever it takes for that one last vote. :p
Well, it's simply a proposal. Don't start getting the hopes of everyone sky high. I'm comfortable seating right in my throne chair.
I want to be the next president of Li. Bring true democracy please, you dictating tyrant...

Me? A Tryannt? Pish Posh! If I were a Hitler, I'd already have this idea in place and having all you haters banned. But yeah, can't do that.
 
Some people need to chilllll

USA! USA!
usa-1.gif
 
^ Not everyone on the forum is from the US,most are from Europe,some are from Canada,very multicultural so that won't get many supporters:D
 
naam akhi let me say that I am now here talking about democracy i know your niyah is none of what i will mention below but the fact is that it is democracy

:sl:

Lets establish what is democracy. According to my Microsoft Word dictionary, democracy means:

Representation of people: the right to a form of government in which power is invested in the people as a whole, usually exercised on their behalf by elected representatives

Democracy is not a western concept. It means the majority decide who can govern their own country. There are different styles of democracies.

They are from the democratic laws that seek to destroy Allah's true legislation. They are also considered imitation of the disbelievers, and imitating them is not permissible. There is much harm present in them, and there is niether benefit nor gain for the Muslims (in them).

I'm sorry but an ideology cannot destroy Allah's true legislation. Democracy can lead to the Sharia being established. For example, in America, the majority vote and decide to establish the Sharia. Yes, very unlikely.

They bring about:

- Hatred
- Enmity
- Factionism
- Fanaticism between the Muslims

I disagree...I'm sorry but Muslims around a world do a great job hating each other with or without democracy.

- Deception
- Trickery
- Fraud
- Falsehood

Like in dictatorships and monarchies and in any other system. It depends who is in power. In any system, the person in power can deceive the public. Some systems make this more difficult than others.

akhi ProfessorSunday it doesnt matter if there is a differnce or not we look for haqq not ikhtilaf Barak Allah feek

Why? Scholars disagree, and we should be aware of those differences.

Overall, what you are describing to me appears to be western style of democracy. I will address your remaining points later.
 
Overall, what you are describing to me appears to be western style of democracy. I will address your remaining points later.

I applaud the effort, but don't assume he'll listen to reason... It seems like he's bent on believing what he wants to. :(


Anyway, long live America! Long live Democracy! Down with Rashad!!!

U.S.A! U.S.A! Yeahhhh!!!
251269-21583-uncle-sam_super.jpg


Ah, this thread has me feeling patriotic :D
 
^^ this guy looks so gay I feel like he is going to break into it is raining men and take off his Velcro polyester suit ....ugh
 
τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ;1385956 said:
^^ this guy looks so gay I feel like he is going to break into it is raining men and take off his Velcro polyester suit ....ugh

Hahaha, it was the most awkward Uncle Sam picture I could find. :D
 

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