What do non-Muslims want from Muslims?

[Pygoscelis]

What titus said.

And to refrain from sheltering, condoning, or calling violent radicals "brothers" and "sisters", and from automatically siding with fellow muslims even when they are clearly in the wrong, just because they are muslims.

Not necessary, but speaking out against high profile events like 9/11 also helps, as does reacting to negative actions done against them in a good and sensible manner. The reaction from muslims following the "9/11 mosque" and quran burning fiasco was examplary. It was calm and reasoned. More of that would help. We see some christians do this as well sometimes, a calm sort of "I feel bad that somebody could be so filled with hate against us and I pray for them to find peace" sort of response. Contrast that to the reaction to the cartoons. That reaction to the cartoons did more harm to my view of muslims and Islam than the cartoons themselves could have ever done.

 

[IAmZamzam]

Funny how all of this started with me simply asking Grace Seeker to go ahead and spit something out already. I did not mean my question as some sort of call for round table discussion on deep, philosophical interpretations of it.

 

[Grace Seeker]

Whether meant in the way it developed or not, we still appreciate the request for information and opportunity to share. Hopefully we've provided the other information you sought as well.

 

[Perseveranze]

You're going to have to go longer in your explanation. Maybe we should have a thread dedicated to Muslims making their case that there is a second crusade going on today. What you see as history repeating itself, I don't see. The motives, locations, and participants today are different.

 

[titus]

I got to the part of the video where he describes what non-Muslims mean when they say fundamentalist. Once he proved himself wrong on that point I stopped listening.

 

[Grace Seeker]

And I watched it and still have no idea how this relates to the explanation I requested.


But talk about gross generalizations. He frequently phrases things as such: "They are...." "They think...." they this and they that without ever identifying who "they" is. He simply presents it as if the "they"s he references can apply to the whole of western societies, cultures, nations, governments, and people. On one occassion even quotes something directly, without naming the source of the quote. It makes a big difference if the person he is quoting is a government official or a political talking-head pundit, but there is no way to know from his presentation.


I reiterate. One thing this non-Muslims wants from Muslims is for Muslims to quit speaking of non-Muslims as if we are all part of some monolithic entity.

 

[IAmZamzam]

Only if all the non-Muslims attacking Islam in similar ways will also stop looking at Muslims as a single monolithic entity. And you know what kind of day in hell it will be when either occurs.

 

[sister herb]

Some days ago I read new about assasination thread against wikileak leader from senior advisor and strategist to the Canadian Prime Minister.

So Wikileak leader may not be muslim neither that advisor. Are they possible christians or what? Can I say asking to kill someone is wrong even it is not religion but seems so political matter?

*confused*

 

[Grace Seeker]

Only if all the non-Muslims attacking Islam in similar ways will also stop looking at Muslims as a single monolithic entity. And you know what kind of day in hell it will be when either occurs.

Not all non-Muslims do this. But Islam itself likes to teach that there is one Ummah. The speaker in the video that Perseveranze wanted me to watch actually seems to promote the idea that the world can be divided into Muslims and non-Muslims and one of his prime objections was that he saw the "they" he was attacking as seeking to divide Muslims into different smaller groups. So, be advised that it isn't just non-Muslims that you have to convince that Muslims are not a monolithic entity.

But as far as your point goes on this forum, I agree. We non-Muslims who are here need to recognize individuality within Islam as much as we ask it from Muslims. I don't think we have to wait for cold day in hell for that to happen. Start where we can, with you and me, and then see if others will join us.

 

[Grace Seeker]

Some days ago I read new about assasination thread against wikileak leader from senior advisor and strategist to the Canadian Prime Minister.

So Wikileak leader may not be muslim neither that advisor. Are they possible christians or what? Can I say asking to kill someone is wrong even it is not religion but seems so political matter?

*confused*

I'm confused as well, Sister Harb.

I know very little about wikileaks. I've not read any substantatiated reports of there being serious threats made against Julian Assange, other than that he is wanted in Sweden on a rape charge. It would of course be wrong to threaten him with assassination, let alone to plot to actually do it. It matters not what his politics nor his religion are. And not only can you say that, you already have.

But my confusion, Sister Harb, is not with the above details, but rather that I don't see what any of that has to do with the topic at hand.

 

[Ramadhan]

But Islam itself likes to teach that there is one Ummah

I very much doubt the non-muslims who normally attack islam would know that 'Islam itself likes to teach that there is one ummah".

 

[Argamemnon]

Non-Muslims want us to abandon our religion and become like them; that's what the Quran says.

Secondly, most non-Muslims (including non-Muslims on this forum) don't realize that most conflicts throughout the world are caused by the West and not by Muslims. Muslims are the victims of western aggression and state terrorism and various forms of "interventions" - the latest example being the assasination of Iranian nuclear scientists :raging:

 

[Perseveranze]

Not all non-Muslims do this. But Islam itself likes to teach that there is one Ummah. The speaker in the video that Perseveranze wanted me to watch actually seems to promote the idea that the world can be divided into Muslims and non-Muslims and one of his prime objections was that he saw the "they" he was attacking as seeking to divide Muslims into different smaller groups. So, be advised that it isn't just non-Muslims that you have to convince that Muslims are not a monolithic entity

Asalaamu Alaikum,

I think what he's saying is that the Muslims are already divided at this moment in time, and the western Governments want to keep it that way, ever since (I think nearly 80 years ago) when the Last Caliphate fell. There are alot of organizations and campaigns at the moment that are trying to promote support for a United Ummah under a single Caliphate once again.

This campaign (though not as strong right now) really peaked during Gaza Strip bombings by Isreal. 1.5 Billion people in the world first and foremost turned to the Muslim Leaders to in any way stop the injustice from happening, but because of division and disunity, nothing happened. This is just an example mixed with a personal opinion, that at this moment in time, the Ummah is not as united as it would've liked to be and governments of the world are happy to keep it that way, I'm sure they have their own reasons for this.

 

[Argamemnon]

The second thing that we want is more Muslims who represent their faith in the manner as did the Islamic community this past weekend in Portland, OR. For those who may not have heard the news an Oregon teen attempted to blow up a car bomb at a large Christmastree-lighting ceremony. The teen actually carried out his plans, but was thwarted because the bomb that he attempted to detonate was a fake he had actually obtained, not from co-conspirators, but from the FBI. Reports are the Muslim community in Portland assisted the FBI and issued a strong condemnation of the terrorist attempt.

As the father of the Iman at the mosque which the young man would occassionally attend said, that Mohamud was e-mailing someone in Pakistan shows nobody in the U.S. supported his extremist ideology. "He's reaching for people outside because he doesn't find any terrorists here." It might seem obvious and something that should go without saying, but we need to hear that as well.

There are 4-5 million orphans in Iraq due to U.S state terrorism.

 

[Ramadhan]

Secondly, most non-Muslims (including non-Muslims on this forum) don't realize that most conflicts throughout the world are caused by the West and not by Muslims.

Exactly.
If you scrutinize world history from 0 AD to December 2010 AD, you will be able to see very clearly who killed the most, who plundered the most, who destroyed the most.
And yet, these days we often hear that Islam teaches violence and that muslims are murderous.

very sick and cunning, eh?

As Allah SWT says in the Qur'an, we need to re-check and confirm the news if it is coming from kaafirun, munafiqqun or musyrikin, and should not take it at face value especially if it is related to or has any impacts on muslims well-being.

 

[Argamemnon]

Agreed, though on rare occassions a person has shown up (and then usually disappeared) who did express support for them.

Just like millions of Americans supporting American terror in Afghanistan and Iraq and elsewhere?

 

[Argamemnon]

Exactly.
If you scrutinize world history from 0 AD to December 2010 AD, you will be able to see very clearly who killed the most, who plundered the most, who destroyed the most.
And yet, these days we often hear that Islam teaches violence and that muslims are murderous.

very sick and cunning, eh?

As Allah SWT says in the Qur'an, we need to re-check and confirm the news if it is coming from kaafirun, munafiqqun or musyrikin, and should not take it at face value especially if it is related to or has any impacts on muslims well-being.

Exactly brother naidamar, well said. Muslims should never expose themselves to western media or else they will be brainwashed and become their servant...

Whenever westerners speak about "Islamic terrorism" we should immediately confront them with facts about western terrorism and aggression, which is the root cause of most conflicts. Islamic terrorism (in most cases) is merely a reaction to western terrorism.

 

[Grace Seeker]

There are 4-5 million orphans in Iraq due to U.S state terrorism.

This non-Muslim would like Muslims to speak closer to the truth when it comes to the blame they cast on the US. Most of the deaths in Iraq where NOT the result of the US military, but of Sunni on Shia and Shia on Sunni violence.


Also when casting about stats such as this, please provide sources, and where possible links to those sources. I've seen some quotes blaming the US for more deaths than people who actually lived in the country.

 

[Grace Seeker]

Whenever westerners speak about "Islamic terrorism" we should immediately confront them with facts about western terrorism and aggression, which is the root cause of most conflicts. Islamic terrorism (in most cases) is merely a reaction to western terrorism.

That sounds like something for the "What do Muslims want from non-Muslims?" thread.

 

[Grace Seeker]

Non-Muslims want us to abandon our religion and become like them; that's what the Quran says.

Then the Qur'an is in error. Most non-Muslims couldn't care less about Islam either pro or con.