What would convince you to become Muslim?

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The only amazing thing about the Quran is that we don't know who wrote it.
The number of blunders in it, its simplistic sayings in a number of verses, its poor literary style in some passages, the unability to distinguish between orthodox and heterodox Jewish and Christians beliefs, its lack of theological originality, all that points to a human and not divine origin.
 
The only amazing thing about the Quran is that we don't know who wrote it.
The number of blunders in it, its simplistic sayings in a number of verses, its poor literary style in some passages, the unability to distinguish between orthodox and heterodox Jewish and Christians beliefs, its lack of theological originality, all that points to a human and not divine origin.

Peace:

WOW, you know what never fails to amaze me, are people who make such comments, and yet, non-muslim, famous, respected literary and religious scholars for centuries claim the writing style is nothing short of genius....a masterpiece. And, even though the challenge in the Qur'an to produce a surah like it has never been done, people continue to make such comments. I would be very interested in seeing your contribution to the challenge, mansio :)

Now, as far as errors go, rather than just making statements, you should back them with proof. Just because you say so, doesn't make it so. Your post was a copout. Like say whatever you want and run....doesn't matter if it's true or not. You are free to have your opinion, of course, but opinions don't mean much if you can't provide reasons for what you say. They become meaningless words. :hmm:

Looking forward to your reply.

Hana
 
Some blunders of the Quran: man created from clay; there is no doubt in the Quran (2:2) but it contains verses that are ambiguous (3:7); the heart is the seat of thinking (18:57, 22:46); in 3:78 it is stated that everything comes from God and in the following verse that bad things come from oneself; the Jews considered Uzair as son of God; they and Christians took their rabbis and monks as gods (Rabb is another name for God).

Simplistic sayings: the Abu Lahab story; beat one's wife; (3:36) God knows that a boy is not a girl; the proofs of the existence of God is the rain from the sky or the cattle in the fields.

Poor literary style: did God really write such suras as 109 and 111 ?

Unability to distinguish between orthodox and unorthodox scriptures: 7:11 3:49 3:44 5:30 21:51-71 27:16-44 2-102 etc...

Lack of theological originality: what is in the Quran that cannot be found in other scriptures ?
 
Hana

Fake suras have already been produced. Remember the impact it had in Egypt a few years ago, so that AOL had to withdraw them from the internet.

Could you remind me of the conditions needed to write fake suras ?
 
Poor literary style: did God really write such suras as 109 and 111 ?

Well, I am impressed that you are a fluent arabic speaker. :)

Because I am not an arabic speaker and can only rely on the translated meanings of the Holy Qur'an in English, I will leave this for those who speak the arabic language. Will respond to the rest shortly, inshallah :)

Hana
 
Some blunders of the Quran: man created from clay; there is no doubt in the Quran (2:2) but it contains verses that are ambiguous (3:7); the heart is the seat of thinking (18:57, 22:46); in 3:78 it is stated that everything comes from God and in the following verse that bad things come from oneself; the Jews considered Uzair as son of God; they and Christians took their rabbis and monks as gods (Rabb is another name for God).

Simplistic sayings: the Abu Lahab story; beat one's wife; (3:36) God knows that a boy is not a girl; the proofs of the existence of God is the rain from the sky or the cattle in the fields.

Poor literary style: did God really write such suras as 109 and 111 ?

Unability to distinguish between orthodox and unorthodox scriptures: 7:11 3:49 3:44 5:30 21:51-71 27:16-44 2-102 etc...

Lack of theological originality: what is in the Quran that cannot be found in other scriptures ?


May Allah guide you and lift the veil that sheilds your eyes to the light of this beautiful religion. If you still have your quran, please read 2:4, verse 5 and keep reading. Allah is telling you who this book is for. There is no way on God's green earth is a true slave of Allah going to read this and think "hey... mansio from the internet is right... the quran ain't nothing to make a hoopla about." Again, may Allah guide you.
 
Hana

Fake suras have already been produced. Remember the impact it had in Egypt a few years ago, so that AOL had to withdraw them from the internet.

Could you remind me of the conditions needed to write fake suras ?

Ummmm, you proved my point. Fake surahs produced by someone trying to take up the challenge and obviously failed. Honestly, I never heard of that incident, but I'm not saying it didn't happen. It doesn't make a difference though....the fact is they were proven false.

Don't forget, the Qur'an has been memorized by thousands, not just one or two, since it was revealed, and we have the original compiled text. If someone tried to add to it....they would be caught immediately. The challenge is to produce a surah like it...in perfect writing style, with no errors. You don't even have to try to produce a fake surah....just produce one like it. It's never been done, as you have just shown.

Hana
 
Not to mention, hana, produce a surah like it in the language that it was delivered. OR.... without even needing to produce a surah... try learning arabic!! See how easy that language is to learn! I know people who have studied in arabic countries for decades and STILL only know about 70% of the language! As opposed to spanish or english.. which would take about 2 years-- TOPS --- to learn. Or hebrew... which is like 6 months. Now, take a language that is that intricate, and produce a surah like that which is in the quran.
 
Hana

When the Quran challenges people to produce a sura, a few verses, or whatever (I don't know the exact conditions), it is of course assumed that those suras will be fake suras, because they will be like the style of the Quran but they will not be the Quran. I think the Quran only asks the verses to be similar "min mithlihi".
 
Sumay

Are you telling me that God made a mistake by choosing such a difficult language as Arabic ? What you imply contradicts the Quran being written in clear, easy to understand Arabic.

Btw, if you had lessons on Semitic languages at school you should know that Hebrew and Arabic are related languages and both as hard to learn.
 
Some blunders of the Quran: man created from clay;

To be honest, I'm a little confused about what you're asking here. Are you saying man was not produced from clay? I will assume you are and offer this for your perusal:

"He began the creation of man from dust. Then He made his progeny of an extract of water held in light esteem. Then He made him complete and breathed into him of His spirit and made for you ears and eyes and heart." (As-Sajdah: 7-9)

If we take dust and add water to it, it will become mud. Over time, it will become clay. This is explaining the stages of how man was created. Initially as dust then clay after adding water. If you look at this with a logical mind, you will see that man is dependant on these very things for survival. Earth is required for growing plants for food and water is required for all things, without it, man would die.

"Scientists have analyzed the human body and found that it is composed of 16 substances including oxygen and manganese. These elements are no more than the elements of the earth’s crust. This experiment was not meant for proving the credibility of the Qur'an; rather, it was solely for scientific research purposes...."According to the latest scientific researches, man has been created from clay with all its elements and their inherent properties. It is discovered by a chemical analysis of the human body that a defect occurs in its normal functioning when the quantity of any of these element gets diminished. In such cases, minerals are used to supplement the deficiency and restore normal health." ( as reported by Sheikh Muhammad Mutwalli Ash-Sha`rawi, a prominent Muslim scholar)

Hana
 
Hana

When the Quran challenges people to produce a sura, a few verses, or whatever (I don't know the exact conditions), it is of course assumed that those suras will be fake suras, because they will be like the style of the Quran but they will not be the Quran. I think the Quran only asks the verses to be similar "min mithlihi".

What I meant was, you don't even have to claim they are true....write a verse, in the original arabic language with the same, error-free, style, etc., as the Holy Qur'an and submit it. Claim it to be true or not....it doesn't make a difference. The challenge is to produce one like it. Not to try to pass it as truth. But, you can do that if you want. :)

Hana
 
Sumay

Are you telling me that God made a mistake by choosing such a difficult language as Arabic ? What you imply contradicts the Quran being written in clear, easy to understand Arabic.

Btw, if you had lessons on Semitic languages at school you should know that Hebrew and Arabic are related languages and both as hard to learn.

No, Sumay isn't saying that at all. The Qur'an was delivered in the language of our Prophet, pbuh. Not much point in delivering it in english seeing as english wasn't a language at the time. The beauty of Arabic is that many words are only used for one specific thing. Let me explain. Allah, in arabic, stands alone. It cannot be made masculine, feminine, plural or made compound. Whereas the closest translation in English is God. However, this word can become feminine: goddess; plural: gods; compound: godfather, etc.

So, that's why we say the translated Qur'an, is simply an explanation of meanings, and cannot be translated exactly. That's also why, it's very important to read the Qur'an in the original language of arabic.

And yes, you're right, Aramaic, Hebrew, Arabic and others....alll sister languages.

Hana
 
Are you kidding me!! Hebrew is a short language, dude. Anyone can learn it in like.. six months. And what I am implying is that to produce such poetry in that language during that time isn't exactly a piece of cake!
 
the heart is the seat of thinking (18:57, 22:46);

The surahs and ayats you list, don't seem to match what you're saying. But, if you're trying to say the Qur'an says we think with our heart, you are mistaken. If you would like to post the verse you are referring to, perhaps it would be more clear. But, as we all know, the heart is the central part of our body....without it....well, we wouldn't be doing much thinking, would we. :)

Hana
 
Some blunders of the Quran: man created from clay; there is no doubt in the Quran (2:2) but it contains verses that are ambiguous (3:7); the heart is the seat of thinking (18:57, 22:46); in 3:78 it is stated that everything comes from God and in the following verse that bad things come from oneself; the Jews considered Uzair as son of God; they and Christians took their rabbis and monks as gods (Rabb is another name for God).

Simplistic sayings: the Abu Lahab story; beat one's wife; (3:36) God knows that a boy is not a girl; the proofs of the existence of God is the rain from the sky or the cattle in the fields.

Poor literary style: did God really write such suras as 109 and 111 ?

Unability to distinguish between orthodox and unorthodox scriptures: 7:11 3:49 3:44 5:30 21:51-71 27:16-44 2-102 etc...

Lack of theological originality: what is in the Quran that cannot be found in other scriptures ?

In response to your accusations: -

Man created from clay.

Can you prove mankind wasnt created from clay? You assume to much knowledge if you think otherwise, if you present this to a learned, skilled doctor or scientist, they would never say "that's incorrect". Do you know what we're made from? Not what we are made OF, but what we are made from?

No Doubt in the Quran.

No doubt in its authenticity. No doubt in the way of errors or contradiction. in 3:7, it mentions verses which are more open to interpretation or discussion (juxtaposed with verses that are completely clear and leave no room for different interpretations). What you're doing is playing with English words with an Arabic Quran. It's a stupid trick and doesn't convince anyone.

Heart is the seat of thinking.

Islam is something that must be considered with the heart as well as the mind. The heart here is not literal, it's the heart you feel with, consider with, trust with. Also, right now, you are using your brain perfectly fine to bring these accusations, yet your heart isn't truly considering any of what you say. Read the verses with your heart, maybe Allah will guide you (insha'Allah).

PS: Will you attack me because I asked you to read with your heart, when you literaly read with your eyes and mind?

Verse 3:78

You quoted the wrong verse. Perhaps you mean 3:165.

(What is the matter with you?) When a single disaster smites you, although you smote (your enemies) with one twice as great, you say: "From where does this come to us?" Say (to them), "It is from yourselves (because of your evil deeds)." And Allah has power over all things.

Either way, it's not a contradiction. You're just trying to make them conflict (anything can be made to conflict if you want it to). Everything comes from Allah since he is Al-Fatir, Al-Khaliq. The Orginator, the Creator.

Abu Lahab story.

What's your point??

Beat ones wife.


This has been explained many places, many times. Go to the main site (www.load-islam.com) and look it up.

Verse 3:36

Read the whole verse and consider what it's saying. I don't feel it's anyones responsiblity to spoon-feed you information and explanation. You call it simplisitic without right, the importance of those lines are seen if considered within the whole story.
The proofs of the existence of God is the rain from the sky or the cattle in the fields.

They are. Although if your over your heart is a covering, why should anything be proof?

Now that I've finished, I have this overwhelming feeling of regret. I didn't explain anything that wasn't obvious to you. Your claim has no basis and doesn't even require to be refuted. I should have just read some more of the Nun's Priest tale or something. Man I just wasted my time.

Peace.
 
I have a question for the mansio dude. Excuse me for some of my posts, because I am not a scholar, but it hurts me to see a person on a (pointless) mission to put doubt in the hearts of believers. But I just want to ask you a question. Who do YOU think wrote the quran? And please, give me the whole shabang!! All of your research and conclusion in one post, please.
 
Salam and Peace:

I actually have to agree with Bro Azim.

Everytime I go to one of the ayats you posted, it doesn't match and to be honest, I have no clue what you're trying to say. :hmm:

Perhaps if you posted the ayat and asked the question. At least then you could check to ensure the ayats you post match what you are trying to say. :)

Hana
 
[/COLOR][/B]Now that I've finished, I have this overwhelming feeling of regret. I didn't explain anything that wasn't obvious to you. Your claim has no basis and doesn't even require to be refuted. I should have just read some more of the Nun's Priest tale or something. Man I just wasted my time.

Peace.

Brother I don't believe it was a waste of time at all. I enjoyed reading it. You're absolutely right. What puts my hijab in a bunch is that a disbeliever tries to act like they know the quran better than a believer! It is sad that this person has read this book and Allah hasn't allowed him to ponder on it. He only read it to find the faults that it does not have.
 

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