Israel Fire

[sister herb]

The Carmel wildfire is burning all illusions in Israel
Max Blumenthal writing from New York City, US, Live from Palestine, 6 December 2010

http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article11661.shtml

 

[Perseveranze]

Asalaamu Alaikum,

True.. and at the same time the Qur'an tells us to be firm against our enemies.

This is a bit different though, a fire's broken out and is spreading naturally and it's not like everyone in Isreal is bad, there's still many innocent people living there who havn't done anything to Palastinians and Allah(swt) has always taught us to be just.

"The good deed and the evil deed cannot be equal. Repel (the evil) with one which is better (i.e., Allah orders the faithful believers to be patient at the time of anger, and to excuse those who treat them badly)'' (41:34)

This one is best;

"Thus We have made you* a Wasat (just) (and the best) nation, that you be witnesses over mankind." [Al-Baqara 2:143]

What Palastine did was a great thing Mashallah, may Allah(swt) reward them and ease their many hardship and difficulties and quicken their tests.

ps. Don't get it twisted though, I am completly against Zionists and Zionist supporters who kill innocent Palastinians, innocent brothers and sisters.

 

[Muezzin]

I just deleted 24 off-topic posts. Complaints to the usual PM imbox.

Kindly stay to the topic, and thanks to those who are trying to.

 

[Argamemnon]

That make sense to me too; at the same time, when zionist settlers almost daily set fire or try to set fire olive trees or fields which belongs to Palestinians in the West Bank, israeli occupation forces prevent Palestinian fire-fighters to come to area and extinguisher them. And same happens when those settlers set fire mosques, schools or other properties of Palestinians.

Zionists just don't care land they have stolen from others by same way than people whose know it is their own - in the West Bank zionist also destroy and poison agricultural areas and wells - making life of original inhabitants difficult and forcing them to leave. If it some day will happening, then what those zionists will get? Land they have destroyed and poisoned by themselves.

I agree, people don't hear this in mainstream western media. Hizbullah style resistance is the only way for Muslims to defend themselves. I have far more respect for those evil shias (Hizbullah) than for all sunni states combined...

 

[ya.azad]

Israel is anything but weak. Israel NEVER asks for help like this and is generally the first country to respond to natural disasters (Haiti, Indonesia, Pakistani earthquakes etc).

 

[Dagless]

Israel is anything but weak. Israel NEVER asks for help like this and is generally the first country to respond to natural disasters (Haiti, Indonesia, Pakistani earthquakes etc).

They don't need to ask for help when they're given billions in aid by the US. Saying they are generally the first country to respond is also incorrect. They didn't donate anything to the recent Pakistan floods iirc. Oh and they actually stop aid getting to some places, so hardly the actions of a charitable nation.

 

[جوري]

They don't need to ask for help when they're given billions in aid by the US. Saying they are generally the first country to respond is also incorrect. They didn't donate anything to the recent Pakistan floods iirc. Oh and they actually stop aid getting to some places, so hardly the actions of a charitable nation.

They're mostly looking for anatomical parts if they're the first to respond before anyone else can see what is going on.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/dec/21/israeli-pathologists-harvested-organs

 

[ya.azad]

You can say whatever you would like, and believe whatever you would like, but what you can't deny is that you wouldn't be bashing Israel right now if not for Israelis inventing the majority of what goes into your computer, your cellphone, probably every medicine you take etc, etc. Yes, there are Israelis who have bad intentions. There are also those who are working with what they were given and trying to stay alive every day. Israel receives money from the United States at a very heavy price: Israel has to listen to the United States and be their little *****. Israel cannot act as any other sovereign nation would because it receives aid from the US.

Oh and no, you are correct. Pakistan did not recieve aid from Israel, but MOST definitely NOT because it was not offered.
h ttp : / / despardes . com /?p=17968
BTW Israel offered $50 Million that was not accepted by Pakistan. here's the list of the other donations.
Kuwait: $5,000,000
Oman: $5,000,000
Morocco: $2,000,000
UAE: $1,519,482
Qatar: $400,000
Egypt: $250,000

More to read:

ht-tp : / / w w w.cnsnews. com/news/article/71583

"Israel frequently has sent humanitarian aid to countries in the wake of natural disasters, even offering help to hostile or unfriendly countries. (Iran turned down an Israeli offer to send a highly-regarded rescue squad to search for survivors of the Bam earthquake in 2003. It did on that occasion accept aid from the U.S. and Britain.)"

Piece links together, forum will not let me post links or images yet.

 

[جوري]

wouldn't be bashing Israel

we are not bashing Israel-- we don't recognize Israel to bash it.. be that as it may, those are also the facts and I see that you are somewhat interested in those and that indeed is what has been reported on more than one occasion.
I am not surprised that govt. like the Egyptian one takes money.. it is blood and hush money so they can close their border to the Palestinians... however I assure you that ruling family and their criminal ways don't reflect the beliefs, or hopes of the Egyptian people and I have to believe that is true as well for those true Muslims living under despotic rule east to west..

"Israel'' and Jews are different things.. I have no doubt that exists in the midst of that satanist colonial settler state some good pious Jews!

all the best

 

[Mike3449]

Israel has been weak to begin with. Israel is nothing without US and its aid. Though I was surprised that Israel has not been able to handle the fire.

When did U.S. aid to Israel begin? Let me give you a hint... they owned the Sinai...

Israel does not have to be strong. They just have to be stronger than their enemies. And, they are.

 

[Dagless]

You can say whatever you would like, and believe whatever you would like, but what you can't deny is that you wouldn't be bashing Israel right now if not for Israelis inventing the majority of what goes into your computer, your cellphone, probably every medicine you take etc, etc. Yes, there are Israelis who have bad intentions. There are also those who are working with what they were given and trying to stay alive every day. Israel receives money from the United States at a very heavy price: Israel has to listen to the United States and be their little *****. Israel cannot act as any other sovereign nation would because it receives aid from the US.

You cannot put any of those inventions in the hands of Israeli's. You can't put them in the hands of any one nation since there will always be those who did the ground work and those who did work after. Even the concepts were not Israeli. Didn't a Brit first think of idea for a computer? The phone was an Italian (even though Bell got the patent), radiowaves found by a German, etc. etc. It's a pointless conversation to have.

Oh and no, you are correct. Pakistan did not recieve aid from Israel, but MOST definitely NOT because it was not offered.
h ttp : / / despardes . com /?p=17968
BTW Israel offered $50 Million that was not accepted by Pakistan. here's the list of the other donations.
Kuwait: $5,000,000
Oman: $5,000,000
Morocco: $2,000,000
UAE: $1,519,482
Qatar: $400,000
Egypt: $250,000

Where did you get the figure of $50 million from? It's not on that site - there is no amount specified. If this is true why didn't the mainstream news channels report on it? or report on any type of offer from Israel? The site you quoted says:

"According to an Israeli website israelnationalnews.com, Israeli officials said Tuesday that they had offered assistance to Pakistan.
But the officials said they have not received an answer from Pakistan on whether or not the aid should be forwarded."

So Pakistan did not actually refuse. Besides, why is Israel waiting for an answer? Why not just donate to the humanitarian organisations like many others? That's if this story is even true - israelnationalnews.com - come on!

More to read:

ht-tp : / / w w w.cnsnews. com/news/article/71583

"Israel frequently has sent humanitarian aid to countries in the wake of natural disasters, even offering help to hostile or unfriendly countries. (Iran turned down an Israeli offer to send a highly-regarded rescue squad to search for survivors of the Bam earthquake in 2003. It did on that occasion accept aid from the U.S. and Britain.)"

Piece links together, forum will not let me post links or images yet.

I've never heard of cnsnews, but perhaps they should report on the blockade of aid to Gaza and why children weren't allowed toys until June of this year, why chocolate still isn't allowed (it's obviously a very dangerous substance), why families are being left homeless, the list goes on.

This is going off topic again but if you want to discuss Israel's humanitarian work please open a new thread and I guarantee we'll find those they've helped to be a drop in the ocean to those they've tortured/killed. I honestly cannot believe anyone would use 'humanitarian' and 'Israel' in the same sentence... unless 'bombs' was also in there.

 

[جوري]

I've never heard of cnsnews

that is central nervous system news :haha: I couldn't resist..

 

[ya.azad]

Satanist? Colonial? Hardly. Please be rational.

And Israel has NO incentive to give money to a backwards and unorganised country such as Pakistan that is such a haven for organisations such as Al Qaeda. Pakistan CAN NOT have anything to offer Israel. Yet Israel was willing to give $50 million to help the Pakistani people recover from a terrible disaster?

And if Israel really was out to get rid of the Palestinians, they would not exist. Fact. If Israel really wanted a solution to this problem and was willing to behave how you portray it, it would be 'solved'. There would be no one calling themselves Palestinians. When Israel wants someone dead, they die. Simple as that. Stuxnet virus? Iranian nuclear scientists? Yup. TAhmadinejad? No, he is a key foreign helper to Israel. By Mr. Ahmadinejad making it COMPLETELY CLEAR that he wants to destroy Israel, the majority of the world sees Iran for what it is, if there was some other manipulative and more intelligent Mullah, it would be a much worse deal for Israel.

From an objective point of view and setting down all countries next to each other, Israel is hardly an oppressive country in the scheme of things, let alone evil. Saudi Arabia is a much more oppressive country, and though evil is subjective, there is much more of an argument for the Saudis being evil than Israel. The Saud family and their friends drive around in fancy cars and live in huge palaces while the majority of the citizens are left to rot out in the desert, hardly a humane thing to do. Maybe Israel should give it a try?
Israel has most definitely pushed for peace, and has gotten slapped in the face for it. Gaza? Hamas. Lebanon? Hizballah. Sinai? incompetent egyptians who allow thousands upon thousands of Eritreans, Ethiopians, Somalians and other Africans to illegally cross the border. (albeit to get to a better life. In Israel).

Before the 1930's the "Palestinians" were the Jews living in the British Mandate of Palestine. Most of the Arabs living there identified as Syrian, Lebanese, Arabian, Turkish, Jordanian. Yes, there were Arabs living in places such as Jerusalem and Yafo, however they too identified by their roots. The biggest newspaper, "Palestine Post" was a Jewish newspaper. Jews have lived in the region that is now the State of Israel for a very long time before white European Jews began flooding the country.

I am completely against a "palestinian" state. I am also against the current state. I believe that there should be a single state ran by and cohabited by Muslims and Jews. This will not happen however, I doubt that the current state of Israel would even consider such an idealist possibility, partly due to the fact that organisations such as Hamas and Hizballah would fight it every step of the way as well. (Probably a vast majority of the inhabitants of Israel/Palestinian Territories would love for something such as this to work).

 

[جوري]

how about a crash course in the real facts?

Myths and Realities about Israel
​

Myth No. 1: About UN Partition Resolution
The UN voted in 1947 to create the State of Israel in the land between the Jordan and the Mediterranean. Israel accepted the compromise while the Arabs rejected it.

REALITY: The 1947 UN resolution is a General Assembly resolution, not a Security Council resolution. The UN General Assembly can only make recommendations. Recommendations have no obligatory character. Member states are free to accept or reject them.
Israel’s apologists are quick to say that Israel accepted this compromise. The Partition Plan granted 52% of Palestine to the Jews who were 30% of the population and owned no more than 6% of the land. This is a net gain on the part of Israel, not a compromise.
Israel’s apologists are quick to claim that the Arabs started the 1948 war. Ben-Gurion himself in Rebirth and Destiny of Israel wrote: “Until the British left, no Jewish settlement, however remote, was entered or seized by the Arabs, while the Haganah, under severe and frequent attack, captured many Arab positions and liberated Tiberias and Haifa, Jaffa and Safad” (p. 530). Israel’s military activity started well before any attack by the Arab armies.
Israel’s apologists are quick to accuse Jordan of occupying and annexing what is now called the West Bank. While not a single Arab soldier entered the area allotted to Israel in the UN resolution, Israel occupied and annexed areas in excess of what was allotted to it in the UN Partition Plan. These areas include, among other areas, the Arab cities of Nazareth, Jaffa, Acre, Lydda and Ramleh. Thus Israel expanded from 52% to 78%.
Moreover, according to the UN Partition Plan, 49% of the population of the Jewish state was supposed to be Arabs. Through a war of ethnic cleansing this percentage was reduced to 12%. The ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians was the result of a deliberate master plan, code named Plan Dalet.
In light of all the above, it is ludicrous to pretend that Israel accepted UN General Assembly Resolution 181 of 29 November 1947.



Myth No. 2: About Annexation
The military occupation of Palestinian territories has never been converted by Israel into an annexation.

REALITY: Immediately after the 1967 war, the Israeli government issued an order declaring that an area comprising the Old City of Jerusalem and some adjacent territory should be subject to the law, jurisdiction and administration of Israel. Thus Israel expanded municipal East Jerusalem from 6 km2 to 73 km2 of the West Bank. Furthermore, Jewish colonization of East Jerusalem went beyond the extended municipal boundaries to include what Israel calls Greater and Metropolitan Jerusalem comprising 330 km2 and 665 km2, respectively.
The Annexation of the Old City of Jerusalem was carried out under the Law and Administration Ordinance (Amendment No. 11 of June 27, 1967). Not only did Israel annex East Jerusalem but it also feverishly worked toward the judaization of its population by expropriating Arab land to build Jewish settlements.
As for the rest of the occupied territories, the real reason for not annexing them is the racist nature of the Zionist state. The only way for Israel to annex the occupied territories is by cleansing them of their indigenous inhabitants, following the pattern of 1948 (see Myth No. 1 above).
Furthermore, on December 14, 1981, Israel officialy annexed the Golan Heights. The legislation, extending Israeli law to the area of the Golan Heights was adopted by the Knesset by a majority of 63 against 21.



Myth No. 3: Jordan attacked first
Israel in 1967 notified Jordan that it wished to maintain non-belligerent policy between the two states and that Jordan nevertheless attacked Israel.

REALITY: “The pretence that Israel would not attack Jordan is belied by the secret decision adopted by the Israeli cabinet on June 4, 1967 (which was made public on June 4, 1972) to attack Egypt, Syria and Jordan on the following day” (Henry Cattan, Jerusalem, p.69).
Also, Israel was well aware that Jordan signed on May 30, 1967 a defense pact with Egypt, allowing Egyptians to take command of the Jordanian army.



Myth No. 4: Recognizing and making peace with Israel
When Egypt recognized and made peace with Israel in 1979 the entire Sinai was returned to Egypt.

REALITY: The purpose of such a statement is to give the impression that Israel is willing to withdraw from the land it occupied in exchange for peace. The return of the entire Sinai would be a proof of that. In this context, the name of Anwar Sadat is mentioned.
Jimmy Carter’s memoirs: Keeping the Faith: Memoirs of a President shatters this impression. Menachem Begin did not want to withdraw from the entire Sinai. For Israel to come to it senses, it necessitated the pressures that only an American President could have applied.
For Israel’s apologists to say that when the Palestinian Authority agreed to recognize and negotiate with Israel, Israel began to “transfer control of West Bank lands” is further evidence that Israel’s goal is not to achieve with the Palestinians a peace resembling the peace with Egypt, (the withdrawal from the entire occupied territories, similar to its withdrawal from the entire Sinai), but to establish another form of occupation.
Israel's defenders claim that by mid-2000 more than 90% of the Arab population of the West Bank and more than 25% of its land were under complete Palestinian control. This only demonstrates what Israel is really after: an indigenous authority controlling its indigenous population, while Israel continues to build Jewish settlements in the remaining 75% of Palestinian land. The result of such policy is the establishment of numerous disconnected Palestinian enclaves (bantustans) in a sea of settlements rendering the free movement of the Palestinians difficult, if not impossible.



Myth No. 5: Barak’s “unprecedented offer”
Israel made an “unprecedented offer” consisting of giving back 95% of the West Bank and all of Gaza. Jerusalem itself would be partitioned into Israeli and Palestinians sectors.

REALITY: The Jerusalem that is being referred to here is just the Old City of Jerusalem, not the entire East and West Jerusalems. Not only will Israel keep West Jerusalem but it also wants to partition East Jerusalem. The Palestinians, by the way, accepted to give Israel sovereignty over the Jewish holy places, something that the Israelis refused to give to the Palestinians. They rather talked about “religious sovereignty” over Haram al-Sahrif, and “autonomy” over the Christians and Muslims quarters.
The 95% of the West Bank referred to is in fact 95% minus the expanded municipal boundaries of Jerusalem, that Israel has already annexed (see Myth No. 2 above), which makes Barak’s offer more like 85% of all the West Bank.
Furthermore, the so-called Palestinian state that would have been created according to the “unprecedented offer” would have control neither over its natural resources nor over it air space (For more details see: Camp David mythology)



Myth No. 6: Israel never target civilians
Israel does not deliberately target civilians.

REALITY: How else can we qualify dropping a 2,000 pound bomb on an apartment building in a civilian neighborhood supposedly to kill one “terrorist leader”?
Also, a Jan. 3, 2003 editorial in The Washington Post had this to say: “Israeli paramilitary forces have reportedly been operating something they call ‘the lottery,’ in which they detain Palestinians and order them to choose from pieces of paper labeled with punishments such as ‘broken leg’ and ‘smashed head.’ The practice was reported by an Israeli newspaper on Dec. 22, more than a week before Amran Abu Hamediye was beaten to death.” This is what a self-censorship press revealed. What is not being reported must be even worse.



Myth No. 7: The “only democracy”
Israel is the “only democracy” in the Middle East.

REALITY: How many times have Israel’s apologists repeated this slogan? In fact, Israel is not a democracy by Western standards. Not a single Western democracy occupies another people’s land, rules another people and subjects them to all kinds of humiliations, torture and mistreatment. Israel indeed is a democracy, but a democracy by Zionist standards, just as South Africa, under the White minority rule, was a democracy by apartheid standards. It is true that Palestinians with Israeli citizenship have the right to vote in Israel. So are all the citizens of the Arab countries. This however doesn’t make them democracies. In Israel, there is no equality between Jews and non-Jews. In a Jewish state, Jews are more equal than non-Jews. It has always been that way and unless Israel becomes the country of all its citizens, it will lack the characteristics of a Western democracy.

http://www.mideastwatch.com/

 

[Dagless]

@ya.azad - Please take this to a new thread. Also stop giving your opinion; try and back up all this rubbish. Saying $50 million over and over won't make it true (I know this is the official Israeli policy).

 

[جوري]

The story of the Khazars and their kingdom Khazaria is kept a dark secret because it will destroy the Zionist claim to Palestine. The refrain that Zionists keep singing in the media that "the Jewish people are returning to the Jewish people's homeland after almost 2,000 years in exile" (see letter 32) will be meaningless, if it becomes widely known that the majority of the Jews today are, in fact, descendants of the Khazars, a non-Semitic people. The "historic connection" upon which Zionists base their claim to Palestine will turn out to be a hoax.
[SIZE=+1]The Khazarshttp://www.users.cloud9.net/~recross/israel-watch/Khazars/Khazar-list.html

no one is arguing that current middle eastern govt. are oppressive.. but they are so Israeli serving so how can you complain?




btw this has to do with Israeli fires -- not the colonial settler state of Israel so maybe we can get back to that.. I don't think either one of us is interested in the other person's purge and I am personally not interested in the fabricated biblical or political history that Israel and its advocates have created!


all the best[/SIZE]

 

[ya.azad]

The blockade of aid to Gaza is not something I agree with.
Gaza is it's own country, Hamas should be free to oppress it's citizens as much as it wants to. As long as they don't try to kidnap Israeli soldiers and kill Israeli citizens (in which case they will get their asses handed to them), they can go ahead with what they want.

And Israel's humanitanian work?
DONT EVEN pull some uninformed, ignorant crap about Israel never helping out other countries with humanitarian aid. No matter what your issue with Israel is you still can't deny facts. (Well you can, but you in turn lose your credibility)

Israel wasone of the first countries on the scene in Haiti. They set up a HOSPITAL which was the ONLY HOSPITAL set up by aid workers, as well as the only legitimately WORKING Hospital in the whole country.

They sent: 40 doctors, 25 nurses, paramedics, a pharmacy, a children’s ward, a radiology department, an intensive care unit, an emergency room, two operating rooms, a surgical department, an internal department and a maternity ward. The hospital can treat approximately 500 patients each day, and in addition will perform preliminary surgeries.
* A search-and-rescue team, which has rescued about five people from under the rubble.
* 220 personnel in total
* Dozens of truckloads of medical and logistical equipment

Israel, after setting up a humanitarian aid program in the 1970s has sent similar aid to Vietnam, Bosnia, Kosovo, Argentina, Armenia, Russia, Rwanda, Kenya, Albania, Macedonia, Mexico, Afghanistan, Poland, Congo.
Israel has even taken in refugees from Bosnia, Kosovo and Vietnam.

Here is a succint and incomplete track record from the past 20 or so years..

Israeli aid to Haiti, field hospital set up - January 2010
Israeli aid team in Philippines - October 2009
Israel extends humanitarian and medical aid to the Democratic Republic of the Congo - November 2008
Israel flies in relief volunteers to Myanmar - May 2008
Israeli aid arrives in Sri Lanka and Indonesia - January 2005
Israeli aid to earthquake victims in India - January 2001
Israeli aid to earthquake victims in El Salvador - January 2001
Emergency aid to Ethiopia - April 2000
Israeli aid for Turkish earthquake victims - August 1999
Aid to Kosovo refugees - April 1999
Israeli medical aid to flood victims in Central America - November 1998
IDF search & rescue mission after bombing of US Embassy in Kenya - August 1998
Operation 'Interns for Hope': Israeli medical aid for Rwandan refugees in Zaire - July 1994

 

[ya.azad]

I apologise for sidetracking. I will discuss this in another topic.

 

[sister herb]

This is just typical in occupied Palestine:

Israel bars entry to W Bank firemen
AlJazeera.net


December 14, 2010

Ceremony to honour firefighters cancelled after Israel denies entry permits to Palestinians who helped battle blaze.

Israel has barred a group of Palestinian firefighters from attending a ceremony where they were to be honoured for their help in battling a deadly forest fire last week.

At least 10 Palestinians were invited to attend the event in northern Israel, where the four-day fire left 41 people dead and ravaged large swaths of forest.

But Ahmad Tibi, an Arab member of the Israeli parliament and one of the organisers of the ceremony, said the event was cancelled when three of the Palestinians were refused entry permits to Israel on Tuesday.

He said the military had turned the firefighters away on security grounds.

"It's a theatre of the absurd," he told The Associated Press news agency. "This is a regular day-to-day practice of the occupation, and it exposes its ugly face."

'Technical mistake'

The Israeli military said the Palestinians were denied entry due to a "technical mistake". It said permits have now been issued, and it later issued a statement expressing "regret" for the incident.

But Ahmed Rizek, the Palestinian fire chief whose permit arrived too late for him to attend, said entry refusals for no apparent reason were routine for many Palestinians.

He said he and his staff were surprised to learn when they arrived at the checkpoint that not all of the men would be granted entry into Israel.

Palestinians are required to have permits to enter Israel from the West Bank, and many complain that Israeli approval or rejection can be arbitrary.

Houses destroyed

About 20 Palestinian firefighters joined the international effort to battle the fire that swept through the Carmel forest in northern Israel.

Dozens of nations had sent firefighting equipment and helped in the effort to put out the fire, which in addition to causing casualties, scorched 50 square kilometres of woodland, destroyed millions of trees, and an estimated dozens of homes.

Israel has admitted it was woefully underprepared, and politicians have called for officials to resign for failing to quickly quell the fire.

Two teenagers from the village of Isfiya have been arrested on suspicion of starting the blaze "through negligence" by leaving behind burning embers after a family picnic.

http://www.uruknet.com/?p=m72877&hd=&size=1&l=e

 

[Ramadhan]

Israel is anything but weak. Israel NEVER asks for help like this and is generally the first country to respond to natural disasters (Haiti, Indonesia, Pakistani earthquakes etc).

any proof or evidence for that?
AFAIK, and I am an Indonesian, and who was in Aceh right before and after the Tsunamis working for international organization, and I didn't hear about Israeli aid.
And Israel is generally the first country to give aid to natural disasters in Indonesia??
What a load of BS