Gay Couples are to be Allowed to Marry in Churches.

[Pygoscelis]

People marching in the streets, wearing rainbow clothing, some semi-naked with loud music and expressing their sexuality in open public? I think the definition of progress has changed lol...of course, you are entitled to your opinion.

Gay Pride is a direct reaction to Gay Shame. People have been shamed for their sexual orientation for decades, no, for centuries. People still constantly drone on about how their sexual nature is deviant and sinful. So the backlash to that is to scream out about it in pride. When Gay Shame subsides (and it will in time, its becoming more acceptable to be homosexual now) Gay Pride will lose its purpose.

One of my relatives is homosexual. He never engaged in any sexual relations. He has got his masters and works for a company. He lives with his parents. He has four brothers, three are married and one living in Pakistan. Sometimes, unintentionally, he behaved in a feminine manner but it does not bother me. He lives a normal life...

I feel for him. And I would not call that a normal life, having to repress who you are. And how do you know he has not engaged in any sexual relations. Do you really think he would admit to you or his family (or anyone else muslim for that matter) that he did? It would seem he'd be justifiably concerned about the reaction he'd get.

 

[Pygoscelis]

This doesn't relate to anything we're speaking about and I truly have my doubts that you can get your head out of there long enough to stratify thins into their proper categories!

It relates to your complaint about the comparison of bigotry against black people and that against homosexuals. In both cases you tell people that something about them is shameful and that they must act in a particular manner, unequal to the rest of society, or you shame then by saying they are acting un-natural or in "sin".

Black people had a choice to sit at the front of the bus where only white people were supposed to be, or to drink from the white-only water fountain too.

In the Jim Crow south, black people were considered lesser beings and it was simply considered wrong, shameful, un-natural for them to be consorting with white people. Inter racial marriage was a big deal back then. It was declared to be "un-natural" and "shameful" for a white woman to marry a black man (or vice versa). This exact same attitude is now directed at homosexuals and dressed up in even more religious language.

 

[Ramadhan]

I feel for him. And I would not call that a normal life, having to repress who you are. And how do you know he has not engaged in any sexual relations. Do you really think he would admit to you or his family (or anyone else muslim for that matter) that he did? It would seem he'd be justifiably concerned about the reaction he'd get.

Don't feel bad at all for him, in any case, he should be the one who feels bad for you.

If guestfellow's brother is able to control his sinful sexual urges and keep living in the straight path that Allah has made for us, he will be rewarded far beyond anything in this world because it will be his personal jihad.
How long is the life in this world? 70 years? 90 years tops?
That's less than a blink of an eye compared to the life that he will experience in the hereafter.

 

[Ramadhan]

I think disappointing God is worse of all.. but I don't think anyone will persecute you for having these kinds of feelings.. here is a story of one Muslim who was gay

This is also a post that I made a while ago on the same issue:

Through my work (I work for an organization that funds many social causes), I got acquainted with a muslim support network in Indonesia whose thousands of members are those with SSA - same sex attraction (they refuse to call themselves gay). They are all muslims, males and females, and they are aware that they have this SSA, but they are fighting it, and they even call themselves muhajeerin (people who do the hijrah - for the sake of Allah). Some of them never had SSE (same sex experience), while some others have. But they all have the same goal: to please Allah SWT and to fight their unnatural urges/nafs and to complete their deen. Many have successfully got married with children and live a (married, straight) happy life. They realize that their SSA is just a test from Allah SWT and if they are successful to overcame it, they will be rewarded immensely Insya Allah. I heard there are also similar organizations exist internationally in many other countries.

 

[Ramadhan]

In the Jim Crow south, black people were considered lesser beings and it was simply considered wrong, shameful, un-natural for them to be consorting with white people. Inter racial marriage was a big deal back then. It was declared to be "un-natural" and "shameful" for a white woman to marry a black man (or vice versa). This exact same attitude is now directed at homosexuals and dressed up in even more religious language.

In Islam, there is no such thing as racism, and racism never existed among people who follow Islam correctly. Everyone is the same, the only thing that sets people apart is their takwa.
But homosexuality has always been forbidden in Islam.

 

[glo]

If we condemn anyone, they will condemn us. That about goes along with one of Newton's laws of physics... the whole equal and opposite reaction thing.

I do hate gay parades that are so immodest and sexual. It really doesn't put off a good impression to those from whom they ask for equal rights. And it doesn't do the rest of the gay community that's not like that a favour either.

I have a feeling that not many here will respect this post. I tried wording it very carefully, but I still think I'll be disliked for it. As well, it's just my input. I'm just some person in Nowhere, Kansas.

I think that's very true.

People who attend gay parades, trying to be provocative in the way they dress and act are not representative of the homosexual population as a whole! Most homosexuals are probably sitting at home quietly cringing.
(In that sense the gay paraders are the 'evangelicals of the gay community', the ones who feel they need to speak out, no matter what.)

However, I wonder if as a society we have created those over-the-top paraders, and if they rub their sexuality into society's face (pun not intended) because they are sick and tired with being discriminated against/marginalised/ignored ...?
When people are pushed out of society, they either remain underground or eventually rise up and find a new self-confidence to take on the majority. I think that's what's happening now.

 

[Ramadhan]

However, I wonder if as a society we have created those over-the-top paraders

nah. those homosexual paraders are nothing compared to their lifestyles of no-limits debauchery.

Yes, they are product of failed christiniaty as a religion in western culture.

 

[GuestFellow]

Gay Pride is a direct reaction to Gay Shame. People have been shamed for their sexual orientation for decades, no, for centuries. People still constantly drone on about how their sexual nature is deviant and sinful. So the backlash to that is to scream out about it in pride. When Gay Shame subsides (and it will in time, its becoming more acceptable to be homosexual now) Gay Pride will lose its purpose.

So this is about being proud of your sexuality? How can you be proud of your sexuality when you claim you have no control over it?

I feel for him. And I would not call that a normal life, having to repress who you are. And how do you know he has not engaged in any sexual relations. Do you really think he would admit to you or his family (or anyone else muslim for that matter) that he did? It would seem he'd be justifiably concerned about the reaction he'd get.

There are women that decide not to get married and are living a normal life. I'm not going to suspect him at all, there is no evidence. He does not need your sympathy...he's happy. Why is this hard to accept?

 

[Ramadhan]

...he's happy. Why is this hard to accept?

It seems that especially from atheistic western culture, they cannot believe that a person can be happy unless they follow and fulfill their every desires and selfish whims.

 

[جوري]

It relates to your complaint about the comparison of bigotry against black people and that against homosexuals. In both cases you tell people that something about them is shameful and that they must act in a particular manner, unequal to the rest of society, or you shame then by saying they are acting un-natural or in "sin".

Again NO relation. one can't help their skin color but one can help who they jump in bed with.. Either way I didn't say that the later is shameful (in feelings) but in action is an estrangement from God and transgression against commandments. For the umpteenth time try to read before hurling out what you want to believe. No one is interested in your inferences and own renditions to what is being said!

In the Jim Crow south, black people were considered lesser beings and it was simply considered wrong, shameful, un-natural for them to be consorting with white people. Inter racial marriage was a big deal back then. It was declared to be "un-natural" and "shameful" for a white woman to marry a black man (or vice versa). This exact same attitude is now directed at homosexuals and dressed up in even more religious language.

Yeah white people have been known to be bigoted, under-educated a holes.. what is your point? See previous replies as relates to sex!

all the best

 

[GuestFellow]

People who attend gay parades, trying to be provocative in the way they dress and act are not representative of the homosexual population as a whole! Most homosexuals are probably sitting at home quietly cringing.
(In that sense the gay paraders are the 'evangelicals of the gay community', the ones who feel they need to speak out, no matter what.)

lol I suppose they are the evangelicals of the gay community. I like the comparison. :

It relates to your complaint about the comparison of bigotry against black people and that against homosexuals. In both cases you tell people that something about them is shameful and that they must act in a particular manner, unequal to the rest of society, or you shame then by saying they are acting un-natural or in "sin".

There is a difference between black people and homosexuals. Everyone is born with the colour of their skin, no one chooses their own skin colour.

Homosexuals can choose to engage in sexual relation. These people did not choose to be attracted to the same gender but can choose whether to engage in sexual relationship.

So there is really no connection between sexuality and skin colour. Sexuality is more complex and develops as a child grows older.

It seems that especially from atheistic western culture, they cannot believe that a person can be happy unless they follow and fulfill their every desires and selfish whims.

I do get that impression. Like how the West must civilise everyone else.

atheists really are agents of the devil and a close second are those man worshipers .. instead of trying to help, they urge people on to a sinful life.. and wonder why we question their morality!

I agree that some people do not understand what it means to help.

 

[Pygoscelis]

There is a difference

But the analogy is apt.

no one chooses their own skin colour.

and

did not choose to be attracted to the same gender

It is true that homosexuals

can choose whether to engage in sexual relationship.

and it was also true that black people in the racist Jim Crow south could choose to "act white", sit at the front of the bus, drink from the white-only water fountain. They also were able to choose wether or not to date or marry white people, which in the racist south was just as, if not more, taboo than homosexual relations are today.

 

[Argamemnon]

God dislikes homosexuality. CASE CLOSED.

Next thread please.

 

[Abdul-Raouf]

God dislikes homosexuality. CASE CLOSED.

Next thread please.

Yep.. required clarity has been provided..Close this thread please.... its Enough.

Duno why... i really dont like this thread running this long.

 

[titus]

There is a difference between black people and homosexuals. Everyone is born with the colour of their skin, no one chooses their own skin colour.

Then let's change the analogy. Let's make it religion instead of skin color.

People can choose their religion, and they can be discriminated based on their religion.

God dislikes homosexuality. CASE CLOSED.

But this thread is not about whether or not God hates homosexuality.

 

[GuestFellow]

People can choose their religion, and they can be discriminated based on their religion.

If it comes down to that, fine. I'll accept.

 

[Wyatt]

"Atheist" is a term for someone who does not believe in God and implies nothing else about their lifestyle. It's odd to group a people with a label that only covers one aspect of their beliefs.

I don't have a god, but I don't label myself as an Atheist on here because when I was, I would often get harsh reactions to minuscule posts and I don't want people to assume I'm some "agent of the devil." People without a religion to tell them what's right or wrong base their actions on common sense or personal judgment. That varies from person to person. I've never had any problems myself, but some other Atheist may murder or rape someone. There's no connection, it all comes down to individual personality. (You have Muslims who are perfectly fine, yet some that murder or rape others. You see Atheists who see that and group all Muslims as that, while Muslims see Atheists do that and group them as that.)

Generalisations are the worst form of judging people.

However, I'm sure some don't feel comfortable in accepting the fact that everyone's different and may not agree on everything. Religion keeps us more similar to each other, so the thought of someone with completely original views or feelings towards things may feel threatening.

I think only the understanding and non-hateful ones here would understand what I'm trying to say.

And this is why, even though I really like Islam, I'm not religious. It's because I don't feel comfortable in a setting where I don't have complete control over my judgment towards things. Because I don't agree with certain views, I'm not going to force myself to abide by them. This isn't a topic for this thread though and I'm sure it'll make some people here ragereply.

I hope this thread is closed because it's been getting nowhere, but gone into gay-bashing and Atheist-bashing.

 

[Pygoscelis]

Then let's change the analogy. Let's make it religion instead of skin color.

People can choose their religion, and they can be discriminated based on their religion.

Indeed. Brings things like bans on head veils to mind. Such bans are often put in place out of bigotry against muslims. Muslims do choose to be muslim. And they choose if they will wear the head veils, and which kind they will wear if they do (hajib or niqab).

Telling them we object to it because we say it is wrong and see it as being repressive of women doesn't help any more than telling homosexuals that homosexual acts are wrong and seen by the religious as sinful acts agaisnt God.

If you wish to stop muslims from wearing head veils, you'd better have legitimate reasons (such as security concerns like requiring photo ID to show the face or not obscuring one's idenity in sensitive areas like banks). And if you wish to stop homosexuals from getting maried or adopting children, same deal. You'll have to come up with much more than "because my God says its wrong!" and show that homosexuals getting married (as opposed to them staying unmarried) puts the rest of us in danger.

 

[جوري]

Then let's change the analogy. Let's make it religion instead of skin color.

People can choose their religion, and they can be discriminated based on their religion.

Another faulty analogy for if we are to go by the norm then it will be atheism that is banned as it is clearly the anomaly and not religion which is the norm..but that is just to humor you. There is no correlation between religion and giving your seat up to a dude..

But this thread is not about whether or not God hates homosexuality.

Actually it is.. since it is a matter of whether or not it is acceptable to marry in a house of God!

all the best

 

[جوري]

However, I'm sure some don't feel comfortable in accepting the fact that everyone's different and may not agree on everything. Religion keeps us more similar to each other, so the thought of someone with completely original views or feelings towards things may feel threatening.

I thought you didn't like sweeping generalizations? Religion doesn't keep us similar to each other, I'd argue against that vehemently.. but it does bring us together as one heart..

I don't know why you'd want the thread to be closed otherwise.. I really can't see anything wrong with having different views and evincing them, I don't find anything threatening about that.

Good luck to you, I sincerely mean that.. I hope you find what you're looking for...