Is there a war against Islam ? I ask this question because many non Muslims seem to t

Argamemnon said:
That blonde woman, lol.. Insha'Allah soon she will receive those "marines' in coffins. Make Muslims prevail over the Kuffar ya Rabbi...

I think I'm going to watch some Jihad videos insha'Allah, I'm in the mood after seeing this video..
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It's hard to contain your anger for that kind of hate speech. I don't wish death on anyone. As the Imam said yesterday "We need to forgive." It's hard though when they want to see us die.
 
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JeffX said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NutFkykjmbM

This is what we're talking about. Pure hatred.
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Having watched this video, I want to cry! That hatred was just oozing out from the computer screen, and I can feel my stomach tightening. imsad

How humbling to watch those families calmly and peacefully walking to their charity event in the face of that barrage of verbal insult, without retaliating or even responding in any way.
That's what I call a peaceful witness!

No question on which side of the cordon I'd rather stand.
 
JeffX said:
It's hard to contain your anger for that kind of hate speech. I don't wish death on anyone. As the Imam said yesterday "We need to forgive." It's hard though when they want to see us die.
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"O you who have believed, fight those adjacent to you of the disbelievers and let them find in you harshness. And know that Allah is with the righteous." [9:123]

Obviously, we know this verse doesn't command us to be hostile against peaceful non-Muslims who are "adjacent to us". However, it warns us to be prepared and strong against those who are planning to attack or are hostile. And if necessary we have to fight them. This is the correct tafseer of this particular verse.

Hence, we must never show any weakness to the enemies of Islam who are preparing to attack us, or those who are aiding the attackers. Hopefully I have made myself clear now, insha'Allah? :)

Salam/ Peace
 
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^
How would you have reacted towards those protesters, if you had gone to the charity event, Argamemnon?

Personally, I think the peaceful reaction of the Muslims I saw speaks louder than any angry response I can imagine!
Would you say that peacefully ignoring the hateful verbal insults is a sign of weakness?
 
JeffX said:
We can thank the Western media for it's portrayal of Islam for the hatred. People don't understand and when they hear the "talking points" that's all they hear. They don't bother to do outside research either, and just believe what they've been told. I discussed this last night with a Brother and we've both come to the conclusion that if more Americans would go out and do some research they would know not to be afraid.
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^ This.

I have learned here, and with visiting mosques (yes I've done that), and speaking with muslims in my area, that I have nothing to fear from the vast majority of them. There are of course the crazy nutters within Islam and those who do with to impose it on me, but we have that type of person withinin most ideologies. I know that most muslims are not like that, I certainly wouldn't have had I not made the effort to speak with muslims, or had I pre-judged them in a tribal nature and dismissed anything they say as designed to undercut my society. I have met people who have this mentaility. I'm not making it up. Stop by paltalk social issues sometime if you have a very very thick skin and want to see some such idiots.

So no, I don't fear your typical muslim community that keeps to itself and has its moque and doesn't seek to push its rules on the rest of us non-muslims. You don't want to eat pork, I have no issue with that so long as you don't demand bacon be taken off the supermarket shelves, etc. I have even started to enjoy halal shwarma places. The meat is good!

I think t he magic of living a multi cultural society as I do, is that radical followers of ANY religion or ideology tend to get diluted and their offspring be more moderate and able to mesh with society at large. I think multiculturalism kills bigotry, because bigotry thrives on ignorance and when you live and work with the outgroup it is hard to maintain that ignorance. When you have muslim/black/atheist/whatever friends it is impossible to view all muslims/blacks/atheist/whatever as violent or evil.
 
glo said:
How humbling to watch those families calmly and peacefully walking to their charity event in the face of that barrage of verbal insult, without retaliating or even responding in any way.
That's what I call a peaceful witness!
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And that is what will turn this around.

"O you who have believed, fight those adjacent to you of the disbelievers and let them find in you harshness. And know that Allah is with the righteous." [9:123]
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Verses like that seem to be where the ridiculus "blasphemy" laws (such as in Pakistan) stem from.

It is sad how this verse gets so twisted and turned. If I am correct, it was placed in the context of war. Meaning when people are out to kill you. Not just criticize you. Is that wrong?
 
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glo said:
^
How would you have reacted towards those protesters, if you had gone to the charity event, Argamemnon?

Personally, I think the peaceful reaction of the Muslims I saw speaks louder than any angry response I can imagine!
Would you say that peacefully ignoring the hateful verbal insults is a sign of weakness?
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Hi glo, I hope you are doing well :)

First, I should mention that I haven't watched the whole video. Frankly, as soon as that woman started boasting about her sons as marines I had to stop watching, it was too frustrating for me to continue.

In answer to your question; I wouldn't have done anything if I were at that event. While I'm an emotional person I'm neither stupid nor violent. What could I have possibly said or done to change those people's minds anyway? I hope you don't think that I would hurt or attack them, obviously that wouldn't even cross my mind since that would be totally wrong according to Islamic and human principles.

I would only hurt people if I were a soldier and if I had to protect my people. And if there was absolutely no other way to stop the aggression and violence of the enemy. However, if my country was ruled by a violent leader or dictator I would not follow his orders and kill innocent people. I would prefer death over killing innocent people, regardless if they are Muslim or non-Muslim. Killing one innocent human being equals killing all mankind. Also, there is a hadith which says that if a Muslim kills an innocent non-Muslim living in Muslim lands, he will never smell Paradise (something along those lines). Does this not show us how bad it is to hurt or kill any of God's Creation??? Everything - including nature and animals- and everyone (all humans) belong to Allah, The Most Merciful.

In my view, people like Khadaffi and Mubarak are no different than George Bush or Tony Blair; oppressors are oppressors regardless of their religion. I think you will agree with me that if we asked Khadaffi why he is doing what he is doing, he would simply reply that he "only wants peace", which reminds me of this beautiful verse in the glorious Qur'an:

"And when it is said unto them: Make not mischief in the earth, they say: We are peacemakers only"

Peace, Salam :)
 
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Pygoscelis said:
And that is what will turn this around.



Verses like that seem to be where the ridiculus "blasphemy" laws (such as in Pakistan) stem from.

It is sad how this verse gets so twisted and turned. If I am correct, it was placed in the context of war. Meaning when people are out to kill you. Not just criticize you. Is that wrong?
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Please don't assume that people who call themselves "Muslim" are in reality what they claim to be. Is Mubarak a Muslim, or Ghadaffi? What about Saddam Hoessein was he "Muslim"? Muslims are human and they can do many bad things, BUT their actions or words should not turn you gainst the religion of Islam. Islam is the truth, while Muslims are only human...
 
Argamemnon said:
If Muslims are "waging wars all over the world" then why are Muslim lands under occupation and our natural resources plundered by kafir westerners? Why are dictators being installed to serve western interests? Apparently we are not fighting hard enough?

Why are western states conducting overt and covert operations to topple our governments or to assassinate our leaders and scientists? Why are western states always meddling in our internal affairs???

Did it ever occur to you that the opposite might be the case; that the West is waging wars against Islam and/or to plunder other nations' natural resources, both of which are crimes against humanity??


"And when it is said unto them: Make not mischief in the earth, they say: We are peacemakers only!" [Verse 2:11]
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Although a lot of this is true, I think the issue goes beyond that. Western society has evolved into a secular self-satisfying society and the message of Islam is obviously at odds with that. I guess what I'm saying although many Muslim countries are coming "under attack" so to speak that's not even the most worrying thing. It's a war of the minds(ideas) more than anything else.
 
Pygoscelis said:
^ This.

I have learned here, and with visiting mosques (yes I've done that), and speaking with muslims in my area, that I have nothing to fear from the vast majority of them. There are of course the crazy nutters within Islam and those who do with to impose it on me, but we have that type of person withinin most ideologies. I know that most muslims are not like that, I certainly wouldn't have had I not made the effort to speak with muslims, or had I pre-judged them in a tribal nature and dismissed anything they say as designed to undercut my society. I have met people who have this mentaility. I'm not making it up. Stop by paltalk social issues sometime if you have a very very thick skin and want to see some such idiots.

So no, I don't fear your typical muslim community that keeps to itself and has its moque and doesn't seek to push its rules on the rest of us non-muslims. You don't want to eat pork, I have no issue with that so long as you don't demand bacon be taken off the supermarket shelves, etc. I have even started to enjoy halal shwarma places. The meat is good!

I think t he magic of living a multi cultural society as I do, is that radical followers of ANY religion or ideology tend to get diluted and their offspring be more moderate and able to mesh with society at large. I think multiculturalism kills bigotry, because bigotry thrives on ignorance and when you live and work with the outgroup it is hard to maintain that ignorance. When you have muslim/black/atheist/whatever friends it is impossible to view all muslims/blacks/atheist/whatever as violent or evil.
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Most of my friends have always been non-Muslim since I live in a small town.. I still have two non-Muslim friends, they are good people.
 
Argamemnon said:
Hi glo, I hope you are doing well :)
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I am fine, thanks. I hope you are good too.

First, I should mention that I haven't watched the whole video. Frankly, as soon as that woman started boasting about her sons as marines I had to stop watching, it was too frustrating for me to continue.
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I can understand that. Her tirade was particularly hard to stomach!

In answer to your question; I wouldn't have done anything if I were at that event. While I'm an emotional person I'm neither stupid nor violent. What could I have possibly said or done to change those people's minds anyway? I hope you don't think that I would hurt or attack them, obviously that wouldn't even cross my mind since that would be totally wrong according to Islamic and human principles.
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I never imagined that you would. That's why your comment "However, it warns us to be prepared and strong against those who are planning to attack or are hostile. And if necessary we have to fight them." caught my eye. I thought it sounded out of character for you, as I read it to mean Muslims should fight against those protesters. I might have misunderstood your meaning.

In my view, people like Khadaffi and Mubarak are no different than George Bush or Tony Blair; oppressors are oppressors regardless of their religion. I think you will agree with me that if we asked Khadaffi why he is doing what he is doing, he would simply reply that he "only wants peace", which reminds me of this beautiful verse in the glorious Qur'an:
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Isn't it the sad truth that there will always be those who strive for power for their own gain.
My husband says "Scum rises to the top"! :D

"And when it is said unto them: Make not mischief in the earth, they say: We are peacemakers only"
Peace, Salam :)
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Jesus/Isa said 'Blessed are the peacemakers'. :)
 
glo said:

I never imagined that you would. That's why your comment "However, it warns us to be prepared and strong against those who are planning to attack or are hostile. And if necessary we have to fight them." caught my eye. I thought it sounded out of character for you, as I read it to mean Muslims should fight against those protesters. I might have misunderstood your meaning.. :)[/SIZE][/COLOR]
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but how could you think that glo? lol :)

fighting can only be done by states/armies and only to defend and stop oppression and human suffering. I think I would only fight if those protestors attacked me or tried to kill me.. the objective is never to hurt or kill people, but to end aggression or oppression and save human lives. Fighting is a last resort.

Your husband is right by the way, that's so true. Scum are often respected while victims are blamed and shamed and humiliated in many countries across the world...

Peace :)
 
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Salaam

I think there is an effort to tarnish Islam and Muslims. This will help gain mass support for the wars. In some European countries there is an effort to secularise Muslims and create confusion and division within the Muslim communities.
 
Mike3449 said:
1400 YEARS... that is not ancient.

But, zIslam has destroyed ancient. Is that any consolation?

The Persian Empire... The Egyptian Empire.

Imagine what those would look like today?

Egypt probably would have went to the Moon 1000 years ago.

But, the Arabs invaded.
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Peace,

Haters are going to hate I guess ;D Doubt anyone would be anywhere near the moon right now if it wasn't for Islam, do some real history check. Oh wait, hating can blind you.
 
Argamemnon said:
Please don't assume that people who call themselves "Muslim" are in reality what they claim to be. Is Mubarak a Muslim, or Ghadaffi? What about Saddam Hoessein was he "Muslim"? Muslims are human and they can do many bad things, BUT their actions or words should not turn you gainst the religion of Islam. Islam is the truth, while Muslims are only human...
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Very well put. And the same goes for Christians, Jews, Atheists, black people, white people, and all other "groups"
 
Perseveranze said:
Peace,

Haters are going to hate I guess ;D Doubt anyone would be anywhere near the moon right now if it wasn't for Islam, do some real history check. Oh wait, hating can blind you.
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And isn't it ironic how these people who push hate speech against muslims, quote their numbers in arabic numerals and use algebra? :

I don't think they realize they are using something created by those they hate, to support their hate for them.

It is no secret here that I have my issues with Islam as an ideology. But I will stand by muslim people, as they are people just like everybody else and deserve respect and should not be demonized as many in the west are doing.
 
Pygoscelis said:
Very well put. And the same goes for Christians, Jews, Atheists, black people, white people, and all other "groups"
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Jews are sometimes criticized very harshly in the Qur'an, which is sadly often misunderstood by some Muslims as well as non-Muslims. These verses are referring to those Jews who did many bad things. By no means does this mean that every single Jew is "evil". Labling an entire group of people or race as evil is obviously absurd and inhumane and against the teachings of Islam.
 

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