Non muslims referring to God as Allah

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Fivesolas said:
I am responding in general here, but your response sheds some light on mine...so that is why I am quoting you. If I take the idea that the term Allah is simply the generic Arabic word for God, then your statement could read, "..I realised more adn more people are foreign to the idea that God is God."

I think the most judicious assessment of the situation is to recognize that words have denotative and connotative meanings. We must also recognize that the meaning of words change over time and come to have a variety of meanings. How many remember that the word law denotes that which is laid, or that the terms "right" and "wrong," which are now completely moral in their nature, originally signified crooked and straight.

Denotatively (definitional), the term Allah is the generic word for God, with no specific reference to any particular God. Connotatively (implied), it seems clear that the word Allah has come to reference the God of Islam specifically. Let me illustrated this by a question. Would the Shahadah be acceptable if an English confessor said, "There is no God but God..." I would think not.

It appears to me that the term Allah has taken the meaning of a proper noun, rather than just a noun. Allah has become the proper name of God.

For this reason as an English speaking Christian I do not use the word Allah to reference the true God. Used anywhere in my country, it would always invoke the idea of the Islamic God, not the God of the Bible. If this situation isn't the case in other nations/cultures, then I could understand their use of the word Allah. But in English, the generic word for God is God, and should be translated as such as to avoid confusion.
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Just to answer one part. Yes the Shahadah can be acceptable if a person says it in their native language with full sincerity. Remember the Shahadah can be said alone with only Allaah(swt) as the witness. Allaah(swt) does know the intent in the person's heart, the exact wording of what the shahadah means need not be in any particular language, when the person is speaking to Allaah(swt) alone as Allaah(swt) knows all. I would imagine that some people have uttered a sincere recitation on their death bed in only the words they know. While we are encouraged to repeat the Shahadah in Arabic before witnesses, we are still Muslim from the second we said the Shahadah in sincerity, no matter what language we said it in.
 
Woodrow said:
Just to answer one part. Yes the Shahadah can be acceptable if a person says it in their native language with full sincerity. Remember the Shahadah can be said alone with only Allaah(swt) as the witness. Allaah(swt) does know the intent in the person's heart, the exact wording of what the shahadah means need not be in any particular language, when the person is speaking to Allaah(swt) alone as Allaah(swt) knows all. I would imagine that some people have uttered a sincere recitation on their death bed in only the words they know. While we are encouraged to repeat the Shahadah in Arabic before witnesses, we are still Muslim from the second we said the Shahadah in sincerity, no matter what language we said it in.
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ok.

Would you agree as to the word Allah though? For example, in your explaination to me you refer to God using the word Allah, rather than the English "God." Do you agree that the reason for this is that the term Allah has come to have a stricter connotation in how its been used than just a generic name for God?
 
Fivesolas said:
ok.

Would you agree as to the word Allah though? For example, in your explaination to me you refer to God using the word Allah, rather than the English "God." Do you agree that the reason for this is that the term Allah has come to have a stricter connotation in how its been used than just a generic name for God?
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Allaah(swt) is a specific name. It is of the same root as the Hebrew Elohim and the Aramaic Eli. Actually all three are written with the same letters Alif Lam Hah and the letters correspond in all 3 languages. It is a specific name in the 3 languages and does not correspond to the generic god. There is a word in Arabic that does refer to a generic god and that is Ilah. But none of the Hebrew, Aramaic or Arabic speaking Christians use the word Ilah, they all use the specific Name Allaah(swt)
 
Fivesolas said:
it would always invoke the idea of the Islamic God, not the God of the Bible. If this situation isn't the case in other nations/cultures, then I could understand their use of the word Allah. But in English, the generic word for God is God, and should be translated as such as to avoid confusion.
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Well my point was that people think the word Allah is just reserved for Muslims and that is why as Muslims we need to clear this misconception. Allah is One. Christians in arabic speaking countries also call God, Allah. It is fine with me if one wants to say God/Allah but I just would like to say that non Muslims can use the word Allah if they wish. I also do not think it causes a lot of confusion when people are aware of this.
 
My husband says Allah all the time, interchangeably with God, the Divine, the One, etc. He does this not only out of respect for me (even though I tell him he doesn't have to), and to get into the habit of saying it in the Middle East, but because he believes (as I do) that since there is only One God, what (acceptable) name you call Him by should make no difference - obviously you shouldn't call Him something like Ralph just for the heck of it ;) ; He knows what is in your heart, and your love for Him should be evident whichever name crosses your lips.

Regardless, I take no offense that he refers to Him as Allah. It is His Name, after all, why would I be offended?
 
Woodrow said:
Allaah(swt) is a specific name. It is of the same root as the Hebrew Elohim and the Aramaic Eli. Actually all three are written with the same letters Alif Lam Hah and the letters correspond in all 3 languages. It is a specific name in the 3 languages and does not correspond to the generic god. There is a word in Arabic that does refer to a generic god and that is Ilah. But none of the Hebrew, Aramaic or Arabic speaking Christians use the word Ilah, they all use the specific Name Allaah(swt)
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According to the Hebew Lexicon by Gesenius, Elohim is the generic word for God. It is used of the true God (Genesis 1:1; Deut. 32:15) and of false god(s) Exodus 32:1. If Elohim has the same root as the Arabic as you suggest (I am not a master of semitic languages), then it would indicate that it is indeed generic.

But the point is this: it's not the root of the word that gives it its meaning, but its use. As I mentioned before, the meaning of a word can dramatically change over time. The word Allah has come to be used as a proper noun. The word is no longer neutral, but refers to the God of Islam.
 
Ami said:
Well my point was that people think the word Allah is just reserved for Muslims and that is why as Muslims we need to clear this misconception. Allah is One. Christians in arabic speaking countries also call God, Allah. It is fine with me if one wants to say God/Allah but I just would like to say that non Muslims can use the word Allah if they wish. I also do not think it causes a lot of confusion when people are aware of this.
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Maybe in Arabic speaking nations it does not cause confusion. I am not sure. I have never lived there. I can really only speak from my own culture. In the USA it would cause serious confusion.
 
Little_Lion said:
My husband says Allah all the time, interchangeably with God, the Divine, the One, etc. He does this not only out of respect for me (even though I tell him he doesn't have to), and to get into the habit of saying it in the Middle East, but because he believes (as I do) that since there is only One God, what (acceptable) name you call Him by should make no difference - obviously you shouldn't call Him something like Ralph just for the heck of it ;) ; He knows what is in your heart, and your love for Him should be evident whichever name crosses your lips.

Regardless, I take no offense that he refers to Him as Allah. It is His Name, after all, why would I be offended?
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Thanks for this reply. It does illustrate the point I have been making, namely that the Arabic word Allah has come to taken the meaning and use of a proper noun, and not a generic term.
 
Fivesolas said:
Maybe in Arabic speaking nations it does not cause confusion. I am not sure. I have never lived there. I can really only speak from my own culture. In the USA it would cause serious confusion.
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I also do not live in an arabic speaking country also , I live in as they call the west..it wouldnt cause confusion at all if people were educated about it...people in the USA can be open minded to learn so I disagree with you there...
 
Ami said:
I also do not live in an arabic speaking country also , I live in as they call the west..it wouldnt cause confusion at all if people were educated about it...people in the USA can be open minded to learn so I disagree with you there...
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Ok Ami. Maybe you should try an experiment and use both. I would bet that those who heard you use the word Allah would make the assumption that you are Muslim. If I went to church and started using the word Allah for God, they would ask questions.

What I am basing my opinion on is the use of words or language. Hermeneutically its referred to as the usus loquendi. Again, the denotative meaning may be "God" but the connotation is the Islamic God. I would think anyone can recognize that.
 
Fivesolas said:
According to the Hebew Lexicon by Gesenius, Elohim is the generic word for God. It is used of the true God (Genesis 1:1; Deut. 32:15) and of false god(s) Exodus 32:1. If Elohim has the same root as the Arabic as you suggest (I am not a master of semitic languages), then it would indicate that it is indeed generic.

But the point is this: it's not the root of the word that gives it its meaning, but its use. As I mentioned before, the meaning of a word can dramatically change over time. The word Allah has come to be used as a proper noun. The word is no longer neutral, but refers to the God of Islam.
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this is ignorance, plain and simple. Allah is a combination of al and ilah; together they mean the One and ONLY One Who is worthy of ALL Worship. is is the Arabic equivalent of "The One True God. it was used by the Arabians BEFORE Islam. Allah in NOT "the god of Islam," Allah is Rabbil Alamin, the Creator, Cherisher, Sustainer, Nourisher, Protector and Healer of ALL that has been created.

it is your kuffar mind and way of thinking that attempts to limit the definition of Allah. it is because your mind is enveloped in shirk that your thinking is marred. you CANNOT imagine a single indivisible God who exists outside and above His creation, without partners.

you are the one who wishes Allah diminished, but that is why the hellfire awaits you unless stop trying to deny Allah AS DEFINED by the Messengers.

it is your choice most certainly...

i truly don't understand ANY Muslim who has a problem with ANYONE calling Allah by the name Allah.

chow
 
Fivesolas said:
Ok Ami. Maybe you should try an experiment and use both. I would bet that those who heard you use the word Allah would make the assumption that you are Muslim. If I went to church and started using the word Allah for God, they would ask questions.
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I do use both terms all the time. And you can see from my other posts that I recognised most people think Allah is just for Islam and I said as Muslims we need to let people know it isn't and that non Muslims can use it if they wish. I don't think it's really a big deal whatever term you use and I was just answering the question can non muslims refer to God as Allah and yes they can.
 
Fivesolas said:
The word Allah has come to be used as a proper noun.
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Yes, of course it is a proper noun for a specific Being as opposed to a generic term that can be applied to many beings.
The word is no longer neutral, but refers to the God of Islam.
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Words are of course not the thing or entity that is being referred to, but rather merely tools or instruments of communication to convey concepts and meanings to others. Your statement implying that 'Allah is the God of Islam' can be rephrased as both 'YHWH is the God of Judaism' and 'Trinity is the God of Christianity'. I used 'Trinity' to convey the Christian concept of God rather than 'Father' because I believe it more thoroughly conveys the Christian concept of the one they worship rather than the singular word 'Father' even though I believe that Allah, YHWH and Father all refer to the same Divine Being. Trinity conveys one meaning distinct from Father which also conveys a different meaning from Jesus and Holy Spirit. The words that we use (YHWH, Allah or Father) do not change the fact that God is One, however god means anything that is worshiped beside The God, or Allah, if you please.
 
I think the point has been made. And I agree with MustafaMC with regard to words conveying meaning. This is why as Christian it does not seem proper to me to use the word Allah for the true God.
 
Fivesolas said:
I think the point has been made. And I agree with MustafaMC with regard to words conveying meaning. This is why as Christian it does not seem proper to me to use the word Allah for the true God.
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Then who is God? No where in the Abrahamic faith has the Deity ever been called God. Some day you may wish to look up the origin of the name God.
 
Woodrow said:
Then who is God? No where in the Abrahamic faith has the Deity ever been called God. Some day you may wish to look up the origin of the name God.
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I have actually studied this from the Hebrew Scriptures. There is one study of tracing etymology, and another of meaning. Knowing the etymology of a word does not equal having the meaning. My comments related mainly to how words are used today.

YHWH/Yahweh/Jehovah is the most often used name of God in the OT. There is 6,519 references to this name. Others names/words used for the true God are El Shaddai, El Elyon, Adoni, Jehovah-Nissi/Raah/Rapha/Shammah/Tsidkenu/Mekoddishkem/Jireh/Shalom/Saboth, El Olam, Elohim, and Qanna.

An examination of the Scriptures of the prophets shows that God revealed His Name not just to identify Himself, but also to reveal His character as well.

Blue Letter Bible. The Names of God in the Old Testament. Blue Letter Bible. 1 Apr 2002. 29 Mar 2011.
<http://blueletterbible.org/study/misc/name_god.html>.
 
Fivesolas said:
I have actually studied this from the Hebrew Scriptures. There is one study of tracing etymology, and another of meaning. Knowing the etymology of a word does not equal having the meaning. My comments related mainly to how words are used today.

YHWH/Yahweh/Jehovah is the most often used name of God in the OT. There is 6,519 references to this name. Others names/words used for the true God are El Shaddai, El Elyon, Adoni, Jehovah-Nissi/Raah/Rapha/Shammah/Tsidkenu/Mekoddishkem/Jireh/Shalom/Saboth, El Olam, Elohim, and Qanna.

An examination of the Scriptures of the prophets shows that God revealed His Name not just to identify Himself, but also to reveal His character as well.

Blue Letter Bible. The Names of God in the Old Testament. Blue Letter Bible. 1 Apr 2002. 29 Mar 2011.
<http://blueletterbible.org/study/misc/name_god.html>.
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Then why and how did you come to call him God and exactly what does the word God mean? Is not the Name Allaah(swt) more in agreement with the Christian concept of God, then the name God is?
 
Fivesolas said:
I think the point has been made. And I agree with MustafaMC with regard to words conveying meaning. This is why as Christian it does not seem proper to me to use the word Allah for the true God.
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Really. I wonder what Indonesian christians would say about that.
Many Indonesian christians (I dont know what their denominations) also interchangeably use "Allah" to refer to God, often with addition such as "Allah Bapa" (God the father), although interestingly they don't refer jesus (pbuh) as Allah.
So, at least according to Indonesian christians, there is a hierarchy in Godship, with Allah (The father) acts as the supreme God, and jesus as the lesser god. Im not sure where they place the spirit.
 

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