Things in Islam I am curious about...

Brother YielodedOne, Salaam. I understand the question you ask brother.

Muslims, Christians and Jews all beleive in the ONE GOD... Some Christians have the trinity which I don't agree with. My reason is because the trinity is too hard to get to grips with, and as a religion, any religion - should be acceptable by the layman without confusing him/her... We are not all born intelligent, but we are all born being able to recognize true faith... the concept of trinity confuses many, and is beleived to be shirk by Muslims because it enjoins partners to Allah... If you are not a trinity beleiving Christian then it is OK to go to a church imo, so long as they don't preach trinity...

There will be Christians and Jews in Heaven too... not just Muslims.

How beautiful is that?
 
There are some that say that only God is naturally immortal and/or incorruptible...and that immortality has to be communicated directly to the created soul by God for it to have immortality. In other words, God is immortal/incorruptible NATURALLY, while creaturely souls have immortality BY GRACE.

Just a note.

I agree with that comment, It is by HIS (Allah) grace that we will be immortal... Ameen.
 
Scimitar:
There will be Christians and Jews in Heaven too... not just Muslims. How beautiful is that?

It's almost as beautiful as God Himself is. Almost. :D

Peace and blessings, my brother!
 
Why would God honor someone who constantly used a "tool of the devil" and ENCOURAGED others to do so as well??


1. First, some basic info here: if you don't know yet, your bible is corrupted.
Don't believe me?
example: try search "pericope adulterae" passage in codex sinaiticus, codex vaticanus, codex alexandrinus and hebrew bible translations, and you will find NONE, but you will suddenly find them in the latin vulgate bible and KJV. Bible scholars agree that it is fabrication and later addition, while most christians including priests, pastors what have you just shrugged it off and made meek excuse "oh, but the passage fits the character of God".
THAT is how lax your attitude towards God is.

The same goes with the OT. God knows how many additions, deleteions, corruptions, editing went into torah and zabur that become monstrosity known as the OT.
So yes, we don't believe that the OT is the unchanged words of God, including Psalm 150 that you cited. Can you please provide us the orginal psalms 150 as was supposedly given to David (pbuh)?

2. Surely you can differentiate between instrumental music and music per se. the beauty of Recitations of the Qur'an have touched many non-muslims that they likened it to beautiful music. and singing praise is not synonimous with instrumental music.

3.
Malaikah: Music is the tool of the devil.
which malaikah? if you are gonna make a statement, please provide source. Unlike christianity, in Islam we unfailingly guard authenticity of scripture and ahadeeth.
 
There are some that say that only God is naturally immortal and/or incorruptible...and that immortality has to be communicated directly to the created soul by God for it to have immortality. In other words, God is immortal/incorruptible NATURALLY, while creaturely souls have immortality BY GRACE. Just a note.


Only christians would say God is naturally immortal. The ancient romans and Greeks also believed in the immortality of God.

Muslims believe in God that is outside time, as time is His creation.
 
Naidamar:
1. First, some basic info here: if you don't know yet, your bible is corrupted.
Don't believe me?
example: try search "pericope adulterae" passage in codex sinaiticus, codex vaticanus, codex alexandrinus and hebrew bible translations, and you will find NONE, but you will suddenly find them in the latin vulgate bible and KJV. Bible scholars agree that it is fabrication and later addition, while most christians including priests, pastors what have you just shrugged it off and made meek excuse "oh, but the passage fits the character of God".
THAT is how lax your attitude towards God is.
The same goes with the OT. God knows how many additions, deleteions, corruptions, editing went into torah and zabur that become monstrosity known as the OT.
So yes, we don't believe that the OT is the unchanged words of God, including Psalm 150 that you cited. Can you please provide us the orginal psalms 150 as was supposedly given to David (pbuh)?

See? I can't stand this. On ONE HAND, some Muslims want to point to the Bible to prove that certain Christian claims are invalid...and they'll use it almost INFALLIBLY to do so. But...on the OTHER HAND, when it suits them, they will use say that the Hebrew and Christian Scriptures are themselves invalid because of tahrif. This is intellectual dishonesty at it's worst. It's repugnant to me. +o(

I bet that you are gonna give me the SAME ANSWER for those quotes of Jesus that I have on the other thread. Typical.

And be honest, Naidamar: have you even READ the Hebrew text of Psalm 150 to SEE and ANALYZE FOR YOURSELF what (if anything's) been corrupted?


***************************

Naidamar:
2. Surely you can differentiate between instrumental music and music per se. the beauty of Recitations of the Qur'an have touched many non-muslims that they likened it to beautiful music. and singing praise is not synonimous with instrumental music.

Do you really mean to tell me that you believe that the historical David NEVER, EVER used any intstruments at all?? Do you do ANY research at all??


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Naidamar:
which malaikah? if you are gonna make a statement, please provide source. Unlike christianity, in Islam we unfailingly guard authenticity of scripture and ahadeeth.


This one...

gohar98
Re: Things in Islam I am curious about...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malaikah
Music is the tool of the devil.


I agree with you.
 
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Naidamar:
Only christians would say God is naturally immortal. The ancient romans and Greeks also believed in the immortality of God.
Muslims believe in God that is outside time, as time is His creation.

::shakes head in disbelief::

God is uncreated. Whatever is uncreated is NOT SUBJECT to mortality because mortality is a CREATED attribute.

My goodness...^o)
 
See? I can't stand this. On ONE HAND, some Muslims want to point to the Bible to prove that certain Christian claims are invalid...and they'll use it almost INFALLIBLY to do so. But...on the OTHER HAND, when it suits them, they will use say that the Hebrew and Christian Scriptures are themselves invalid because of tahrif. This is intellectual dishonesty at it's worst. It's repugnant to me.

There are morsels of truth in gospels amongst many inventions and corruptions. Our criterion is the Qur'an.
We don't even have to try hard to show you the thousands of contradictions and errors contained in the bible? Have you read your bible? Do you want me help you to list all those contradictions and errors?

I bet that you are gonna give me the SAME ANSWER for those quotes of Jesus that I have on the other thread. Typical.

No, just check them out in the other thread.
:)

And be honest, Naidamar: have you even READ the Hebrew text of Psalm 150 to SEE and ANALYZE FOR YOURSELF what (if anything's) been corrupted?

Have you?
Have you even read the actual and original words of Jesus (pbuh) in first century aramaic and hebrew?

Re: Things in Islam I am curious about... Quote: Originally Posted by Malaikah Music is the tool of the devil. I agree with you.

so you quoted one single poster on an online forum and treating it as an Islamic injunction and word of God?
 
Naidamar:
We don't even have to try hard to show you the thousands of contradictions and errors contained in the bible? Have you read your bible? Do you want me help you to list all those contradictions and errors?

Naidamar. Yes, I have read the Bible. As I've said before, I have studied this stuff scholastically. So, I've had to study Koine Greek and Masoretic text Hebrew. I have not studied Aramaic or Ugaritic though.
 
I've never read Dawkins, so I can't say. Are we talking about self-delusions or are we talking about delusions that are a product of biology or consequence of injury?

It's an extreme criticism of religions from an evolutionist perspective. Don't read it it's extreme :) specially on the old testament and new testament . Also on islam.
 
The thing about Dawkins is that he is using pedantic argument against a people(s) who have faith. Faith is divinely inspired, and Dawkins is not... He is inspired by the great deceiver (we won't even mention him here).

His M.O is directed not towards those with faith - because his arguments seem very silly and materially inspired, so his target audience is actually people who have no faith, or are looking to find one, or just wanting to study comparatively. And some who just want to listen to his dribble so they can quote him to get a reaction out of people of the book.

The Dawkins book is a stomach churning ride that will frustrate you too much. The man is a zealiot, and a material one at that. No lie, Just read inbetween the lines. I don't see why people like Dawkins confound religion yet condone materialism. I mean, seriously? SERIOUSLY? We all got jobs, we all make money, we all got time to shop - so why does he keep going on about something that is a core part of our everyday activities anyway? Answer: because once you buy into his ideology - you will live only to please yourself, and forget all others.

I know a few Dawkins maniacs, they have turned into complete twats, pardon the term. One has completely lost the plot doing all manner of drugs just to "experiment with his higher conscious self" lol... I hope he doesnt meet some ethereal being that plays with his life... meh coz that would be very bad.
 
@scimitar you scimitared it right in the heart. Unfortunately he didn't mention anything about money refund if i don't become an atheist (as he promised at the begining of the book) by the time i finish from reading it.
 
Just a reminder for my non-Muslim brothers, this is a place for us to come and ask questions about Islam. It is not a place for us to come and try to prove anything. This thread is about learning, not debating. If you find an answer unsatisfactory in addressing your question, ask it again in a different way. If you don't understand, perhaps a different response from another poster would help you, so ask for that. But if you simply dislike or disagree with the answer, note that to yourself, but you don't need to share that information here. This thread is about learning, understanding and seeking clarification, not debating, proving anything or even challenging views that we think are in error.
 
After Armageddon / We will be judged and that is when our souls will be in our immortal bodies - but here there is a difference.

How do you feel about the way that Hamza expressed it above?

As I read your post it seems that you describe a process by which a mortal being is transformed into an immortal one. As I read Hamza I sense that we were perhaps talking about an immortal being who needed to drop off his mortal body in order to more fully move into the immortal state for which one is actually created. They both describe the same process and have the same ending, but the understanding of our natural state differs somewhat.
 
Grace Seeker,
Thank you sometimes I do get side tracked and think I have to defend my faith when it actually stands on its own. I need only tell them what and why I believe as I do. Whether they accept or reject it is a personal matter for them alone as it was for me.

So, from my limited understanding Islam isn't just a religion but also like Christianity a way of life. One difference is that Christianity is about a repairing a personal relationship with God in a familiar way ie father son relationship. The muslim relationship is more master slave oriented.

My question is if Islam using Sharia Law is supposed to be a perfected socio political way that governs people why is it that those countries that have embraced Islam and Sharia law have so much unrest and strife where suicide bombings seem to occur more often than in other countries? That would seem to imply that Sharia Law doesn't work as anything other than a tool of oppression? Why would I say oppression? Simle people usually don't rebel unless that has ocurred.

Peace be with you
 
Grace Seeker,
Thank you sometimes I do get side tracked and think I have to defend my faith when it actually stands on its own. I need only tell them what and why I believe as I do. Whether they accept or reject it is a personal matter for them alone as it was for me.

So, from my limited understanding Islam isn't just a religion but also like Christianity a way of life. One difference is that Christianity is about a repairing a personal relationship with God in a familiar way ie father son relationship. The muslim relationship is more master slave oriented.

My question is if Islam using Sharia Law is supposed to be a perfected socio political way that governs people why is it that those countries that have embraced Islam and Sharia law have so much unrest and strife where suicide bombings seem to occur more often than in other countries? That would seem to imply that Sharia Law doesn't work as anything other than a tool of oppression? Why would I say oppression? Simle people usually don't rebel unless that has ocurred.

Peace be with you

Greetings Gmcbroom,

From your response it is clear that you do only have a very flawed understanding of Islam and i would have hoped that by being here you would have wanted to clarify your views on Islam that is if you are indeed here for the right reasons.

Regarding your comparison of Islam with Christianity then there is no comparison because Islam encompasses every aspect of our life from social to economic, From political to the judicial system whereas Christianity in itself has not got these systems in place.

Also in Islam we trace everything back to its sources where ALL of our fundamentals have basis with the words of God and the Prophet whereas the fundamentals of your faith regarding the trinity, the theotokas, the "cruci-fiction", and the blood atonement have ABSOLUTELY NO basis and NO mention in ANY of the teachings and the words of ANY Prophet, Jesus or God.

That is VERY strange that such fundamental beliefs are NOT found anywhere in the words of God or Jesus considering the fact that these beliefs make the foudnation of your faith and without them your faith crumbles. Without any evidence supporting it you rely on Paul and theologians after him who set these created beliefs in stone in the nicean council.

ANYONE studying the foundations of these flawed and created concepts will know that they have absolutley NO basis or proof from the words of God or Jesus.

For these reasons alone most of the converts to Islam in this world are actually Christians. Who can blame them or any other Christian who is not only disillusioned by the fact that these concepts are illogical, cruel, disturbing and troubling but that they are NOT mentioned in ANY teaching of ANY Prophet, God or Jesus.

Regaerding your statement about the shariah then know that the last shariah was eradicated in 1926 and since then there has not been a properly established shariah system so you are in fact making a judgement about either a democracy or dictatorship. If you want to judge the shariah system then judge it when it was properly established when even Christian and Jews wanted to live under a shariah because of its superiour systems and the protection it provided for all unlike in a democracy.

In Islam we live ONLY by the laws of God and not the manmade law of the churches which are constantly contradicting and changing all of the time going against the very teachings of Jesus himself. No wonder why countkless people are leaving the church because they are just fed up of the hypocrisy and contradiction as well as cover ups of child abuse. Even the pope was involved in these child abuse cover ups.


Therefore i ask anyone reading to look up the bloody history of Christianity and the origin of these created concepts and without a doubt you will see that they have NO basis or existance in the teachings of God or Jesus but were actually that of Paul and theologians after Jesus who set it in stone in the nicean council.

Look up for yourselves how far the church has gone astray from the true teachings of Christ and how people are abandoning the church in droves because of its consistant hypocrisy and contradictions as well as child abuse cover ups which even the Pope himself was involved in as well as most other top church priests and officials.

Look up Islam for yourselves and why so many people are turning to it. Simply because it is a superiour way of life and everything is consitant with the original sources. Don't take my word for it research for yourselves and know why so many are turning to the truth.

If the whole of mankind and Jinn were to gather together to produce the like of this Qur'an, they could not produce the like thereof, even if they backed up each other with help and support. And We have explained to man, in this Qur'an, every kind of similitude: Yet the greater part of men refuse ( to receive it ) except with ingratitude. (Isra 88-89)
 
Hamzai,
Thank you for your response. Indeed my view of Islam maybe flawed. Yet, that is why I'm here to learn about it. Now, note I don't want to be moslem as i'm a christian and that faith is what I wish to remain and if i'm not mistaken i'm entitled to be a christian in Islam. As for christianity not having similar laws that Islam has I'd say you are both right and wrong.

Your right in that christianity doesn't have complex legal laws to govern society in all walks of life as Islam does. Those laid out in the koran can be quite complex almost legalistic which befits a society. Christianity tends to focus on the individual. Jesus said 2 things emcompass the whole of the Law. Simply put. To love your God and to love your neighbor as yourself. What Jesus said concerning life is indeed simple though. As the world is complex those that live for it need the complexity in order to survive and in some cases thrive.

Your wrong in that since christianity is based on the individual instead of the society, if said individual or society actually followed what Jesus said and lived as he instructed simply there would be no violence as the World would not hold sway as it does today. Mankind can be incredibly selfish. Jesus was not. If we followed Jesus we wouldn't be selfish either.

Now regrettfully as we all know there are those that say their christian yet don't actually act like christians. They think their honoring god when in fact their just honoring themselves in short idols. If Islam doesn't have the same type of people then thats great but I don't believe it because we're all human.

Peace be with you
 
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I used to have similar issues. I was born a Muslim (thank Allah) but never really understood it. I was born in England, and my early education consisted of normal schooling and from 5pm-7pm weekdays - in a Mosque learning to read Arabic and then the Quran - so I can make prayers properly.

A sister here who I hold in such high regards sent me your story by email to cheer me up and I must admit, it made my week..
Jazaka Allah khyran, I have passed it around to a few Muslims who have a similar lifestyle to your prior to the door opening.. May Allah swt make your steadfast..

:w:
 
There are some that say that only God is naturally immortal and/or incorruptible...and that immortality has to be communicated directly to the created soul by God for it to have immortality. In other words, God is immortal/incorruptible NATURALLY, while creaturely souls have immortality BY GRACE. Just a note.


You're psychedelic indeed.
All Humans are honored with immortality since God has breathed life in us. Not all creatures have 'souls' and not all creatures will be graced for I can think of no greater disgrace than living outside of God's commandments, associating partners unto him. Surely that grants the immortal soul an abysmal existence far from grace!

best,
 

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