Things in Islam I am curious about...

Muslim Woman said:
Salaam / Peace


God does not take form of human being. So , if anyone believes a human or any creation is God himself , s/he is commiting the blasphemy.
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Is this something that you have surmised, or is it explicity stated some place in the Qur'an?
 
May Ayob said:
You mean God incarnite?
i think a humanbeing would have to go to the washroom in the end , Is this Suitable for the creator of the Heavens and unvierse, i don't think so , this in my opinion is a false claim because he can't be God if he is a humanbeing very simple .
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By your own statement, this is your opinion and nothing more.

I understand that you have an emotional reaction against the idea, but you don't explain how the process of incarnation would diminish God's divine nature. Surely God is not so limited that there are things he cannot do simply because we would seem them as beneath God. A king is still a king whether dressed in royal robes or those of a pauper. His true and loyal subjects would honor him either way. Is there anything beyond personal opinion, any actual tenets of Islam that would say that this is something that God cannot do?
 
siam said:
The problem here is that in order to believe this---Christians must believe in "incarnation/avatar"---that God incarnates into created form. This essentially means making this "created form" into God. Which constitutes idol worship. ----that is, believing that the "created form" is God, or equal to God.

Since God is not "created"---to arbitarily (and falsely) elevate a "created from" to God or equal to God essentially creates "a partner" to God---that is God the "Uncreated" Supreme God and God the created/incarnation/avatar. ---It is the same problem that we would have with Hinduism. The Hindus could argue till the oceans run dry that they are monotheists (though they are not as stubborn as Christians)---it (incarantion/avatar) would never be acceptable as monotheism
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I've responded to your comments last, because I see in them the most logic argument among the above as an objection to the concept of the incarnation from an actual Islamic point of view, rather than a humanistic one. But still I have some more questions:

The gist of your argument seems, to me at least, to hinge on the idea that God cannot exist in some sort of created form and still be God. I ask, why not? If God is God, why should he be so limited that there is anything that he cannot do? This is not like asking an illogical nonsense question on the order of "If God can do anything, can God make a rock so big that he cannot move it." Rather it appears you have begun with an apriori assumption that there are indeed things that are beyond God. And I find it hard to so limit God. Why is it that you do not share this concern over limiting God? And yet, even as I ask, I know that you probably do not see yourself as limiting God. And that is why I return with the simply question: Why not? Why cannot God take on created form if he so desires to do so?

I disagree with you that taking on a created form is to make God himself a created being. He would still remain the uncreated being even as he appeared within creation. He simply is revealing himself to more of our senses, but it doesn't change who he is any more than a woman changing her hair color changes who she is even though she may appear different to us.

Consider that any form of revelation is to make God enter into creation in some way, for even our thoughts and ideas are a product of creation. Though they may not take on physical form, but they do not exist independent of the act of creation. So, even for us to think about Allah in the abstract is to do the very thing which you object to with regard to the process of incarnation. For our ideas about God are not actually God himself, they are our projections of the nature of God. And none of us are able to fully perceive or know God in his completeness. We at best each have our own limited understanding of how he is. So, each of us in a sense worship a different God of our own creation, rather than the one true God who exists completely apart from us. At least in the incarnation God is projecting himself to us, rather than we projecting an image of him in our mind.
 
Muslims and christians will become united at the end of times against jews. Where are those christians right now? And do christians believe in this story?
 
I admit that I still have my issues with Islam, just like I have my issues with Christianity. Recently though, I have come to the conclusion that I may just have to disagree with whatever I have an issue with and just go on about my business. I don't want to let a few minor things stop me from finding my inner peace.

Now my question is, if I do that, does that make me a heretic?
 
Getoffmyback said:
Muslims and christians will become united at the end of times against jews. Where are those christians right now? And do christians believe in this story?
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This is a thread for asking questions about Islam and not really designed to answer questions about Christianity. However, very briefly, as a Christian pastor, I can tell you that I am not familiar with any story within the Christian understanding of the end times that contains the details of Muslims and Christians being united against Jews as you have described above.
 
@grace seeker i'm using my phone and i can't look for the link where i read the article about the unity of muslims and christians at the end of time from an islamic source and an islamic point of view. There is a part of my questions addressed to muslims . if they will be united then i wanna ask them where are those christians now? Which christians ?
 
Getoffmyback said:
@grace seeker i'm using my phone and i can't look for the link where i read the article about the unity of muslims and christians at the end of time from an islamic source and an islamic point of view. There is a part of my questions addressed to muslims . if they will be united then i wanna ask them where are those christians now? Which christians ?
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OK. Well, I trust I've answer the second part of your question found in the previous post. I'll leave it to the Muslims to answer the other questions from an Islamic point of view.
 
Getoffmyback said:
@grace seeker i'm using my phone and i can't look for the link where i read the article about the unity of muslims and christians at the end of time from an islamic source and an islamic point of view. There is a part of my questions addressed to muslims . if they will be united then i wanna ask them where are those christians now? Which christians ?
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This is the first time I've heard such things. Can you please give me the sources?
 
Getoffmyback said:
@ramadhan http://www.questionsonislam.com/index.php?s=show_qna&id=1435
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In the article I could not find any Qur'an or ahadeeth sources that say Muslims and christians will join forces towards the end of time. I saw that it is merely an opinion of the writer of the article.

Please show me Qur'an and ahadeeth sources to back up your claim that muslims and christians will join forces towards the end of time.
Otherwise it is merely your baseless opinion and warrants no further response.
 
Grace Seeker said:
By your own statement, this is your opinion and nothing more. I understand that you have an emotional reaction against the idea, but you don't explain how the process of incarnation would diminish God's divine nature. Surely God is not so limited that there are things he cannot do simply because we would seem them as beneath God. A king is still a king whether dressed in royal robes or those of a pauper. His true and loyal subjects would honor him either way. Is there anything beyond personal opinion, any actual tenets of Islam that would say that this is something that God cannot do?
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No where in the Bible did Jesus peace and blessing be upon claim that he was God nor was he any divine figure at all, i'd also like to ask a question i mean he was a jew wasnt he? so he came from a tribe and what not if you think about it deeply it only prove what i have ststed before he can't be God this is a disgusting thing to say because he was a child and he used to drink from his mothers own breast do you think God is like this ??

Very sorry this is a cross line in faith in God No evidnce in any scripture as said before and also No Logical evidence that would bring harmony to human conscience and soul

and just because it is my opion doesnt mean that i am wrong at all.
 
Grace Seeker said:
Surely God is not so limited that there are things he cannot do simply because we would seem them as beneath God
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Limited? sorry bro your argument needs some type of deep analyzation Becoming a Human being is being limited of all limited do you want proof , look at the human eye it can only see what God Want is it see but not beyond or beneath that you need a microscope and other devices to see what God has concealed from you - isnt this limited attribution there is a clear contradiction between what you are saying.
Death = Limit
Hunger= limit
thirst=limit
Mind= has a limit
everything about us humanbeings is limited i dont see how these flawfull attributes can be assigned to the Lord of the universe.
 
@ramadhan i can find ahadith about the end of time will not come untill muslims kill all jews . Also i can find in the quran about the second coming of christ where he will join the mahdi in the final battle of good vs evil (killing the dajal and his followers). Isn't somehow linked the hadith and quran.



So if christ will join mahdi against a common enemy then it means the writer of the article have used (muslims and christians) will unite against them (jews) at the end of time for What reason other than the link between hadith and quran cos both are talking about an event which will take place only at the end of times.
 
Getoffmyback said:
@ramadhan i can find ahadith about the end of time will not come untill muslims kill all jews . Also i can find in the quran about the second coming of christ where he will join the mahdi in the final battle of good vs evil (killing the dajal and his followers). Isn't somehow linked the hadith and quran. So if christ will join mahdi against a common enemy then it means the writer of the article have used (muslims and christians) will unite against them (jews) at the end of time for What reason other than the link between hadith and quran cos both are talking about an event which will take place only at the end of times.
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What's the second coming of christ got to do with muslims and christians unite at the end of time?

You do realize that Jesus (pbuh) will break crosses and kill swines during his second coming, right?

You do realize that Jesus (pbuh) is a prophet of Allah, who will actually fight against those who stray from the path of Allah, those who worship him instead of God, right?

You do realize that Jesus (pbuh) will perform shalah jamaah, right?

So, please, tell me, how do you conclude that Jesus will represent christian?

In any case, Jesus (pbuh) would actually lead war against current christians had he come today.

 
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@ramadhan So christ will come back again as a muslim . What happened to his unaltered message and the way he used to pray to god. If christ's unaltered message promotes the same as islam then Why he doesn't use it on his second coming. Wouldn't it be better if he comes back and tell christians "hey i'm jesus christ and your religion is wrong and now i'm back to tell you that prophet mohamad is real and paraclete meant this and that..... of course after performing some miracles So christians will believe him" instead of waging wars against them. Actually he won't need to kill and break anyone in this case.

But it seems that the only way of reforming bad into good on earth is by good killing the bad that's the only divine formula available.

God knows best
 
Salam akhi Ibn Lubnon,

The bulk of Ahadith dealing with Isa a.s's second coming are not that widely available for reasons to involved to mention here.

Any way Isa a.s will deal with Muslim issues as his return is not to admonish or punish the Christians but rather the wayward Muslims and to deal with the aftermath of dajjal's path of destruction once he has Killed him.
There after he will bring peace to the whole world and rule it for forty years.

What happens with the Jews is a separate issue; there is a story where Arafat is telling Begin the story and Begin replies "yes we Jews know the story, but we are not those Jews and neither are you those Muslims" meaning that in his eyes the Palestinians had not reached that Iman and the Jews in the future would be a lot worse.

Masalam

PS: The second coming Ahadith are more likely to upset Muslim sensitivities than any one else.
 
Getoffmyback said:
@ramadhan So christ will come back again as a muslim
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Christ was a muslim, so of course he will come back again as a muslim.
You do understand the meaning of Islam and muslim, do you?

Getoffmyback said:
What happened to his unaltered message and the way he used to pray to god
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His unaltered message was Islam and the way he used to pray to Allah was the same as a muslim. He performed, shalah, fasting, and zakah.

Getoffmyback said:
If christ's unaltered message promotes the same as islam then Why he doesn't use it on his second coming. Wouldn't it be better if he comes back and tell christians "hey i'm jesus christ and your religion is wrong and now i'm back to tell you that prophet mohamad is real and paraclete meant this and that..... of course after performing some miracles So christians will believe him"
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Well, by the time of his second coming, apart from true muslims, most of the world will have believed in the dajjal al maseeh (the anti christ), and prophet Jesus (pbuh) will lead great war against dajjal al maseeh (the anti christ). When you look at todays situation, most of western countries are already operating under the anti christ system.

Getoffmyback said:
Actually he won't need to kill and break anyone in this case.
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Even during the time of prophet Jesus (pbuh) and Muhammad (pbuh) they already performed miracles, and yet many did not believe in him. And even now with many modern "miracles", do you think misguided people would believe in what Jesus (pbuh) will be saying, aside from the true believers?
And yes, prophet Jesus (pbuh) will break crosses because they are idol symbols.

Getoffmyback said:
But it seems that the only way of reforming bad into good on earth is by good killing the bad that's the only divine formula available.
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I didn't say that's the only way. But, there will always be enemies of Islam who will still wage the war against armies of Islam led by Jesus (pbuh).
 
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Ramadhan said:


Christ was a muslim, so of course he will come back again as a muslim.
You do understand the meaning of Islam and muslim, do you?
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Man Ok i know you're better than me and i accept the way you patronize me cos i can't reply with anything But a loud none sarcastic laugh from my heart:)
 
Ramadhan said:



You do understand the meaning of Islam and muslim, do you?
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Man Ok i know you're better than me and i accept the way you patronize me cos i can't reply with anything But a loud none sarcastic laugh from my heart:)

Edit: actualy that's What wanted to quote But still a laugh from the heart cause you're better than me in knowing it based on your beliefs
 

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