Five Pillars of Islam

Hi Ramadhan


I agree with you that some translators are making mistakes by not putting words into brackets that we do not find in the original arabic version

For people who do not understand they are mislead by what they are reading

Can you tell me how can you build a house in the desert 2 000 years ago ? step by step


Peace

The Sahara is a much sparser desert than the Arabian desert especially around Makkah. Yet, look at the Pyramids that were built there. Tell me step by step how the pyramids were built in a barren land over 3,000 years ago. Look at may of the ancient cities, Have you ever seen the ruins of Volubilis in Morocco? Ancient cities of the Hopi and Navajo in the American Southwest?Look at the ancient city of Timbuktu built in possibly the most barren land ever occupied by man.
 
What I find strange with muslims they say in one side the Bible is totally false

In another side when they need some arguments they go in the same false Bible picking up what they need !!!!


Do you consider the Bible false ? true ?

Nearly always when we quote from the bible we do so to show that even the person's own reference disagrees with what they are saying. As for believing if there is any truth in the Bible? Of course there is, even with deletions, changes, additions some remnants of truth still remain. We do know that all of the Prophets(PBUT) spoke the Truth, and even is their true words may be hard to find, It is most probable that at least of it remains in the Bible. The difficulty is trying to finds what is the Truth. We go by the assumption that all that is in agreement with the Quran, is true.
 
Can you tell me how can you build a house in the desert 2 000 years ago ? step by step

Go back and read my post #17.

Now tell me how the great wall of china was built across the Gobi desert (much much sparser than anything Makka has been) 2,000 years ago. Step by step.
 


Go back and read my post #17.

Now tell me how the great wall of china was built across the Gobi desert (much much sparser than anything Makka has been) 2,000 years ago. Step by step.


Peace Ramadhan


The difference with all building built a long, long time ago they were many, they had tools and logistics ............................

We are talking here with only 2 personns => Abraham and his son Ishmael

They built the Kaaba I think that mean CUBE ? no ?

The cube has 4 walls how they could stuck stones togeteher in the desert ? in the desert could not find any clay ?

If they built a house for god they supposed to build also a roof no ? tell me how can you build a roof without any woods, steel .....

Keep in mind we are talking about something about 2 000 years ago, in the desert, by 2 personns



Peace
 
Nearly always when we quote from the bible we do so to show that even the person's own reference disagrees with what they are saying. As for believing if there is any truth in the Bible? Of course there is, even with deletions, changes, additions some remnants of truth still remain. We do know that all of the Prophets(PBUT) spoke the Truth, and even is their true words may be hard to find, It is most probable that at least of it remains in the Bible. The difficulty is trying to finds what is the Truth. We go by the assumption that all that is in agreement with the Quran, is true.


Peace Woodrow


I agree with all the Bible is not false but I talked to many muslims around the world and they told me the opposite of what you are saying.

That the Bible is totally false from the first page to the last which is a non sense, because inside the bible we have god's and prophetes's words.


Peace.
 
Peace Ramadhan


The difference with all building built a long, long time ago they were many, they had tools and logistics ............................

We are talking here with only 2 personns => Abraham and his son Ishmael

They built the Kaaba I think that mean CUBE ? no ?

The cube has 4 walls how they could stuck stones togeteher in the desert ? in the desert could not find any clay ?

If they built a house for god they supposed to build also a roof no ? tell me how can you build a roof without any woods, steel .....

Keep in mind we are talking about something about 2 000 years ago, in the desert, by 2 personns



Peace
Roof ?. Who said Ibrahim (as) and Ismail (as) built roof for Ka'bah ?. The Ka'bah that they built was only stones pile, without roof.

Then, more than 2000 years later, Arab people found a Rome wooden ship that aground near Jedah. They brought woods from that ship to Ma'kah to build roof for Ka'bah. There was a problem when they would put Hajar Aswad (The Black Stone) in Kab'ah. But then a guy came and gave them solution. He's Muhammad Ibn Abdullah who later became Rasulullah (saw).
 
The difference with all building built a long, long time ago they were many, they had tools and logistics ............................

Yes, can you tell step by step how in the middle of gobi desert they built the great wall?

We are talking here with only 2 personns => Abraham and his son Ishmael

yes, only two persons, what exactly is your problem? You need to make your question and objection clear.

They built the Kaaba I think that mean CUBE ? no ?

yes, so?

The cube has 4 walls how they could stuck stones togeteher in the desert ? in the desert could not find any clay ?

Do you actually have reading problem? Did you not read br. Woodrow's posts and my post above?
There ARE plenty of rocks and stones in Makkah/Bakkah/Beca, and whoever told you Kaaba made of clay? Terry Jones? Jerry Falwell? the pope? Your local missionary and fundies?

Since I'm afraid you'll ask again, here's how prophet Ibrahim and Ishmail (as) built kaaba:

step 1:
Ibrahim (pbuh) picked up a rock, and placed on a location he wanted to build the house. Ishmil (as) followed hsi father example, and put a rock next to the one placed by his father earlier.
step 2:
Ibrahim and Ishmail (pbuh) picked up more rocks, and placed them next to the previous rocks and on top of them
step 3:
Repeat setp 1 and 2 until a four side walls with a gap for door is completed.

There you go, kaaba was completed in easy three steps.

Now, please tell me how the pyramids and the great walls were built in area where there was only sand, and no rocks or stones available. Step by step.

If they built a house for god they supposed to build also a roof no ? tell me how can you build a roof without any woods, steel .....

I'm sorry, but how old are you?
First, you don't need woods or steel to built a roof. Otherwise, please explain to us how the egyptians built the roof on their houses and pyramids without woods and steel. Step by step.
Second, There was never roof on kaaba, even during the time of prophet Muhammad SAW.

An advice: before you go on an attack on islam, please read elementary basic information about Islam to avoid embarrassment. At least read them from neutral sites, not from Islam haters who fabricate stories and create disinformation about Islam.

Keep in mind we are talking about something about 2 000 years ago, in the desert, by 2 personns

Keep in mind....on a second thought..I'm not even sure if you have sound mind, as evidenced by your repeatedly failing to read and/or understand simple sentences writtten in these answers to your questions.
 
Last edited:
That the Bible is totally false from the first page to the last which is a non sense, because inside the bible we have god's and prophetes's words.


So you agree that there are falsehoods in the bible, and yet you still follow them?

Why don't you follow the Qur'an wherein there's not one single falsehood?
 



So you agree that there are falsehoods in the bible, and yet you still follow them?

Why don't you follow the Qur'an wherein there's not one single falsehood?



Hi Ramadhan,



What I agree is in the 3 religions there are mistakes and things wrong.

I will not follow the Quran because I found manythings strange for me is for that I am here to try to get answers to my questions.


Peace
 


Yes, can you tell step by step how in the middle of gobi desert they built the great wall?



yes, only two persons, what exactly is your problem? You need to make your question and objection clear.



yes, so?



Do you actually have reading problem? Did you not read br. Woodrow's posts and my post above?
There ARE plenty of rocks and stones in Makkah/Bakkah/Beca, and whoever told you Kaaba made of clay? Terry Jones? Jerry Falwell? the pope? Your local missionary and fundies?

Since I'm afraid you'll ask again, here's how prophet Ibrahim and Ishmail (as) built kaaba:

step 1:
Ibrahim (pbuh) picked up a rock, and placed on a location he wanted to build the house. Ishmil (as) followed hsi father example, and put a rock next to the one placed by his father earlier.
step 2:
Ibrahim and Ishmail (pbuh) picked up more rocks, and placed them next to the previous rocks and on top of them
step 3:
Repeat setp 1 and 2 until a four side walls with a gap for door is completed.

There you go, kaaba was completed in easy three steps.

Now, please tell me how the pyramids and the great walls were built in area where there was only sand, and no rocks or stones available. Step by step.



I'm sorry, but how old are you?
First, you don't need woods or steel to built a roof. Otherwise, please explain to us how the egyptians built the roof on their houses and pyramids without woods and steel. Step by step.
Second, There was never roof on kaaba, even during the time of prophet Muhammad SAW.

An advice: before you go on an attack on islam, please read elementary basic information about Islam to avoid embarrassment. At least read them from neutral sites, not from Islam haters who fabricate stories and create disinformation about Islam.



Keep in mind....on a second thought..I'm not even sure if you have sound mind, as evidenced by your repeatedly failing to read and/or understand simple sentences writtten in these answers to your questions.


Lets say they build the Kaaba.

Can you tell me how they reach Makka from Jerusalem ? sorry If I sound stupid but I would like to understand.

I would like to tell you that I hate nobody, I love everybody and we are free to follow our path with respect to all people around the world.


Peace.
 
Lets say they build the Kaaba. Can you tell me how they reach Makka from Jerusalem ? sorry If I sound stupid but I would like to understand.

First, let me ask you: who told you Ibrahim (pbuh) resided in Jerusalem? Abraham never resided in Jerusalem. You confused Ibrahim (pbuh) with Jesus (pbuh). Ibrahim (pbuh) traveled all over the place and resided mostly in canaan.
Anyway, here's how one might travel from Jerusalem (or canaan or anywhere in the region) to Makkah (by the way, you were wrong when you said prophet Ibrahim (as) time was 2,000 years ago, even prophet Jesus (as) was born more than 2,000 years ago, so it is very very clear you confused between Jesus (pbuh and Ibrahim as) few thousands years ago:

1. by foot, or
2. on camel, or
3. on donkey

My question to you:
Now, can you tell me how Ibrahim (pbuh) traveled to jerusalem from ur, mesopotamia (today Iraq) where he was originally from?
The distance of Ur- jerusalem is farther than the distance jerusalem-makkah.
Also, I'm surprised that as a christian you never read your bible, for if you have read your bible, you would have known that Ibrahim (pbuh) traveled all over the region from mesopotamia to canaan to philistine to egypt to damascus to jazeera.
Now, can you tell me how Ibrahim (pbuh) traveled from egypt to damascus?
Even your bible tell the stories of Ibrahim, siti Hagar (as) and Ishmail (as) travel to paran/makkah where Ishmail (pbuh) was inspired and found the zam zam well in genesis 21:14:21

When you really don't know, please sincerely ask question, and you wouldn't look stupid, but if you copy and paste "questions" from Islamic hate sites, that would make you look stupid.
 
Last edited:
What I agree is in the 3 religions there are mistakes and things wrong.

So you agree that there are many wrong mistakes and wrong things in Bible, then why do you follow mistakes and errors?
Shouldn't the truth and words of god contain no mistakes and errors?

I will not follow the Quran because I found manythings strange for me is for that I am here to try to get answers to my questions.

Truth is always clear and free from falsehood. truth does not depend whether a person find it strange and does not change because of that.
If you have any sincere question about Islam, please ask away :)
Unlike the other religions where there's a lot of secret and a lot of "it's a mystery" and "it's all faith", in Islam there is no secret :)
 
First, let me ask you: who told you Ibrahim (pbuh) resided in Jerusalem? Abraham never resided in Jerusalem. You confused Ibrahim (pbuh) with Jesus (pbuh). Ibrahim (pbuh) traveled all over the place and resided mostly in canaan.
Anyway, here's how one might travel from Jerusalem (or canaan or anywhere in the region) to Makkah (by the way, you were wrong when you said prophet Ibrahim (as) time was 2,000 years ago, even prophet Jesus (as) was born more than 2,000 years ago, so it is very very clear you confused between Jesus (pbuh and Ibrahim as) few thousands years ago:

1. by foot, or
2. on camel, or
3. on donkey

My question to you:
Now, can you tell me how Ibrahim (pbuh) traveled to jerusalem from ur, mesopotamia (today Iraq) where he was originally from?
The distance of Ur- jerusalem is farther than the distance jerusalem-makkah.
Also, I'm surprised that as a christian you never read your bible, for if you have read your bible, you would have known that Ibrahim (pbuh) traveled all over the region from mesopotamia to canaan to philistine to egypt to damascus to jazeera.
Now, can you tell me how Ibrahim (pbuh) traveled from egypt to damascus?
Even your bible tell the stories of Ibrahim, siti Hagar (as) and Ishmail (as) travel to paran/makkah where Ishmail (pbuh) was inspired and found the zam zam well in genesis 21:14:21

When you really don't know, please sincerely ask question, and you wouldn't look stupid, but if you copy and paste "questions" from Islamic hate sites, that would make you look stupid.


Hi Ramadhan


I know that Ibrahim travelled from Syria, to egypt and cannan but I am less sure by trvelling to Makka.

I am not confusing Jesus and Ibrahaim because about Ibrahim I said about 2 000 years

I read the bible but I am not Jew, not christians and not muslim I beleive in god the eternal god, the only one the one who has no name.

I do not know really how he travelled I will look for it and will tell you.

Following islamic teaching how Ibrahim went to Maaka ? give me some hadeets or veres in the quran ?

I told you I hate nobody I love all humans around the world, how I can hate somebody we are all from Adam.



Peace
 
I know that Ibrahim travelled from Syria, to egypt and cannan but I am less sure by trvelling to Makka.

So whats actually your problem about Ibrahim (pbuh) traveling to Makkah when in genesis it is narrated also that he traveled to Bakkah and Paran with siti Hagar and Ishmail (pbut).

Now please explain to me how Ibrahim reached Canaan from Mesopotamia?

I am not confusing Jesus and Ibrahaim because about Ibrahim I said about 2 000 years

You are confusing them actually. Prophet Jesus (pbuh) lived about 2,000 years ago, while Ibrahim (pbuh) around 4,000 years ago.

Following islamic teaching how Ibrahim went to Maaka ? give me some hadeets or veres in the quran ?

There is no narration of the modes of travel of the prophets (PBUT) in the Qur'an, just pick up Al Qur'an, read it and you'll understand.

I told you I hate nobody I love all humans around the world, how I can hate somebody we are all from Adam.

Let's a have a hug and sing kumbaya.
 


So whats actually your problem about Ibrahim (pbuh) traveling to Makkah when in genesis it is narrated also that he traveled to Bakkah and Paran with siti Hagar and Ishmail (pbut).

Now please explain to me how Ibrahim reached Canaan from Mesopotamia?



You are confusing them actually. Prophet Jesus (pbuh) lived about 2,000 years ago, while Ibrahim (pbuh) around 4,000 years ago.



There is no narration of the modes of travel of the prophets (PBUT) in the Qur'an, just pick up Al Qur'an, read it and you'll understand.



Let's a have a hug and sing kumbaya.



Peace Ramadhan


Bakkah is not the place of Maaka, Bakkah is the valley that they cross is not the final destination


Abraham reached Canaan by foot or donkeys or hosrses, but he did not cross a desert but places where people used to live and full of water.

Can you tell me how many liters, food, shoes ...... they needed to travel about 1 200 kilometers on that time with nobody living in the desert.


Peace.
 
I bring some ahadeeths

Volume 4, Book 55, Number 582:
Narrated Ibn 'Abbas:
The Prophet said, "May Allah bestow His Mercy on the mother of Ishmael! Had she not hastened (to fill her water-skin with water from the Zam-zam well). Zam-zam would have been a stream flowing on the surface of the earth." Ibn 'Abbas further added, "(The Prophet) Abraham brought Ishmael and his mother (to Mecca) and she was suckling Ishmael and she had a water-skin with her.'





Volume 4, Book 55, Number 583:
Narrated Ibn Abbas:
The first lady to use a girdle was the mother of Ishmael. She used a girdle so that she might hide her tracks from Sarah. Abraham brought her and her son Ishmael while she was suckling him, to a place near the Ka'ba under a tree on the spot of Zam-zam, at the highest place in the mosque. During those days there was nobody in Mecca, nor was there any water So he made them sit over there and placed near them a leather bag containing some dates, and a small water-skin containing some water, and set out homeward. Ishmael's mother followed him saying, "O Abraham! Where are you going, leaving us in this valley where there is no person whose company we may enjoy, nor is there anything (to enjoy)?" She repeated that to him many times, but he did not look back at her Then she asked him, "Has Allah ordered you to do so?" He said, "Yes." She said, "Then He will not neglect us," and returned while Abraham proceeded onwards, and on reaching the Thaniya where they could not see him, he faced the Ka'ba, and raising both hands, invoked Allah saying the following prayers:
'O our Lord! I have made some of my offspring dwell in a valley without cultivation, by Your Sacred House (Kaba at Mecca) in order, O our Lord, that they may offer prayer perfectly. So fill some hearts among men with love towards them, and (O Allah) provide them with fruits, so that they may give thanks.' (14.37) Ishmael's mother went on suckling Ishmael and drinking from the water (she had).







Read the ahadeets above and tell me how they reached Makka and from where ?






Peace.


 


So whats actually your problem about Ibrahim (pbuh) traveling to Makkah when in genesis it is narrated also that he traveled to Bakkah and Paran with siti Hagar and Ishmail (pbut).

Now please explain to me how Ibrahim reached Canaan from Mesopotamia?



You are confusing them actually. Prophet Jesus (pbuh) lived about 2,000 years ago, while Ibrahim (pbuh) around 4,000 years ago.



There is no narration of the modes of travel of the prophets (PBUT) in the Qur'an, just pick up Al Qur'an, read it and you'll understand.



Let's a have a hug and sing kumbaya.


Peace


[2:126] And remember Abraham said: "My Lord, make this a City of Peace, and feed its people with fruits,-such of them as believe in Allah and the Last Day." He said: "(Yea), and such as reject Faith,-for a while will I grant them their pleasure, but will soon drive them to the torment of Fire,- an evil destination (indeed)!"


Fruits in Makkah


For me Abraham was not in Makka for asking Allah to grow fruits in the desert where nobody lived.



Peace.
 
Peace


[2:126] And remember Abraham said: "My Lord, make this a City of Peace, and feed its people with fruits,-such of them as believe in Allah and the Last Day." He said: "(Yea), and such as reject Faith,-for a while will I grant them their pleasure, but will soon drive them to the torment of Fire,- an evil destination (indeed)!"


Fruits in Makkah


For me Abraham was not in Makka for asking Allah to grow fruits in the desert where nobody lived.



Peace.
It is a prayer of Abraham (pbuh) to God it is figurative to mean prosperity. Abraham (pbuh) in his prayer is asking God to keep its people prosperous. And even though it is barren desert it has been prosperous throughout history one way or another.

Here are verses that are of value:

And convey good news to those who believe and do good deeds, that they shall have gardens in which rivers flow; whenever they shall be given a portion of the fruit thereof, they shall say: This is what was given to us before; and they shall be given the like of it, and they shall have pure mates in them, and in them, they shall abide.
Surely Allah is not ashamed to set forth any parable-- (that of) a gnat or any thing above that; then as for those who believe, they know that it is the truth from their Lord, and as for those who disbelieve, they say: What is it that Allah means by this parable: He causes many to err by it and many He leads aright by it! but He does not cause to err by it (any) except the transgressors,


The connection between the nature of fruits constantly changing in taste to purified spouses in Paradise along with Allah not being 'ashamed to set forth any parable' is obvious. The disbelievers were trying to poke holes in the Quran at the parables God had used to explain the nature of a world never experienced before by human beings, i.e. "no human beings knows what is in store for them". Allah states quite clearly that he has no qualms in using what the disbelievers consider as 'trivial' such as a gnat to explain higher truths, which is the ultimate goal, and in the end, as the Quran says in another place, the disbelievers cannot even 'create a fly' and if the 'fly' were to snatch something from the food given to the idols, the disbelievers, let alone their gods, would never be able to retrieve it.

The main implication is that these poking holes was clearly an agenda, meant to divest away from the reality of the message as well as it's inimitability, which is alluded to a few verses up in the challenge to produce anything like the Quran. The Quran states that one can only profit from the Quran when one approaches it with seriousness and a desire to understand the truth.

In other places of the Quran, this same mentality is referred to regarding the disbelievers. For example, the "tree of zaquum" whose branches are like 'heads of devils' is called a 'trial for the disbelievers' in the Quran, the implication being, when the disbelievers heard about this, they stated "Look at Muhammad!!! He says Hell is a place of fire and boiling water, and at the same time, he is telling us that a tree can grow in it." In another instance, the Quran states that Hell has nineteen over it, and the disbelivers would argue, "Look at Muhammad!!! He says Hell is this vast place that will punish the disbelievers, and yet, only nineteen angels will maintain it. If such is the case, our own numbers will deal with these angels when we get there."

The Quran states that a believer increases in his faith when he heras such things, for he understands the might of God, as well as the fact that his powers are not limited by the extent of a 'person's thought'. As the Quran states in many instances, who was it that created the universe out of nothing in the first place? Is he not capable of creating another?

(Copied from another forum)
 

Similar Threads

Back
Top