How Do I Respond? Quran 7:80, question about the origins of homosexuality...

[anonymous]

So I've been faced with a very interesting question from a non muslim friend of mine, and I was hoping you guys would be able to help me formulate a response. Basically, the issue he brought up was concerning 7:80, which basically states that the people of Lot had committed an indecency (homosexuality I'm presuming) that wasn't committed by any being before. From what I understand, the word used here was "al-aalamin", which seems to refer to all of creation, correct? This would mean animals too... His point was that we now have documented cases of many animals that engage in homosexual behavior, and many of these animals have existed thousands of years ago. He's basically saying there must have been homosexuality before this, if not by humans, than by animals, and therefore the Quran is most likely mistaken. Can anyone help me out? It's an interesting point that I've never had to deal with before.

 

[ardianto]

Sahih International translation for surah Al-A'raf : 80
"And [We had sent] Lot when he said to his people, "Do you commit such immorality as no one has preceded you with from among the worlds?"


"Alam" is not "creation" but "universe/world". Minal Aalamin in surah 7:80 means "from among the worlds".

Might be you have read a documentary about animals that engaged in homosexuality behavior. But, the question is : are we human or animal ?.

 

[جوري]

animals are also not monogamous so if they're taking animals as an example of what's natural, why do they ban polygamy and endorse homosexuality? if we're going to go all animal like then one of those acts is a futile cycle while the other perpetuates life!

best,

 

[aamirsaab]

animals are also not monogamous so if they're taking animals as an example of what's natural, why do they ban polygamy and endorse homosexuality? if we're going to go all animal like then one of those acts is a futile cycle while the other perpetuates life!

best,

/Close thread

 

[anonymous]

animals are also not monogamous so if they're taking animals as an example of what's natural, why do they ban polygamy and endorse homosexuality? if we're going to go all animal like then one of those acts is a futile cycle while the other perpetuates life!

But that's not what he was asking about. The problem he had with the verse is that it seems to be referring to all of creation (Al-Aalamiin) and so he says if it refers to all of creation, then it must refer to animals as well... and he says that in that case, it most likely isn't accurate because he says theres a good chance those animals that have homosexual tendencies now were still around thousands of years ago.

 

[جوري]

But that's not what he was asking about. The problem he had with the verse is that it seems to be referring to all of creation (Al-Aalamiin) and so he says if it refers to all of creation, then it must refer to animals as well... and he says that in that case, it most likely isn't accurate because he says theres a good chance those animals that have homosexual tendencies now were still around thousands of years ago.

he doesn't get to dictate Arabic to Arabic speakers! --the consensus is that الْعَالَمِينَ denotes mankind!.. animals at large are usually referred to in the Quran as الأنعام or دَابَّةٍ as in verse:
إِنَّ فِي خَلْقِ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضِ وَاخْتِلَافِ اللَّيْلِ وَالنَّهَارِ وَالْفُلْكِ الَّتِي تَجْرِي فِي الْبَحْرِ بِمَا يَنْفَعُ النَّاسَ وَمَا أَنْزَلَ اللَّهُ مِنَ السَّمَاءِ مِنْ مَاءٍ فَأَحْيَا بِهِ الْأَرْضَ بَعْدَ مَوْتِهَا وَبَثَّ فِيهَا مِنْ كُلِّ دَابَّةٍ وَتَصْرِيفِ الرِّيَاحِ وَالسَّحَابِ الْمُسَخَّرِ بَيْنَ السَّمَاءِ وَالْأَرْضِ لَآيَاتٍ لِقَوْمٍ يَعْقِلُونَ [FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica]{164}
[SIZE=-1][Pickthal 2:164] Lo! In the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the difference of night and day, and the ships which run upon the sea with that which is of use to men, and the water which Allah sendeth down from the sky, thereby reviving the earth after its death, and dispersing all kinds of beasts therein, and (in) the ordinance of the winds, and the clouds obedient between heaven and earth: are signs (of Allah's Sovereignty) for people who have sense.

or

إِنَّ شَرَّ الدَّوَابِّ عِنْدَ اللَّهِ الصُّمُّ الْبُكْمُ الَّذِينَ لَا يَعْقِلُونَ [FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica]{22}[/FONT]
[SIZE=-1][Pickthal 8:22] Lo! the worst of beasts in Allah's sight are the deaf, the dumb, who have no sense.[/SIZE]

plural in this verse.. so is it really your friend who is asking or is it you?

if we are to strictly to go by 'animal behavior' then let's adopt ALL animal behavior which would include polygamy. Research courtesy of atheists shows that men by their very nature aren't monogamous, so why is one animal act so applauded while the other is so appalling when one is clearly purely hedonistic and carnal while the other at least ensures survival of the specie?

best,[/SIZE][/FONT]