Wanting some clarification on website I've come across

Saffy786,

What is your point exactly?

I was going to write exactly the same thing as what sis. Insaanah wrote above.

And even if Encyclopedia Britannica said crucifixion did not exist before 500 BC, how do you know it is true?
Human knowledge keep changing all the time, and especially in the field of ancient history: they keep getting revised.
Let me give you an example: Only 20 years ago scientists believed human only started to colonize Australia around 30,000 years ago., but then they found more discoveries along the way and now they changed their earlier estimate and claimed human already arrived in Australia as early as 45,000 years ago with some scientists even said 70,000 years ago.
so You see, our knowledge and even science keep changing all the time and it is never absolute. So even if britannica says that something is A, it does not mean that it actually is A.

But thanks to sis. Insaanah, we know that encyclopaedia britannica did not make that stupid mistake and never claimed that crucifixion did not exist before 500 BC.
Also, the word that is used in the Qur'an verse does not mean roman crucifixion (geometrical cross), but more "impalement and hanging by suspension", and there are even ancient carved panels that show this method of killing was used by Assyrian kings (800-900 BC) and even in egyptian hieroglyphs.

Hence it is clear in that one sentence alone from anti-Islamic website, there are already so many lies.

My advice to you has not changed:
study Islam, strengthen your knowledge, learn how to read Qur'an and study arabic, and keep away from anti-Islamic sites.


 
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Insaanah said:
You have GOT to stop this.



It is one thing for someone to say something to you, and for you to have doubts about it, but it is another thing altogether for you to go out of your way to actively look for such things, which is what you appear to be doing.

You have put yourself on a dangerous path. If you want to look at these things, strengthen your knowledge of Islam first, so that you know how to deal with them. If you don't know where to start, even if it's the basics of the deen, post new threads in the other sections of the forum, and read the beneficial threads in the Worship in Islam, Aqeedah, New to Islam, etc sections. Create threads there and your brothers and sisters on the forum will do the best they can to help you learn and to strengthen your faith.

As the brothers have already pointed out to you, these sites are full of lies. Like the ayah the enemies of Islam said was about embryology when it was actually about the resurrection of a dead donkey. But you just believe anything they say.



Firstly, there is not one, but two blaring errors actually in their question. They have just picked a verse at random without knowledge. The actual reference for the verse in question is 7:124, not 7:125. Secondly, crucifixion at the time of Prophet Musa alayhi assalaam is not the earliest record in the Qur'an.

Pickthall
"O my two fellow-prisoners! As for one of you, he will pour out wine for his lord to drink; and as for the other, he will be crucified so that the birds will eat from his head. Thus is the case judged concerning which ye did inquire." (Qur'an 12:41) It actually existed before the time of Musa alayhi assalaam, at least at the time of Prophet Yusuf alayhi assalaam, if not before.

And, a scholarly article with in depth research into the history of crucifixion, that examines ancient written and pictorial evidence, says that crucifixion existed at least 1700 years bc, and even earlier, not just 500 years bc as the liars want you to believe. They have no brains and use their tools of lying, twisting facts and hiding facts they don't want you to know, to mislead people. The article says, "What is interesting to note is that the earliest available evidence of the occurrence of crucifixion in ancient Egypt is seen in Papyrus Boulaq 18 from the time of Sobekhotep II / Chendjer of the 13th Dynasty in the Second Intermediate Period. Joseph, according to majority of scholars, entered Egypt during the rule of the Hyksos who formed the 15th and 16th Dynasties in the Second Intermediate Period. This means that crucifixion happened in Egypt even before Joseph entered Egypt."

http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Contrad/External/crucify.html

In this example you have quoted, I have checked the liars source, the Encyclopedia Britannica, and, as usual, they are lying again. They want to turn people away from Islam, and cause doubt in people's hearts, and they have you wrapped around their little finger.



This is a lie. The Encyclopedia Britannica states no such thing. This is what it says, "Crucifixion, an important method of capital punishment, particularly among the Persians, Seleucids, Carthaginians, and Romans from about the 6th century bce to the 4th century ce."

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/144583/crucifixion

In other words it was a method of punishment, particularly popular among that group of people, at about those times. It does NOT say that it did not exist before that. It says it is notable particularly in those periods among those people. Nowhere does it say it did not occur before this. Not only does the Encyclopedia Britannica not say that, but also no other sources say that it did not exist before 500BC. Another lie of theirs exposed.

History is only as good as the written/pictorial/archeological records on which it's based. If something happened plenty, and for a long time, but didn't get recorded in writing, or the records didn't survive the rigours of time, does that mean it never happened? Think for yourself. And Allah's record is the most accurate, as He knows everything that ever happened, and when it happened.



Astaghfirullah, they even mock the name of our Holy book.


I agree. I rest my case here; it shows every kind of lie and falsehood they are using. If you persist on going to such sites, and reading such lies and falsehood, rather than the beautiful truth Allah has sent down to us, I will not be answering any longer.

I hope to see you posting, in future, in threads to increase your Islamic knowledge, where your brothers and sisters can help you with knowledge of the deen, rather than this one.
Click to expand...

Well thank you very much for your response, it was very informing indeed. I could never have estimated the no. of lies to to be found there, and you are right no matter how much I try, until I stop going on these sites I will not improve. I worry so much over these things when I visit such sites, and they will all prove to be false as always, I have concluded. So much worrying for nothing I think. I understood your answer completely, and this site I am now finally convinced is a completely false site. I am embarassed to admit that this site did have wrapped around its little finger, and I did become so doubtful from pretty much this site and all it's articles alone. So now I am truly going to close this chapter, and I know doubts will recur as is their nature though I know what to do now. Most importantly, I'll refer back to this thread, though I feel fairly confident I should not allow these things to bother me again.

I am insha Allah going to take my Islamic History book out which we used to study at Madrassa some time ago, because I know it is all interesting and I would enjoy reading and studying it. I have always been fascinated in history and love learning new things, and in this case I was so shook by all the doubts and confusions that I just didn't feel motivated to work through them all and find relief. I will start looking into things gradually when I can make time out for them, and insha Allah I will. JazakAllah for your help, you seem to be an intelligent woman, sister.
 
Ramadhan said:
Saffy786,

What is your point exactly?

I was going to write exactly the same thing as what sis. Insaanah wrote above.

And even if Encyclopedia Britannica said crucifixion did not exist before 500 BC, how do you know it is true?
Human knowledge keep changing all the time, and especially in the field of ancient history: they keep getting revised.
Let me give you an example: Only 20 years ago scientists believed human only started to colonize Australia around 30,000 years ago., but then they found more discoveries along the way and now they changed their earlier estimate and claimed human already arrived in Australia as early as 45,000 years ago with some scientists even said 70,000 years ago.
so You see, our knowledge and even science keep changing all the time and it is never absolute. So even if britannica says that something is A, it does not mean that it actually is A.

But thanks to sis. Insaanah, we know that encyclopaedia britannica did not make that stupid mistake and never claimed that crucifixion did not exist before 500 BC.
Also, the word that is used in the Qur'an verse does not mean roman crucifixion (geometrical cross), but more "impalement and hanging by suspension", and there are even ancient carved panels that show this method of killing was used by Assyrian kings (800-900 BC) and even in egyptian hieroglyphs.

Hence it is clear in that one sentence alone from anti-Islamic website, there are already so many lies.

My advice to you has not changed:
study Islam, strengthen your knowledge, learn how to read Qur'an and study arabic, and keep away from anti-Islamic sites.
Click to expand...

JazakAllah for your help too, I will try now to follow your advice :statisfie
 
Saffy786 said:
Well thank you very much for your response, it was very informing indeed. I could never have estimated the no. of lies to to be found there, and you are right no matter how much I try, until I stop going on these sites I will not improve. I worry so much over these things when I visit such sites, and they will all prove to be false as always, I have concluded. So much worrying for nothing I think. I understood your answer completely, and this site I am now finally convinced is a completely false site. I am embarassed to admit that this site did have wrapped around its little finger, and I did become so doubtful from pretty much this site and all it's articles alone. So now I am truly going to close this chapter, and I know doubts will recur as is their nature though I know what to do now. Most importantly, I'll refer back to this thread, though I feel fairly confident I should not allow these things to bother me again.

I am insha Allah going to take my Islamic History book out which we used to study at Madrassa some time ago, because I know it is all interesting and I would enjoy reading and studying it. I have always been fascinated in history and love learning new things, and in this case I was so shook by all the doubts and confusions that I just didn't feel motivated to work through them all and find relief. I will start looking into things gradually when I can make time out for them, and insha Allah I will. JazakAllah for your help,
Click to expand...

Wa iyyaak. Alhamdulillah, I am glad to hear it. May Allah help you, make things easy for you, increase you in Islamic knowledge, and may He give you peace of mind and heart in the beauty and Ultimate Truth of His words, ameen.

:sl:
 
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I dont know if its the skeptic in me, do you guys really believe that the OP is a Muslim?

I mean ignorance is one thing and then stupidity is another. He keeps on pestering same questions again and again, and never acknowledges his mistake. As ramadhan showed that donkey verse was taken out of context, this OP never replied to that and said "I apologize, I see the truth now." No. Rather he keeps on bullshi-itting about how he likes to discover new things and bull-crap.

and then he talks about mental problems. If you have mental problems that are this severe, your psychiatrist should have told your parents to nto elt you sit on internet, lest you start going on suicide sites and commit suicide or start going on murder sites and then go out one day to a middle school and maim small children.
 
oh God, I realized this thread was dead for quite some time.

epic fail for reviving an ancient thread!
 

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