Abz2000
Abz Iz Back!!!
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i also think it's something psychological and natural since the women like to show their friends how treasured they are, (like when big brother or dad picks them up from school or college in the best car),
and also show the future husband that they ain't free and require effort.
but personally i think it's a bit inconsiderate, as it makes life more of a struggle for them both - and when they end up taking out a haram bank loan to fund it - the blessing is not there.
my friend who lives a few floors above me got married last year, they spent some 20-30k on a lavish wedding, diamonds, gold etc,
he was reluctant and would always come to me for advice since he knew i study a lot and practice what i can,
i told him to say he couldn't and if she was the right person for him, she would be understanding - otherwise it's not worth it from the start,
however his mum made him and his dad sort it, he took out a big bank loan etc and got married,
for the first few weeks she told him she was unwell and couldn't uhuuum,
slowly i noticed some sort of friction, and she would spend as much time as possible at her parents and he was always angry and frustrated,
then after a couple of months they broke up,
it turned out that she couldn't uhuum - because she was a hermaphrodite.
she had just hoped that since he'd stuck by her and told her he loved her, he'd slowly just come to terms with it and accept it, and they'd live happily ever after.
but she didn't tell him anything about herself, and nor did her parents tell his parents,
sad,
he was sooooo depressed, and when he was angry at her deceit and told her he couldn't stay married to her - she took off with all the gold and diamonds etc,
i couldn't understand her family's demand for the lavish wedding, but i guess it must've been to tie him in.
well thats 30k "well spent",
i had even sat with him before the wedding googling and giving him hadiths of the Prophet regarding reasonable weddings, and the fact that he was taking out a haraam bank loan would mean there's no blessing on Allah's part and he agreed with me but couldn't get the women to budge,
A dower can be a very little amount. At the time of the Prophet, a woman accepted a pair of shoes as her dower. The Prophet asked her whether it was her decision and whether she accepts. She answered in the affirmative and he endorsed the marriage. Another woman came to the Prophet and declared that she makes a gift of herself to the Prophet. A man asked him to marry her to him. The Prophet asked him whether he had anything to give her by-way of dower. The man said that he had nothing except his dress. The Prophet said that if he were to give her his dress, he would have nothing to wear. The man tried to fund something to give her but could come up with nothing. The Prophet said try to send even a ring of iron, but the man could not find anything. The Prophet asked him whether he memorized anything of the Qur'an, the man said he knew several surahs. The Prophet allowed the marriage to go through on the condition that the man would teach his wife the parts of the Qur'an he knew.
Another story from the time of the Prophet, which has been reported by Anas, says that Abu Talhah made a proposal to marry a woman called Umm Sulaim.
She said: "You are a man whom no woman would refuse,
but you are a non-Muslim while I am a Muslim.
It is not permissible for me to many you.
If you were to become a Muslim, I will accept that as my dower and I ask you for nothing else."
He declared that he has accepted the religion of Islam. That was the dower he gave to his wife.
All these hadiths show that it is permissible to give a small amount of money as a dower or even to pay it in the form of rendering a service, such as teaching one's wife some parts of the Qur' an.
but again - it seems all down to situation
The first opinion states that exorbitant dowers are permissible. An evidence for this view is the following verse of the Qur'an, "If you have given one of them a great amount (qintaar), do not take any of it back" (4:20).
While commenting on this verse, Ibn Katheer stated, "In this verse there is an indication that it is allowed to give a great deal of wealth as a dower." Al-Qurtubi said in his commentary, "This verse is evidence that it is allowed to be exorbitant in dowers as Allah does not give as an example except what is permissible."
In a public address, Umar stated, "Listen! Do not become exorbitant when it comes to the dowers of women. Verily, if such a thing were noble in this world or an act of obedience to Allah, the first one to demand such would be the Prophet [peace be upon him (PBUH)].
However, the Prophet (PBUH) never gave in dower to his wives or asked for dower for his daughters anything in excess of twelve auqiyah." A woman stood up to him and said, "O Umar, Allah has give us and you forbid us. Didn't Allah say in the Qur'an, "If you have given one of them a great amount (qintar), do not take any of it back'(4:20)?" Then Umar said, "A woman is correct and Umar is mistaken." Then he stopped his prohibiting them.
The dower, according to the Shari'ah, is a gift and offering. Thus, it has no prescribed limit. People differ with respect to being rich or poor. So the Shari'ah has left everyone to set its limit according to their ability."
The Second Opinion:
The second opinion is that it is not allowed to have exorbitant dowers. The followers of this view reply to the verse that was used as evidence by the people of the first opinion by saying that the verse is irrelevant to this issue for the following reasons:
First, the example of a qintaar (a large amount of wealth) is only an exaggerated method to stress the point that even if one had given them a great deal of wealth, he cannot take back any portion of it. It is similar in vein to the Prophet's (PBUH) statement, "For whoever builds a mosque for the sake of Allah the size of a grouse's nest, Allah will build for him a house in Paradise." But there cannot be a mosque the size of a grouse's nest." (Ibn Majah)
Second, it is not necessary that when one thing is stated as a conditional aspect for something else that the first thing is in itself permissible. Allah's saying, "You had given them," does not indicate that it is permissible to give such an amount. It is like the Prophet's statement, "If someone has a relative killed, he has two choices: either he can be paid the blood money or he may exact retribution." (Bukhari)
Furthermore, the most that one can say about this verse is that it allows the one who has the ability to pay a large dower to pay such a dower. However, it does not mean that the one who does not have such ability may be forced to pay that amount.
This is indicated by the Prophet (PBUH) objecting to Abu Hadrad al-Aslami when he came to the Prophet (PBUH) to seek assistance in paying the dower of his wife. The Messenger of Allah (PBUH) asked him, "What is the amount of her dower?" He said, "Two hundred dirhams." The Prophet (PBUH) then said, "If you were to dig out (the silver) in the valley of Bathaan, you would not exceed that amount." Recorded by al-Hakim who said that its chain is sahih although al-Bukahri and Muslim did not record it. Al-Dhahabi concurred with his assessment.
He also objected to the woman from the Ansar who got married with the dower being four awaaq (of silver) as that was not appropriate for her situation. Muslim recorded in his Sahih from Abu Hurairah who said: "A man came to the Messenger of Allah (PBUH) and said, "I am getting married to a woman from the Ansar". The Prophet (PBUH) said to him, "Have you taken a look at her for in the eyes of the Ansar there is something (unpleasant for those not used to it)?" He said, "I have taken a look at her". He (PBUH) then said, "What was the amount (of the dower) for the marriage?" He replied, "Four uqiyas." The Prophet (PBUH) then said to him, "With four uqiyas? It is as if you dig out silver from the side of this mountain (and that is how you plan on paying this great amount). We do not have anything we can give you. However, we may send you on a military expedition and you may end up getting something (that is, some booty)." The Prophet (PBUH) sent an expedition to Banu Abs and he sent that man along with them.
Al-Nawawi wrote in his commentary to Sahih Muslim, "The meaning of those words is the disapproval of increasing the dower relative to the situation of the husband."
and also show the future husband that they ain't free and require effort.
but personally i think it's a bit inconsiderate, as it makes life more of a struggle for them both - and when they end up taking out a haram bank loan to fund it - the blessing is not there.
my friend who lives a few floors above me got married last year, they spent some 20-30k on a lavish wedding, diamonds, gold etc,
he was reluctant and would always come to me for advice since he knew i study a lot and practice what i can,
i told him to say he couldn't and if she was the right person for him, she would be understanding - otherwise it's not worth it from the start,
however his mum made him and his dad sort it, he took out a big bank loan etc and got married,
for the first few weeks she told him she was unwell and couldn't uhuuum,
slowly i noticed some sort of friction, and she would spend as much time as possible at her parents and he was always angry and frustrated,
then after a couple of months they broke up,
it turned out that she couldn't uhuum - because she was a hermaphrodite.
she had just hoped that since he'd stuck by her and told her he loved her, he'd slowly just come to terms with it and accept it, and they'd live happily ever after.
but she didn't tell him anything about herself, and nor did her parents tell his parents,
sad,
he was sooooo depressed, and when he was angry at her deceit and told her he couldn't stay married to her - she took off with all the gold and diamonds etc,
i couldn't understand her family's demand for the lavish wedding, but i guess it must've been to tie him in.
well thats 30k "well spent",
i had even sat with him before the wedding googling and giving him hadiths of the Prophet regarding reasonable weddings, and the fact that he was taking out a haraam bank loan would mean there's no blessing on Allah's part and he agreed with me but couldn't get the women to budge,
A dower can be a very little amount. At the time of the Prophet, a woman accepted a pair of shoes as her dower. The Prophet asked her whether it was her decision and whether she accepts. She answered in the affirmative and he endorsed the marriage. Another woman came to the Prophet and declared that she makes a gift of herself to the Prophet. A man asked him to marry her to him. The Prophet asked him whether he had anything to give her by-way of dower. The man said that he had nothing except his dress. The Prophet said that if he were to give her his dress, he would have nothing to wear. The man tried to fund something to give her but could come up with nothing. The Prophet said try to send even a ring of iron, but the man could not find anything. The Prophet asked him whether he memorized anything of the Qur'an, the man said he knew several surahs. The Prophet allowed the marriage to go through on the condition that the man would teach his wife the parts of the Qur'an he knew.
Another story from the time of the Prophet, which has been reported by Anas, says that Abu Talhah made a proposal to marry a woman called Umm Sulaim.
She said: "You are a man whom no woman would refuse,
but you are a non-Muslim while I am a Muslim.
It is not permissible for me to many you.
If you were to become a Muslim, I will accept that as my dower and I ask you for nothing else."
He declared that he has accepted the religion of Islam. That was the dower he gave to his wife.
All these hadiths show that it is permissible to give a small amount of money as a dower or even to pay it in the form of rendering a service, such as teaching one's wife some parts of the Qur' an.
but again - it seems all down to situation
The first opinion states that exorbitant dowers are permissible. An evidence for this view is the following verse of the Qur'an, "If you have given one of them a great amount (qintaar), do not take any of it back" (4:20).
While commenting on this verse, Ibn Katheer stated, "In this verse there is an indication that it is allowed to give a great deal of wealth as a dower." Al-Qurtubi said in his commentary, "This verse is evidence that it is allowed to be exorbitant in dowers as Allah does not give as an example except what is permissible."
In a public address, Umar stated, "Listen! Do not become exorbitant when it comes to the dowers of women. Verily, if such a thing were noble in this world or an act of obedience to Allah, the first one to demand such would be the Prophet [peace be upon him (PBUH)].
However, the Prophet (PBUH) never gave in dower to his wives or asked for dower for his daughters anything in excess of twelve auqiyah." A woman stood up to him and said, "O Umar, Allah has give us and you forbid us. Didn't Allah say in the Qur'an, "If you have given one of them a great amount (qintar), do not take any of it back'(4:20)?" Then Umar said, "A woman is correct and Umar is mistaken." Then he stopped his prohibiting them.
The dower, according to the Shari'ah, is a gift and offering. Thus, it has no prescribed limit. People differ with respect to being rich or poor. So the Shari'ah has left everyone to set its limit according to their ability."
The Second Opinion:
The second opinion is that it is not allowed to have exorbitant dowers. The followers of this view reply to the verse that was used as evidence by the people of the first opinion by saying that the verse is irrelevant to this issue for the following reasons:
First, the example of a qintaar (a large amount of wealth) is only an exaggerated method to stress the point that even if one had given them a great deal of wealth, he cannot take back any portion of it. It is similar in vein to the Prophet's (PBUH) statement, "For whoever builds a mosque for the sake of Allah the size of a grouse's nest, Allah will build for him a house in Paradise." But there cannot be a mosque the size of a grouse's nest." (Ibn Majah)
Second, it is not necessary that when one thing is stated as a conditional aspect for something else that the first thing is in itself permissible. Allah's saying, "You had given them," does not indicate that it is permissible to give such an amount. It is like the Prophet's statement, "If someone has a relative killed, he has two choices: either he can be paid the blood money or he may exact retribution." (Bukhari)
Furthermore, the most that one can say about this verse is that it allows the one who has the ability to pay a large dower to pay such a dower. However, it does not mean that the one who does not have such ability may be forced to pay that amount.
This is indicated by the Prophet (PBUH) objecting to Abu Hadrad al-Aslami when he came to the Prophet (PBUH) to seek assistance in paying the dower of his wife. The Messenger of Allah (PBUH) asked him, "What is the amount of her dower?" He said, "Two hundred dirhams." The Prophet (PBUH) then said, "If you were to dig out (the silver) in the valley of Bathaan, you would not exceed that amount." Recorded by al-Hakim who said that its chain is sahih although al-Bukahri and Muslim did not record it. Al-Dhahabi concurred with his assessment.
He also objected to the woman from the Ansar who got married with the dower being four awaaq (of silver) as that was not appropriate for her situation. Muslim recorded in his Sahih from Abu Hurairah who said: "A man came to the Messenger of Allah (PBUH) and said, "I am getting married to a woman from the Ansar". The Prophet (PBUH) said to him, "Have you taken a look at her for in the eyes of the Ansar there is something (unpleasant for those not used to it)?" He said, "I have taken a look at her". He (PBUH) then said, "What was the amount (of the dower) for the marriage?" He replied, "Four uqiyas." The Prophet (PBUH) then said to him, "With four uqiyas? It is as if you dig out silver from the side of this mountain (and that is how you plan on paying this great amount). We do not have anything we can give you. However, we may send you on a military expedition and you may end up getting something (that is, some booty)." The Prophet (PBUH) sent an expedition to Banu Abs and he sent that man along with them.
Al-Nawawi wrote in his commentary to Sahih Muslim, "The meaning of those words is the disapproval of increasing the dower relative to the situation of the husband."
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