Do I have to have my male children circumcised?

[جوري]

Says who?

Just because something is not mainstream does not affect whether it is correct or not.

Says Doctors and Religious scholars and the consensus in Islam is that Allah swt is with the majority!

 

[primate]

As'Salaam Alaaykum

You are right, there is indeed a big difference between maintenance and alteration..But the case of alteration isnt being talked about..

I know of cases with individuals with a nose which is slightly bent, due to this, they could not breath and a few other medical issues, so they had to get surgery performed, but if the person didnt have any problems, but changed the state of his nose for the sake of beautification, that would be classified as 'alteration'..which i believe is unnacceptable.

You are also correct, it doesnt matter to you what we or anyone thinks, what matters is what Allaah thinks, at the end of the day its the opinion of Allaah. Thats why we as muslims should refrain from posting up information which we have no knowledge of, or our own opinions or mis-interpret Qur'aanic ayahs. etc..

Thanks for the insightful reply.

All I can say is that there are 3 reasons why I disagree with male circumcision

- Allah (swt) disagrees with it (of course, this is the only reason one should need)
- Medical science disagrees with it
- My instinct of naturality disagrees with it

Now when Allah (swt), science and my own instinct all agree on the same thing.. then I am going to follow that. I pray that this is the right choice, mash'Allah.

 

[جوري]

Thanks for the insightful reply.

All I can say is that there are 3 reasons why I disagree with male circumcision

- Allah (swt) disagrees with it (of course, this is the only reason one should need)
- Medical science disagrees with it
- My instinct of naturality disagrees with it

Now when Allah (swt), science and my own instinct all agree on the same thing.. then I am going to follow that. I pray that this is the right choice, mash'Allah.

Again, neither God nor science disagree with circumcision see previous referenced posts on the subject if either of what you suggest were true people would be circumcising their kids it in some shady back alley than by physicians in a hospital setting!the third is your own opinion and you're certainly welcome to it.

best,

 

[Ğħαrєєвαħ]

Thanks for the insightful reply.

All I can say is that there are 3 reasons why I disagree with male circumcision

- Allah (swt) disagrees with it (of course, this is the only reason one should need)
- Medical science disagrees with it
- My instinct of naturality disagrees with it

Now when Allah (swt), science and my own instinct all agree on the same thing.. then I am going to follow that. I pray that this is the right choice, mash'Allah.

As'Salaam Alaaykum

Where does it state Allaah disagree's with one having surgery performed on his nose due to medical reasons?

I know i may be going a lil overboard, but What about individuals born with learning difficulties? those visually impaired, etc Does that mean we should leave them alone? or should it mean we provide support for them, as there has been provided much support.. as they are all also a creation of Allaah - The most wise.

Do you have proof that Allaah SWT disagree's with this circumcision, which is essentially known as a form of purification?

 

[primate]

Again, neither God nor science disagree with circumcision see previous referenced posts on the subject if either of what you suggest were true people would be circumcising their kids it in some shady back alley than by physicians in a hospital setting!the third is your own opinion and you're certainly welcome to it.

best,

God (swt) disagrees with circumcision:

"You will not see any flaw in what the Lord of Mercy creates." (Qur'an 67:3)
Medical science disagrees with circumcision:

(See the wikipedia page entitled "medical analysis of circumcision, it's a huge list of immediate and delayed complications and issues relating to circumcision)

You can see the truth in front of you.. just because mainstream Islam tells you something different doesn't give you an excuse to be ignorant..

Allah (swt) created the perfect girl with her clitoris and the perfect boy with his frenulum so that both can enjoy the full blessing of sexual activity and orgasms.. how can you not see this..

 

[aadil77]

There is a big difference between maintenance and alteration.

The Qur'an clearly states that Allah (swt) made humans perfect.

If you say that a circumcised penis is better than a natural one, you are blaspheming as you are saying that a human has improved upon Allah's (swt) creation.

You can call it "deviancy" all you want, you can insult me all you want, maybe I am not welcome on this website, it doesn't make a difference to me. I follow Islam in my heart, it matters not to me what you think, and I pray to Allah (swt) that I make the right decision in keeping my children intact and natural as Allah (swt) created.

I have no intention to insult you, rather make you rethink your decision. You're again misinterpreting that Qur'an verse.

Is it not enough for you if Allah Himself gives revelation through the form of prophets telling mankind to circumcise themselves?

Do you not believe that prophets are messengers from God and only speak from divine inspiration/revelation? They do not create their own laws

No one is born intact, everyone is born with umbilical cords attached their mothers which have to be cut off in order for you to function properly, same way foreskin has to cut off.

Islam is a religion of cleanliness, we cut our nails because long nails trap dirt, we shave our pubes because they trap dirt, same way foreskins are cut off because they trap dirt. If you don't do it now, it'll be more difficult for your kids to get it done later on.

 

[primate]

As'Salaam Alaaykum

Where does it state Allaah disagree's with one having surgery performed on his nose due to medical reasons?

I know i may be going a lil overboard, but What about individuals born with learning difficulties? those visually impaired, etc Does that mean we should leave them alone? or should it mean we provide support for them, as there has been provided much support..

Do you have proof that Allaah SWT disagree's with this circumcision, which is essentially known as a form of purification?

I didn't say that about the nose surgery..

Indeed, thank you for bringing up that example. Because the whole point in that nose surgery would be to return the person with the illness/disability to their normal, natural self, the way Allah (swt) created them. E.g. if a baby is born with an arm which sticks out the wrong way, then mash'Allah surgery can and should be performed so that the baby can live a normal life in the way Allah (swt) created the normal human being.

Circumcision is the opposite of this.. it is the equivalent of taking a healthy baby and chopping off its arm.. it is changing the human body from something that is natural and created by Allah (swt) to something which is not natural and is artificial

 

[جوري]

God (swt) disagrees with circumcision:

"You will not see any flaw in what the Lord of Mercy creates." (Qur'an 67:3)
Medical science disagrees with circumcision:

That IS NOT evidence against circumcision in the least. Surely if we subscribe to your logic we'd never cut our nails, groom our hair, take out our appendix when infected. Try to read the Quran in context and not loan it your own renditions!

See the wikipedia page entitled "medical analysis of circumcision, it's a huge list of immediate and delayed complications and issues relating to circumcision)

I have just quoted you an article by a doctor from webMD contrary to what you have quoted completely rebuts it -- if you're still not convinced then there is nothing we can do to help you!

You can see the truth in front of you.. just because mainstream Islam tells you something different doesn't give you an excuse to be ignorant..

Ignorance here is an adequate assessment of your own person you haven't so much as given folks the courtesy of reading the articles they've referenced for you in favor of your own personal convictions and in spite of overwhelming evidence to the contrary!

Allah (swt) created the perfect girl with her clitoris and the perfect boy with his frenulum so that both can enjoy the full blessing of sexual activity and orgasms.. how can you not see this..

Did you read the article I referenced above calling the hadith on female circumcision weak and forbidding it?

This is a third strike for you not only because you persist in folly but you because you don't even bother read what's posted which might on some level have agreed with one of your views..

You assume, you project, you misconstrue and you persist in folly and then threaten to leave?
This frankly isn't the demeanor of a Muslim-- least of which one who is at a stage of learning!

best

 

[primate]

Is it not enough for you if Allah Himself gives revelation through the form of prophets telling mankind to circumcise themselves?

Let me remind you that Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) also recommended female genital mutilation, but I don't suppose you defend that?

I put FGM and MGM all into the same basket.. they are clearly not what Allah (swt) wants us to do, and I repeat:

"You will not see any flaw in what the Lord of Mercy creates." (Qur'an 67:3)

I can guarantee you that you do not perfectly emulate the life or actions of Prophet Muhammed (pbuh), and you do not follow every single thing prescribed in the Sunnah. I don't want to get into an argument about how the Qur'an takes complete priority over the Sunnah..

 

[جوري]

Let me remind you that Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) also recommended female genital mutilation, but I don't suppose you defend that?

Did you read post number 32?
With regard to the issue at hand, it's been agreed that female gential mutilation, or what Br. Kadafi pointed out to be Pharaonic circumcision, is unlawful and has no basis in Islam. Indeed, this is a terrible practice. The difference of opinion only exists with regard to a mild form of female circumcision, which many scholars believe to be voluntary (sunnah).

Scholars have either said it is preferable to do it, or they have said it is preferable to avoid it. What Islam does teach us is that causing harm and suffering to others is forbidden. The most balanced and agreed upon view with regard to female circumcision is as mentioned by the IslamToday Fatwa committee:

Since the hadîth is weak to begin with, and since most people really do not know how to practice circumcision correctly, female circumcision should be avoided. (See here (Female Circumcision) (Female Circumcision) for complete Fatwa.)​

I hope this helps, and I hope the discussion will proceed in a manner befitting of muslims.



I am really starting to think you're just a troll!

 

[aadil77]

Let me remind you that Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) also recommended female genital mutilation, but I don't suppose you defend that?

I put FGM and MGM all into the same basket.. they are clearly not what Allah (swt) wants us to do, and I repeat:

"You will not see any flaw in what the Lord of Mercy creates." (Qur'an 67:3)

I can guarantee you that you do not perfectly emulate the life or actions of Prophet Muhammed (pbuh), and you do not follow every single thing prescribed in the Sunnah. I don't want to get into an argument about how the Qur'an takes complete priority over the Sunnah..

That is completely false, the prophet never recommended 'FGM'. Why are you ignoring my other statements?

 

[primate]

am really starting to think you're just a troll!

If you think that then I won't waste my time on you any further until you apologise.

I am happy with Islamic debate but when you personally insult me I draw the line. Learn some respect

 

[جوري]

That is completely false, the prophet never recommended 'FGM'. Why are you ignoring my other statements?

Three strikes are out in my judgment by now. It is very clear from the unraveling of this thread who this person is!

 

[جوري]

If you think that then I won't waste my time on you any further until you apologise.

I am happy with Islamic debate but when you personally insult me I draw the line. Learn some respect

I have listed the reasons as to why you're a troll, perhaps they fell on your blind spot & I see you purposefully omit things that either embarrass you, rebut you or expose you? but they are there for everyone else to see!

I owe no apologies where a statement of accuracy has been made!

besst

 

[primate]

That is completely false, the prophet never recommended 'FGM'

Muhammed (pbuh) said: "Circumcision is a law for men and a preservation of honour for women."


I won't address the other poster until she apologies for the personal insult she made.

 

[جوري]

Muhammed (pbuh) said: "Circumcision is a law for men and a preservation of honour for women."


I won't address the other poster until she apologies for the personal insult she made.

It is an insult in fact to be addressed by a troll, but again we clarify for others:
With regard to the issue at hand, it's been agreed that female gential mutilation, or what Br. Kadafi pointed out to be Pharaonic circumcision, is unlawful and has no basis in Islam. Indeed, this is a terrible practice. The difference of opinion only exists with regard to a mild form of female circumcision, which many scholars believe to be voluntary (sunnah).

you already misconstrue the Quran, and science so it is no surprise that you have no understanding of sunnah!

 

[جوري]

we should at this stage report the troll to a mod to deal with it. All that needed clarification and explanation has been made crystal anything beyond this would really qualify as Jaddal with the ignorant-- in fact ignorance with malice to distort the Quran and Sunnah and science as we know it.

 

[primate]

It is an insult in fact to be addressed by a troll, but again we clarify for others:
With regard to the issue at hand, it's been agreed that female gential mutilation, or what Br. Kadafi pointed out to be Pharaonic circumcision, is unlawful and has no basis in Islam. Indeed, this is a terrible practice. The difference of opinion only exists with regard to a mild form of female circumcision, which many scholars believe to be voluntary (sunnah).

you already misconstrue the Quran, and science so it is no surprise that you have no understanding of sunnah!

Yes masha'Allah, FGM has been denounced as a terrible practice, thankfully (even though it was put forward in the Sunnah). One can only hope that MGM is soon also denounced as a terrible practice (even though that too has been put forward in the Sunnah). Only then will Muslim males be able to live truly in the body that is natural and that Allah (swt) created perfectly.

 

[Ğħαrєєвαħ]

I didn't say that about the nose surgery..

Indeed, thank you for bringing up that example. Because the whole point in that nose surgery would be to return the person with the illness/disability to their normal, natural self, the way Allah (swt) created them. E.g. if a baby is born with an arm which sticks out the wrong way, then mash'Allah surgery can and should be performed so that the baby can live a normal life in the way Allah (swt) created the normal human being.

Circumcision is the opposite of this.. it is the equivalent of taking a healthy baby and chopping off its arm.. it is changing the human body from something that is natural and created by Allah (swt) to something which is not natural and is artificial

As'Salaam Alaaykum

I didnt say you did say anything about nose surgery, i was trying to make a point, that when one is in the condition of need, Allaah doesnt burden him, rather it is something adviced to do. for example, when falls down, another should help them to stand up..

Circumcision also brings one to the state of natural self which is purification, worshipping Allaah purified.

Is it opposite? If a disease or illness if not treated, not cause danger or harm to oneself? If one is not clean, his salah is not accepted. How is it that circumcision makes one artificial? You do know there have been cases where babies have been born with problems, one would bring the baby back to natural state by treating the baby, by the will of Allaah the baby is cured. So what the prophets (pbut) did was artificial?

AstagfiruAllaah - May Allaah forgive me.

 

[primate]

Sadly I predicted this would happen back on page 2:

This thread is pointless anyway, I think. Maybe it should all be deleted. I don't want my first post on this forum to be hostile and contentious imsad

Insha'Allah the poster will calm down and stop with the insults.. it is sad that some people get angry over Islamic debate, but I have came across many people like that and they just have to be ignored I guess..