Frustrations in getting married

[Asiyah3]

and someone who hates shopping;D

Sorry, every woman loves shopping and especially buying.

But hey, you can always dream!

 

[noorseeker]

Sorry, every woman loves shopping and especially buying.

But hey, you can always dream!

I like recieving ;D

 

[SFatima]

The women in my family are just as worse. I don't blame the Pakistanis in Pakistan as such, because the girls and families here are pretty bad too. It's the women in my culture, both in Pakistan and abroad, weddings can never be simple. For some inexplicable reason they've created a system where you have to try and outdo all previous weddings in terms of extravagance.

The men try to speak out and explain why this is not good, but their wives accuse them of being like Scrooge or very stingy.

It sounds sexist, but it's the truth, the women are the selfish money wasters and the men just go along to avoid weeks and possibly months even years of headaches about how awful their wedding is.

I can understand why many brothers are put off marriage.

You're right about the observation, but why blame women so much when men end up choosing the same kind of women as their life partners, over and over again? Like you have mentioned about yourself as well. It takes some strength to choose to be upright and it takes courage to stand up for what you believe in, I completely refuse to attend, participate and celebrate in such extravagant lavish display of wealth, and i have made it clear to my parents that there will be no such nonsense on my wedding. ( And thats another story that most families also don't look forward to form a relationship with ours, because of these things, they're all like " na jee, we love our son, we want to celebrate, and we want people who want to celebrate, hence celebration , wealth and 'equality' in status and way of life' is their criteria for marrying off their sons and daughters).

If one seeks a practising muslimah, one has to try to be a practising muslim oneself. You'll hardly find cultural and traditional people having the courage to say no to social norms( no matter how absurd) it is only the practising religious people who try to stay away from such vain expenses , along with some sensible educated people who can see the whole " superficial show of wealth" behind all this culturalism. Women indulge in these things more so when they see more men opting to marry women who dress up all nice, wear all that amazing jewellery and exhibit their beauties.

Men have a large part in this too, women compete to please men, whether its for marriage or to just establish their social position in the society. Go ask any aunti, even the most religious of men with beards have a demand of a girl who is " absolutely beautiful, dresses up nice, looks a super model, is super thin and White : p, if they opted for simple looking nice girls who were not as competitively dolled up like their other counterparts, most women would be fine just the way they looked. And , hence not spend so much on show off.

I am not absolving women of their part but i strongly feel that women are very flexible and adapt to the social trends BEcause they see their men inclined heavily towards them too. If a man is religious, his wife will also try to please him by following the religion, if he isn't, she will try as much as she can, to be the social butterfly and the eye candy that he wants her to be seen as, socially.

 

[ardianto]

It is difficult for brothers to marry if they are ugly, no?

Many people who regard themselves ugly actualy are not ugly, even some of them are actually handsome or beautiful.

When I was teenager I always regard myself as an ugly person, because girls always mocked me as "the fatty". It made me had low confidence and bad inferior feeling. Sometime I told my friends I will not marry in the future because no woman would accept an ugly person like me.

But sometime my friends told me, I am absolutely not ugly, just fat, and I never care on my appearance. Later in last of my teenage period, when I was in the last year in high school, I began to do diet to reduce my weight, and improved my appearance. I learned how to dressed well. I learned about body care, such cleanliness and set my hair. I learned about etiquette. And the most important was, I tried to convince myself if I am not ugly. I got many help to learn these from my brother, my sisters, my auntie, also my friends.

The result was not bad. Like I have written in another thread, my problem in love matter was not 'how to get a girl', but 'how to avoid those girls'. Frankly, I was surprised when girls tried to approach me. But Alhamdulillah, I didn't tempted to seize this opportunity. And this is the proof, an ugly guy could be attractive guy if he could improve himself.

Okay, now about question, is it difficult for brothers to marry if they are ugly ?. The answer, if they still regard themselves as ugly people they will never marry because they don't have confidence to propose marriage. But if they realized, actually they are equal with many people, inshaAllah they will marry, because they have confidence to propose marriage to a woman.

People say women are attracted to handsomeness. That's true, but only immature women who then impresed by handsomeness and regard handsomeness as everything. Mature women attracted to handsomeness only in one moment, in the next moment they begin to notice character and personality. And when mature women meet men who not physically handsome they will directly notice to character and personality.

For mature women, the man's main attraction is character & personality, not handsomeness. That's why in page 6 I threw a question "Is physical beauty the only attraction for woman and for man ?".

So, brothers. You don't need to worry to looking for a wife even if you are not physicaly handsome.

And let me give advices for brothers who still regard themselves as ugly person.

Stop regard yourself as ugly guy, and start to realize you are equal with many other people. If you believe you are ugly, you will look ugly, but if you realize you are not ugly, you will look better. What you believe inside will reflected outside. Look at the mirror and compare what you see when you are in bad mood and when you are in good mood.

Don't underestimate yourself. Always believe you are worthy to live among the people and you are worthy to have a life-partner.

Improve your appearance. Always dressed clean and neatly. You don't need to buy expensive clothes, cheap clothes are enough as long as matched to you. People will respect those who care to appearance better than those who don't care to appearance.

And the most important is, have good manner and etiquette. It will makes you have impressive character and personality. Remember, mature woman are impressed to character and personality, not handsomeness.

 

[Salahudeen]

As'Salaam Alaaykum

I never stated you should not study. I meant that if you want to get married, these may well be a few options..like i said many will not agree..and im no expert.






There was indeed a time, and there still is a time..where you can find a women who doesnt care about money and all and men who dont either..though it may be rare.

Im not looking nor i do believe any sis i know is look for for a 50k wedding or to be treated like a complete 'Queen' meaning all rich and what not, this is ridiculous. Its just that this is the west or the change of mindsets or love for dunya, Allaah knows, so many dont understand this, its called living a 'simple' life which is a perfect life. The 'has to have a job to provide' argument is something essential in today's world, i dont think any parent will let their daughter marry someone who is jobless. There will be some criteria's you will have to meet whether you like it or not. Ofcourse deen is a priority, but i think these are 2 things that seem to be important today.

If state benefits means you will be aiming to find a job soon enough and not live on benefits your whole life then so be it..This life is short, no need of luxury, simple life is luxurious enough alhamdulilaah.

I hope that Allaah grant you a pious wife who meets your needs Aameen

I apologise if ive said anything wrong, correct me if so.



Wa Alaaykum As'Salaam

I agree.. Aameen to the du'aa..may Allaah grant you a pious husband Aameen.

I don't see why it's essential for him to have a job, I'd happily marry my daughter off to a pious man who is on benefits, why wouldn't you? You're searching for piety after all right? not money. And if pious guy comes who's looking for a job and is on benefits then why not, as long as he understands his benefit money has to go towards providing for his family I don't see any problem. So can you explain why a pious guy on benefits is no good?? He can still provide for his family right? so what's wrong with him?

I know what will change your mind about this, go look round and mix with the youth in schools/colleges find out what goes on in the toilets and behind the sheds in the play ground, go and look at all the muslim men fornicating with kaffira women, go and look in the school toilets and see all the muslim kids fornicating with one another, go look at how many Muslim women get pregnant outside marriage and have abortions and then come back and tell me you think it's better they do that instead of get married to a pious man and live off benefits.

I'd rather my daughter gets married to a guy on benefits than falls into zina, and many of those people who's daughters/sons who fell into zina said the same thing, "you need to marry someone with top job who can provide for you, you don't want that loser guy over there with beard who prays all day, you want a guy with a good job who can take you on holidays every year" then what happens? quite often because they delayed their childs marriage in search for the dream partner, their child falls into sin.

Go and read the advice and support section of this forum and look at all the people posting about haraam relationships they fell into, go and ask them why they fell into the haraam relationships, they'll tell you "My mum and dad didn't want me to get married till a guy with a good job came along so I had to wait and while I was waiting I fell for this other guy who I really love but I don't think my family will let me marry him because he doesn't have a good job" lol.

I mean we've made the criteria for marriage how good a job the man has, which makes me feel sick, it's not about preventing your kids from falling into sinful acts anymore, if that was the case we'd get our kids married off at 18 and tell them it's ok the live off benefits, be patient untill time gets easier, this is better for you than being single and possibly falling into zina.

nooooo now we say, you can't get married untill you have a good job so you can provide a life of luxory for your wife, and to the women we're saying, you should find a man who has a top job so he can provide a great quality of life for you.

And the poor guy with a long beard who follows the sunnah and wears his trousers above his ankles and because of this no one wants to employ him cos they think he's a terrorist is left alone wondering why no women wants to marry him.

While the clean shaven guy who's probably done all sorts and doesn't give a toss about the sunnah and goes drinking with his kafir work mates lands the bride cos her parents didnt want her to marry "a loser with a beard who prays all day long" What a twisted world we've come to live in. imsad

Living off benefits is down to your own ethics and the ethics of your wife-to-be's family - they might not see it as a respectable way of earning a living. Personally if I had daughters I wouldn't marry them off to men depending on state benefits. But it is possible if you show commitment that you're working hard to find work.

Ok well what will these families who don't see it as a respectful way of living do if unemployment continues to rise and there's no jobs for the majority of the population? In these times even non muslims are finding it hard to get jobs never mind Muslims upon sunnah so what is the solution for all those Muslim men who can't find jobs through no fault of their own? What if we reached a situation where unemployment went so high that there was only enough jobs for 40-50% of the population and the rest had to live off benefits, would Muslims stop getting married then because the requirement of "has to have a job to support" can't be met by the majority of Muslim men?

I just feel like it's no longer about protecting your children from sin it's about getting the guy who can offer the best quality of life in the duniya and if they have to risk their children falling into sin to get that then so be it, this is the feeling I get from lot of people

also as unemployment rates continue to rise the chances of finding that guy with the job decreases, so you may well keep your daughter sitting on the shelve untill she's 30 waiting for a pious guy with a job, I think it's better if you find a pious guy on benefits then give her hand providing you get to know him first and see what type of person he is. We have to be realistic women are sitting around till their 30s waiting for the pious guy with good job and rejecting pious men on state benefits, there has to be a compromise somewhere.

I mean even a guy on state benefits can provide a good quality of life compared to that of the sahabba (RA), right? So if women want a man like the prophet (saw) then they should be prepared to make sacrifices like the wives of the prophet (saw) and sahabba. There was periods when they would go hungry and tie stones to their stomachs, no one told them cos of this they shouldn't be married cos they can't provide for their wife.

I'd be interested, which woman today would marry a man who could offer her a little hut with out a proper bed, and the only food is dates every day? If a pious man came who was like the prophet (saw) would women today accept this? Because all of this and more can be offered on state benefits.

You see it's about how big your house is and whether you can provide her with her own kitchen and car that matters now days. If you can provide a shared kitchen and bathroom you've got no chance ;D it would be great if we we could transport them back in time to the time of the prophet (saw) then they will be grateful when they have to go into the bushes to do their business and find rocks to wipe themselves with and they have to survive on a few dates every day, and they have to sleep on a hard bed, then a guy on benefits who follows sunnah will be like a millionaire to them ;D

It's understandable that parents want an easy life for their daughters but at what cost?? is it really worth the risk of letting your child fall into sin?? making her wait till she's 30+ for the pious guy with a good job which is becoming more and more rare. Fair enough if you have the choice between two pious people, 1 with a job and the other hasn't you're obviously gonna chose the 1 with the job, but that's not the case now days, what we see now days is, guy who isn't pious with job, verses pious guy on benefits, and the guy with a job who isn't pious wins every time. Which tells me people are more concerned about this duniya than the akhira, because if they really cared about the akhira they'd pick the pious guy on benefits every time over the non pious guy.

These are just my views from what I've seen of the world, you're welcome to disagree. Living off benefits is respectful I think when you're trying to find a job, but if you're living off them cos you can't be bothered to work then it isn't. Check this article out.

"Muslims are more than twice as likely to be unemployed than the national average (16.4 per cent, compared to 7.7 per cent). (The unemployment rate among black people is even higher, at 17.9 per cent.) Worryingly, unemployment is especially high among young Muslims under the age of 30 (23 per cent), which is again higher than the UK average for young people (17 per cent), although less than for young black people (29 per cent).

The jobless rate for the least educated young Muslims - those with no qualifications - is even higher, approaching 40 per cent. One encouraging sign is that a considerably higher proportion of young Muslims under the age of 25 are students than is the case for non-Muslims (36 per cent and 19 per cent, respectively).

It is important that public policy is designed to ensure that Muslims in general, and young Muslims in particular, do not become further marginalised. Joblessness would be much higher among Muslims without the labour-market measures implemented by the Labour government. A lost generation of young Muslims would be very bad indeed, for all of us."

Full article can be found here http://www.newstatesman.com/economy/2010/02/young-muslims-rate-labour


I really couldn't reject a pious brother on benefits because he can't get a job. Fair enough if jobs were easy to come by and there was more jobs than people, but the fact is, currently there is more people than jobs, so I don't see it as fair punishing someone because there's not enough jobs to go round. The supply is greater than the demand sadly and that isn't a person's fault, it doesn't mean he's lazy cos he's living off benefits it means there's not enough jobs to go around.

I think we need to move away from this misconception that a guy on benefits is a lazy bum who can't be bothered to work, I think this kind of mentality would only be justified if there was more jobs than people, but it's the other way round, there's more people than jobs so you're all ways going to have people on benefits through no fault of their own due to there not being enough jobs.

I recall hearing a news report last year, and they were saying even doctors who just finished studying at 26-27 were struggling to find employment in the current UK economy because the supply was greater than the demand so as a result they were claiming benefits, this is the times we live in. Even educated people in top fields can't get jobs and are claiming benefits.

So we as Muslims need to understand this and lower our standards and move with the times. We're the ummah of a man who slept on a hard bed every night, who lived off dates, who tied stones around his stomach to suppress his hunger, who wore clothes that were ripped and sewn back together, who went out into bushes to answer the call of nature and cleaned himself with rocks. So maybe we should lower our standards and be more like him instead of trying to be like the Persian emporia who slept on a nice soft bed every night and eat from many wonderful dishes and wore new clothes every day.

Sadly I think many women today would scoff at a pious man who offered them the life style that the companions offered their wifes, and would choose a non pious man who offered them the kind of life that the Persian emporia would offer. But as you know it's all been predicted in the hadith so I don't know why I'm going on this long rant, you can't beat prophecy.

Thauban reported that the messenger of Allah said: "It is near that the nations will call one another against you just as the eaters call one another to their dishes." Somebody asked: "Is this because we will be few in numbers that day?" He said: "Nay, but that day you shall be numerous, but you will be like the foam of the sea, and Allah will take the fear of you away from your enemies and will place weakness into your hearts." Somebody asked: "What is this weakness?" He said: "The love of the world and the dislike of death." (Abu Daud)

 

[إحسان]

Sorry, every woman loves shopping and especially buying.

But hey, you can always dream!

I must not be a woman yet - just a girl. Since I absolutely LOATHE shopping.
I like to dress prettily for myself but I don't see why some women shop nearly every month.... what's the point?

I'm still young to get married - I'm 16, so going through these pages have been informative and useful for the future. :statisfie
So thank you all... I actually got a proposal at the most awkward place ever - at the bus stop when I was coming home from the library, the brother (he looked Iraqi, around his mid 20s) mistook me as a Uni student. :embarrass

Anyway I wish you all the best in getting married! My two older sisters are also looking to get married, 24, 27 respectively, inshAllah they'll get married to a pious and sweet man, but I'll cry so much when they leave the family home.

May Allah grant all the Muslims in this world his/her perfect match and if not in this world then in Al Firdaws which I am beging Allah to have mercy on us and make us enter it without being reckoning...Ameeeeeeeeen

Ameen!

 

[Ğħαrєєвαħ]

As'Salaam Alaaykum

I don't see why it's essential for him to have a job, I'd happily marry my daughter off to a pious man who is on benefits, why wouldn't you? You're searching for piety after all right? not money. And if pious guy comes who's looking for a job and is on benefits then why not, as long as he understands his benefit money has to go towards providing for his family I don't see any problem.

To be honest, Im not even speaking for myself, its the requirements some parents have these days. I think everyone is searching for pious spouse. I would definetly have my daughter married of to someone pious and who is also financially stable, where she has a roof over her head atleast. A pious indivudal also has responsibilites.

The deen is what is to be made priority. I dont have an issue with a man who lived on benefits, so long as thats not a whole life routine, meaning Islamically man is provider, where is he providing if its always? I hope im not coming across as a negative.

I know what will change your mind about this, go look round and mix with the youth in schools/colleges find out what goes on in the toilets and behind the sheds in the play ground, go and look at all the muslim men fornicating with kaffira women, go and look in the school toilets and see all the muslim kids fornicating with one another, go look at how many Muslim women get pregnant outside marriage and have abortions and then come back and tell me you think it's better they do that instead of get married to a pious man and live off benefits.

I dont need to do that, because i never said living on benefits is a bad thing..as i mentioned above. And please cut down on the generalisation dear brother, there are brothers and sisters out there who are not married and are on the safe side i.e looking to get married etc etc, so not everyone is like how you mentioned in the quote.

jazakallaahu Khaayr.

I'd rather my daughter gets married to a guy on benefits than falls into zina, and many of those people who's daughters/sons who fell into zina said the same thing, "you need to marry someone with top job who can provide for you, you don't want that loser guy over there with beard who prays all day, you want a guy with a good job who can take you on holidays every year" then what happens? quite often because they delayed their childs marriage in search for the dream partner, their child falls into sin.

yes i agree. But as long as its not forever. I didnt mention anything such as 'top' job did i? If i did, its because thats some parents requirements. There will be people who will never accept you, same way you wont accept them for reasons. may Allaah guide the ummah and keep them on the straight path, Aameen.

Go and read the advice and support section of this forum and look at all the people posting about haraam relationships they fell into, go and ask them why they fell into the haraam relationships, they'll tell you "My mum and dad didn't want me to get married till a guy with a good job came along so I had to wait and while I was waiting I fell for this other guy who I really love but I don't think my family will let me marry him because he doesn't have a good job" lol.

Im fully aware of this. jazakallaahu Khaayr. Im saying this on behalf of parents, generally the parents i've come across want a man who has a job. But if you could explain this issue to any sister's parents, that you will be on benefits, and then explaining getting a job later, do you think anyone will accept you? If so that is good and I hope it goes well for you insha'Allaah.

I mean we've made the criteria for marriage how good a job the man has, which makes me feel sick, it's not about preventing your kids from falling into sinful acts anymore, if that was the case we'd get our kids married off at 18 and tell them it's ok the live off benefits, be patient untill time gets easier, this is better for you than being single and possibly falling into zina.

I dont know who this 'we' is..definetly not me included.

And the poor guy with a long beard who follows the sunnah and wears his trousers above his ankles and because of this no one wants to employ him cos they think he's a terrorist is left alone wondering why no women wants to marry him.

Because its wrong, and people need to be educated. Allaah place millions of humans on this earth, not all are un-educated.

I'd be interested, which woman today would marry a man who could offer her a little hut with out a proper bed, and the only food is dates every day? If a pious man came who was like the prophet (saw) would women today accept this?

inshaa'Allaah! One should be thankful he has a roof over his head and something to eat. You'd be suprised to know there are sisters as such.

 

[Banu_Hashim]

My time has not yet come to get married. Although I have a degree, I have to secure my career, get a good job first.

Bro! You already have a degree and a job?? What are you waiting for? If I were you I'd be looking to get married ASAP! Don't worry about career progression, you'll be doing that for the rest of your life inshaAllaah! Marriage will help you focus and give you some peace in your life inshaAllaah wa Allaahu 'Alam.

 

['Abd Al-Maajid]

Bro! You already have a degree and a job?? What are you waiting for? If I were you I'd be looking to get married ASAP! Don't worry about career progression, you'll be doing that for the rest of your life inshaAllaah! Marriage will help you focus and give you some peace in your life inshaAllaah wa Allaahu 'Alam.

Man, career progression! You got me! I have a job now, but i am looking to secure my career first, and get a good job with higher pay. Man's desires are never-ending... I can get married in a couple of months...it's just i am making things harder for myself...imsad

 

[Banu_Hashim]

Does this mean, we just carry on with our lives and hope someone sends us a proposal .

Lol, if you're a guy you're not gonna get far with that approach. Even if you have a good job, are pious, you still have to put yourself out there... somehow. Word of mouth is the best option in my opinion. Try your best and then put your trust in Allaah.

 

[Banu_Hashim]

I'm still young to get married - I'm 16, so going through these pages have been informative and useful for the future. :statisfie
So thank you all... I actually got a proposal at the most awkward place ever - at the bus stop when I was coming home from the library, the brother (he looked Iraqi, around his mid 20s) mistook me as a Uni student. :embarrass

[/COLOR]

You should have said "Uhhh.. no thanks! But I have a sister! In fact two of them... take your pick!"

 

[Salahudeen]

As'Salaam Alaaykum



To be honest, Im not even speaking for myself, its the requirements some parents have these days. I think everyone is searching for pious spouse. I would definetly have my daughter married of to someone pious and who is also financially stable, where she has a roof over her head atleast. A pious indivudal also has responsibilites.

The deen is what is to be made priority. I dont have an issue with a man who lived on benefits, so long as thats not a whole life routine, meaning Islamically man is provider, where is he providing if its always? I hope im not coming across as a negative.

I know you're not speaking for yourself, If you think everyone is searching for a pious spouse then you need to wake up and come out of your bubble, you see not everyone is searching for a pious spouse, when you reject the pious guy on benefits who can offer a standard quality of life and choose the non pious guy with a job who can offer a great quality of life, is that searching for a pious spouse? I think not.

Financially stable can be offered on benefits didn't you know that?? I don't get your point, all what you mentioned can be offered by a man on benefits regardless if he as a job or not. He is providing through the money he gets from his benefits, that's how he is providing. A man can even provide a roof over his wifes head on benefits did you not know that?? It's called "Housing benefit". He can provide food in the cupboards also on benefits, it's called JSA, I did a two week shop on JSA and filled the cupboards with food and had £10 left over, of course you won't be able to have life of luxury and have internet/sky TV/ call pakistan on weekends but you can have an ok life. Ok, you see that money that he gets from benefits, that is his money, that he has been given, now he can do whatever he wants with it, he can go out and gamble it all away if he wants, OR he can choose to provide for his family with it, if he provides for his family with it then he is doing his islamic duty right? which is to provide for his family.

Again why do you insist that a man needs a job to provide for his family in England after all of the above? Can you explain please? You said a man needs a job to provide so why does he need a job when we have a system in place that takes care of the needs of people who are unable to find work? I think perhaps you never knew about the benefit system in England thats why? You thought unless a man has a job he has no income at all correct?

I dont need to do that, because i never said living on benefits is a bad thing..as i mentioned above. And please cut down on the generalisation dear brother, there are brothers and sisters out there who are not married and are on the safe side i.e looking to get married etc etc, so not everyone is like how you mentioned in the quote.

jazakallaahu Khaayr.

You're missing the point, I will have to explain I think :hmm: what I mentioned is nothing about living on benefits, it was about preventing sin which happens amongst the youth due to them not being able to get married they do that stuff cos they have no halal outlet for their desires, what is better a person goes around fornicating cos he can't get married or he gets married and doesn't fornicate?? obviously the second option so if we made marriage easier then there would be less sin. That was the point I was making, please if you don't understand the point then ask for clarification instead of talking about something completely random.

sure not all youth are doing what I mentioned but go see what the majority of youth are doing in colleges and night clubs and then come back and tell me you think it's good idea to prevent them from marriage, they're not in the masjids praying, they're out chasing girls and fornicating in the clubs surely you can't be naive of this?? Do you think the majority of youth are in masjids offering their salah and studying to be 'alims? lol and because of this, the point I was making is that we should not make marriage so complicated for young people to the point they fall into sin, a man can offer an adequate life on benefits and it will protect them both from sin. Which is much better right?

Yes there is a few who managed to keep them self safe but how many do you think they are?? not everyone is a good as you, you know. Let me put to you in this way maybe you'll understand better, men often say "Forget getting married in this country all the girls have been used all ready and had boyfriends they're not even virgins any more, we'll go back to Pakistan and find a girl who's remained pure" they say this because it's impossible to find a girl who hasn't been in some type of relationship. You may get the odd few good girls who remained chaste through out their life but not many. Therefore if we stopped being so fussy with out daughters we would reduce the haraam that goes on. That's what I was trying to get across.

yes i agree. But as long as its not forever. I didnt mention anything such as 'top' job did i? If i did, its because thats some parents requirements. There will be people who will never accept you, same way you wont accept them for reasons. may Allaah guide the ummah and keep them on the straight path, Aameen.

Well if a person is looking for a job and trying to find one then it won't be forever will it?? You didn't mention top job but you said he must have a job to be able to provide and I asked you to explain why he needs a job to provide when he can provide on benefits can't he?? Yes some parents make that requirement that he has to have a job when unemployment continues to arise especially among Muslim youth so aren't they seeking a partner for their child who can offer the best quality of life in the duniya regardless if he's pious or not?? What if they have a choice between a pious person on benefits and a non pious person working what do you think they'll choose? What would your parents choose? A pious guy on benefits who's trying to get a job but has no degree or a guy with a good job and high salary but he isn't pious?? If you're parents would choose the pious guy on benefits over the guy with a degree and job then I'd say mashaAllah and would be happy that there is some parents who care about their children's akhira more so than their duniya.

Yes but the reason for not accepting a person shows a lot about character, if you reject a person with good deen because he won't be able to provide your daughter with the life of a queen, due to him being on benefits he can only provide a standard life style then what does that say? what are you looking for? Are you looking for piety or money?

Im fully aware of this. jazakallaahu Khaayr. Im saying this on behalf of parents, generally the parents i've come across want a man who has a job. But if you could explain this issue to any sister's parents, that you will be on benefits, and then explaining getting a job later, do you think anyone will accept you? If so that is good and I hope it goes well for you insha'Allaah.

You're missing the point, what is the consequence very often of parents delaying their childs marriage? their child falls into sin right not all the time but most of the time? so isn't it better they get their child married off to a pious person ASAP rather than have their kids wait around for that dream guy who's pious with a job? No I don't think they will accept and this is precisely my point that it's wrong because their creating an environment for their child where they're likely to fall into sin. Do you not see that?

I dont know who this 'we' is..definetly not me included.

I didn't say you were included in it, it was a general statement about what I feel the majority of Muslim parents are thinking about which is not making sure they prevent their child from sin by facilitating marriage for their child ASAP rather making their child wait and creating an environment of fitna for them as a result. I'm sure you've got friends who fell into haraam relationships right? do you think if their parents got them married ASAP then they still would've fall into the same haraam relationships? I don't think so because marriage protects you from zina.

Because its wrong, and people need to be educated. Allaah place millions of humans on this earth, not all are un-educated.

Yes it is wrong but it exists because people have the mentality that I will choose the person with a good job and degree for my daughter/son rather than choosing the pious person.

inshaa'Allaah! One should be thankful he has a roof over his head and something to eat. You'd be suprised to know there are sisters as such.

[/COLO

I'd love to meet them because from my personal experiences they are rare, which shows the general condition of the ummah atm.

I don't know perhaps I'm an idealistic person and expecting too much from this ummah when quite frankly we're no where near perfect.

 

[jimbo123]

Again why do you insist that a man needs a job to provide for his family in England after all of the above? Can you explain please? You said a man needs a job to provide so why does he need a job when we have a system in place that takes care of the needs of people who are unable to find work? I think perhaps you never knew about the benefit system in England thats why? You thought unless a man has a job he has no income at all correct?

I remember reading a hadith that said a believer who earns his own bread is better than a believer who doesn't. I've spent about half an hour trying to find where I read this hadith but cannot locate it, is anyone else familiar with this it?

 

[Salahudeen]

I remember reading a hadith that said a believer who earns his own bread is better than a believer who doesn't. I've spent about half an hour trying to find where I read this hadith but cannot locate it, is anyone else familiar with this it?

Very good I agree, what if there is no opportunities for a believer to earn his bread though? So he's forced to rely upon the government benefits that come from taxes that his family members pay in order to provide such a system of support for people out of work.

 

[Banu_Hashim]

But akhi Salahudeen, how can you claim to be pious and rely on benefits? It is a sunnah of the prophets to have a trade and excel in that trade to the point where you are the best in your field. A lot of prophets were sheep herders, rasoolAllah (sallalAllahu 'alayhi wa sallam) himself was a sheep herder as well as a successful businessman in his early life. Imam Abu Haneefah (raheemahullah) was a renowned clothes merchant. Shaykh Al-Albaani was a highly skilled watch repair man. So whether that skill is in business, medicine, law, pharmacy, engineering you need to have a skill whereby you can earn money. When you spend on your family on top of the basic necessities like jewellery for your wife and gifts for your children it is a reward-able act. We need ihsaan in deen and dunya.

To settle for benefits and claim to be 'pious' is not an excuse.

 

[Salahudeen]

But akhi Salahudeen, how can you claim to be pious and rely on benefits? It is a sunnah of the prophets to have a trade and excel in that trade to the point where you are the best in your field. A lot of prophets were sheep herders, rasoolAllah (sallalAllahu 'alayhi wa sallam) himself was a sheep herder as well as a successful businessman in his early life. Imam Abu Haneefah (raheemahullah) was a renowned clothes merchant. Shaykh Al-Albaani was a highly skilled watch repair man. So whether that skill is in business, medicine, law, pharmacy, engineering you need to have a skill whereby you can earn money. When you spend on your family on top of the basic necessities like jewellery for your wife and gifts for your children it is a reward-able act. We need ihsaan in deen and dunya.

To settle for benefits and claim to be 'pious' is not an excuse.

Well I know plenty of people who have skills, some are doctors, others are computer engineers, others are accountants, but the problem is that there is no demand for those skills, so once they acquire those skills they search for jobs to utilize those skills and there isn't many jobs out there. So what do you propose we do with all these skillfull people who aren't able to utilize the skills they've learned through education because there's no jobs for them?

I'll try find the new report for you about graduate doctors who can't find jobs because there's no jobs for them. Also can a person who is pious not claim benefits and support his family with that? I know an imam who claims benefits to pay the rent on the house he lives in with his family does that mean he's not pious?

Your idea that a person who claims benefits can't be pious is strange I think.

 

[jimbo123]

Thats bein bias bro;D

Lol sorry I'm trying to be objective as I can. I've seen a lot of mothers (even practising ones) that blatantly mistreat their daughter-in-laws and I have not seen my mother do that. I haven't even seen them argue once!

With regards to whether or not it's harder for guys or girls, it's definitely hard for both but in different ways!

Like someone said earlier, a man wants to get married (or have a girlfriend whatever) from the age of 13 and suppresses it until the age of around 25 when he finishes his education and begins work. That desire to marry is so strong and there's all kind of temptations calling to you so yeah it is very difficult for guys to suppress that. The only thing more difficult to suppress is hunger for food! Do women have that same desire? It's said that men have 1 part desire and women have the other 9 but Allah coupled that desire with shyness.

For a woman it's completely different. I'm sure things were different around the time of the Messenger of Allah (PBUH) but... and I'm going to be as PC as I can saying this but now guys mainly want someone who is good looking, that is at the top of the list. Social status and wealth isn't really an issue anymore I don't think. So if a woman isn't very good looking, it could be a challenge for her to get married. In this sense for a guy it is different. He can grow some muscles and a beard, groom himself nicely and dress well. Even if a guy isn't handsome, if he has wealth there will still be lots of options for him.

I heard this scholar say on TV Islam solves this problem by allowing a man to marry 4 times. Some women would rather be the 4th wife of a really great person than to not be married at all.

 

[Banu_Hashim]

Well I know plenty of people who have skills, some are doctors, others are computer engineers, others are accountants, but the problem is that there is no demand for those skills, so once they acquire those skills they search for jobs to utilize those skills and there isn't many jobs out there. So what do you propose we do with all these skillfull people who aren't able to utilize the skills they've learned through education because there's no jobs for them?

I'll try find the new report for you about graduate doctors who can't find jobs because there's no jobs for them. Also can a person who is pious not claim benefits and support his family with that? I know an imam who claims benefits to pay the rent on the house he lives in with his family does that mean he's not pious?

I can imagine that the competition for training posts for junior doctors is increasing but I don't think you will find a lot of doctors out of work. And they are certainly not foot-to-mouth or poor. Oh and I disagree that there is absolutely no demand for those jobs you mentioned. The competition is increasing in this climate of course which means as Muslims we need to be ahead in the game compared to our non-Muslim counter parts. If the imaam is serving the community full time then that is his job and inshaAllaah he is pious wa Allaahu 'Alam.

 

[Salahudeen]

I couldn't find the news report about graduate doctors but I found another article that details the fact that it's not about what skills you have when there's no jobs out there, skills are useless.

Graduates warned of record 70 applicants for every job
Class of 2010 told to consider flipping burgers or shelf stacking to build skills as they also compete with last year's graduates

Graduates are facing the most intense scramble in a decade to get a job this summer, as a poll of employers reveals the number of applications for each vacancy has surged to nearly 70 while the number of available positions is predicted to fall by nearly 7%.

The class of 2010 have been told to consider flipping burgers or stacking shelves when they leave university as leading firms in investment banking, law and IT are due to cut graduate jobs this year.

Competition in the jobs market is fiercer now than for the first "post-crunch" generation of students, last year, when there were 48 applications for each vacancy.

The number of applicants chasing each job is so high that nearly 78% of employers are insisting on a 2.1 degree, rendering a 2.2 marginal and effectively ruling out any graduates with a third, according to the survey published tomorrow.

The Association of Graduate Recruiters polled over 200 firms including Cadbury, Marks & Spencer, JP Morgan and Vodafone and found the number of applications per vacancy had risen to 68.8 this year, the highest figure recorded. In the most hotly contested sector – makers of fast-moving consumer goods such as food, confectionery and cosmetics – there were 205 applications for each job.

here's the link for you http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2010/jul/06/graduates-face-tougher-jobs-fight

so you can see it's not about whether you have an employable skill, the fact is that the rate of unemployment is going up because there's no jobs, I mentioned earlier, people who are claiming benefits in todays world aren't people who are lazy and can't be bothered to study, it's people who have degree's and are finding after graduation that there's no jobs out there, also look at all the government cuts which have contributed to an even higher unemployment rate, on top of that, the unemployment amongst Muslims is higher than non Muslim counter parts. Which suggests Muslims find it harder to get jobs.

I'm not advocating that a person sits at home on benefits and gives up on working, I'm not saying that incase you got that impression, I'm saying unemployment rates are rising and if things don't get better then sooner or later there's going to be a whole bunch of us skill full people out of work and are we going to give up on marriage because there's not enough jobs for the entire population?

 

[noorseeker]

If i had to live off benefits, i would take it grudgingly , Im a man, i have that thing inside me not to ask for a hand out.

Max i take from mum is £1 ;D

But on the other side ive paid enough national insurance for me to get benefits and not feel guilty , as ive paid into the system,

Thats how it is in uk. im paying taxes , so the guy down da rd can get same amount of money i earn. get his rent payed, wake up at 10 and watch Jeremy kyle show;D
while rest of us are graftin away

I can say no fairnes in that.

Theres a lot of religious guys that dont wana work.