Now France bans Muslims from praying outside mosques

[Abz2000]

the market always levels out and fixes due to supply and demand - hoarding of goods for the purpose of monopoly and price control was forbidden by 'Umar (ra) and when something's forbidden by 'Umar - you know.................

but the market itself was free to prosper without manipulation.
it is Allah who sends the rains.

it is only today that we are seeing the catastrophic effects of market manipulation where multi-billion dollar companies are subsidised with the labour of the poor - while the poor who pay the subsidies can't afford to buy the subsidised goods anyway.
forget that for a game of commie soldiers.

and not sahih?
just because it's not in bukhari and muslim?
do you even know what sahih means?
it means authentic - not authenticated by two (respected) scholars.
there are many more hadith than those Imam Muslim (ra) and Imam Bukhari (ra) had access to.
can you name an instance where the Prophet (pbuh) fixed the prices of items in order to declare it not sahih?

anyways - this is way off topic

 

[Futuwwa]

Omar is not a prophet, nor is he morally infallible. And what you're talking about is private market manipulation, something that's almost inevitable in an unregulated free market. Governmental regulation and price control is yet another thing. And something that Socialism doesn't require to begin with, and which I've never supported.

Also, usury is inherent to capitalism.

 

[Abz2000]

he was one of the "Khulafa-ar-Rashideen"
rashid means rightly guided - and he would definitely enforce it severely if he saw it messed about.
he wouldn't go to rothschild and beg him to fix the gold price out of fear of market manipulation,
he'd tell him not to play about and would come down like a tonne of bricks,
but money talks these days huh?

let's get back to topic

 

[Futuwwa]

Calling him that doesn't make him infallible. But he was quite socialistic too, Arab Communists use to call Omar the first of their kind.

 

[Abz2000]

i said it three times before saying this:
In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous,
or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog,
with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response
or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.

.........and i do notice your other posts................

 

[Futuwwa]

Coming down like a ton of bricks on a capitalist who misbehaves. Sounds radically left-wing to me

 

[Abz2000]

still obfuscating the subject is see -
the Guidance of God in Islam is not about Commie or Cappie,
republican or democrat
liberal or conservative.
left or right
it's about right and wrong.
labels don't clarify issues - they obscure them


These are nothing but names which ye have devised,- ye and your fathers,- for which Allah has sent down no authority.
They follow nothing but conjecture and what their own souls desire!
- Even though there has already come to them Guidance from their Lord!
Quran 53:23

and i still can't believe you're posting off topic after that....................

 

[Ramadhan]

Same here. Muslims should become creative and use the law to their advantage. If they can't pray in the streets, I'm sure they can pray in the park/mall. The Muslim community in France can get together and buy a building and turn it into a small mosque or something. There are many options to explore.

I agree. Maybe muslims in paris could work and coordinate to conduct shalah jumah in that field under the eiffel tower, or regular prayers under arc de triomphe or in the jardin de luxembourgs. More people could then see how peaceful and how God-fearing muslims are and thus would attract their attention to learn more about Islam.

And let's see how bigoted the french really are if they try also to ban them.

 

[Karl]

still obfuscating the subject is see -
the Guidance of God in Islam is not about Commie or Cappie,
republican or democrat
liberal or conservative.
left or right
it's about right and wrong.
labels don't clarify issues - they obscure them


These are nothing but names which ye have devised,- ye and your fathers,- for which Allah has sent down no authority.
They follow nothing but conjecture and what their own souls desire!
- Even though there has already come to them Guidance from their Lord!
Quran 53:23

and i still can't believe you're posting off topic after that....................

Well said...don't let the Marxists grind you down. Sadly Europe has been over run by them, especially in France and Scandinavia. They are the real enemy of Islam and any other religion, these State worshipers. They have infiltrated to the farthest parts of the world trying to grind down God and private property rights, parental sovereignty and all cultures to a collective state worshipping one. They are the new Beast.

 

[Abz2000]

those arguing about the streets and convenience don't even touch on the ADMITTED reason for doing this:

Praying in the streets of Paris is against the law starting Friday, after the interior minister warned that police will use force if Muslims, and those of any other faith, disobey the new rule to keep the French capital's public spaces secular.


the creativeness is short lived.

they came out with a host of excuses to rationalise it but admitted the reason in the title.
support their hypocrisy if you will by helping the rationalisation - but i'm telling you it is a war against Islam - you can pretend they aren't slapping you all you like by rationalising but it won't change the facts.

so first they tell us secular means separation of religion and state with all having freedom.
then they say satanism is a religion therefore ok
then they tell you it means without religion without God at all.
those of you who say God is your Ruler - should go check what ruler means
who makes the rules???
Sarkozy
and if you don't stand against that and decide to change it or leave where you can practice freely - God is not your "ruler"

 

[Ali Mujahidin]

To Borther abz2000, please be kind to an old man. Your words are long and weighty and worthy, I am sure. What I am not sure is what exactly are you talking about? How about some simple English so that ThisOldMan who is a non-native English speaker may understand, too? I am assuming that you do know what you are talking about.

 

[FS123]

Let's have some level-headed input on this. The roads, whether in Paris or in Mecca, are meant for cars and not for people to pray on. In Mecca, the jemaah can overflow into the streets for the simple reason that just about everybody who can pray is praying and not driving along the roads. In Paris, not everyone is praying. In fact, there are more people driving on the roads than there are people praying. So what is the problem with praying where praying is supposed to be, which is in the mosque and leave the roads to the cars?

I think there is a tinge of unIslamic arrogance in the attitude of any imam who says that no one can stop people from coming to his mosque to pray and if they overflow into the streets, so be it. There is such a thing in Islam as hikmah. If the jemaah in the area can't afford to get a bigger space for solah, then it simply means that the jemaah there just doesn't have the strength, both spiritually and economically, to be that big.

The example of the Holy Prophet s.a.w. had shown time and again that confrontation is not the way of Islam. The Treaty of Hudaibiyah is worth studying in regard to this matter. Here's a link to an article about this treaty:
http://www.cyberistan.org/islamic/treaty28.html

Sayyidina Abu Bakar r.a. is a great example of a Muslim who is brave enough not to hide his faith. Before we talk about following in his footsteps, let's ask ourselves whether we have the same spiritual strength like him in the first place. I think not! So let's not talk about encouraging anyone to do what he did. It's like telling a toddler to jump into a raging river just because there was a great swimmer who had swum across before. Doesn't seem sensible, right?

I am saying all this not because I don't love Islam. I do love Islam. It is the only love of my life. I will die rather than renounce Islam. Nevertheless that doesn't mean that I am not blind to the fact that many people who claim to be Muslims and who claim to champion the rights of Muslims are actually motivated by some very unIslamic reasons. Reasons like personal feelings of egoism and arrogance, or political agenda, or, worse yet, misguided misinterpretation of Islam.

I am fully aware that my viewpoint on this matter is not in consonance with a number of people here. But then again, I am not here to win a popularity contest, am I?

Well said!


-------------------------------

 

[Futuwwa]

and not sahih?
just because it's not in bukhari and muslim?
do you even know what sahih means?
it means authentic - not authenticated by two (respected) scholars.
there are many more hadith than those Imam Muslim (ra) and Imam Bukhari (ra) had access to.

I know what sahih means. Your hadithology may vary from mine. I'm not obliged to accept yours.

can you name an instance where the Prophet (pbuh) fixed the prices of items in order to declare it not sahih?

1. Can you name an instance where the Prophet decreed that thou shalt not interfere with the free market? Islam doesn't work on the presumption that the Prophet is presumed to agree with abz2000 in everything which he hasn't explicitly, directly commented on.

2. Price fixing by the state does not equal Socialism. You can have Socialism without price fixing, and you can have (slightly regulated) Capitalism with it. I have posted this rebuttal several times, yet you've failed to address it and ignored it, keeping parroting the same irrelevant point over again.

anyways - this is way off topic

You deride me for supposedly going off-topic, still you keep replying, and keep insisting that you get the last word, that every post you make is the final argument that settles the issue. That's highly hypocritical.

 

[Abz2000]

Thisoldman,
uncle, all I am saying is that it is not a convenience issue as made clear by the title,
They want to ensure that Islam is not practiced openly,
First they took your khilafah and now they're taking your Islam,
Please ponder over this video:

Don't lose heart, there are many who are awake and stirring, let us fulfil our duty.
Let Allah do the rest. Islam will return insha Allah.

If ye help not (your leader), (it is no matter): for Allah did indeed help him, when the Unbelievers drove him out: he had no more than one companion; they two were in the cave, and he said to his companion, "Have no fear, for Allah is with us": then Allah sent down His peace upon him, and strengthened him with forces which ye saw not, and humbled to the depths the word of the Unbelievers. But the word of Allah is exalted to the heights: for Allah is Exalted in might, Wise.
Quran 9:40

172. Of those who answered the call of Allah and the Messenger, even after being wounded, those who do right and refrain from wrong have a great reward;-
173. Men said to them: "A great army is gathering against you": And frightened them: But it (only) increased their Faith: They said: "For us Allah sufficeth, and He is the best disposer of affairs."
174. And they returned with Grace and bounty from Allah. no harm ever touched them: For they followed the good pleasure of Allah. And Allah is the Lord of bounties unbounded.
175. It is only the Evil One that suggests to you the fear of his votaries: Be ye not afraid of them, but fear Me, if ye have Faith.
Quran 3:172-175

view my newworldorder Page to understand how sarkozy works, and whom he works for,
Peace,
Abz

 

[Salahudeen]

This thread has served it's purpose, time for people to have a kit kat and some pop corn.

opcorn: opcorn::ermm::threadclo

 

[Ramadhan]

Please no personal insults especially to your fellow brothers, or I'll lock this thread.

 

[Pygoscelis]

It's sort of fundamentalist secularism, isn't it? So much for 'Liberté, égalité, fraternité` :hmm:

Depends. Is this exclusively for muslims or for all prayer? If its just muslims it isn't secularism, its Islamophobia.

I'm wondering how they would try to enforce this. Are we getting the whole story here?

If this is an outright ban on prayer outside a place of worship, even I, your most anti-religious member of the forum here, oppose it strongly and will stand with you against it.

 

[GuestFellow]

^ It's for all forms of prayer. It does sound like secularism but there are different forms.

Enforceability will be a problem...

 

[Pygoscelis]

But on the whole, the title is misleading. Prayer outside mosques isn't prohibited. Prayer in the streets is. There's a world of a difference between the two. A street is a transportation lane and a public utility. Praying in it blocks traffic. Keeping public utilities functioning is definitely a matter of state.

People are praying in the streets holding up traffic? I haven't read the article yet, but if that is true it sounds suicidal to me.

 

[Pygoscelis]

prayers on the sidewalk causes a real obstruction for pedestrians and people trying to get in and out of buildings.

If this is the case, don't they already have laws for obstructing traffic? Or if the prayers are loud, are there not laws against creating a nuisance? I see no reason for a special law targetting prayer specifically that wouldn't be caught by the same laws that address panhandling, street musicians, hot dog stands, etc.