Can the Quran match these verses?

[Perseveranze]

Peace,

The irony of "turn the other cheek" is that on Jesus(pbuh)'s second comming, according to the Bible he's going to be very violent, unforgiving and will kill "all his enemies".

And for your info, it's common knowledge that there are more verses in the small Quran book of helping the weak, poor, orphan than there is in all the Bible scriptures put together.

 

[Ramadhan]

Yes you have probably pointed out the hardest scripture to swallow from the Old testament. I don't know the reason why it is written like that, and perhaps only God knows.

You claimed that you follow christianity because of the beautiful sounding verses, not because it offers guidance, or because it has the truth.

And hence I wrote down those lewd, obscene bible verses just in case you forgot that there are also in bible scatology, incestuous sexual fantasies, male and female genital organs described in details, etc etc. This negates your previous claim that "bible must be the truth because it has beautiful verses".

But if Islam was the better religion then obviously I would convert,

Not only Islam is the better religion but it is also the truth, and obviously you have not converted

Read this thread to understand why Islam is the better religion:

http://www.islamicboard.com/general/134306990-if-my-religion-faith-wrong.html

I created this thread for the exposition of the very best of the Bible and the very best of the Quran, not the very worst.

You are welcome to go to clarification about Islam section, and list qur'an verses which you think are obscene or disgusting, because as far as I know, there is no such lewd verse in the Qur'an. In Islam, we are always encouraged to ask question and seek knowledge.

 

[schpoogie]

ok maybe oneday I will, but they have less to do with the Quran, more to do with the acts and sayings of Mohammad

 

[syed1]

no, not one day. do it now

 

[Ramadhan]

I understand that he claimed heritage from Ishmael, Abraham's 1st son, but it was through the line of Isaac that God brought about the Prophets.

Muslims believe that God (swt) bring about messengers to all nations, not just to the israelites, with prophet Muhammad (saw) as the last and seal of prophets (pbuh). Those messengers and prophets brought the same message from God (swt): worship of God alone and other basic commandments.

". . . And there never was a people, without a Warner having lived among them (in the past)." [Al-Qur’an 35:24]

". . . and to every people a guide." [Al-Qur’an 13:7]

"Of some messengers We have already told thee the story; of others we have not." [Al-Qur’an 4:164]

"We did aforetime send messengers before thee: of them there are some whose story We have related to thee, and some whose story We have not related to thee. . ." [Al-Qur’an 40:78]

"Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but (he is) the Messenger of Allaah, and the seal of the Prophets: and Allaah has full knowledge of all things." [Al-Qur’an 33:40] It is mentioned in Sahih Bukhâri, volume 1, Book of Salaah, chapter 56 hadith no. 429 Narrated Jabir bin Abdullah: Allah’s Messenger said, "Every Prophet used to be sent to his nation only but I have been sent to all mankind."

Also Noah, Eber, Abraham, Isaac, Enoch, (pbut) etc are not israleites.

 

[Ramadhan]

ok maybe oneday I will, but they have less to do with the Quran, more to do with the acts and sayings of Mohammad

I see that you have changed your position again.

Why does this sound so familiar?

 

[Ali_008]

But if Islam was the better religion then obviously I would convert, look I can list the disgusting things about Islam and say 'is this God's religion'? right back at you.
But I won't because that's not why I created this thread.
I created this thread for the exposition of the very best of the Bible and the very best of the Quran, not the very worst.

Bring all those quotes and verses on, inshAllah we'll then decide what they mean. Make another thread if you wish but do show us all those verses and quotes you are referring to. I can't wait to see them.

 

[Insaanah]

That is true, I'm not letting the beautiful verses of the Bible be my only reason for having faith in it. But also, love is a really important thing to me, and the New Testament just blows me away with what it says.

What does it say? According to Christians, it says that the first man committed a sin, and that all of mankind is tainted with that sin, and that God could not/did not forgive him, so made another man suffer and die thousands of years later for the mistakes of the first man and for all mankind's sins, sins that the man who was made to die himself did not commit.

This does not paint the picture of a loving, forgiving God as Christians like to trumpet, but an unloving, unforgiving, unjust God, who lacked the power to forgive without having to make a sacrifice.

Now compare the above with this:

While the Christian concept of God seems to be that God is unjust and unforgiving, and lacking in power, the Islamic concept of God, is that He is Most Just, and He is Forgiving, Merciful for all who repent sincerely, forgiving them at will, from the very first people on earth, to all those who will ever live:

Sahih International
They said, "Our Lord, we have wronged ourselves, and if You do not forgive us and have mercy upon us, we will surely be among the losers." (7:23)

Sahih International
Then Adam received from his Lord [some] words, and He accepted his repentance. Indeed, it is He who is the Accepting of repentance, the Merciful. (2:37)

Sahih International
Then his Lord chose him and turned to him in forgiveness and guided [him]. (20:122)

Prophet Adam (peace be upon him) repented sincerely, so God forgave him. As simple as that. No sacrifice needed.

I find Islam to be the only religion that recognises Allah's power to forgive with just His will. All other religions seem to claim that forgiveness requires a purchase price and if we can't pay it, somebody else has to pay it on our behalf.

In Islam, forgiveness comes without a purchase price or sacrifice. We do not/can not: buy, sacrifice for, earn or steal it. It comes freely when we sincerely ask for forgiveness and truly repent, accepting Allaah's will. (as stated by Br Woodrow)

I don't understand why all the prophets listed in the Quran are Israelites

All of them are not. Prophets Saalih and Hud (peace be upon them both) are non-israelite prophets.

And remember the Israelite line of Prophets only started through Israil (Prophet Jacob) peace be upon him via Isaac (peace be upon him), so all the Prophets before that are non-israelite; Adam, Enoch, Noah, Abraham Lot, etc (peace be upon them all).

I understand that he claimed heritage from Ishmael, Abraham's 1st son, but it was through the line of Isaac that God brought about the Prophets.

That implies that Christians reject Ishmael (peace be upon him) as a Prophet, while Muslims do not reject any of the Prophets God sent, nor defame their characters.

And mention in the Book, Ishmael. Indeed, he was true to his promise, and he was a messenger and a prophet.
And he used to enjoin on his people prayer and almsgiving and was to his Lord, pleasing. (Translation of Qur'an 19:54-55)

I said that all the prophets came from the line of Isaac, not Ishmael

As above, you are forgetting about all the prophets that came before, whereas Muslims accept all prophets, the ones we've been told about and their stories told to us, and the ones we don't know about and haven't been told about as well.

Say (O Muslims): "We believe in Allah, and that which has been revealed to us, and what was revealed to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob, and the descendants, and what was given to to Moses and Jesus, and that given to (all) Prophets from their Lord: We make no difference between one and another of them: And to Him we have submitted (in Islam).." (Holy Qur'an 2:136).

The Qur'an does not say that all Prophets were descended from the line of Isaac (peace be upon him):

And when Abraham and Ishmael were raising the foundations of the House, (saying): Our Lord! Accept from us (this duty). Lo! You, only You, are the Hearer, the Knower.
Our Lord, and make us Muslims [in submission] to You and from our descendants a Muslim nation [in submission] to You. And show us our rites and accept our repentance. Indeed, You are the Accepting of repentance, the Merciful.
Our Lord! And raise up in their midst a messenger from among them who shall recite unto them Your revelations, and shall instruct them in the Scripture and in wisdom and shall make them grow. Lo! You, only You, are the Mighty, Wise. (2:127-129)

And Allah answered that prayer:
Just as We have sent among you a messenger from yourselves reciting to you Our verses and purifying you and teaching you the Book and wisdom and teaching you that which you did not know. (2:151)

And, actually, God tells Prophet Moses (peace be upon him) in the Bible that there will come a non-israelite prophet, specifically an ishmaelite prophet, who people have to follow:

"I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren,
like unto thee,
and I will put my words in his mouth;
and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him." (Deuteronomy.18:18).

First thing is "a prophet from among their brethren", note that it does not say "from among them" but "from among their brethren". Who are the brethren of the israelites? The ishmaelites! If Ishmael and Isaac are the sons of the same father Abraham (peace be upon them all), then they are brothers. And so the children of the one are the BRETHREN of the children of the other. So God is telling you that a Prophet will come, who is a descendent of Ishmael (peace be upon him).

Next: "Like unto thee".

Some say the verses refer to Jesus (peace be upon him) but let's put that to the test and examine the likes:

Both Moses (pbuh) and Muhammad (pbuh) had a mother and father, Jesus (pbuh) did not.
Both Moses (pbuh) and Muhammad (pbuh) had a normal birth, Jesus (pbuh) did not.
Both Moses (pbuh) and Muhammad (pbuh) married and had children, Jesus (pbuh) did not.
Both Moses (pbuh) and Muhammad (pbuh) were accepted by their people in their lifetime, while Jesus (pbuh) on the whole was not accepted by the Jews he was sent to.
Both Moses (pbuh) and Muhammad (pbuh) died natural deaths, Jesus (pbuh) did not.
And the list goes on...

So the Prophet like unto Moses (peace be upon him) is Muhammad (peace be upon him).

Next:"And I will put my words into his mouth"

History tells us that Muhummad (pbuh) was forty years of age. He was in a cave some three miles north of the City of Mecca. In the cave the Archangel Gabriel commands him in his mother tongue: 'Iqra'' which means Read! or Proclaim! or Recite! Muhummed (pbuh) was terrified and in his bewilderment replied that he was not learned! The angel commands him a second time with the same result. For the third time the angel continues.

Now Muhummad (pbuh) grasps what was required of him was to repeat! to rehearse! And he repeats the words as they were put into his mouth:

"Read! In the name of your Lord and Cherisher, who created-
Created man, from a clinging substance:

Read! And thy Lord is most bountiful,-
He who taught (the use of) the pen,

Taught man that which he knew not".
(Holy Qur'an 96:1-5)

These are the first five verses which were revealed to Prophet Muhummad (peace be upon him) which now occupy the beginning of the 96th chapter of the Holy Qur'an.

"If anyone does not listen to my words that the prophet speaks in my name, I myself will call him to account." (Deuteronomy 18:19)

113 chapters of the Qur'an as revealed by Allah to, and spoken by Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) all begin with "In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful." God's words, spoken by the Prophet, in His name. With this formula in fact, Muslims begin every lawful act. And in the first revelation to Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), mentioned above, what were the words that came immediately after Read? Have a look... "in the name of your Lord."

The Prophecy is fulfilled in Prophet Muhummad (peace be upon him) to the letter.

"If anyone does not listen to my words that the prophet speaks in my name, I myself will call him to account." (Deuteronomy 18:19)

So God is telling you in the Bible to believe in prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). And I invite you to do so.

Sahih International
O Mankind, the Messenger has come to you with the truth from your Lord, so believe; it is better for you. But if you disbelieve - then indeed, to Allah belongs whatever is in the heavens and earth. And ever is Allah Knowing and Wise. (4:70)

Sahih International
Say, [O Muhammad], "O mankind, indeed I am the Messenger of Allah to you all, [from Him] to whom belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth. There is no deity except Him; He gives life and causes death." So believe in Allah and His Messenger, the unlettered prophet, who believes in Allah and His words, and follow him that you may be guided. (7:158)

Peace.

 

[Amigo]

As to the authors intention to show that the blood and lineage of the Jewish people is untainted, consider the fact that according to the Bible, Abraham and Sarah were brother and Sister! (Genesis 20:12.) This same author is the one who insulted the Prophet Lot by saying he had an incestuous drunken relationship with his two daughters, (Genesis 19:36) And Jacob was married to two sisters at the same time: (Genesis 29:28). The intention is clear, that the author of Genesis is either a pervert obsessed with incest, or he slanders honorable prophets with false stories of Incest in order to show that the blood of Isaac and his descendants (The Jews) is pure.

The fact that Jacob was married to two sisters at the same time and then their servant girls is much worse that Abraham involvement with Hagar. This would be a terrible case for the purity of Jewish people.
The author of those critiques just doesn't understand biblical writtings. What is being targeted here is not single individuals but sin in every man.
It is important to note that genealogical tracking did not start with Ismael and Isaac, but with Adam and Eve. I am not Semite, perhaps I should go after scribes for not tracking my ancestors and only focusing on the line of Shem...that would be simple paranoia.

What is being tracked in the Bible through genealogies is Christ; the pure seed or pure fruit of a woman.
God express his sacred creative power through human sexuality. It is through human sexuality that every man is created. But a corrupt seed means a corrupt tree, so if you need a perfect tree, you need a perfect seed which can not be corrupted. God promised this seed to Adam from the beginning as his pledge of his Mercy to Adam and Eve. It is this seed which is being traced throughout the OT by prophetic scribes. This seed finally came out through the fruitfullness of the Virgin Mary.
Muslims could be amont the first to realise this and rejoice over it considering what they believe about Jesus's conceiption and birth.
Otherwise, did the Jews also write the Quaranic verses describing the birth of Christ?

If Jewish Scribes were focused on exalting themselves and their ancestors, they would not point out their own sins. Instead, they would perhaps justify sin and call it lawful or permissible by God because ancestors/prophets did it. But they focus on God and his perfection and they don't seem to be afraid of pointing out that even great men were not perfect even if these men were their ancestors.

 

[Abz2000]

But a corrupt seed means a corrupt tree, so if you need a perfect tree, you need a perfect seed which can not be corrupted. God promised this seed to Adam from the beginning as his pledge of his Mercy to Adam and Eve.

it is truly amazing how they rage at the fact that we refuse to be corrupted and "integrate", that we "hold on to 7th century beliefs", and are intolerant towards homos and usurers.
while zionists and romans have "progressed"

Islam, 'like' many other Religions, promotes active discrimination between Believers & Non-Believers as a part of its core doctrine. Unlike the Bible it has never been Reformed. Quranic Quote Surah 3:28 States "Do not take un-believers as friends...". Such divisions in British Society can only prove to further weaken our Country(if we weren't secular,that is).
http://debatewise.org/debates/1553-are-muslims-able-to-integrate-with-british-society

This conference seeks to uncover the intricate and transformative interactions between France’s decidedly universalist and secularist policy of cultural homogenization and the demands and practices of its various communities. To do so, our scholars will compare Jewish and Muslim trajectories of integration from the French Revolution to the present. The Jews, who had long been dismissed as inassimilable aliens, are now celebrated as paragons of “republican loyalism” and models of cultural and social integration. Supporters of the status quo believe that North-African Muslim immigrants, who have succeeded the Jews as France’s new “others,” should emulate Jewish populations in French society. Indeed, the French government, in an attempt to rally the heterogeneous Muslim population to French republican ideology, has been trying to transfer the French-Jewish model of communal organization to its Muslim minorities.
http://pjc.georgetown.edu/85749.html

the promise was made to abraham through faith, and not through the law - read your bible (version).
and isaiah 53 says it all.

 

[جوري]

The fact that Jacob was married to two sisters at the same time and then their servant girls is much worse that Abraham involvement with Hagar. This would be a terrible case for the purity of Jewish people.

This is nonsensical, furthermore Sarah herself was Abraham's sister:
Genesis 18:17-19 Abraham will surely become a great and powerful nation, and all nations on earth will be blessed through him. (NIV)
Note: In regards to Genesis 18 & 19, see my thorough refutation to the trinity lie that was invented using them.

But according to the Mosaic Law he is "accursed, and disfavored by God" why? Because Abraham married his own sister (Sarah). The Bible says:
Genesis 20:12 And yet indeed she is my sister; she is the daughter of my father, but not the daughter of my mother; and she became my wife. (KJV)

The Law of Moses states:
Deuteronomy 27:22 Cursed be he that lieth with his sister, the daughter of his father, or the daughter of his mother. And all the people shall say, Amen. (KJV)

secondly Hagar according to the Jewish encyclopedia was an Egyptian princess not a slave girl!

Sarah’s Egyptian handmaiden, as an Egyptian princess whom Pharaoh king of Egypt gave to Sarah as a gift. She grew up in the home of Abraham and Sarah, and converted.
http://jwa.org/encyclopedia/article/hagar-midrash-and-aggadah

So I have no idea where you make this a sin and that a crime and this favored and that fabulous .. you're nonsensical at best!

The author of those critiques just doesn't understand biblical writtings. What is being targeted here is not single individuals but sin in every man.
It is important to note that genealogical tracking did not start with Ismael and Isaac, but with Adam and Eve. I am not Semite, perhaps I should go after scribes for not tracking my ancestors and only focusing on the line of Shem...that would be simple paranoia.

Again no idea what this means indeed many people don't understand biblical writing and it is because it is full of nonsense that is still being worked on centuries later and doesn't make any better sense:

Introduction: We must first of all know that the entire Bible is corrupted and unreliable and is mostly filled with man-made laws and corruption! GOD Almighty Said: "`How can you say, "We [the Jews] are wise, for we have the law of the LORD," when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?' (From the NIV Bible, Jeremiah 8:8)"​

The Revised Standard Version makes it even clearer: "How can you say, 'We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us'? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie. (From the RSV Bible, Jeremiah 8:8)"
​

What is being tracked in the Bible through genealogies is Christ; the pure seed or fruit of a woman.

How is that selling with the Jews? Do they buy into that?

God express his sacred creative power through human sexuality. It is through human sexuality that every man is created. But a corrupt seed means a corrupt tree, so if you need a perfect tree, you need a perfect seed which can not be corrupted. God promised this seed to Adam from the beginning as his pledge of his Mercy to Adam and Eve. It is this seed which is being traced throughout the OT by prophetic scribes. This seed finally came out through the fruitfullness of the Virgin Mary.

Another load of nonsensical crock. The only people who buy into it are indoctrinated Christians who can't reason to save their dear life!

Muslims should be amont the first to realise this and rejoice over it what they believe about Jesus's conceiption and birth.
Otherwise, did the Jews also write the Quaranic verses describing the birth of Christ?

Work on your syntax, grammar before you jump into exegesis, you manage to give us a hearty guffaw and expose more funnies from the bible as per my first paragraph..

best,

 

[Amigo]

Happy are you because you can reason to save your dear life. You can reason your way into salvation. Some of us need help from above.

Sorry to burden you with all those long texts. I am usually resolved for short answers... what was I thinking with all that...sinner me.

 

[جوري]

Happy are you because you can reason to save your dear life. You can reason your way into salvation. Some of us need help from above.

Sorry to burden you with all those long texts. I am usually resolved for short answers... what was I thinking with all that...sinner me.

Indeed you need all the help you can get but God doth help those who help themselves!
emotional hijack doesn't work with me nor reverse psychology.. so good luck with all of that, work it on your own private time.. I am taking my little niece out for a movie insha'Allah..

best,

 

[Abz2000]

What is being tracked in the Bible through genealogies is Christ; the pure seed or fruit of a woman.

which genealogy, the one through mary (as) or the one through joseph?

 

[Amigo]

The one that ends with Jesus.

 

[Ramadhan]

If Jewish Scribes were focused on exalting themselves and their ancestors, they would not point out their own sins. Instead, they would perhaps justify sin and call it lawful or permissible by God because ancestors/prophets did it. But they focus on God and his perfection and they don't seem to be afraid of pointing out that even great men were not perfect even if these men were their ancestors.

Of course the jewish scribes and rabbis changed history and accused their own prophets of many horrendous sins, so they can exalt themselves that they are better than the prophets (pbut).

This is no different than the catholics who exalt their saints over prophets (pbut), and even pray and worship the saints.

 

[Ramadhan]

Happy are you because you can reason to save your dear life. You can reason your way into salvation. Some of us need help from above.

Sorry to burden you with all those long texts. I am usually resolved for short answers... what was I thinking with all that...sinner me.

Amigo, who lied?

Did you lie?
Or did Saul lie?

 

[Ali_008]

What is being tracked in the Bible through genealogies is Christ; the pure seed or pure fruit of a woman.
God express his sacred creative power through human sexuality. It is through human sexuality that every man is created. But a corrupt seed means a corrupt tree, so if you need a perfect tree, you need a perfect seed which can not be corrupted. God promised this seed to Adam from the beginning as his pledge of his Mercy to Adam and Eve. It is this seed which is being traced throughout the OT by prophetic scribes. This seed finally came out through the fruitfullness of the Virgin Mary.
Muslims could be amont the first to realise this and rejoice over it considering what they believe about Jesus's conceiption and birth.
Otherwise, did the Jews also write the Quaranic verses describing the birth of Christ?

Doesn't this pure seed theory contradict the bible which says every human is born sinful?

Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me. Psalms 51:5 (NIV)

Jesus was human. How can he be both pure and sinful at the same time? :uuh:

 

[Amigo]

Sin is a corruption, it is not part of human nature, a cured person will not transmit it to their offspring.

 

[جوري]

Sin is a corruption, it is not part of human nature, a cured person will not transmit it to their offspring.

Oh so 'Original sin' was just a concocted lie of Christianity?

best,