What was Jesus accused of that people wanted to punish him for?

[Predator]

What would that core belief be?

I meant your book is filled with contradictions which is nothing but evident falsehood and falsehood perished when the truth is hurled against it.


Quran 21:18 "When truth is hurled against falsehood, falsehood perishes, for falsehood by its nature is bound to perish


Your core belief is that salvation can only be obtained through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ:-




"If Christ be not risen from the dead, then our preaching is vain, and
your faith is also vain."
(1 Corinthians 15:14)
In a nutshell, No Crucifixion! - No Christianity!
,There is nothing that Christianity can offer mankind, other than the blood and gore of Jesus. If Jesus did NOT die, and he was NOT resurrected from the dead, then there can be NO salvation in Christianity! "




"THE DEATH OF JESUS ON THE CROSS IS THE CENTRE OF ALL CHRISTIAN THEOLOGY. . .ALL CHRISTIAN STATEMENTS ABOUT GOD, ABOUT CREATION, ABOUT SIN AND DEATH HAVETHEIR FOCAL POINT IN THE CRUCIFIED CHRIST. ALL CHRISTIAN STATEMENTS ABOUTHISTORY, ABOUT THE CHURCH, ABOUT FAITH AND SANCTIFICATION, ABOUT THE FUTURE AND ABOUT HOPE STEM FROM THE CRUCIFIED CHRIST",




It is contadicted by






(Deuteronomy 24:16)
“The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.”

The Bible is very clear that no person will be responsible for the sins of others . Each person is answerable for himself alone and cannot blame it on Adam and Eve and that children shall not be put to death for son So that means ,Jesus will not pay the price of his Great Great Maternal Grandfather -Adam.




Ezek 18:20
The soul that sinneth, it shall die.




Ezekiel 18:21
But if a wicked man turns away from his sins and obeys my laws and does what is fair and right, he shall surely live he shall not die




So there are 2 contradictory statements




1. You are saved by turning away from your sins


2. You are saved only by Jesus supposedly killed on Cross

So you are left to make your own choice as to which verse is correct

 

[MustafaMc]

You are exactly correct that, "In a nutshell, No Crucifixion! - No Christianity!", but it goes beyond that as Christianity is also based on

1) Jesus was the 'only begotten Son of God' John 3:16 AND at the same time literally 'God with us' Matthew 1:23
2) Jesus was crucified AND died on the cross John 19:33
3) Jesus spent '3 days AND 3 nights in the heart of the earth' Matthew 12:40
4) Jesus' lifeless body was buried AND he was resurrected from the dead to live again Matthew 28:5-7

If you remove any element of these basic beliefs, then Christianity collapses as a myth, like a house of cards. The Quran itself refutes belief #1 with Al-Maida ayat 17 and At-Taubah ayat 30 and it refutes belief #2 with An-Nisa ayat 157.

 

[Amigo]

Quran 21:18 "When truth is hurled against falsehood, falsehood perishes, for falsehood by its nature is bound to perish

Talking about contradictions; is this from the same package that says that 3 types of falsehood are permissible?

Actually I like that quote. It expresses without realizing it the core belief of Christianity. If you truly believe that, you will be saved, perhaps the same way OT people will be saved, for that's about how their belief in the death and resurrection of the Christ was expressed from their point of view.

There is a difference between reading and understanding. One who understand the resurrection of Christ, understands Scriptures. Not the other way around. We are not talking about the resurrection of any human being, but of Truth itself. Yeah, understanding of the nature of Truth comes first, then understanding the truthfullness of things.

The Bible quotes you provided do not contradict the core belief of Christianity. They prophecy it. You see contradictions because of your exceptions to Truth. You can not undersand Truth fully without embracing it fully.

 

[Amigo]

You are exactly correct that, "In a nutshell, No Crucifixion! - No Christianity!", but it goes beyond that as Christianity is also based on

1) Jesus was the 'only begotten Son of God' John 3:16 AND at the same time literally 'God with us' Matthew 1:23
2) Jesus was crucified AND died on the cross John 19:33
3) Jesus spent '3 days AND 3 nights in the heart of the earth' Matthew 12:40
4) Jesus' lifeless body was buried AND he was resurrected from the dead to live again Matthew 28:5-7

To be precise:

In a nutshell, no truth, no Christianity.
No absolute devotion to absolute truth, no perfect Christian devotion.

Death/cruxifiction is the unavoidable consequences of anyone who commit to truth without exceptions.
Resurrection is the unfailing promise to anyone who is faithful/truthful unto death.
Sonship...is 'seen' by anyone who live in the truth.
All these are results of life in the truth.
Truth is the foundation, the Beginning and the End.
Truth is the Way, the Christian Way.

 

[Predator]

Talking about contradictions; is this from the same package that says that 3 types of falsehood are permissible?

Those are exceptional cases which concern saving lives, reconciling between people, or creating love between husband and wife.

But you preach lies and pretend for dangerous purpose to get converts and drag them to hell

Philipians 1:18
What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in falsehood or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.

19For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more. 20And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law; 21To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law. 22To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.

So notice how the devil Paul would pretend to be different persons, to a Jew he pretends to be Jewish, and to a gentile (Greek) he pretends to be a Greek! Christian missionaries have directly used this as well, you will literally have Christian missionaries to pretend to be Muslims, they will claim they are Muslims, yet you will find out that they support Israel, Zionism, claim Jesus is divine, that the prophet Muhammad is not special and they will try to catch Muslim fish like this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aktisCe24g



While we on the other hand use intellectual sword which is nothing but Wisdom and beautiful preaching

Invite (all) to the Way of thy Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching; and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious." Noble Qur'ân 16:125

It is the duty of Muslims to establish the proof of Islam to the people so that truth can be made clear from falsehood. After that, whoever wishes to accept Islam may do so and whoever wishes to continue upon unbelief may do so. No one should be threatened or harmed in any way if he does not wish to accept Islam.

“Let there be no compulsion in religion. Truth has been made clear from error. Whoever rejects false worship and believes in God has grasped the most trustworthy handhold that never breaks. And God hears and knows all things.” (Quran 2:256)

The Bible quotes you provided do not contradict the core belief of Christianity. They prophecy it. You see contradictions because of your exceptions to Truth. Why do you expect to see fullness of Truth while you don't embrace it fully?

Answer the question first before beating around the bush .

Why did your blundering clumsy devilish holy spirit who supposedly inspires your bible authors got confused and made this contradiction and is not sure whenever Are you saved by repentance from sins or by the so called blood of a middle eastern man who lived 2000 years ago ?

If one of them is wrong then whole book should be thrown out because God does not make mistakes . It as simple as that

 

[MustafaMc]

In a nutshell, no truth, no Christianity.
No absolute devotion to absolute truth, no perfect Christian devotion.

You are exactly correct that if the crucifixion of Jesus did not happen, then Christianity is based on falsehood. As much as I believe in Allah (subhana wa ta ala) as my Creator and Sustainer, so also do I believe that Jesus (alayhi salam) was not crucified. You have to convince me of the truth of the claim (that I believe is a lie) that he was crucified before anything else you write has any value.

From my perspective the entirety of the Christian faith is as a 'house built on sand'. Matthew 7:21-27 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’ “Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash.”

 

[Amigo]

You are exactly correct that if the crucifixion of Jesus did not happen, then Christianity is based on falsehood. As much as I believe in Allah (subhana wa ta ala) as my Creator and Sustainer, so also do I believe that Jesus (alayhi salam) was not crucified. You have to convince me of the truth of the claim (that I believe is a lie) that he was crucified before anything else you write has any value.

Only truth will convince you. Be truthful and you will see. Truth itself is the judge of what can be known about itself.

 

[Amigo]

Those are exceptional cases which concern saving lives, reconciling between people, or creating love between husband and wife.

Do you care wether life is true life or false life? how bout true/false peace and true/false love?
Do you think God cares?

When you embrace full truth, you will understand the Bible and also it will be easier for people to discuss with you. It is almost useless to discuss with a person who have already told you that they could be lying to you depending whatever their perspectives of life, peace, and love are. Without genuine interest/love of truth, discussion is almost useless.

Answer the question first before beating around the bush .

Why did your blundering clumsy devilish holy spirit who supposedly inspires your bible authors got confused and made this contradiction and is not sure whenever Are you saved by repentance from sins or by the so called blood of a middle eastern man who lived 2000 years ago ?

If one of them is wrong then whole book should be thrown out because God does not make mistakes . It as simple as that

There is no beating around the bush. It's a simple question.
And there is no evil in pure truth. There is lots of evil however in the tiniest of falsehood, starting always with confusion in understanding for undestanding is about elimination of falsehoods.

 

[MustafaMc]

Only truth will convince you. Be truthful and you will see. Truth itself is the judge of what can be known about itself.

Tell me if you are truthful, what element of Truth have you written?

 

[MustafaMc]

Amigo, I am reading a book, 'Mysterious Monuments' and a passage reminded me a lot of your posts. I quote from this book below:

"...the truth and facts underlying Freemasonry are veiled and hidden from the ignorant masses ... cloaked in allegory, riddle and cipher, and are presented as meaningless shadows which the profane and vulgar (ordinary persons) cannot possibly comprehend. ... Illuminists vastly enjoy taunting and mocking those of us who simply appreciate honesty and straight talk. All these liars know is deceit and trickery. Riddle and dishonesty are their stock and trade."

You write as no Christian I have ever met or read. Is that label for you a masquerade, disguise or facade for something very different?

 

[Amigo]

We will let the Truth judge.
I am not a Christian according to you, however I am one according to people like the author of the Gospel according to St. John and his other writtings. I supposed you never read them, or you did and you are lying for some purpose more important than truth.

 

[MustafaMc]

We will let the Truth judge.
I am not a Christian according to you, however I am one according to people like the author of the Gospel according to St. John and his other writtings. I supposed you never read them, or you did and you are lying for some purpose more important than truth.

I guess you are talking to me.

I only asked a question which you confirmed by your answer. Perhaps, you are a Gnostic Christian of some sort, but I doubt you are a Catholic or mainstream Protestant.

Yes, I have read the NT gospels. I grew up as a Christian and I read the Bible considerably when I was in college.

Who was the author of the 'Gospel according to St. John'? According to wikipedia, "The Gospel's authorship is anonymous. ... according to most modern scholars, John was not the author of any of these books."http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_John#cite_note-John-author-2

 

[Amigo]

Yes, I was addressing you. It was a direct reply... so no need to quote you...
Well, I believe that he was their author and you don't sound like you really read them.
As about me. Yep, I am Catholic, it looks like you never read the catechism of the Catholic Church either.

If you really read the above, then the only reason you could be saying what you are saying would be that you are lying for the sake of what you believe to be more important than the truth.

 

[MustafaMc]

No, I haven't read the catechism of the Catholic Church, nor do I ever intend to.

I actually reread the NT except for Revelations some time shortly after I started practicing Islam again in June 2001. That is when I came across verses in Galatians where I saw Paul as the Apostle or Prophet or Messenger of Christianity in the same manner Prophet Muhammad (saaws) is for Islam. These verses include Gal 1:11-12, "I want you to know, brothers and sisters, that the gospel I preached is not of human origin. I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ." and 15-20, "But when God, who set me apart from my mother’s womb and called me by his grace, was pleased to reveal his Son in me so that I might preach him among the Gentiles, my immediate response was not to consult any human being. I did not go up to Jerusalem to see those who were apostles before I was, but I went into Arabia. Later I returned to Damascus. Then after three years, I went up to Jerusalem to get acquainted with Cephas (Peter) and stayed with him fifteen days. I saw none of the other apostles—only James, the Lord’s brother. I assure you before God that what I am writing you is no lie." Now Paul never met Jesus while he was on earth to learn the 'gospel' he preached first hand, nor did he learn the 'gospel' from Jesus' disciples second hand. Rather he CLAIMS to have received the gospel he preached directly from God. Now given Paul's propensity to lie and even admitting to lying, I rather question the very ending of the selected passage, Galatians 1:20 "I assure you before God that what I am writing you is no lie."

Now Paul was the foremost in persecuting the followers of The Way even holding the clothing of Stephen as he was stoned and vehemently persecuting the Church as in Acts 8:3 "But Saul (Paul) began to destroy the church. Going from house to house, he dragged off both men and women and put them in prison." Why should Paul be trusted in anything he wrote? You trust Paul whereas I trust Muhammad (saaws) who was known throughout his community as Al-Amin, the Trustworthy. Speaking of which, this article explains trustworthiness in Islam. http://www.islamreligion.com/articles/1703/

On another note, from a Catholic Christian perspective, explain to me the meaning of Hebrews 7:3 "Without father or mother, without genealogy, without beginning of days or end of life, resembling the Son of God, he remains a priest forever." My Islamic understanding of "without father or mother, without genealogy, without beginning of days or end of life" can refer to known other than Allah (swt), but in this passage it refers to Melchizedek a HUMAN king during the time of Abraham.

 

[Amigo]

The same simple answer stands. Walk in the truth, and the truth will shine on your path, then you will see clearly. Paul also did not understand any of those things until he surrendered fully to the Truth. Read again his story, you will see that he had a remarkable accounter with the Truth/Great Light. Notice also that before setting off as a lone missionary, the Truth/Jesus used the Church to put him in proper shape for mission. So you are misunderstanding him when you suppose that he was separate from the Church. He couldn't do anything without being born of the Church anymore that a child can exist without being born of his/her mother.
As clear and simple as this is, it can only be believed by one who has gone through them. Therefore, so long as you close yourself out with some exceptions to truth, so you will never know what you refuse to look at. You ask questions about family relationships while you believe that they can hold with falsehood. From falsehood you can only get misunderstanding. Understanding comes from truth.

 

[MustafaMc]

... you will see that he had a remarkable accounter (encounter?) with the Truth/Great Light....

Also from the book I am reading:

"Masons are continually encouraged by their superiors to seek after more light. Satanists and occultists honor Lucifer, or Satan, as the Father of Light."

On the road to Damascus Saul did have an encounter with light, Acts 22:6 “About noon as I came near Damascus, suddenly a bright light from heaven flashed around me." Was this supernatural being that Saul conversed with actually the afore mentioned 'Father of Light' pretending to be the risen Jesus?

 

[Amigo]

You will tell from truth when you walk in it. There is no falsehood from truth.
I wonder if masons also believe that lying is always wrong. From there you would tell about what type of light they seek.
Satan is also Father of all lies. Now lies x light = false light.
By light I meant true light, not false light.

 

[MustafaMc]

Philipians 1:18
What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in falsehood or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.

19For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more. 20And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law; 21To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law. 22To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.

So notice how the devil Paul would pretend to be different persons, to a Jew he pretends to be Jewish, and to a gentile (Greek) he pretends to be a Greek! Christian missionaries have directly used this as well, you will literally have Christian missionaries to pretend to be Muslims, they will claim they are Muslims, yet you will find out that they support Israel, Zionism, claim Jesus is divine, that the prophet Muhammad is not special and they will try to catch Muslim fish like this

Amigo, Brother Airforce has already shown the lack of truthfulness in the self-acclaimand 'Apostle to the Gentiles' on whose 'gospel' the whole of Christianity is based and the foundation upon which it is based - a foundation of sinking sand. You stand behind Paul and I stand behind Muhammad (saaws). I believe the words Muhammad (saaws) spoke as the revealed Word of Allah (swt). Whether you acknowledge it or not, so too do you believe the words that Paul wrote as the revealed word of God. Deen ukum wa liya deen - to you your religion and to me mine.

 

[Ramadhan]

You will tell from truth when you walk in it. There is no falsehood from truth.
I wonder if masons also believe that lying is always wrong. From there you would tell about what type of light they seek.
Satan is also Father of all lies. Now lies x light = false light.
By light I meant true light, not false light.

You said that christians absolutely under any circumstances MUST NOT lie.

However, saul of tarsus clearly said several times in the bible: christians are allowed to lie.

Both cannot be true. So who lied? you or saul?

 

[Amigo]

You are not reading the Bible properly. Even if he had lied or thought that lying can be okay sometimes, it would only prove that he was a sinner, not that Christianity approves any kind of lie. Paul was a Christian like all others... undergoing purification and perfection day after day.
The Truth does not come from imperfect men, but from the Holy Spirit. From him, pure truth is revealed. That's why one must be with the Holy Spirit in order to read straight through the crooked lines of imperfect men who wrote various writings in the Bible.
I was not baptized in the name of Paul and I don't know any Christian who was.