Was the Prophet of Christianity then inspired to lie, or did he have a Freudian slip, if not, then how are we misreading what he wrote?
What was Jesus accused of that people wanted to punish him for?
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Sorry i did not realize you had posted before my last edit...
You do not have the Holy Spirit who opens one's eyes to what Scriptures are saying in truth.
You do not have the Holy Spirit who opens one's eyes to what Scriptures are saying in truth.
Its you who is blind to what the scriptures are saying and saying "La La la I cant hear you
Ezekiel 18:21
[SUP]20[/SUP]The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.But if the wicked person turns away from all the sins that he has done. He obeys all my laws and does what is fair and right. He will certainly live. He will not die.
Your constant ignorance and rejection reminds me of the below verse
002.006 As to those who reject Faith, it is the same to them whether thou warn them or do not warn them; they will not believe.
002.007 God hath set a seal on their hearts and on their hearing, and on their eyes is a veil; great is the penalty they(incur).
Its fit you well ,amigo
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Ramadhan
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Ah, so you agree that saul of tarsus in the bible said that lying is ok.
And you disagree with saul.
So this means you disagree with your own bible.
What else in the bible that you disagree with?
Ramadhan
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Why am I the one who is not reading the bible properly, when I am the one who base what I am saying with evidence from the bible, and you are the one who is yet to bring a single verse from bible to this discussion?
Who is lying here?
I am?
or you are?
You uphold that falsehood can sustain life and peace in people and love in family and you expect to understand this verse which talks about family and life? Understanding is a relative of truth, not falsehood.
There is no ignorance in truth. Ignorance is in falsehood.
Faith is also a relative of truth, not falsehood. People reject Faith by embracing falsehood. Of course I am speaking of true faith, not false faith here. True faith is sustained by truth; false faith is the faith sustained by falsehood.
As about believing, well, I believe in the truth, and disbelieve in lies. I would not believe a person once they have already indicated to me that they could be lying to me.
That should be easy to answer considering our belief on lying.
Evidence is a relative of truth, not falsehood. One can't get evidence without love of truth and full denounciation of falsehood.
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Ramadhan
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Ah, so this means you lied.
Truth is paramount, and truth will always win at the end. evidence is not relative of falsehood, but of truth. Falsehoods breed more falsehoods, and evidence is obscured by falsehoods.
See how easy it is make up empty words? Anyone can do it just like what you have been doing.
Let me remind you of your own words where you accuse paul of lying:
Dose this mean you don't believe in the bible now?
Remember that paul's words make up more than half of NT, and paul lied (in your own words), so this means you don't believe in all of paul's words.
BUT you LIED.
You still believe in paul's words (otherwise you wouldn't have been christian).
See, when a person does not have the truth but claim they do, they make up lies. and they will keep making up lies to cover up their previous lies.
Christianity was there long before Paul's conversion. He believed what I believe not the other way around
I was not baptized in the name of Paul, nor is Paul in my creed.
Paul is not, has never been, and will never be a requirement for baptism.
The only requirement is absolute committment to absolute truth. For God is Truth itself.
Christians grow in faith by confirming each other in truth; they pray for each other to be delivered from falsehood often hiding in whatever imperfections remaining even as they are being perfected and purified.
You are being confused by your fantasies about Paul, you are giving him the 'honor' he would himself find offensive. Not that you care about offending him, perhaps you are doing it to actually offend him. But like all other great preachers, he was under the authority of the Church which imposed her hands on him to enable him for valid ministry, with this he preached the one true Gospel given to the Church from the foundation. Unfortunately you can not understand this Gospel due to lack of full commitment to truth, but this does not prevent those who have full commitment to truth to understand it and see it shining through out the Bible and the Church even through great human imperfections. For the Word of God is infinetely stronger than the imperfection of men.
The Truth is brightest. It can not even be hindered by the sins of the penitent men who have submitted it its purifyinng powers. It shines through the darkness and conquers all darkness, all falsehood. And we have evening then morning: new day. For those who have full subscription to truth, there is no night over them. When night approches, the Word of God turns it into day, and they move from evening to morning.
I was not baptized in the name of Paul, nor is Paul in my creed.
Paul is not, has never been, and will never be a requirement for baptism.
The only requirement is absolute committment to absolute truth. For God is Truth itself.
Christians grow in faith by confirming each other in truth; they pray for each other to be delivered from falsehood often hiding in whatever imperfections remaining even as they are being perfected and purified.
You are being confused by your fantasies about Paul, you are giving him the 'honor' he would himself find offensive. Not that you care about offending him, perhaps you are doing it to actually offend him. But like all other great preachers, he was under the authority of the Church which imposed her hands on him to enable him for valid ministry, with this he preached the one true Gospel given to the Church from the foundation. Unfortunately you can not understand this Gospel due to lack of full commitment to truth, but this does not prevent those who have full commitment to truth to understand it and see it shining through out the Bible and the Church even through great human imperfections. For the Word of God is infinetely stronger than the imperfection of men.
The Truth is brightest. It can not even be hindered by the sins of the penitent men who have submitted it its purifyinng powers. It shines through the darkness and conquers all darkness, all falsehood. And we have evening then morning: new day. For those who have full subscription to truth, there is no night over them. When night approches, the Word of God turns it into day, and they move from evening to morning.
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ariginality
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I'm curious: which version of the bible are you guys arguing about? How can a scripture be brought from a book with so many versions? And the only pure fact that can be derived is that each is so corrupted. If Satan is said to be the father of all lies. Please bring me a bible that is free from them so that we may have a discussion with relevance and truth.
Amigo, why do you obfuscate what you write with vague references to Truth/falsehood, light/darkness, and day/night? Why don't you come out and straight away state what you believe is the 'Truth'?
According to Islam, the 'Truth' is centered around the first part of the shahadah, "There is no god (deity) except Allah (The God)." This concept is illustrated in surah Al-Ikhlas 112:1-4 "Say: He is Allah, the One and Only; Allah, the Eternal, Absolute; He begets not, nor is He begotten; and there is none like unto Him." The rest of the shahadah "Muhammad is the messenger of Allah" can be illustrated by Surah Al-Imran 3:31 Say: "If you love Allah, then follow me (Muhammad): Allah will love you and forgive you your sins: For Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful."
My perception of what you write is captured by the last part of John 8:31-32 without your ever stating what the teachings of Jesus are or what the 'Truth' is. John 8:31-32 "To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” For that matter I don't remember you quoting from the Bible to support any of your points. Could it be that your beliefs aren't based on the Bible, but rather on 'The Church'? I grew up as a Protestant, Baptist to be exact, and my fundamental belief then was "Jesus was the only begotten Son of God, that he died on the cross as the only acceptable sacrifice to redeem man from his sin and sinful nature, that he was buried, that he was resurrected from the dead and that whoever believes these things and accepts Jesus as his personal Saviour will be saved from the Hellfire."
I know a few Catholics and in speaking with them I have come to the understanding that they believe that there is no salvation outside of the Catholic Church. The focus is less on a personal relationship with God through Jesus and more a reliance upon the Church and adherence to its Sacraments. My perception is that the Protestant faith is centered around John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." and that Catholicism is based on Matthew 16:18-19 "And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”
My understanding of the central 'Truth' on which the afore mentioned religions are based without which there is no salvation can be encapsulated as:
Islam - the Oneness of God and Muhammad was his Messenger
Protestant - Jesus was the Son of God and God incarnate and that he died on the cross for man's redemption
Catholic - the one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church
The Quran itself speaks of truth and falsehood as you are so fond of doing. A few pertinent ayat from the Quran:
Al-Anbiyah 21:18 Nay, but We hurl the truth against falsehood, and it breaks its head and lo! falsehood perishes. And woe unto you for that which you ascribe (unto Him).
Al-Imran 3:70-713 O People of the Scripture! (Jews and Christians) Why do you disbelieve in the revelations of Allah, when you bear witness (to their truth)? "O People of the Scripture! Why do you confound truth with falsehood and knowingly conceal the truth?"
I challenge you, if you are a truthful person, to speak as clearly as I have written with quotes from the Bible to support your specific points. What is the Truth according to Amigo?
According to Islam, the 'Truth' is centered around the first part of the shahadah, "There is no god (deity) except Allah (The God)." This concept is illustrated in surah Al-Ikhlas 112:1-4 "Say: He is Allah, the One and Only; Allah, the Eternal, Absolute; He begets not, nor is He begotten; and there is none like unto Him." The rest of the shahadah "Muhammad is the messenger of Allah" can be illustrated by Surah Al-Imran 3:31 Say: "If you love Allah, then follow me (Muhammad): Allah will love you and forgive you your sins: For Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful."
My perception of what you write is captured by the last part of John 8:31-32 without your ever stating what the teachings of Jesus are or what the 'Truth' is. John 8:31-32 "To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” For that matter I don't remember you quoting from the Bible to support any of your points. Could it be that your beliefs aren't based on the Bible, but rather on 'The Church'? I grew up as a Protestant, Baptist to be exact, and my fundamental belief then was "Jesus was the only begotten Son of God, that he died on the cross as the only acceptable sacrifice to redeem man from his sin and sinful nature, that he was buried, that he was resurrected from the dead and that whoever believes these things and accepts Jesus as his personal Saviour will be saved from the Hellfire."
I know a few Catholics and in speaking with them I have come to the understanding that they believe that there is no salvation outside of the Catholic Church. The focus is less on a personal relationship with God through Jesus and more a reliance upon the Church and adherence to its Sacraments. My perception is that the Protestant faith is centered around John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." and that Catholicism is based on Matthew 16:18-19 "And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”
My understanding of the central 'Truth' on which the afore mentioned religions are based without which there is no salvation can be encapsulated as:
Islam - the Oneness of God and Muhammad was his Messenger
Protestant - Jesus was the Son of God and God incarnate and that he died on the cross for man's redemption
Catholic - the one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church
The Quran itself speaks of truth and falsehood as you are so fond of doing. A few pertinent ayat from the Quran:
Al-Anbiyah 21:18 Nay, but We hurl the truth against falsehood, and it breaks its head and lo! falsehood perishes. And woe unto you for that which you ascribe (unto Him).
Al-Imran 3:70-713 O People of the Scripture! (Jews and Christians) Why do you disbelieve in the revelations of Allah, when you bear witness (to their truth)? "O People of the Scripture! Why do you confound truth with falsehood and knowingly conceal the truth?"
I challenge you, if you are a truthful person, to speak as clearly as I have written with quotes from the Bible to support your specific points. What is the Truth according to Amigo?
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I speak with clarity, the truth of your day to day life experience is enough support to what I say.
When you walk in truth, you walk in evidences. When you avoid truth, you also avoid evidence. If you lie to your wife, you will have no knowledge and no evidence of what happens if you tell her the truth. Therefore, you should not be telling those who did not lie to their wives to produce evidence for you about what happens when they don't lie. They can only give you reports, not evidence. No one can give you evidence but Truth itself.
Truth is always good news, truth in all times means full good news; full Gospel. Whenever you choose falsehood, any falsehood, you cut yourself off from your share in truth/Gospel. Truth knows no falsehood but is pure. If you want to know the pure Gospel, persevere in the truth. When you choose a falsehood, there are those who stay and persevere still in truth, they have evidence you don't have and can not have for you are outside of truth. Also as long as you hold to your falsehood, you can not receive those evidence because evidences can not hold in falsehood, so it is futile to ask for evidence while you are in falsehood/darkness, even though they be with you, you can not see them.
When you walk in truth, you walk in evidences. When you avoid truth, you also avoid evidence. If you lie to your wife, you will have no knowledge and no evidence of what happens if you tell her the truth. Therefore, you should not be telling those who did not lie to their wives to produce evidence for you about what happens when they don't lie. They can only give you reports, not evidence. No one can give you evidence but Truth itself.
Truth is always good news, truth in all times means full good news; full Gospel. Whenever you choose falsehood, any falsehood, you cut yourself off from your share in truth/Gospel. Truth knows no falsehood but is pure. If you want to know the pure Gospel, persevere in the truth. When you choose a falsehood, there are those who stay and persevere still in truth, they have evidence you don't have and can not have for you are outside of truth. Also as long as you hold to your falsehood, you can not receive those evidence because evidences can not hold in falsehood, so it is futile to ask for evidence while you are in falsehood/darkness, even though they be with you, you can not see them.
Ali_008
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Amigo, you've taken the permission to lie to the spouse totally wrong and you are utterly blowing it out of proportion. It's like you were looking for something to keep jumping on about Islam and your rabid research gave you zero results except this one law. I've mentioned in another thread, directed at you, that if the lie has haraam motives then that lie is considered a sin. As simple as that. Outside of marriage, even the "lies-that-don't-harm-anyone" are not allowed. Lying in all forms is forbidden.
The only lies that can be uttered are concerning matters that will forever remain between man and wife. Those matters don't concern anyone else and hence nobody is allowed to even get curious about it. Marriage is the most intimate bond on earth. It's a union for an entire lifetime and it not a cakewalk either. It requires commitment and effort to keep it fruitful.
If I say to my wife, whenever I look at you, all my worries disappear. Will that be a lie? Well, yes because the worries will only vanish when I deal with them. But does that sound like a lie to you? Does that sound like robbing a fellow human of the right to knowledge of truth?
Similar "lies" common amongst couples:
"I will love you till death and beyond".
"I'm nothing without you".
"You are my sunshine".
"You've stolen my heart".
"I'll get the stars for you".
"I'll go crazy without you".
And once again Amigo, nobody here is interested in your own philosophy. We are Muslims, we seek truth with proof. Waste neither your nor our time with your blabbering.
P.S. - Your siding with truth is so bleak as you yourself keep lying about "seeing" Christ.
The only lies that can be uttered are concerning matters that will forever remain between man and wife. Those matters don't concern anyone else and hence nobody is allowed to even get curious about it. Marriage is the most intimate bond on earth. It's a union for an entire lifetime and it not a cakewalk either. It requires commitment and effort to keep it fruitful.
If I say to my wife, whenever I look at you, all my worries disappear. Will that be a lie? Well, yes because the worries will only vanish when I deal with them. But does that sound like a lie to you? Does that sound like robbing a fellow human of the right to knowledge of truth?
Similar "lies" common amongst couples:
"I will love you till death and beyond".
"I'm nothing without you".
"You are my sunshine".
"You've stolen my heart".
"I'll get the stars for you".
"I'll go crazy without you".
And once again Amigo, nobody here is interested in your own philosophy. We are Muslims, we seek truth with proof. Waste neither your nor our time with your blabbering.
P.S. - Your siding with truth is so bleak as you yourself keep lying about "seeing" Christ.
Akhi, you are exactly correct. I presented my understanding of Truth to him and he replied with his typical gobbledy-gook riddles refusing to answer my simple question, "What is the Truth according to Amigo?" It is obvious that he is not here to discuss anything with anyone in a respectable, straight forward way. He has shown that he does not deserve the respect and decency that we have shown him. I will no longer read or reply to anything he says because he is now on my ignore list.
Those who are committed to pure truth see him as well.
Marriage is sacred indeed. True marriage is build on intimate truths. Intimate lies make the opposite; false marriage. It is the truth which validates everything, otherwhise they are not worthy being recognized as true, therefore not valid. And this is the Christian Faith, that Jesus is the truth and that whenever people desert truth, they desert Jesus. Wether it be out of fear or out of lusts, this is the Gethsemane moment when people make decision to follow Jesus or to desert him. Some desert him out of fear of suffering, others out of seeing truth as a weak force and preffering lies. In both cases, they will not know what happens beyone Gethsemane. Only those who stay with the truth will know. Only those who stay with the truth will have evidence of what happens beyond that point. It is futile for those who desert truth to ask for evidence, for evidence can not leave the realm of truth as it is part of it.
People condemned and killed Jesus because he is the truth and people are accustomed to killing the truth whenever it is making them unconfortable. Anyone who is commited to the truth has already evidence for this. And those who wants evidence, all they have to do is to commit seriously.
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Ali_008
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Jesus came with the truth. I agree to that. I love him, I respect him and I wish to be with him someday in heaven inshAllah but your philosophy serves no purpose. I've proved in the past with your posts as to how you keep contradicting yourself. And when questioned about it, all you have is even more contradictions. Asking you anything is drawing water from a mirage because your points are every time so pointless. You have never ever been able to prove even a single thing which you jabber to be the truth. Nobody here agrees with what you say. You might have made some negligible points which are compatible with the Qur'an (accidentally) but apart from that what you say is nothing. It is worthless. You don't have any backing for your claims. We don't believe you but we will, I say it again, WE WILL only if you can convince us with logical and physical proofs, inshAllah. Not your "amigolosophy" which according to me is a bigger waste of time than Satanism and I say that because at least Satan is real. Amigo, I won't give up replying to your posts, inshAllah, but I just want to warn you that by being so hollow you're only embarrassing yourself.
Btw, from your last post, do you mean to say that anyone who has used those "lies" in his/her marriage to express his affection is building a false marriage?
Btw, from your last post, do you mean to say that anyone who has used those "lies" in his/her marriage to express his affection is building a false marriage?
Pygoscelis
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Perhaps english is not your first language? The above is pretty incoherent. I can't figure out what you are trying to say.
ariginality
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From all of your posts Amigo, I can conclude that I've never seen someone talk so much and say so little. You talk about truth and evidence abstractly and bring none to the table, there's no substance. Furthermore, I can conclude that either you're single, not happy in your relationship, delusional, and/or a liar. But I am not here for relationship counseling so I will stop there.
mg:A thought occurred to me that Christian reliance upon believing that Jesus was God incarnate and their accepting of his sacrifice on the cross for their salvation is a lot like the "Get Out of Jail Free" card in the board game Monopoly. They point to us Muslims as trying to earn our way to Heaven with our good deeds, but they don't see that we rather rely upon the mercy of Allah and His forgiveness for our salvation. The bottom line is which has merit with Allah, 1) testimony that there is no god except Allah and Muhammad is His messenger, or 2) acceptance of Jesus as as God and as one's personal saviour?
