ban on men in lingerie shops

[~Zaria~]

No actually provided proof from Sunnah or Quran about women forbidden to work outside medicine, education blah blah! Zaria! You managed to helped yourself, oh I work in medicine, so I am okay but sisters that work else where are not okay?

You are ALL so bias. I work outside medicine, education etc, and I will continue to do so!


btw there are a lot of women that are begging in the street of Saudi Arabia! IF they allow them to apply these jobs, it may help a lot of family out of poverty!

Urgh I hate this forum so much!

Assalamu-alaikum sister,

Please calm down.

It truly is not my intention to insult or disparage anyone here - so I apologise if it seems that way.

What I have stated is in line with the rulings of many muftis (as has been posted by brother 'Abd-al Latif ) - its not just a personal opinion.

Also, no one has said it is 'haraam' to work in other fields.
It is simply advised that as far as is possible - women should not seek employment in these sorts of fields (and there is wisdom behind this.....)

And I do realise that many women have no option but to work - out of pure necessity......that they are somewhat forced to go out and work alongside men - to put a plate of food on the table each day.

Hence my second post:

^ I just want to add to the above,

that if a woman is working out of necessity (i.e she does not have a husband/ mahram to support her; to feed her kids; etc) - then, Alhamdulillah - this is fine.....that she goes out to work, observing full hijab and doing her best to limit her interaction between the sexes.

I do not wish to generalise to all women, and I realise that everyone faces their own challenges in life.

My point to this is simply, that we should not be ENCOURAGING women to work in these fields - as if she is entitled to do so.

At the end of the day - we should not forget our primary roles and duties in life.


Salaam

However: if employment is not out of necessity (i.e a women has a husband/ mahram that is supporting her) and not out of serving a vital need in the community (where it is preferably performed by a female).......then I ask: why are we leaving the safety of our homes, our roles as full-time wives and mums to go out and work?

So that we feel 'liberated'?

If only we can remember: a womens most important responsibilty is towards her husband and family.
Everything else takes 2nd place to this.

(And this applies to myself as well, (if i find myself in marriage one day, insha Allah) - even though i am in a 'nurturing' field).

Salaam

 

[Rhubarb Tart]

Give me proof where Islam says women are banned from owning her own business, becoming a cleaners or becoming a scientists! Btw just like some men are not cut out to teachers, some women are also not cut out to be teachers either!

Some are have the skills and intelligence to scientist, some want to own their extra income and feel they are not capable of being a teacher, doctor etc BUT they are able to work as cleaner! Who the hell are you or anyone else to tell them they shouldn’t?

 

['Abd-al Latif]

My point is women are already banned to have certain jobs like military, judges and leader of a country in Islam! BUT they are not banned to becoming scientists, business women, cleaners or any other job outside Education and Medicine! Why dont you ask a scholar whether a woman can become a Scientists or cleaner?

You're stilling missing my point.

Is there a need for them there?

The discussing of leaders in Islam has already preceded once before. It is Islamically forbidden for women to be leaders in such a position.

 

[Rhubarb Tart]

Ill asks you something, when you want to go a swimming pool. Who is going to be your lifeguard?


When you want to go aboard with your husband or brother, who will carry out your security check?


When you want to go to the gym and want to have a trainer? Who will train you?

When you want to but some clothes or measured for some clothes, who will assist you and measure you?


When you want to eat outside in restaurant in women section, who will serve you?

Who will do those things for you in Islamic society?

A man or woman! Btw NOTICE how these jobs are not necessity or any nature field of a woman!

 

[Jedi_Mindset]

You simply can't understand don't you?

What Sis zaria means is that women shouldn't be out of their home without protector, a women can indeed start a own clinic or company, but best is not far from home. And she needs to OBEY yes OBEY her husband. For a wife- jannah lays under your husbands feet. If her husband is right, she needs to obey him.

And now regarding to jobs, women aren't supposed to work in areas with mixed genders. this is simply to prevent fitnah as shaytaan is always the one who can ruin it. for a women its best to start her business at home or atleast close by. to prevent going out alone, or mixing with other genders.

 

['Abd-al Latif]

Thread closed on a temporary basis.

I will only reopen this thread if the original poster requests it to be reopen. Until then, relax.

I want every single contributor of this thread to see what each one of us is trying to say as opposed to what you want to see.

In the mean time:

 

['Abd-al Latif]

:salamext:

I hope everybody had a kit-kat, a well deserved break and is now ready to turn over a new leaf and start fresh. The thread has been re-opened upon the thread starter's request.

In case any sisters feel a rush of excitement upon seeing this thread re-opened, they should prick themselves with the pins from their hijab to keep calm and brothers should borrow the hijab pins from their (blood) sisters if they feel the same. I've got an impatient finger hovering over the big, scary red button for anyone who turns sour.

Keep calm people and behave yourselves!

 

[GuestFellow]

You simply can't understand don't you?

What Sis zaria means is that women shouldn't be out of their home without protector, a women can indeed start a own clinic or company, but best is not far from home. And she needs to OBEY yes OBEY her husband. For a wife- jannah lays under your husbands feet. If her husband is right, she needs to obey him.

And now regarding to jobs, women aren't supposed to work in areas with mixed genders. this is simply to prevent fitnah as shaytaan is always the one who can ruin it. for a women its best to start her business at home or atleast close by. to prevent going out alone, or mixing with other genders.

The workplace has gone safer, depending on where you live. So a women can open her own business without worrying about being in danger. It is not about how far you have to travel. It is about the method of transport. Using a car is much safer than using public transport which is used by men and women (of course, this is debatable). Besides, both men and women can be in danger and this risk will always exist.

All jobs, in some ways require to communicate with the opposite gender. I have female clients calling me and I simply have to address their concerns. As long as you get the job done and do not have any sort of relationship with the opposite gender, then your fine.

Overall, what your suggesting is not practicable now. What we need is practicable solutions.

 

[GuestFellow]

Is there a need for them there?

Salaam,

Yes, we need female business leaders to deal with female customers.

 

[CosmicPathos]

The workplace has gone safer, depending on where you live. So a women can open her own business without worrying about being in danger. It is not about how far you have to travel. It is about the method of transport. Using a car is much safer than using public transport which is used by men and women (of course, this is debatable). Besides, both men and women can be in danger and this risk will always exist.

All jobs, in some ways require to communicate with the opposite gender. I have female clients calling me and I simply have to address their concerns. As long as you get the job done and do not have any sort of relationship with the opposite gender, then your fine.

Overall, what your suggesting is not practicable now. What we need is practicable solutions.

I dont think its only about female's safety. Even though work environemnts are safer, is shaytan safer and less devilish too? The point is you cant work in mixed environment as a female or as a male. So one should back out, and that is females, since males are by nature made to work and earn in society.

 

[GuestFellow]

Salaam,

Give me proof where Islam says women are banned from owning her own business, becoming a cleaners or becoming a scientists! Btw just like some men are not cut out to teachers, some women are also not cut out to be teachers either!

Some are have the skills and intelligence to scientist, some want to own their extra income and feel they are not capable of being a teacher, doctor etc BUT they are able to work as cleaner! Who the hell are you or anyone else to tell them they shouldn’t?

I agree.

We need female business leaders to deal with female customers and even boost the economy.

It is simply advised that as far as is possible - women should not seek employment in these sorts of fields (and there is wisdom behind this.....)

What wisdom are we speaking of here? Which fields are you referring to?

However: if employment is not out of necessity (i.e a women has a husband/ mahram that is supporting her) and not out of serving a vital need in the community (where it is preferably performed by a female).......then I ask: why are we leaving the safety of our homes, our roles as full-time wives and mums to go out and work?

In the UK, it is generally safe to leave your house.

[/QUOTE]
So that we feel 'liberated'?[/QUOTE]

This has nothing to do with being liberated. For some women, sitting at home all day is boring. If they have useful skills, then why not use it? Many Muslim women are using their talents to help their community.

Overall, yes married women should look after their husband and children. If they have the time, if it is safe to travel and the husband grants permission, then they should be allowed to work.

 

[GuestFellow]

I dont think its only about female's safety. Even though work environemnts are safer, is shaytan safer and less devilish too? The point is you cant work in mixed environment as a female or as a male. So one should back out, and that is females, since males are by nature made to work and earn in society.

Salaam,

Again what you are suggesting is impracticable. There are going to be instances when men and women will mix, like in hospitals. For example, I was working at a law firm and we needed a specialist to help our client. The only specialist that was available happened to be a women. My firm needed her services and so we asked her to write a report. There was no male specialist available that would be able to help our firm. We cannot abandon our client, otherwise...we'll get sued. ;D

Islam has a dress code. As long as men and women cover up, that's fine. If they are not covered up, lower your gaze.

I'm aware the Shaytan is finding ways to make people commit sins. He will find new ways to achieve this. This will always be the case, even in an Islamic state. That does not mean women are not allowed to work. Who is going to serve female customers?

 

[CosmicPathos]

Again what you are suggesting is impracticable. There are going to be instances when men and women will mix, like in hospitals. For example, I was working at a law firm and we needed a specialist to help our client. The only specialist that was available happened to be a women. My firm needed her services and so we asked her to write a report. There was no male specialist available that would be able to help our firm. We cannot abandon our client, otherwise...we'll get sued.

Well that is valid and I understand that but such cases are exactly the reason why we should make it more practical and have more male specialists so that such mixing can be prevented in the future by providing specialist services of same gender. :S

 

[GuestFellow]

Well that is valid and I understand that but such cases are exactly the reason why we should make it more practical and have more male specialists so that such mixing can be prevented in the future by providing specialist services of same gender. :S

How? Are you going to launch a campaign to persuade for men to specialise in particular areas? What if this does not work?

 

[CosmicPathos]

How? Are you going to launch a campaign to persuade for men to specialise in particular areas? What if this does not work?

Why wont it work? Financial incentives, economy is down, everyone is willing to do anything as long there is $ in it. Are there any jobs in the world that men dont do? Except pregnancy. ooh, even that was done by a man.

 

[Salahudeen]

In Islam the burden of providing falls upon the man so I think when there's not enough jobs to go round for everyone, men should be given priority over women for jobs, unless the woman is happy to forfeit her right to be provided for :hmm:

Because the man requires the job/salary in order to get married so he can provide for his family, but what would the woman require the salary for? is she required to support a family financially? that's the logic behind it.

And give all the jobs that involve interacting with females on a regular basis to women specifically. Make those jobs not even available to men.

Also there could be an entire sector for female jobs such as nurse, beautician, and other sectors that were specifically for men. But this would involve separating jobs into two categories, male jobs and female jobs, and someone would have to define which is which lol.


there's my whacky theory ;D

 

[Darth Ultor]

Taking care of the husband and kids is all well and good but what if the woman is not married and her parents are in perfect health? Both working and the daughter has finished her education.

 

[GuestFellow]

Why wont it work? Financial incentives, economy is down, everyone is willing to do anything as long there is $ in it. Are there any jobs in the world that men dont do? Except pregnancy. ooh, even that was done by a man.

Salaam,

Do you think most men will be eager to work as a midwife?

I never said it will not work. I said, what if it does not work. For example, you can launch a campaign persuading men to work in health care. However, this may not work because some men would rather work in engineering or accounts. There is no guarantee this will work for several reasons such as failing to pass medical exams, not having enough experience, to expensive or other areas may be seen as more profitable and stable.

I'm just saying, you have no alternative plan. If it does work, great. Now you got to make men specialise in other areas to like law, accounts, actuarial, insurance, financial advise, fashion, marketing, administration, education and I can go on forever.

The point is there will always be some areas dominated by a particular gender. As long as this exists, free mixing at the workplace will exist. Some areas, free mixing will be required more than others.

 

[Darth Ultor]

Can somebody please answer me?

 

[Salahudeen]

Taking care of the husband and kids is all well and good but what if the woman is not married and her parents are in perfect health? Both working and the daughter has finished her education.

Yeah, my theory could only apply to married individuals i.e a married woman applies for a job, and a non married man applies for the job, priority is given to the man.

Or a complete segregation of jobs based on gender, i.e only women can apply to be nurses and other female jobs, and only men can apply to join the army and other male jobs. That could work maybe :hmm: