Why British Muslim women struggle to find a marriage partner

[Salahudeen]

I'm just wondering, how big was the house of the prophet (saw), compared to the average house today?

 

[Hamza Asadullah]

And the new trend is also bringing with it wider issues of divorce, incompatibility etc. Let us not become arrogant and call our parents and their generation backward just cuz we think/feel that we are open-minded just because we have grown up in the country/cultures of kufaar and can speak better English than our parents.

There is nothing wrong in our parents generation in having a preferance of their children marrying into the same race but when it becomes a strict rule that they must do so and that under no circumstances they must marry any other race then that is contrary to Islam. If the person is pious and has good character then it is wrong for anyone to reject them.

In the time of the Prophet (Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam) a man approached the Prophet asking him to recommend him someone for his daughter. The Prophet (Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam) said to him what about Bilal? The man repeated again find me someone for my daughter and the Prophet (Sallallahu alaihi wasallam) repeated the same again.

What is even worse about the deeply rooted cultural restrictions many parents place on the children is that they cannot marry out of their cast. This caste system comes from Hinduism but it is still deeply rooted in many of our cultures. It is clrarly contray to Islam to force ones children to only marry in the same caste.

Another deeply rooted backward cultural practise is forced marriage. Using blackmail to force ones son or daughter to marry someone within the family. I personally know many people this has happenefd to and they are living miserable lives.

So there is nothing wrong with having a preferance but our preferance should not be forced upon our children because forcing marital pteferances upon them is contrary to Islamic teachings. I hope such backward cultural practises are eradicated in our generations.

 

[ardianto]

I'm just wondering, how big was the house of the prophet (saw), compared to the average house today?

Watch this video

 

[Salahudeen]

I don't think there's anything wrong with have preferences based on grounds of compatibility, i.e a father may say I want my daughter to marry someone from this race because they'd be more compatible with each and have better understanding of each other due to their similarities, when I was young I used to want to marry caucasian woman lol but as I grew up I realized I would not be compatible at all with one because of the totally different up bringing, my family would let me marry out if I wanted to but I foresee problems now so I have preference for my own race as a result. I don't see what's wrong with that, its about what you think your compatible with. The issue isn't race, its compatibility. I still prefer caucasian women but the chances of finding one I'm compatible with are very slim, so I know its not wise to go down that road. thats not racism :hmm:

 

[Hamza Asadullah]

I don't think there's anything wrong with have preferences based on grounds of compatibility, i.e a father may say I want my daughter to marry someone from this race because they'd be more compatible with each and have better understanding of each other due to their similarities, when I was young I used to want to marry caucasian woman lol but as I grew up I realized I would not be compatible at all with one because of the totally different up bringing, my family would let me marry out if I wanted to but I foresee problems now so I have preference for my own race as a result. I don't see what's wrong with that, its about what you think your compatible with. The issue isn't race, its compatibility. I still prefer caucasian women but the chances of finding one I'm compatible with are very slim, so I know its not wise to go down that road. thats not racism :hmm:

As mentioned in my previous post preferance is fine and I am sure most of us have preferances but parents forcing their sons or daughters not to marry a pious person ojust because they are of another caste, region, nationality or race is contrary to Islamic teachings and is unacceptable.

There are so many unhappy people out there who have been forced to marry people they did not want to. There are also so many others who have been given so many restrictions on who they can and cant marry that they are still in their 30's unmarried.

So its fine having preferances but dont force it upon your children where you would go to the extent of disowning them if they married "out of the caste", because that is the extent many parents will go to just because their children married out of their own particular caste.

So I am all for preferances of same race or ationality but totally against forced marriages against ones will and rejecting good pious rishtha based upon caste, nationality or race.

 

[Salahudeen]

As mentioned in my previous post preferance is fine and I am sure most of us have preferances but parents forcing their sons or daughters not to marry a pious person of another race based upon grounds of race is contrary to Islamic teachings and is unacceptable.

Yes the child's opinion plays a big part in determining compatibility, after all he/she is the one that is going to have to live with the person, so I don't think the child's opinion should be disregarded instead it should be valued unless you want the marriage to end in divorce. But I suppose the counter argument would be that the child is foolish and young and doesn't realise what he/she is compatible with till they're at least 24 and anything before that is just lustful thinking and desires talking. I mean its only now I'm starting to realize what I want, its changed from what I thought I wanted when I was 16-22. But then I guess you have to let your kid make his/her own mistakes sometimes because if you don't they'll end up resenting you for not letting them have the life they want. :hmm:


My grandad placed the same condition that you mentioned in your last post on all his kids, and now they're all old an un-married and they hate him and blame him for ruining their lives cos they're all un-married. Even though he's changed his views now, when he was young he said they have to be same cast, same village, same race, etc

 

[Hamza Asadullah]

Yes the child's opinion plays a big part in determining compatibility, after all he/she is the one that is going to have to live with the person, so I don't think the child's opinion should be disregarded instead it should be valued unless you want the marriage to end in divorce. But I suppose the counter argument would be that the child is foolish and young and doesn't realise what he/she is compatible with till they're at least 24 and anything before that is just lustful thinking and desires talking. But then I guess you have to let your kid make his/her own mistakes sometimes because if you don't they'll end up resenting you for not letting them have the life they want. :hmm:

I have many close friends who were forced to marry girls within the family because they went along with what their parents wanted. They had no choice in the matter. They could not reject the rishtha and now they live in resentment and they say to me that they would never do towards their children what their parents did to them.

So find good rishtha for your sons and daughters based upon ones preferance like same race, nationality or caste, thats fine but if you, your son or daughter or anyone else happened to come across someone with piety and good character that you know will be good for your son or daughter then they should not be rejected due to race, nationality or caste but they should be at least given a chance and then one can make isthikhara and ask Allah to do what is best.

Unfortunately a lot of the times selfishness comes into it where parents are only concerned with what other people may think and they are only concerned with their "honour", and not with what is best for their son or daughter.

 

[Salahudeen]

I have many close friends who were forced to marry girls within the family because they went along with what their parents wanted. They had no choice in the matter. They could not reject the rishtha and now they live in resentment and they say to me that they would never do towards their children what their parents did to them.

So find good rishtha for your sons and daughters based upon ones preferance like same race, nationality or caste, thats fine but if you, your son or daughter or anyone else happened to come across someone with piety and good character that you know will be good for your son or daughter then they should not be rejected due to race, nationality or caste but they should be at least given a chance and then one can make isthikhara and ask Allah to do what is best.

Unfortunately a lot of the times selfishness comes into it where parents are only concerned with what other people may think and they are only concerned with their "honour", and not with what is best for their son or daughter.

Yeah you see that's the dangerous thing about trying to control your kids life, they will end up resenting you, you have to let them make their own decisions sometimes and then just be there to comfort them if things go wrong, my aunties and uncles are the same, they don't talk to their father because of it. :hmm: I don't know how to reconcile them because they hate him and blame him for everything that went wrong in their life.

 

[joyous fairy]

You have points that are not irrational. But I do not think you are adding to genetic diversity by marrying someone else from other ethnicity. I think you have provided no evidence for that.

Pakis thinking they are the only Muslims? That is surprising to me. Growing up in a Pakistani society, I never got that impression. Pakistanis, in general, are more aware of the diversity of Muslims from all over the world, and more accepting of it, at least more than Gulf Arabs. Recently, the Greek Muslim Hamza Tzortzis went to Pakistan, and Pakistanis really welcomed him with open arms.

Most importantly, when you give daughter to someone from other culture, it essentially means that your grand child will adopt most cultural values of their father. That is unacceptable to me to have grand children who are not related to my race/culture etc. It basically means that your culture will die out and grand children wont be able to carry it on. Now that is a haunting thought for any grand father to have his legacy wiped out just cuz his daughter liked someone else outside the ethnicity!!

I dont need to give evidence for something that is this clear. Im talking about mixed race kids. If a Pakistani marries say an African, for example, the kids they have will be half and half, or dont you agree with that?

Secondly, I didnt say ALL Pakistanis think that, I was speaking in terms of some young kids. If they are only interacting with people from their own background then they are more likely to be confused about the diversity of the Muslims and the rest of the world.

And I dont think your culture would die out if you let your daughter marry from another culture. Lol. And anyway, wouldnt it be better if they adopted a culture that was based on Islam and the country they are living in? I think so.

 

[CosmicPathos]

If the person is pious and has good character then it is wrong for anyone to reject them.

This is so wrong.

Umar bin Khattab (ra) asked for the hand of Umm Kalthoom, youngest daughter of Abu Bakr (ra), in marriage, and she refused for a trivial reason that "his lifestyle is harsh." So she refused a pious and a good character sahaabi and who is also an ameer ul mumineen, and it was acceptable and no one called her a kaafir. So what makes you say that one cannot refuse a pious suitor whom the father/wali is not comfortable with, especially when the issue is as big as racial and cultural differences which some ppl understandably so do not want to deal with??

 

[CosmicPathos]

Parents do tend to pass on that mentality to their kids.

My parents did not pass on that mentality. But they did make sure they pass on the mentality that if I have to choose between my parents or my wife, i choose my parents. If situations come in my life where I cannot fulfill rights of my wife, I have the option to divorce her. Fair enough, God wont punish me for not fulfilling her rights since she wont be my wife anymore and I would have divorced her. I cannot "divorce" my parents.

 

[Hamza Asadullah]

This is so wrong.

Umar bin Khattab (ra) asked for the hand of Umm Kalthoom, youngest daughter of Abu Bakr (ra), in marriage, and she refused for a trivial reason that "his lifestyle is harsh." So she refused a pious and a good character sahaabi and who is also an ameer ul mumineen, and it was acceptable and no one called her a kaafir. So what makes you say that one cannot refuse a pious suitor whom the father/wali is not comfortable with, especially when the issue is as big as racial and cultural differences which some ppl understandably so do not want to deal with??

You quoting a hadith out of context is also wrong. It is a well known for that although Umar Bin Khattab (ra) was among the best of men he was also quite a strong and harsh in character. So you could say his character was just not for everyone.

But our discussion is in the context of marrying a pious who is of piety and good character but the only thing standing in his way is that he is of different caste, nationality or race. To this the Prophet (Sallallahu alaihi wasallam) said:

The Prophet (Sallallahu alaihi wasallam) said:

“When someone with whose religion and character you are satisfied asks your daughter in marriage, accede to his request. If you do not do so, there will be temptation on Earth and extensive corruption.“

[Tirmidhi, Nasa'i & Ibn Majah]



Bilals marriage had been arranged by the Holy Prophet (Sallallahu alaihi wasallam) himself. It is a well known fact that he was previously a black slave and at the time there was a lot of jahilliyya (ignorance) and many people looked down upon him because of this. But caste, nationality or race did not prevent the Prophet (Sallallahu alaihi wasallam) from recommending him for marriage.

It is stated that the sons of Abul Bukair one day came to the Holy Prophet (Sallallahu alaihi wasallam) and said, "0 Messenger of Allah, find a match for our sister. "The Prophet (Sallallahu Alaihi wasallam) observe, "Why do you not marry her to Bilal Hearing this they went back, but after a few days they came again and repeated the same request, and the Holy Prophet (S.A.W.) gave the same reply. Thus after a few days they came third time with the same request. This time also the Prophet (S.A.W.) giving the same reply added, "Bilal is an inmate of Paradise; you should marry your sister to him." So, having heard the Prophets advice, they married their sister to Bilal.

So as I have mentioned before it is fine to have a preferance so look for a man of piety and good character from your own caste, region and race but if you, your son, daughter or anyone else were to show you a person of piety and good character then there is no reason to reject such a proposal just on grounds of race, nationality or region. Then it would be that you are only concerned about what others may think and you would clearly only be thinking about your own selfish reasons not what is best for your son or daughter. If you wanted what was best for your son or daughter then you would marry them to a person of piety and good character regardless of the caste, nationality or race.

 

[~Zaria~]

Assalamu-alaikum,

I think it is really sad to completely 'write off' other races and ethnicities, simply because of differences in color/ culture.....or whatever reason one may have.

This is generalising/stereotyping groups of people - without giving a particular individual the chance to prove his own worth, his own character and taqwa.

Do we forget that we are ALL equal in the sight of our Creator?
What differentiates us is our piety.....not our wealth, our cuture, our life-styles, or our family backgrounds?


Allah (SWT) says "O Mankind! We have created you from a male and female, and made you into nations and tribes, that you may know one another. Verily, the most honorable of you in the sight of Allah is he who has most Taqwa among of you. Verily, Allah is All-Knowing, All-Aware." (Qur'an 49:13)

"There is no superiority of an Arab over a non-Arab, nor of a non-Arab over an Arab or white person over a black person or a black person over white person except through piety. Verily the most honored of you is the most righteous."
(Musnad Ahmad)

Why do we find it so difficult to accept others, from other racial groups openly into our families?
Are we not all brothers and sisters in Islam?

Too often, we have been 'indoctrinated' by our elders and members in our communites that we should ONLY seek marriage to those from our own ethnicities.
And as mentioned - yes, it is ok to have personal preferences......but this should not limit our vision to such an extent, that we will not even CONSIDER someone who falls outside of our race.

Each person is unique.
And while his upbringing, culture and family is indeed influential in ones life.......it is a mans/ womens taqwa and imaan that should matter.

If a pious man, of another ethnicity asks for your daughter in marriage - and she is agreeable......why do we not leave the rest to Allah (subhanawata'ala)?
Why dont we turn to him in Istikaraah salaah and seek His guidance?

Of course, this does not guarantee a successful marriage (Allah alone knows best).......but we need to ask ourselves - what more do we want?

Salaam

 

[Reflections]

Of course, this does not guarantee a successful marriage (Allah alone knows best).......but we need to ask ourselves - what more do we want?

Well there we go..we never do know that it will be a successful marriage but you leave it in Allah (swt)'s hands and always pray for a prosperous marriage. And I do strongly feel that it isn't correct to turn down a proposal based on the race/nationality etc of a person disregarding that they have their deen, akhlaaq and so forth. My personal preference was someone who was from the same culture as me because I would find it easier as he would have the same views as me, wouldn't have culture clashes or the both of us wouldn't have the difficulty to adapt to each others lifestyle because of different cultural upbringing, however having said that it doesn't mean any one else who is from a different culture isn't as worthy because at the end of the day it boils down to the taqwa/emaan/akhlaaq of a person. We're muslims before labeling ourselves to anything else.

 

[CosmicPathos]

Then it would be that you are only concerned about what others may think and you would clearly only be thinking about your own selfish reasons not what is best for your son or daughter. If you wanted what was best for your son or daughter then you would marry them to a person of piety and good character regardless of the caste, nationality or race.

This is blatant generalization. It does not logically follow that if you want best for your children then you will do whatever the child wishes as opposed to what your wishes are. Wrong.

Either way, we are rejecting people for one reason or another. If I follow your reasoning, it seems you agree that it is okay to reject a suitor if you do not mentally go along with them, right? How is that different from my reason that it is okay to reject a suitor if someone deos not culturally go along with them? At what point does "incompatibility" in life styles, as you so vividly pointed out the harshness of Umar (ra), take precedence over other concerns such as culture/language/expectations etc!

Please, Muhammad pbuh is not alive today. He had some knowledge of ilm al gaib given to him by Allah and he hence asked some ppl to give theri daughter to Bilal. Plus it is Prophet, his request is different from a request that a suitor makes 1500 years later. If I had a daughter, I'd give it to whoever if Prophet asked me too. Prophet pbuh is not alive today so dont use faulty examples.

 

[CosmicPathos]

Do we forget that we are ALL equal in the sight of our Creator?

no one said that "writing off" others means that we think they are inferior.

 

[~Zaria~]

^Indeed.....this was not necessarily implied.

Perhaps, it would be appropriate to also quote the next sentence as well:

Do we forget that we are ALL equal in the sight of our Creator?

--> What differentiates us is our piety.....not our wealth, our cuture, our life-styles, or our family backgrounds?

Salaam

 

[Rhubarb Tart]

no one said that "writing off" others means that we think they are inferior.

Salam
*roll eyes*


btw it is HARAM for fathers to reject someone because of their race and nationality! The more you write about this issue, the more sound like a pakistani rather than a MUSLIM!

http://www.islamicboard.com/general/134306587-marriage-issues.html


And my view on parents and future parents to be rejection of potential because of their race is disgraceful and not islamic! btw don’t come at me with "preference", the only person that is allowed to have preference is the daughter, the father has to make sure the brother is good person! The father CANNOT reject a potential because of his race, nationality, low income and even disability! And read the link all articles are from Islam q and A.

Btw are you going to spend a lot of time with your (hopefully unlikely) daughter’s husband to the point you will be there during their intimacy? There is thing called attraction, if your daughter want to marry a muslim man of different race who she happens to be attracted to, it is none of your business. Your business is to find what kind of a man is via the potential family, colleagues and friends!

http://www.islamicboard.com/advice-support/134302453-arab-sister-black-brother-2.html

^^^ I already expressed disgust at "parents" that reject purely on race!

Your view from Islamic perspective holds no water! It is HARAM, HARAM to for PARENTS ( in particular fathers) to reject potential because he is black, white or of a different nationality, Period!.


Good day!

 

[CosmicPathos]

There is thing called attraction, if your daughter want to marry a muslim man of different race who she happens to be attracted to, it is none of your business

Then she might as well marry George Clooney.

The more you write about this issue, the more sound like a pakistani rather than a MUSLIM!

huh.

 

[~Zaria~]

Then she might as well marry George Clooney?

Your argument is now bordering onto absurdity.

Clearly, we have been speaking of a potential MUSLIM spouse who is PIOUS, yet of a different ethnicity.

How does George Clooney feature in this? ^o)