Why are you an atheist?

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Re: why are you a Athiest?

There was one study where people that believe in God are less likely to commit suicide, mainly due to the fear of hellfire. But I'm not sure if this study was accurate since it was quite old, but it does contain an element of truth.

I remember hearing about that study in a sociology class in high school. Also said that people who followed some type of religion were generally happier people.
 
I like penguins. So cute. Are they halal to eat? O_o

Bite me! No wait! Don't! ;D

Moving on, why are atheists considered to be agnostic by some people?

Because they usually are.

Atheism = without theism = without belief in god

Agnostic = Without gnostic = without knowledge

The vast majority of atheists that I have met, in fact I think every single one I have met, is also agnostic, meaning they both lack belief in God(s) and that they will tell you they don't claim to know (at least not for sure). Many theists are also agnostic, meaning that they do believe in God(s), but also admit they don't know. Other theists, like many of you here, do claim that they know. They are not agnostic.
 
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I remember hearing about that study in a sociology class in high school. Also said that people who followed some type of religion were generally happier people.

I know the studies you refer to, and it is true. My undergrad was in social and cognitive psychology and I read a lot and did some research on the social psychology of religion. There is some truth to the phrase "religion is the opiate of the masses". Especially interesting is that this effect only seems to have any effect within poorer communities and amongst the less educated. Recent research published in the journal of personality and social psychology found that there was a strong effect in subjects who did not have steady and reliable access to all of the necessities of life (the religious worrying about if they'd get a next meal were happier than the non-religious worrying about if they'd get their next meal) but in subjects who did have steady and reliable access to all of the necessities of life there was a weak reverse effect (the non-religious who felt safe and secure and had food were somewhat happier than the religious who felt safe and secure and had food).

I think the same phenomenon lays behind the famous phrase "There are no atheists in foxholes". Of course the phrase isn't actually true as stated, atheist soldiers do exist and they have been in foxholes and stayed atheists, but I don't think there is any doubt that desperate times will drive some atheists to theism. But all that really demonstrates is that desperate people will turn to the irrational. They also turn to psychics, superstiscion, and all sorts of other irrational things.

I've also read studies about theists and atheists in their charitable giving. It is true that theists "give more to charity". But when you look deeper, you'll find that "charity" includes things like building churches, missionary work, etc. "Religion" is still an official head of charity in Canada (to my embarrasment). There also still exist a large number of charities explicitly religiously motivated, driven, and named which are not pushing religion and actually are about doing real charity. The Salvation Army is a good example. But you may be surprised how many atheists give and work for these charities even though they don't agree with the religion named (usually Christianity).

In the particular case of muslims I would grant that it is explicitly part of your religion to give a percentage of your income to charity, which is something not explicit in other religions (they'll say something much more vague) and there is no universal code adhered to by atheists that would require such a thing either (though you may be surprised how many of us do give generously).

Given the cohesive nature of religion to its ingroup community (the outgroup is a whole other matter) I would actually expect religions to foster a lot of charity, aid, and good will towards its members. I'd expect it to foster a lot more than it actually has been shown to do in recent times. I think this may be because human populations have grown so fast and the group unit has grown so big and is no longer able to support an ingroup dynamic very well, hence all the splintering of religions into denominations and sects.

Tragic Typos said:
There was one study where people that believe in God are less likely to commit suicide, mainly due to the fear of hellfire. But I'm not sure if this study was accurate since it was quite old, but it does contain an element of truth.

The study related to this that I know of, because I was actually involved in it, showed that the moderately religious fear death the most, and the highly religious and not at all religious (atheists) fear it the least. This appears to be because there is uncertainty in the moderates, while the highly religious are all convinced they are bound for heaven and the atheists have literally nothing to fear (as they see death as literally nothing). There is a strong statistical trend that the more religious somebody is the more certain they are that they are going to heaven (or the GOOD side of the afterlife). Highly religious thinking they may be going to hell do exist but are far more rare according to the research, and strangely enough include a high percentage of children (still being indoctrinated I suppose) and women (no idea why) and almost never adult men.

For suicide, I think most religions have a "Suicide is a deadly sin" bit to them. Otherwise I'd have to wonder why these people don't hasten their journey to heaven. Some radical muslims seem to have found a way around this in wanting to be "martyrs" though.
 
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I'd like you to point out

Perhaps if you asked engaging questions and actually read and thought about the answers and engaged in two sided conversation, as MustafaMC and TragicTypos have done thus far, rather than assigning answers to me and thrusting a position to defend upon me as you have done thus far, I may have reason to converse with you further. But for now I'm done with you, sorry.
 
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Re: why are you a Athiest?

But by introducing a creator you only push that back one step. Instead of having a spontaneously created or always existing universe you have a spontaneously or always existing creator of it. Instead of having life form from amino acids which themselves came together I know not how, you've got a super being, often claimed to be magical, that assembled life on this planet and we're left to wonder what assembled it.
I don't have any qualms about an 'always existing creator' nor have I wondered 'what assembled it'. I don't really comprehend or understand how it can be, but I believe that Allah (swt) exists in a different dimension than we do. We are defined by the limits of our existence which are basically that of space and time. I exist within the confines of my physical body (space) and during my life (time) that began at my conception and will end with my death. However, as a Muslim I believe that my soul is not defined by those limits of space and time and that my body will be resurrected and reunited with my soul at some point after my death. My mind can't comprehend the size of the universe with "A galaxy 13.12 billion light-years from Earth is the most distant object yet detected, a new study says." http://news.nationalgeographic.com/...-space-most-distant-galaxy-farthest-universe/ Can your mind comprehend how far 13.12 billion light years is? Keep in mind that light travels at 186,000 miles per second! Well, I believe that Allah is not confined even within that unimaginable amount of space. The Big Bang Theory occured 13.7 billion years ago, which again I can't comprehend. Yet, I believe that Allah (swt) existed even before that in what can best be considered a different dimension.
But more importantly do you stop at "a creator" or do you then go on to name this creator as a God, attribute specific attributes, demands, etc to him? The former I can see as rational. The latter I can not. Although I am atheist, meaning I lack any belief in God(s), I don't have any real isue with deism.
I believe that Allah has attributes as revealed in the Quran and that he created us for a purpose and has provided direction for how we are to live our lives which includes worshiping Him in the manner He has revealed through various prophets, the last of which was Muhammad.
"God of the gaps" shrinks remarkably over the ages as science progresses and we learn more about the world around us. We used to attribute the rain to the Gods. We used to attribute illness to the Gods. Now we know about weather patterns and viruses. "god of the gaps" will probably always be with us, at the limits of our understanding, because we as humans tend to not like admitting when we don't know the answers.
I believe we will never be able to explain the totality of our existence outside of what has been willed for us to know. Science will never be able to prove that we completely cease to exist at our death and that we will not be resurrected. I know immensely more than your 'Average Joe' (as Allah has willed), but I am not afraid to admit what I do not know. As Harry Callahan (Clint Eastwood) said on the movie 'Magnum Force', "Man's got to know his limitations."
I'm curious. Do you think it is that? If you assume for a moment that there is no God, would evolution be the best teory to explain life on earth to you? Or do you see other ideas that you think would be better?
No, I don't think ToE provides the best explanation for life on earth. My opinion is that the quote, "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt." by Abraham Lincoln. Silence on an unknown issue is immensely better than pure speculation and guessing.
I'm not unswervingly 100% certain. A deistic God is plausible, were there any evidence for one, but I see none besides "god of the gaps". I am about as certain that there is no God as I am that there is no ESP, ghosts, etc. I have no reason to believe that such things exist.
I am not so sure that paranormal experiences aren't real. I believe that jinn and angels exist and that they sometimes directly interact with our world while mostly we have no perception of their existence.
As for the particular gods claimed by varoius relgions (ie, Allah, Ganesh, Zeus) of those I'm more confident don't exist, as they all tend to conflict with one another, are traceable to isolated origins (people tend to believe the religions of their own cultures), and typically make bold claims (such as global floods, resurrections from the dead, talking snakes, etc) that look no more credible than the native folk story of "how the eagle got its wings".
You could be right that our belief system is a myth. We have a lot of beliefs that can't be proven beyond any doubt, else it wouldn't be faith would it?
If you want to know how atheists view Islam and why, you need only consider how you view religions you don't believe in and why. I think the reason I don't believe in Allah is the same reason you don't believe in Zeus.
... and the same reason I don't believe Jesus was both God and man. Can you imagine that there is another dimension beyond space and time and that we humans will be resurrected from the dead to face our Creator on Judgment Day? Can you imagine the possibility of a Paradise and a Hell? Well, I can imagine and in fact believe in the Islamic articles of faith which include these.
 
Perhaps if you asked engaging questions and actually read and thought about the answers and engaged in two sided conversation, as MustafaMC and TragicTypos have done thus far, rather than assigning answers to me and thrusting a position to defend upon me as you have done thus far, I may have reason to converse with you further. But for now I'm done with you, sorry

Are they not questions?

Or maybe because my questions were in the same veins of atheists' usual "question" to us, asking us to prove that God exists?

Is that why you are mad?
Because we can play at your game too?
 
Re: why are you a Athiest?

Okay, fresh question to you:

Why do atheists equate the existence of the creator with that of purple unicorns?
Please enlighten me.
 
Re: why are you a Athiest?

More fresh question:

What is your actual objection to "revealed truth"?
 
Re: why are you a Athiest?

But by introducing a creator you only push that back one step. Instead of having a spontaneously created or always existing universe you have a spontaneously or always existing creator of it. Instead of having life form from amino acids which themselves came together I know not how, you've got a super being, often claimed to be magical, that assembled life on this planet and we're left to wonder what assembled it.

This universe is not always existing, because you and I exist, and because there is time.
If this universe has always existed, there would not have been 'time" because there won't be "then, now, and later"

No real honest scientist would ever say that this universe is always existing.

Also, our concept of God is not "spontaneous" as you called it.

You have been mixing up Islamic concept of god with that of christianity, pagan, etc.
 
There is some truth to the phrase "religion is the opiate of the masses". Especially interesting is that this effect only seems to have any effect within poorer communities and amongst the less educated.
I agree that faith probably comes more frequently to the poor and down trodden, but there are examples to the contrary like Abu Bakr (may Allah be pleased with him) and myself.
There is a strong statistical trend that the more religious somebody is the more certain they are that they are going to heaven (or the GOOD side of the afterlife). Highly religious thinking they may be going to hell do exist but are far more rare according to the research, and strangely enough include a high percentage of children (still being indoctrinated I suppose) and women (no idea why) and almost never adult men.
I feel that I am a highly religious person, yet I don't have a conviction of certainity that I will not be going to Hell. I have hope in the Mercy of Allah, but I also have a fear of His Wrath. I don't place my faith in my performance of religious duties as ensuring my place in Paradise, but rather I see my own known imperfections and sins. In Islam the intention determines the merit of any deed and who among us can judge his own heart and inner most intentions. I trust in the promises that Allah made to believers in the Quran and I pray for His forgiveness.
 
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There is a strong statistical trend that the more religious somebody is the more certain they are that they are going to heaven (or the GOOD side of the afterlife). Highly religious thinking they may be going to hell do exist but are far more rare according to the research,

Can you please quote the sources for this research? Did the research have muslims as subjects, or were they limited to christians (who believe that once they believe in Jesus, then the will absolutely go to heaven)?

I'd like to know more, because as far as I know, and I know A LOT of muslims, the more practicing a muslim is and the higher their eeman is, the more fear they have that they will go to hell.

Also read stories on the prophet's sahaba (ra) and you would absolutely know that.
 
what about the research which showed that atheists are more likely to ask for euthanasia (actively physician assisted, not passive by taking off the ventilator and letting nature take its course) when it comes apparent to them that their disease is terminal, so they better escape the shackles in "peace" rather than in pain. Is that the extent of your bravery when it comes to dealing with suffering and pain? Is that your willingness to stand face-to-face in confrontation with evolution, which of course is trying to eliminate you out of the gene pool by giving you the disease, or you guys give up easily to the Darwinian forces?

In a Smith-Stoner (2007) survey of self-identified atheists found a clear and strong preference for physician-assisted suicide (PAS) and evidence-based medical interventions related to end-of-life care. Over 95% of participants supported PAS, as an important consideration in palliative care medicine (Smith-Stoner 2007). Clinicians were therefore recommended to proactively and directly address PAS and suicide issues with atheists related to suffering and end-of-life issues, as well as maintaining respect for client philosophical beliefs or non-beliefs (Smith-Stoner 2007).
Research has also found that atheistic or agnostic health care professionals are more likely to favor PAS or euthanasia than religiously affiliated health care professionals (Anderson and Caddell 1993; Baume et al. 1995).

Source: Lizardi D and Gearing RE. J Relig Health (2010) 49:377–384

the above review of research shows atheists' attitude towards end-of-life care and cant bear the excruciating pain that their own body gives you in the last moments, the very body whose lust they keep on trying to fulfill for most of your life.
 
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Re: why are you a Athiest?

I don't have any qualms about an 'always existing creator' nor have I wondered 'what assembled it'. I don't really comprehend or understand how it can be, but I believe that Allah (swt) exists in a different dimension than we do.

You believe it through faith. And since I lack that faith, or any reason to hold that faith, I'm sure you can understand why I don't come along with you on this belief. It may patch up some holes in your knowledge (the ultimate one of how things got started anyway) in a faith sense, but it doesn't explain our origins in any rational non-faith sense other than pushing the question back one step. How are we here is answered that God put us here and then the question becomes how is God here. Its ok that you are not interested in knowing that, but it is indeed the same question one degree removed. There is a famous story about this quandry being addressed to a native man. His belief was that the world was perched on the back of a giant turtle. Somebody asked him "What is the turtle perched on?" "Another Turtle" he answered. "And on That?" he was asked. "Its turtles all the way down" :)

Can your mind comprehend how far 13.12 billion light years is?

Its amazing isn't it? What astronomers and astrophysicists have been discovery is mind boggling. Dark matter and dark energy are even greater mysteries. I love following science :)

My opinion is that the quote, "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt." by Abraham Lincoln. Silence on an unknown issue is immensely better than pure speculation and guessing.

But isn't speculation how hypotheses are formed? We need to take what evidence we have and form theories so we can test them. Otherwise we can't really move forward.

I am not so sure that paranormal experiences aren't real.

I'm not either. But I have no reason to believe that they are real. So without good evidence of them, I don't have any belief in them. Same goes for Gods.

Can you imagine that there is another dimension beyond space and time and that we humans will be resurrected from the dead to face our Creator on Judgment Day? Can you imagine the possibility of a Paradise and a Hell?

I can imagine them sure. But I have no reason to believe they are any more real than other myths and stories.
 
I agree that faith probably comes more frequently to the poor and down trodden, but there are examples to the contrary like Abu Bakr (may Allah be pleased with him) and myself.

I'd also point out that most of the research I referenced had subject pools dominated by Christians. Muslims would have been a minority and therefore under represented in the results, so there may be some variation.
 
what about the research which showed that atheists are more likely to ask for euthanasia (actively physician assisted, not passive by taking off the ventilator and letting nature take its course) when it comes apparent to them that their disease is terminal, so they better escape the shackles in "peace" rather than in pain. Is that the extent of your bravery when it comes to dealing with suffering and pain? Is that your willingness to stand face-to-face in confrontation with evolution, which of course is trying to eliminate you out of the gene pool by giving you the disease, or you guys give up easily to the Darwinian forces?

This actually would not surprise me at all. I'm open and bold enough to admit that I'd even be one of them. Call that weak if you like. If I'm sure to die shortly am not needed for some sort of emergency service or something and I'm in a ton of pain, then sure, I'll take the needle. Why would somebody want to "stand face-to face in confrontation with evolution" and what does that even mean?

In a Smith-Stoner (2007) survey of self-identified atheists found a clear and strong preference for physician-assisted suicide (PAS) and evidence-based medical interventions related to end-of-life care. Over 95% of participants supported PAS, as an important consideration in palliative care medicine (Smith-Stoner 2007). Clinicians were therefore recommended to proactively and directly address PAS and suicide issues with atheists related to suffering and end-of-life issues, as well as maintaining respect for client philosophical beliefs or non-beliefs (Smith-Stoner 2007). Research has also found that atheistic or agnostic health care professionals are more likely to favor PAS or euthanasia than religiously affiliated health care professionals (Anderson and Caddell 1993; Baume et al. 1995).

I only speak for myself and not for all atheists of course, but this sounds reasonable to me. I see no reason to prolong or amplify needless suffering if death is imminent and inevitable and the person wishes a quick and painless release. It should be the choice of the person involved.

the above review of research shows atheists' attitude towards end-of-life care and cant bear the excruciating pain that their own body gives you in the last moments, the very body whose lust they keep on trying to fulfill for most of your life.

Do you realize that what you write here is as bigoted and erroneous as somebody saying that "you muslims are terrorists who want to die for Allah by blowing up cafes"?

First, try not to generalize one atheist to all atheists.

Second, try not to make up your own ideas and attribute them to all atheists.
 
there should be a dislike button too.

LOL Sorry, there are only so many ways that you can hate me. Expressing your wish for my death is probably not going to be topped though by a "dislike" button.

Must say though, I do like you straight forward you are.
 
Are they not questions?

Ok, one last time and then you'll be ignored.

You asked some questions. I answered them. You ignored my answers. You made up your own. You attributed those to me. You then painted a position for me to hold and asked me questions based on that position, which I never actually held, and then you whined about me not answering your questions.

Or maybe because my questions were in the same veins of atheists' usual "question" to us, asking us to prove that God exists?

I have never asked you to prove that God exists. I know you can't do that anymore than I could prove he doesn't.

Is that why you are mad?

I am not mad.

Because we can play at your game too?

You clearly are playing a game. It is not my game. I have no interest in such games. You and Bluebell can have fun making snide remarks and asking rhetorical questions (and giving your own answers), but don't expect me to indulge you further.
 
You ignored my answers.

And I asked you again, where were those answers?
All you have to do is to link your answers.

You made up your own. You attributed those to me.

Again, where?
I am challenging you. Otherwise this is slander. Not sure if atheists believe slander is very important.

You then painted a position for me to hold and asked me questions based on that position, which I never actually held, and then you whined about me not answering your questions.

again, please point out those to me.

I have never asked you to prove that God exists. I know you can't do that anymore than I could prove he doesn't.

I did not say you asked me to prove God exists. I said :
Or maybe because my questions were in the same veins of atheists' usual "question" to us, asking us to prove that God exists?

You clearly are playing a game. It is not my game. I have no interest in such games. You and Bluebell can have fun making snide remarks and asking rhetorical questions (and giving your own answers), but don't expect me to indulge you further.

I am sorry, this preposterous. I have pointed out a lot of flaws in your arguments and rethoric and it seems instead of acknowledging that you were wrong, you are choosing to shy away from discussing my valid points such as here:

Can you please quote the sources for this research? Did the research have muslims as subjects, or were they limited to christians (who believe that once they believe in Jesus, then the will absolutely go to heaven)?

I'd like to know more, because as far as I know, and I know A LOT of muslims, the more practicing a muslim is and the higher their eeman is, the more fear they have that they will go to hell.

Or here:

And There have been extensive and intensive studies and research done that shows religious people give a lot more than atheists.

So that refutes your claim.

or here:

Why do atheists equate the existence of the creator with that of purple unicorns?
Please enlighten me.

or here:

This universe is not always existing, because you and I exist, and because there is time.
If this universe has always existed, there would not have been 'time" because there won't be "then, now, and later"

No real honest scientist would ever say that this universe is always existing.

Also, our concept of God is not "spontaneous" as you called it.

You have been mixing up Islamic concept of god with that of christianity, pagan, etc.

Ok, one last time and then you'll be ignored.

It's okay if you ignore me, but so you know, I will NOT ignore you. :)
 
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