Converts: Has the Muslim Community Failed them? Dr Leon Moosavi on BBC Radio Leeds

[Perseveranze]

Asalaamu Alaikum,

This is sadly true...

Recent BBC Radio talk -

How do you think we could improve this problem?

 

[Hulk]

I've not watched the video but I assume it's about reverts leaving the deen. Personally I think knowledge will strengthen faith, also moderation. Don't try to do everything all at once. The Quran was sent in a span of 23 years, not in a single day. Also, the fellow muslim brothers/sisters should be supportive and lenient. Don't go criticising the converts or try to "school" them. Take a humble approach. I believe many of the things our Prophet did still applies today. The sahabas were converts after all :statisfie

 

[Perseveranze]

I've not watched the video but I assume it's about reverts leaving the deen. Personally I think knowledge will strengthen faith, also moderation. Don't try to do everything all at once. The Quran was sent in a span of 23 years, not in a single day. Also, the fellow muslim brothers/sisters should be supportive and lenient. Don't go criticising the converts or try to "school" them. Take a humble approach. I believe many of the things our Prophet did still applies today. The sahabas were converts after all :statisfie

It's not really about that, it's more about negligence of New Muslim converts by the community.

 

[جوري]

You can't blame Muslims for being suspicious though, I mean feds stick weridos out of prison on them to entrap them and you get people who pretend to be one thing and are another like 'Soraya' of late.. come one we're only human.. how is one to distinguish right away? They need to stew over their decision and not be so fickle as to be swayed with whether or not the community is welcoming to them.. Who did Ibrahim PBUH have save his nephew Lot?
It is personal journey not a communal effort...

 

[CosmicPathos]

converts leaving Islam just czu "ignorant" and "culturally backward narrowminded" Muslims from Eastern lands failed them? Very first thing I would do is doubt the sincerity of these converts towards Islam. If peers and people around you can change your conviction, its a sign of a weakness in oneself.

How many sahaaba left Islam just because they did not get the support they needed? Rather back then, once you accepted Islam, you knew you are getting into trouble. You know you'd be shunned, and despite that sahaaba knew its the truth and they stayed firm. There was no 'failing'. At hudaybiyah, a captive Muslim escaped from Makkah to beg to Prophet to take him to Medina but by the time the escapee reached Prophet had signed the treaty. Prophet did not take the man and returned him to Makkans ... this person very well could ahve left Islam at that time after seeing how Prophet abandoned him ... but no.

 

[Aprender]

converts leaving Islam just czu "ignorant" and "culturally backward narrowminded" Muslims from Eastern lands failed them? Very first thing I would do is doubt the sincerity of these converts towards Islam. If peers and people around you can change your opinion, its a sign of a weakness in oneself.

As a revert to Islam, not even a year in yet, I agree with this. These days, especially if you live in the West, if you accept Islam you know that you will be shunned and get into some trouble. If anyone leaves Islam after something that they KNEW would happen then really, how sincere were you in the first place when you accepted Islam? I find leaving Islam because no one supported you just as silly as leaving Islam because one Muslim did something bad that you don't like.

Besides, you don't always need other Muslims around to support you all the time. Read Quran, study your religion. Learn Arabic. If you're doing all of that you won't have time to notice that you don't have any "support". People have lives too and can't be there with you every step of the way. You have to learn how to walk on your own with Allah (swt) by your side.

One of the revert sisters here felt lonely sometimes too so she just started a weekly group for Muslim converts to come and learn about Islam together at the masjid. She didn't wait on anyone else to do that for her. Problems are inevitable but misery is optional.

 

[CosmicPathos]

^^ indeed, where there is a will, there is a way. I understand that humans are social creatures, and reverts would need, and rightly so, to mix in with Muslim community. But if they dont get such community, then mayb its a test from God to check their conviction? You dont get anything on silver platter in this life. If the conviction towards faith was true and deep, I am sure any believer would, in the end, come out with flying colors.

and if someone does leave islam for atheism, i am pretty sure the atheist community would welcoem these ex-Muslims for 2 days and then everyone back to their bz lives. That is just how life works, Muslims are no different. The only difference is that we are religiously obligated to help other Muslims whom we see to be in trouble. If someone does not do that, it is not Islam's fault, it is that Muslim's fault.

 

[TrueStranger]

I do think that some Muslims have failed some reverts. Like the speaker said, not every situation is the same and not everyone has the misfortune of meeting Muslims who present Islam on a cultural platter. The Prophet's character was as appealing as the Message God choose him to deliver. He did not turn anyone away, and those who believed in him were also helpful to each other and were not suspicious of those who converted later on. The problem is not with Islam, it's with Muslims. It's one thing to be rejected by Non-Muslims, but when Muslims turn away from sincere reverts, then that is the fault of the Muslim community. Let's at least acknowledge the fact that maybe we are making some few mistakes that could be corrected and not all reverts are on the same level.

We are already told to avoid suspicious, and there is no point in putting all the blame on them. At the end of the day I'm sure the issue is more complex than it appears.

49.12. O you who believe! Avoid much suspicion, for some suspicion is a grave sin (liable to God's punishment); and do not spy (on one another), nor backbite (against one another). Would any of you love to eat the flesh of his dead brother? You would abhor it! Keep from disobedience to God in reverence for Him and piety. Surely God is One Who truly returns repentance with liberal forgiveness and additional reward, All-Compassionate (particularly towards His believing servants).

 

[CosmicPathos]

It's one thing to be rejected by Non-Muslims, but when Muslims turn away from sincere reverts, then that is the fault of the Muslim community

sure its their fault for turning them away, but again it depends, maybe they are having troubles and trials in their own lives too, no one is perfect and a paragon of perfect faith. But it is that reverts fault if they become murtid and go back to their old faith. are they that insecure and weak in their conviction that lack of support will sway their beliefs?

 

[TrueStranger]

Islam does not just address the spiritual side of Muslim, but also the social side as well....A Muslim is the brother of a Muslim. He neither oppresses him nor humiliates him nor looks down upon him. The piety is here, (and while saying so) he pointed towards his chest thrice. It is a serious evil for a Muslim that he should look down upon his brother Muslim. All things of a Muslim are inviolable for his brother in faith; his blood, his wealth and his honor. Sahih Muslim.

Again not every situation is the same, but it is unrealistic to imply that Muslims do not play a role in driving some people away from Islam. It's funny how we take full credit when it comes to attracting new Muslims into Islam, but when anything goes wrong, then it's all their fault. Unnecessary suspicious, racism, and neglect are factors that negatively affect a revert's faith. The same way good manners, gentleness, and support positively affects the faith of a new revert.

 

[CosmicPathos]

but it is unrealistic to imply that Muslims do not play a role in driving some people away from Islam.

I never said they are not driving ppl away from islam. But it is not their fault as long as they followed all tenets of sharia such as good manners. Some ppl will always run away from Islam based on its rulings towards women, rulings towards homosexuality etc ... how can you say that it is Muslim's fault? Even if someone is repulsed from islam due to some Muslim's ill behavior, it is not the fault of that Muslim as far as "keeping someone away from Islam" is concerned. Only Allah guides, and only Allah misguides. What this Muslim is responsible for in front of Allah is his bad ikhlaaq, deviating from Sunnah etc.

It is the fault of the person who runs away from Islam for he judged religious edicts not based on scripture but on opinion and actions of others. Let us not put blame on others. Just like how some Muslims are blameworthy of judging Hinduism by action of some villager hindus who take shower with cow's piss. Hinduism is much more sophisticated than that.

 

[Aprender]

It's one thing to be rejected by Non-Muslims, but when Muslims turn away from sincere reverts, then that is the fault of the Muslim community. Let's at least acknowledge the fact that maybe we are making some few mistakes that could be corrected and not all reverts are on the same level.

This is true but I can't always blame the Muslim community for this. Before I came to Islam there were a few sisters from Indonesia that my friend from Dubai wanted to introduce me to because she knew they were more religious than she was and she thought they'd be good company for me instead of her. So she went up to them and tried to introduce me to them and they basically told her to just tell me to get help from the MSA. I didn't take offense to that though. I recognized that maybe there were some personal reasons or maybe language barriers there that they weren't comfortable with trying to help me with at that point and time in their lives. Not a problem. I didn't feel unsure about my decision to soon take my Shahada once that happened. Made no difference to me.

At that point I did go to the MSA and I found sisters there who I got along with very well and they help me from time to time with things and I am a shy person. They took me to the masjid, showed me how to make wudu and how to pray. I think as a revert you really do have to make the effort to find some Muslim friends that you get along with and who are good company for you to learn from. Not everyone is just going to magically flock to you as people aren't going to be able to tell you are a Muslim just by looking at you either--especially if you're a sister and don't wear hijab yet. You have to go to events, put yourself out there, talk to other Muslims around you.

I really don't know what else the Muslim community could do for reverts who feel alone because at least where I live, all of the opportunities to be included in the Muslim community are there, you just have to make the effort to include yourself in them or remain in isolation if that's what you want.

 

[TrueStranger]

I never said they are not driving ppl away from islam. But it is not their fault as long as they followed all tenets of sharia such as good manners. Some ppl will always run away from Islam based on its rulings towards women, rulings towards homosexuality etc ... how can you say that it is Muslim's fault? Even if someone is repulsed from islam due to some Muslim's ill behavior, it is not the fault of that Muslim as far as "keeping someone away from Islam" is concerned. Only Allah guides, and only Allah misguides. What this Muslim is responsible for in front of Allah is his bad ikhlaaq, deviating from Sunnah etc.

It is the fault of the person who runs away from Islam for he judged religious edicts not based on scripture but on opinion and actions of others. Let us not put blame on others. Just like how some Muslims are blameworthy of judging Hinduism by action of some villager hindus who take shower with cow's piss. Hinduism is much more sophisticated than that.

I understand and I agree.

Salaam

 

[Aprender]

Again not every situation is the same, but it is unrealistic to imply that Muslims do not play a role in driving some people away from Islam.

I read the Quran from cover to cover before I took my shahada. Maybe all reverts should at least do that first? They should I hope...but I was able to see what Islam taught and what Muslims did. There was a difference. I realized that Muslims are human beings and make mistakes and don't always do what they're supposed to. But seeing the beauty of the religion in what I read in the Quran and what I learned of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was enough to make me recognize that Islam is the true religion. No one elses bad behavior has changed that for me to this day and I pray that Allah (swt) allows me to die as a Muslim.

 

[TrueStranger]

I read the Quran from cover to cover before I took my shahada. Maybe all reverts should at least do that first? They should I hope...but I was able to see what Islam taught and what Muslims did. There was a difference. I realized that Muslims are human beings and make mistakes and don't always do what they're supposed to. But seeing the beauty of the religion in what I read in the Quran and what I learned of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was enough to make me recognize that Islam is the true religion. No one elses bad behavior has changed that for me to this day and I pray that Allah (swt) allows me to die as a Muslim.

I agree. There is nothing more important than reading the Qu'ran cover to cover. It truly puts the world in perspective. New reverts should be encouraged to read and re-read the Quran over and over again. Some people do have questions and need answers. Usually in a short period of time. And it's completely normal to have questions about the Qu'ran. However, I remember reading the Qu'ran at the age of 18, and I truly didn't understand the meaning of some verse. I tried listening to some explanations, but the explanations were more confusing. I don't know would have been preferred. I personally won't know what I would have done if I didn't read the whole Quran. By the time I reached Surah Imran I felt like I received my answer.

--3:7--He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book: In it are verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the Book: others are allegorical. But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is allegorical, seeking discord, and searching for its hidden meanings, but no one knows its hidden meanings except Allah. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: "We believe in the Book; the whole of it is from our Lord:" and none will grasp the Message except men of understanding.

All I know is that not everyone is like you and I. So I grew a habit of entertaining any possibility that could influence them or their actions. I truly do hate seeing people leave Islam. And just because they left it the first time does not mean that they can't come back.

May Allah keep us on the straight path and may we die as Muslims.

 

[Hulk]

I think we have to be careful when we talk about doubting the sincerity of converts, we are not given the ability to judge intentions.

 

[Crystal]

Yes I agree that integrating is the hardest..I studied Islam for about a year and a half before I became a Muslim so it is not like it was a random decision. But yea sometimes I feel left out among other Muslims. I have to say though of course there are many Muslims who are so welcoming and really willing to help me with learning about Islam or how to speak arabic but then there are other Muslim sisters who look down on me and I think it is because I haven't started to cover my hair yet - but honestly I think that is a horrible way to judge a person as it doesn't take into account anything else.

 

[Sunnie Ameena]

Last year when I decided to convert, I did not want to do it alone, so I called the Mosque that was closest to me (about an hour away). The brother that answered the phone was very nice. I told him I wanted to convert and that I wanted to be assisted. He said Shahada and I repeated. It was like the empty feeling inside of me was filled up. I then asked him if he could have one of the sisters to call me so that I could ask questions. As of today, I have never hear from any of them. But I don't blame them for not calling, because, the brother might have really been busy and just forgot to pass on my message, or he did pass it on, and the sisters just did not have time. Of course I was disappointed, but I still did not blame. I then tried to learn everything at once, and overwhelmed myself. So I stepped back and thought about it, and decided I would take things slowly. As of now, I have only spoke to one Muslim in person, and that was a very kind brother that I purchased some meat from at his market. And then I have this forum to learn from, but it would be nice to sit with a sister in person and just chat. Thanks to Allah I have found Islam. My husband is very supportive of me, and has not converted, and said he never will, well, now he is getting interested in all the videos I find on here, and the information I find. And when first he said "I will never convert", now he says " I don't know if I will". I will just keep making dua for him. I am very blessed to be Muslim. Sunnie Ameena

 

[Hulk]

Sis Sunnie MashaAllah thats amazing.. Sometimes I take for granted being in a situation where I can practice my faith easily and I have friends friends who share the same faith around me. I think it's good that you are trying to show your husband the truth, don't give up in praying and inviting him to the truth. The best form of da'wa of course is to be a good muslim yourself. In regards to making some muslim friends I imagine its not that easy with you being an adult and maybe not have much time, personally I think going to classes is a good way to make friends and at the same time gain beneficial knowledge. Truly in Islam the more knowledge you gain the firmer your iman will be. Islam was taught from person to person and thus I believe that is the best way.

 

[جوري]

I think we have to be careful when we talk about doubting the sincerity of converts, we are not given the ability to judge intentions.

It is more a self-preservation thing than doubt of another's intention.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/nov/16/fbi-entrapment-fake-terror-plots

this is nothing of course to the zillions of covert tactics they use...
A Muslim should never be bitten from the same hole twice.. I pray that Allah swt makes converts steadfast but it takes a while to build trust... I am just presenting you with why flat on the table many are apprehensive of converts..but a Muslim's heart is his/her guide anyway such as with the case with that last girl I never trusted her and found her questions on PM very suspicious like she was gathering information than wanting to understand of the religion so I think a little common sense also goes along way...