Precisely and people can choose to not believe what the media tells them. I haven't seen anyone argue that the man in question for this crime did not do it or is innocent. Some people believe that people are entitled to due process. You can't just take people out and tell a story and expect people to take everything you say at face value no questions asked. They did with Osama and they did this with Awlaki. Asking for proof is a reasonable request. Too bad the dead can't speak for themselves.
Toulouse murders stagger the French
- Thread starter جوري
- Start date
- Replies 92
- Views 73K
British Wholesales - Certified Wholesale Linen & Towels | Halal Food Gastronomy | PHP 8.4 patch for vBulletin 4.2.5
- Status
Precisely and people can choose to not believe what the media tells them. I haven't seen anyone argue that the man in question for this crime did not do it or is innocent. Some people believe that people are entitled to due process. You can't just take people out and tell a story and expect people to take everything you say at face value no questions asked. They did with Osama and they did this with Awlaki. Asking for proof is a reasonable request. Too bad the dead can't speak for themselves.
GuestFellow
IB Legend
- Messages
- 6,327
- Reaction score
- 784
- Gender
- Male
- Religion
- Islam
Not that one. The example I presented was not based on any true events.
Pygoscelis
Account Disabled
- Messages
- 4,009
- Reaction score
- 358
- Gender
- Male
- Religion
- Atheism
They know who their audience is and speak to their perspective. We get the same thing in Canadian news. When hearing reports about anything from the Olympics to national disasters we always seem to hear about the Canadians involved (usually as a side story but it does happen). I imagine this happens everywhere, media speaking to the perspective of their viewers. The problem is when they claim to be "International" in scope.
Roasted Cashew
IB Veteran
- Messages
- 546
- Reaction score
- 48
- Gender
- Male
- Religion
- Islam
And you can't simply shoot at the police, injure them and not expect retaliation. Again, he was asked to surrender, he didn't. Any logical mind would conclude that he had something to hide and was guilty because he chose to do otherwise.
i think its very similar to the Afghanistan tragedy. just two people who lost there minds and were already predisposed to a certain mentality.
either way its a tragedy when children are made targets, not a rational thing to think about.
out of all of humanity children are the most important.. callousness and heartlessness should be abolished from adults.
the site of dead children would make any person give up, those that dont.. are probably not of sound mentality.
its what i thought would make most difference in the isreal-palestine conflict.. apparently not.
if you want to turn men to animals, children are the target.. you would have to be an animal to do so though..
im not a realist but it seems we dont deserve peace.
either way its a tragedy when children are made targets, not a rational thing to think about.
out of all of humanity children are the most important.. callousness and heartlessness should be abolished from adults.
the site of dead children would make any person give up, those that dont.. are probably not of sound mentality.
its what i thought would make most difference in the isreal-palestine conflict.. apparently not.
if you want to turn men to animals, children are the target.. you would have to be an animal to do so though..
im not a realist but it seems we dont deserve peace.
Al Jazeera not to air French killings video
Network says broadcast of video showing shootings that left seven dead in southern France does not meet code of ethics.
Al Jazeera has said it will not air a video that it received showing three shooting attacks in Toulouse and Montauban in southern France this month.
The network on Tuesday said the video did not add any information that was not already in public domain. It also did not meet the television station's code of ethics for broadcast.
The video shows the attacks in chronological order, with audible gunshots and voices of the killer and the victims. But it does not show the face of the confessed murderer, Mohammed Merah, and it does not contain a statement from him.
Merah appeared to be acting alone in the video, entitled "Al Qaeda attaque la France" - meaning "Al-Qaeda attacks France".
The 23-year-old Frenchman of Algerian descent, who said he was inspired by al-Qaeda, admitted to killing three soldiers, three Jewish children and a rabbi in a spate of shootings that sent shockwaves through France.
Merah boasted of filming his killings and witnesses told police that he appeared to be wearing a video camera in a chest harness.
The Paris prosecutor in charge of the case confirmed last week that the Merah had filmed each of the shootings.
Tracing the source
French police said on Monday they had copies of the videos, shot by Merah during the series of killings, that had been sent on a USB memory stick to Al Jazeera's office in Paris.
The package, which also contained a letter written in poor French with spelling and grammar errors, was dated March 21 - the day police surrounded Merah in his apartment in Toulouse after a massive manhunt.
Zied Tarrouche, Al Jazeera's Paris bureau chief, said the images were a bit shaky but of a high technical quality. He also said the video had clearly been manipulated after the fact, with religious songs and recitations of Quranic verses laid over the footage.
"Investigators are trying to find out whether the letter was posted [last] Tuesday night by Mohamed Merah himself or by an accomplice Wednesday morning," Le Parisien daily newspaper reported.
The French newspaper Le Figaro reported that the package containing the video files was sent from a southern suburb of Toulouse, and a French official close to the investigation has said it was not sent by Merah.
'Despicable images'
French President Nicolas Sarkozy, in mid-campaign for re-election, urged television networks on Tuesday not to broadcast the video. Family members of the victims also asked that the footage not be aired.
"I ask the managers of all television stations that might have these images not to broadcast them in any circumstances, out of respect for the victims - out of respect for the Republic," Sarkozy said.
Meanwhile, Merah's father, who was estranged from his son and lives in Algeria, has reportedly said he wants to file a complaint for Mohammed's death. In his address, Sarkozy expressed outrage at that idea.
"It's with indignation that I learned that the father of the assassin of seven people - including three soldiers and three children - wanted to file a lawsuit against France for the death of his son," Sarkozy said.
"Do we need to remind this man that his son filmed his crimes and diabolically made sure to send these despicable images to a television station?"
Sarkozy has said Merah was not part of a terror cell, but four anti-terrorist judges are heading the investigation into whether his brother, Abdelkader, was an accomplice, and whether anyone else might have been involved.
Preliminary charges for complicity in murder and terrorism have been filed against Abdelkader, though no evidence has emerged that he took part directly in the shooting.
Mohammed, who had attended an Islamist training camp in Pakistan, used a stolen scooter and a Colt 45 pistol to carry out his attacks over eight days before being cornered by police and eventually shot dead after a dramatic 30-hour siege.
The gunman's family has decided to have him buried in Algeria, his parents' native country, to avoid a grave in France being attacked or becoming a place of pilgrimage, an official of a Paris mosque said.
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/europe/2012/03/20123271265948416.html
Network says broadcast of video showing shootings that left seven dead in southern France does not meet code of ethics.
Al Jazeera has said it will not air a video that it received showing three shooting attacks in Toulouse and Montauban in southern France this month.
The network on Tuesday said the video did not add any information that was not already in public domain. It also did not meet the television station's code of ethics for broadcast.
The video shows the attacks in chronological order, with audible gunshots and voices of the killer and the victims. But it does not show the face of the confessed murderer, Mohammed Merah, and it does not contain a statement from him.
Merah appeared to be acting alone in the video, entitled "Al Qaeda attaque la France" - meaning "Al-Qaeda attacks France".
The 23-year-old Frenchman of Algerian descent, who said he was inspired by al-Qaeda, admitted to killing three soldiers, three Jewish children and a rabbi in a spate of shootings that sent shockwaves through France.
Merah boasted of filming his killings and witnesses told police that he appeared to be wearing a video camera in a chest harness.
The Paris prosecutor in charge of the case confirmed last week that the Merah had filmed each of the shootings.
Tracing the source
French police said on Monday they had copies of the videos, shot by Merah during the series of killings, that had been sent on a USB memory stick to Al Jazeera's office in Paris.
The package, which also contained a letter written in poor French with spelling and grammar errors, was dated March 21 - the day police surrounded Merah in his apartment in Toulouse after a massive manhunt.
Zied Tarrouche, Al Jazeera's Paris bureau chief, said the images were a bit shaky but of a high technical quality. He also said the video had clearly been manipulated after the fact, with religious songs and recitations of Quranic verses laid over the footage.
"Investigators are trying to find out whether the letter was posted [last] Tuesday night by Mohamed Merah himself or by an accomplice Wednesday morning," Le Parisien daily newspaper reported.
The French newspaper Le Figaro reported that the package containing the video files was sent from a southern suburb of Toulouse, and a French official close to the investigation has said it was not sent by Merah.
'Despicable images'
French President Nicolas Sarkozy, in mid-campaign for re-election, urged television networks on Tuesday not to broadcast the video. Family members of the victims also asked that the footage not be aired.
"I ask the managers of all television stations that might have these images not to broadcast them in any circumstances, out of respect for the victims - out of respect for the Republic," Sarkozy said.
Meanwhile, Merah's father, who was estranged from his son and lives in Algeria, has reportedly said he wants to file a complaint for Mohammed's death. In his address, Sarkozy expressed outrage at that idea.
"It's with indignation that I learned that the father of the assassin of seven people - including three soldiers and three children - wanted to file a lawsuit against France for the death of his son," Sarkozy said.
"Do we need to remind this man that his son filmed his crimes and diabolically made sure to send these despicable images to a television station?"
Sarkozy has said Merah was not part of a terror cell, but four anti-terrorist judges are heading the investigation into whether his brother, Abdelkader, was an accomplice, and whether anyone else might have been involved.
Preliminary charges for complicity in murder and terrorism have been filed against Abdelkader, though no evidence has emerged that he took part directly in the shooting.
Mohammed, who had attended an Islamist training camp in Pakistan, used a stolen scooter and a Colt 45 pistol to carry out his attacks over eight days before being cornered by police and eventually shot dead after a dramatic 30-hour siege.
The gunman's family has decided to have him buried in Algeria, his parents' native country, to avoid a grave in France being attacked or becoming a place of pilgrimage, an official of a Paris mosque said.
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/europe/2012/03/20123271265948416.html
Cabdullahi
IB Legend
- Messages
- 5,610
- Reaction score
- 1,308
- Gender
- Male
- Religion
- Islam
Al qaeda love going to strip clubs...dont they?
people who adhere to the fundamental principles of Islam dont go to strip clubs and they certainly do not kill innocent people at point blank range.
Brother Bush said that these fanatics want to kill us for our freedoms....the same freedom they once enjoyed?....going to titty bars?...they want to kill us for going to the same places that they once visited?
I dont understand what's going on to be honest...i would like to share with you four words.
dont believe the hype!
Last edited:
Not necessarily. I grew up in a culture surrounded by constant gang violence and individuals with a strong dislike for any type of law enforcement. I had classmates who were involved in shootings with others who would much rather DIE, than surrender to the police and be locked away in prison, and many of them chose death. A lot of them already know that the police won't listen to what they have to say anyway and the stories get told the way they're going to get told. And police don't mind this either. To them, it's just one less little "criminal" for them to worry about. Who would care? To the rest of the public they were just some little hopeless Arab/Black/Mexican/[insert any type of non-White ethnic group here] that was a danger to the rest of society....
I'm not saying that all police are like this but it happens quite often.
Last edited:
I have to disagree with you. Investigations should be done by journalists, not NATO and Afghan authorities. NATO and Afghan authorities are going to investigate in their own special way and give you a watered down report. It used to be the job of the journalist to find out what they're hiding and give the public the truth. The media used to be an objective entity. Journalism was born out of being the watchdog of the government and especially after all of the corruption that was happening in back in the 50s, 60s, 70s and beyond here in America. Their first obligation was to the public back then.
Unfortunately what you have happening now is a new generation of journalists who no longer ask the tough questions and accept what they are told by public information officers. They don't dig deeper. As long as the story gets filed before deadline they're done. The days of journalism like that of Woodward and Bernstein are gone. Journalists have less access to information and the government is becoming less and less transparent. As a result you get the news that THEY WANT you to know. Not necessarily the truth. Yes, some information is private and vital to national security and shouldn't be broadcast on the air but unfortunately all that's happened now is that it's easier for those who are corrupt to hide and continue their corruption.
And what's also unfortunate is that even when you do have some journalists who do their homework and expose the truth for what it is, their editors don't publish those stories for fear of getting funding from the news outlet cut off, fired, or even murdered. This has also happened before to journalists who get too close to the truth.
Another thing you have to understand is that most of the major news outlets in America are owned pretty much by the same three companies. So they control their puppets the way they want to. With the internet, anyone can post something anywhere to expose them which is why now they're trying to put stricter laws on internet use to silence people. WikiLeaks is a threat to corruption. Good journalistic work is a threat to their corruption so they bought the media out. But you can't own the internet at this point and time in history. Outlets like PeaceTV, and AlJazeera aren't widely accepted news outlets here in the U.S. so most people in the West aren't going to get access to that information or the documentaries that they show. The impact isn't as effective.
That's exactly how it works and we're taught this even in journalism school from day 1. Don't let them fool you. They report to you what THEY WANT YOU to hear and it's not always the truth.
Roasted Cashew
IB Veteran
- Messages
- 546
- Reaction score
- 48
- Gender
- Male
- Religion
- Islam
I understand what you are trying to imply and I agree with you that journalists should play a bigger role and go back to their roots of investigative journalism but mind you this is a crime scene. Don't you think forensic teams and the like should be handling this instead of journalists.
Don't worry sis, I know better than to trust only one source of information. I browse around and read my news from multiple sources.
It saddens me to see to the extent some of you are going to defend this guy. Well, I no longer feel angry about Americans trying to justify Bales actions anymore. Maybe he really does have PTSD. I guess, that's how it works. One's natural response is to make excuses for on of 'their' own.
Last edited:
aadil77
Glory Be To Allah
- Messages
- 5,007
- Reaction score
- 978
- Gender
- Male
- Religion
- Islam
No offence, but are you dumb enough to believe that NATO and US forces will properly investigate the killings?
They are the warmongers, the invaders, their job is to cover up the killings to prevent a public backlash, its called military censorship - go look it up.
And your last statement is pure appeasement to non-muslims.
That's not how it works. I used to be a journalist so let me explain a little better as I've been to a few crime scenes myself involving murder. Yes, you have to let the forensic teams and the detectives investigate what happened. As a journalist, you should go up and ask the detective what they found out, what they knew, if they have any leads, any suspects? Even try and ask the forensics team what they found if they'll talk to you including the medical examiner. And after the detective answers those questions, or at least sends you over to the PIO, you should then look for the people surrounding the crime scene to ask them what they saw. Talk to people surrounding the family. Get their point of view too. This is something unfortunately that gets neglected in journalism. Especially with breaking news. Journalists will just ask the PIO and forget the witnesses and go with the 'official story'. This is part of the objectivity that is missed a lot in news these days. It's good to get the official word from those who are handling the crime scene but you should also talk to those around for the sake of balancing your story out and providing the readers with another angle. News is supposed to start a public discussion. Not be about a bunch of suspicion.
The issue that I have with this story as a journalist is that it started out as a man who was in France possibly running around as a serial killer shooting innocent people but as soon as they found out who it was, all of a sudden he's a terrorist. And then they say he visited Afghanistan so he must have gotten training by the Taliban too! It's just like one of those extra details "added in" to puff up the story about this guy with a Muslim name. There is a pattern if you haven't noticed.
Rarely, if ever, when you look at the news reported by Western media outlets does it show any type of Muslim in a positive light. Just last week when that Muslim woman was beaten to death in an alleged hate crime, everyone suspected that the husband beat her and they're just trying to cover it up. Few months ago a Muslim woman who is a refugee from Iraq disciplined her daughter for talking to a man. The news reported that the woman beat her daughter so severely that she had to go to the hospital. The girl did have to go to the hospital for reasons unknown but when she returned the very next day, she had no visible bruises on her face, no bandages, as the news had originally reported and the girl said herself that she never told the police that her mother beat her either for them to arrest her mother and hold her in jail for it overnight. Then they concluded that report by basically saying that the girl was just lying and that immigrants just don't understand American culture. Another story a while ago a mosque was having trouble with supplies and providing food for the poor so a church stepped in to save the day. MashaAllah that's really nice but the way the story was written implied that Muslims and their places of worship are incapable of helping the needy--it implied that it was something only Christians could do best.
You have to read between the lines. Any good journalist will tell you this and this is drilled into us in journalism school. Look up the work of Ida B. Wells. During her time period, Blacks in the south were being lynched and severely beaten in droves for allegedly raping white women. Some of them denied a fair trial and their families beaten or burned alive by lynch mobs. Each newspaper would publish a story stating that some black man raped a white woman and Ida took notice of the holes in those journalism stories and called them out for it. And because of that good journalism work that she did, she received death threats for messing up the status quo of reporting bad about black men because that was the thing that sold papers and fueled hatred toward Black/African Americans. This was in the late 1800s. If you want to read more about that you can read her book called Southern Horrors and Other Writings: The Anti-Lynching campaign of Ida B. Wells.
Just because we're now in the 21st century doesn't mean that journalists don't still do this. This is a pattern that has been going on for ages. There is always some marginalized group that has to remain marginalized. Even during WWII when the Japanese were thrown into internment camps the media portrayed them in a negative light. Some American soldiers even took the heads of Japanese soldiers as trophies and boasted about it in the news and the public was fine with this practice because they were the enemy. The CIA created an entire news organization and dropped anti-Communist pamphlets from balloons on countries that could potentially be over thrown by Communism stemming from the Cold War. They played into the propaganda good by broadcasting stories of people who escaped Communist oppression to make it seem like the bad, evil "other". That news organization that they created is still around today except it is no longer run or funded by the CIA. This still happens today. Ex-Muslims show their faces on TV to expose how awful and terrible the religion is and people believe it. Why would the news ever lie to them about something? The techniques of Stephen Glass are still around in journalism today...
I'm not in any way defending this man. I have no idea the circumstances of what led him to do what he did and nothing that I shared with you is not true. You'd probably be surprised to know that children who live in certain areas of Los Angeles actually have higher levels of PTSD than American soldiers who come back from war zones.
Yeah, something caused this man to be up there that day. Something caused him to shoot those people and shoot at the police. But if he didn't have a Muslim name, but instead was named James Smith, or even Jared Loughner, then I doubt that the media would be calling him a terrorist but still someone who just "snapped", murdered people and was mentally unstable.
Last edited:
I'm an American and I am not making excuses for that soldier and if anything shows that getting out of Afghanistan is probably a better option at this point. Most of us here recognize that there are Muslims in the world who do very bad things. Just because one is a Muslim doesn't automatically make them perfect, free from sin or infallible. Yes, Muslims do bad things. But you have to understand that there are double standards at play here when it comes to the media portrayal of individuals who do bad things. I'm much more likely to believe a story like this one if I saw video in court proceedings of the one who did it clearly stating what happened, with evidence and why they did it as opposed to hearing it from the mouths of law enforcement ONLY. News articles used to be that way but not anymore. Too much conjecture. I'm not saying that he didn't do this. But the way in which this story was presented is just another way to characterize Muslims as terrorists and nothing else. Everyone else gets the benefit of the doubt of having PTSD, or being crazy, or being heavily intoxicated if they shoot people and harm others.
But if a Muslim does it, then no, they're not crazy, they're automatically a terrorist because they follow a backwards ideology incompatible with the 21st century. End of discussion. Even non-Muslims notice this constant negative publicity toward Muslims. I've had women come up to me and ask me why I'm not mean to them or if I have to go around killing people for being an infidel. Some even surprised to see a Muslim woman getting an education at the university because of the media portrayal of all Muslim women being oppressed or beaten by their husbands.
I'm not saying that Muslims don't do bad things and I am not condoning any of them who do. But it gets a little fishy when each news story that you hear about when it comes to Muslims is usually always something bad and the ones who did it mysteriously end up dead when it's all over unable to tell their side of the story. Whether a Muslim or non-Muslim is involved, as a former journalist I typically question these types of stories. The trend is quite obvious for the decade. I wonder what 'Muslim' or other minority in the Western world will be a terrorist or muderer in the news next week... :hmm:
GuestFellow
IB Legend
- Messages
- 6,327
- Reaction score
- 784
- Gender
- Male
- Religion
- Islam
Salaam,
Right.
So you put put journalists in charge of investigations...conflict of interest?
http://www.ski-jungle.com/posters/images2/PTW-110.jpg
Roasted Cashew
IB Veteran
- Messages
- 546
- Reaction score
- 48
- Gender
- Male
- Religion
- Islam
Hitting some nerves there am I? Nah, haven't reached that milestone yet. That's why I clearly said "...and Afghan authorities". Next time read the entire paragraph. Afghan forensic teams should work on the crime scene as well. You don't trust them either?
Last edited:
Roasted Cashew
IB Veteran
- Messages
- 546
- Reaction score
- 48
- Gender
- Male
- Religion
- Islam
Alright, so they both have their work cut out. Got it.
So this is the trend now-a-days which plagues the media IN GENERAL!
Rarely, if ever when you look at the news reported by Iranian outlets does it show any type of non-Muslims in a positive light. BIAS will always be there.
Roasted Cashew
IB Veteran
- Messages
- 546
- Reaction score
- 48
- Gender
- Male
- Religion
- Islam
Because 90% of the time it is a terrorist brainwashed by violent extremists. We can only blame these violent radicals for such perceptions from the west.
Bales was arrested and is in court now. Will you be able to accept if the court rules he indeed was suffering from PTSD??
Last edited:
GuestFellow
IB Legend
- Messages
- 6,327
- Reaction score
- 784
- Gender
- Male
- Religion
- Islam
Salaam,
I respectfully disagree to a certain extent. Most individuals that commit terrorist acts want to achieve a certain goal. This goal could be a good one, but the means to achieve it is not. As you know, US support for dictatorships in Asia, US military bases in Arab countries and US support for Israel has lead to individuals committing terrorist acts. This is the source of the problem.
There is no brainwashing involved, nor extreme ideology. I suspect what we do have is a lot of anger which translates to terrorist attacks. The anger comes from western countries interference. Of course, you will have some individuals that create propaganda to encourage Muslims to commit terrorist attacks, possibly for their own purposes, whether political or financial reasons. Propaganda may take the form of materials promoting hatred towards Jews, presenting western people as immoral human beings and so on.
Strip away all the rhetoric and you will find that there is no brainwashing nor extreme ideology. Just western countries interfering and some Muslims getting angry and want to stop this.
- Status