Wifehood and Motherhood are Not the Only Ways to Paradise

Oh, I do agree with that. Although, there are people out there who put career over marriage for no reason but to find some kind success. In which case, I think their measure of success is corrupt.
I have met a few uber ambitious people who have missed the train so to speak and unanimously they admit that the goal was never the ultimate satisfaction in their career so much as being able to stand on their own two feet and be able to be financially secure to face whatever life brings and it is almost always something in their life that has pushed them to that point.. Fear of failure or homelessness or not having a dignified life can make people linear in their thinking..


I didn't know they had a name for what ails me. :)

Oh I doubt that very much...:skeleton:
 
Being a wife and a mother IS ONE of the best ways to contribute to society. Jannah is not under the feet of a husband, but rather that of the mother. However, Abu Hurayrah reported that Allah’s Messenger (SAW) said:(1) “When a woman prays her five (prayers), (2)fasts her month (Ramadan),(3) preserves her chastity, and (4)obeys her husband, she will be told (on the Day of Judgement), “Enter Jannah from any of its (eight) gates.”

I can not for the likes of me understand why people emphasis the fourth part and not the first, the second, or the third condition. If a woman has taken care of the first three ( which is between her and Allah), then understanding and obeying her husband should never be a problem. And when it comes to raising children, last time I check it was a primary obligation on both parents. Why the emphasis is overwhelming more on the mother, that too, I can not understand.



“No human being is permitted to prostrate to another, but if this were permitted I would have ordered wives to prostrate to their husbands, because of the greatness of the rights they have over them.”

“If I were to order anyone to prostrate to anyone else, I would have ordered women to prostrate to their husbands.”
‘A’ishah (radhiallahu anha) asked Allah’s Messenger (sallallahu ‘alayhi wa sallam): “Who has the greatest rights over a woman?” He said, “Her husband.” She asked, ‘And who has the greatest rights over a man?” He said, “His mother.”
A woman came to ask the Prophet (sallallahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) about some matter, and when he had dealt with it, he asked her, “Do you have a husband?” She said, “Yes.” He asked her, “How are you with him?” She said, “I never fall short in my duties, except for that which is beyond me.” He said, “Pay attention to how you treat him, for he is your Paradise and your Hell.”

Reported by Ahmad and al-Bazzar, narrated by Tirmidhi, 2/314, in Abwab a-rida, Majma’ al-Zawa’id, 4/308, Bab haqq al-zawj ‘ala’l-mar’ah

‘Aishah urged women to take good care of their husbands and to recognize the rights that their husbands had over them. She saw these rights as being so great and so important that a woman was barely qualified to wipe the dust from her husband’s feet with her face, as she stated: “O womenfolk, if you knew the rights that your husbands have over you, every one of you would wipe the dust from her husband’s feet with her face.”

This is a vivid expression of the importance of the husband’s rights over his wife. ‘A’ishah wanted to bring this to women’s attention, so as to remove from the hearts of arrogant and stubborn women all those harsh, obstinate feelings that all too often destroy a marriage and turn it into a living hell.

sahih by Ibn Hibban, and with a jayyid isnad by al-Bazzar

Do you have reference to your quote? All of them matter, the thing is here, that a woman who does her daily prayers, fasts as she should AND is chaste will be able to see reality for what it is. It all goes together. A woman of Taqwa knows her place,its really quite simple.

As far as how we educate children with no formal education (as stated in another post). Well, what is formal education? Why does a person have to graduate from a place and have apiece of paper that states what they know? The scholars of Islam and the people who contributed the most to science, medicine and everything else are people who did NOT attend places like harvard or some facility of education. We can learn at home. I for one don't let a day pass by where I don't learn something new. Alhamdullilah. My daughter who is only 5 knows all the main body parts by their scientific names (ie: filanges (fingers) patella (knee cap) etc and she knows the names of all the continents and she can recognize them mashaAllah... list goes on. So that's an invalid argument IMO.

-
cOsMiC
 
ersonally, a woman not marrying because of some overly ambitious fixation on finding success in her career alone above all else, I dislike as it shows such a woman has her priorities mixed up.

Why is it wrong? Why are her priorities mixed up? Its her choice. She can do whatever she wants with her ovaries and her head.

On one hand you are arguing for letting people do whatever they wish (like helping community selflessly) and are promoting such ideals, which is not necessarily a bad thing, and also saying that different strokes for different blokes, then on the other hand you are downplaying women who are over-ambitious (that is better than being just ambitious) who do want to give priority to their career and success and riches over starting families. Which one is it?
 
Do you have reference to your quote? All of them matter, the thing is here, that a woman who does her daily prayers, fasts as she should AND is chaste will be able to see reality for what it is. It all goes together. A woman of Taqwa knows her place,its really quite simple.

As far as how we educate children with no formal education (as stated in another post). Well, what is formal education? Why does a person have to graduate from a place and have apiece of paper that states what they know? The scholars of Islam and the people who contributed the most to science, medicine and everything else are people who did NOT attend places like harvard or some facility of education. We can learn at home. I for one don't let a day pass by where I don't learn something new. Alhamdullilah. My daughter who is only 5 knows all the main body parts by their scientific names (ie: filanges (fingers) patella (knee cap) etc and she knows the names of all the continents and she can recognize them mashaAllah... list goes on. So that's an invalid argument IMO.

-
cOsMiC

like. ....
 
لميس;1507151 said:
Schizoid Personality Disorder are the only ones who truly enjoy being alone and are a bit eccentric makeup a very very small percent of any population and tend to be men.

come on sis, not all men want to be cuddled and loved. I at one point did not enjoy being in company of others, especially women. and i dont have schizoid or szhizotypal (at least I hope so!).
 
As far as how we educate children with no formal education (as stated in another post). Well, what is formal education?
It isn't a question of formal so much as having one period in matters of deen and dounia-- You asked the sister for a reference yet I see none in yours to the fact that one gets paradise for being 'under the husband's feet'-- 'obeying' doesn't equal obsequiousness and mindless following with no forethought, agreement, compromise or respect of both beings to one another what Allah swt refers to in the Quran as 'mawaddah and ra7ma'. Furthermore, usage of wrong syntax and grammar isn't very promising that the children reared are going to be anymore than under-educated hoodlums ignorant of matters of religion and education if a woman's sole job is to be a mother and teach the future generation. Exactly what is she teaching them if her education is missing in both.. Then they'll be the sort of creatures who count against Islam rather than solid scholarly individuals to build a very ailing ummah. As br. Alpha said it is best to avoid extremes for they're not a part of the religion.

:w:
 
come on sis, not all men want to be cuddled and loved. I at one point did not enjoy being in company of others, especially women. and i dont have schizoid or szhizotypal (at least I hope so!).

well you maybe an individual case study.. but I think you haven't met the right gal yet.. underneath this cold exterior is a Mr. Softee..;D

:w:
 
لميس;1507165 said:

It isn't a question of formal so much as having one period in matters of deen and dounia-- You asked the sister for a reference yet I see none in yours to the fact that one gets paradise for being 'under the husband's feet'-- 'obeying' doesn't equal obsequiousness and mindless following with no forethought, agreement, compromise or respect of both beings to one another what Allah swt refers to in the Quran as 'mawaddah and ra7ma'. Furthermore, usage of wrong syntax and grammar isn't very promising that the children reared are going to be anymore than under-educated hoodlums ignorant of matters of religion and education if a woman's sole job is to be a mother and teach the future generation. Exactly what is she teaching them if her education is missing in both.. Then they'll be the sort of creatures who count against Islam rather than solid scholarly individuals to build a very ailing ummah. As br. Alpha said it is best to avoid extremes for they're not a part of the religion.

:w:

First of all, i did not quote when I said paradise is at your husband's feet, i never said it was a fact or a hadith. There is no hadith like that, it's a saying or figure of speech, and I backed it up with relating hadiths. Second, when did I ever say that obeying was "obsequiousness and mindless following with no forethought, agreement, compromise or respect of both beings to one another" as you stated? Please refrain from putting words in my mouth. Knowledge comes from Quran and Sunnah, this is why I mentioned that the people who have contributed most to science and medicine did not graduate from some prestigious university here is a few of them


perhaps you are misunderstanding what I'm syaing, or just in this for the sake of arguing. Personally, I'm not. A woman's place is at home and raising a good family. The ignorant hoodlums you speak of are those who get abandoned when mom is busy with herself and fulfilling her career. I mentioned what I have thought my daughter as far as academics are concerned to make a point, she also knows how to make salaat, wudu and knows more Surah's than I do.

Going back to "
obeying isobsequiousness and mindless following with no forethought, agreement, compromise or respect of both beings to one another"

There is a saying, "To assume is to make and ass out of u and me". I do not for one second believe that obeying is an ignorant thing. Right now the subject is women, because the original poster made it so, however there are two sides to the coin. Men and women must understand each other's nature and respect one another. A man doesn't hold a degree over women easily u know. So please don't be so quick to assume that a woman who holds views like mine is ignorant and is ready to be a doormat. lol.

- cOsMiC
 
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What's wrong if a girl just wants to be a wife and a mother?

Not a thing!

I just wonder sometimes if the girl is in love with the man and wants to build a life with him, or if she is only in love with the idea of being married.
 
لميس;1507151 said:
Schizoid Personality Disorder are the only ones who truly enjoy being alone and are a bit eccentric makeup a very very small percent of any population and tend to be men

Dang...she's on to me.
 
Alpha Dude said:
Personally, a woman not marrying because of some overly ambitious fixation on finding success in her career alone above all else, I dislike as it shows such a woman has her priorities mixed up.
Why is it wrong? Why are her priorities mixed up? Its her choice. She can do whatever she wants with her ovaries and her head.

Who said it's wrong? I said I dislike it.

On one hand you are arguing for letting people do whatever they wish (like helping community selflessly) and are promoting such ideals, which is not necessarily a bad thing, and also saying that different strokes for different blokes, then on the other hand you are downplaying women who are over-ambitious (that is better than being just ambitious) who do want to give priority to their career and success and riches over starting families. Which one is it?

Not really. I'm arguing that (i) a woman can selflessly dedicate her life for the sake of reward by not marrying if she has a just cause and sincere desire. Conversely, I'm saying (ii) a woman who doesn't have such selfless, God centric desires, but is doing so for personal gain without seeing the bigger picture, is doing herself a disservice, as she misses out on reward.

Person (i) is doing something good as it brings her reward whereas person (ii) is missing out on reward (and not making up for it in other ways). That's my point and that's why I dislike it. Of course, they can do as they please eitherway as long as it's halal.

I dislike approach (ii) in the same fashion as I woud dislike a kid who has the choice of spending his time and effort playing his favourite games console or striving to memorise the Quran but chooses the former. Playing games isn't haram but there is certainly more reward to be had in Quran memorisation.
 
Who said it's wrong? I said I dislike it.



Not really. I'm arguing that (i) a woman can selflessly dedicate her life for the sake of reward by not marrying if she has a just cause and sincere desire. Conversely, I'm saying (ii) a woman who doesn't have such selfless, God centric desires, but is doing so for personal gain without seeing the bigger picture, is doing herself a disservice, as she misses out on reward.

Person (i) is doing something good as it brings her reward whereas person (ii) is missing out on reward (and not making up for it in other ways). That's my point and that's why I dislike it. Of course, they can do as they please eitherway as long as it's halal.

I dislike approach (ii) in the same fashion as I woud dislike a kid who has the choice of spending his time and effort playing his favourite games console or striving to memorise the Quran but chooses the former. Playing games isn't haram but there is certainly more reward to be had in Quran memorisation.

why is personal gain such an unislamic thing for which she would be missing out on awards?

salam
 
First of all, i did not quote when I said paradise is at your husband's feet. There is no hadith like that, it's a saying,
Innovation is a worst thing then especially in this case..
As for the rest, I invite you to reread my posts. You've taken what I have written to an avenue where the demographics don't suit me and where I personally haven't tread..

:w:
 
why is personal gain such an unislamic thing for which she would be missing out on awards?

salam
Because then the main purpose of our creation is ignored. We're here to worship Allah swt and he's ever merciful by allowing multiple avenues for that one merely saying sobhan Allah in awe of creation is such a mean, one of the more important ones making up half your deen is marriage and I assume it completes half of it for both men and women alike.. so if that isn't pursued or possible at least the other half (with whatever that entails of service to Allah) should be fulfilled. do you not agree?


:w:
 
why is personal gain such an unislamic thing for which she would be missing out on awards?

salam

Wa alaykum salam,

Again, I didn't say it's unislamic. It's halal and permissible.

It's also permissible to not forgive someone who wrongs you but a person who does forgive obviously will earn more reward.
 
I don't think society nowadays gives many opportunities for wives or mothers to do anything else other than remain inside the home whereas being a wife shouldn't just be about that - you can be a wife and be a good Muslim by becoming involved in charity, education etc things that benefit others - I think it is our own fault that we categorise wives as women who sit at home and as a sister said earlier in the thread we need women in different roles in society - and society should provide these opportunities and not make it easier for single women just to get these jobs over married women or pregnant women. I know also that there are women who would prefer to stay at home and that is their decision but there are also women who want to be a wife, a mother and also provide a benefit to their society even if it is only 1 day a week helping to volunteer and all good deeds will be rewarded in the sight of Allah...also Islam is a religion about balance we shouldn't just focus our attention and restrict the role of women as being just a wife/mother
 
Do you have reference to your quote? All of them matter, the thing is here, that a woman who does her daily prayers, fasts as she should AND is chaste will be able to see reality for what it is. It all goes together. A woman of Taqwa knows her place,its really quite simple.

As far as how we educate children with no formal education (as stated in another post). Well, what is formal education? Why does a person have to graduate from a place and have apiece of paper that states what they know? The scholars of Islam and the people who contributed the most to science, medicine and everything else are people who did NOT attend places like harvard or some facility of education. We can learn at home. I for one don't let a day pass by where I don't learn something new. Alhamdullilah. My daughter who is only 5 knows all the main body parts by their scientific names (ie: filanges (fingers) patella (knee cap) etc and she knows the names of all the continents and she can recognize them mashaAllah... list goes on. So that's an invalid argument IMO.

-
cOsMiC


Are you asking for the reference of the hadith? If so, then it is in Sahih Al Bukhari. The problem here is this thread is not about women mistreating, disobeying, or committing a grievous sin against their husbands. Most of the women under deliberation are not even married, so they have no need to worry about a matter that does not concern them at the moment. Why is it that every time a woman’s economic, academic or social status is mentioned that matters concerning motherhood and wifehood are inserted into the conversation? A woman of taqwa is not a woman who is necessarily a mother or a wife.

It truly does not matter where one graduates from, as long as they have a solid education that was provided by a teacher who is qualified. The scholars of Islam had respected and educated teachers that personally taught them or they invested time, resources, and energy into scholarly matters. They did not gain knowledge over night without the help of anyone else. No one mentioned Harvard or any other Ivy League school.

There is nothing in the Quran or the Sunnah that specifically says women your primary obligatory roles are wifehood and motherhood. Motherhood comes naturally to all women who can become pregnant. Islam did not limit women to those two options and doing so today is unrealistic. As for the duties of a wife, as far as I’m concerned according to Islamic Law, her roles do not include cooking, cleaning, washing, and basic household chores. Marriage is more than duties and laws; it involves voluntary sacrifice from both parties. A woman’s obligation is not to be a housemaid, and Islam has not prescribed that role directly to women. The fact that she declines to undertake house chores does not directly translate to “disobeying the husband”. If they agreed before hand that she will become a housewife, then she has to take care of chores pertaining to the house.I personally do not think that housework should even be an issue. Whoever has free time could do the cleaning.

It’s beautiful that you are teaching your daughter all the knowledge you possess currently. But can you honestly state that you have the knowledge and time to teach her subjects such as economics, (Islamic) law, chemistry, biology, physics, business, astronomy, etc…. School and formal education are there to cover a wide range of subjects and provide comprehensively knowledge to young men and women. We do not need to go to both extremes to get to Jannah. Keep a solid relationship with God, respect your parents, spouse (if one is married), and do no harm to Muslims (non-Muslim).

The most perfect of the believers in faith are the best of them in morals. And the best among them are those who are best to their wives. (Narrated in Mosnad Ahmad, and Al-Tirmizi).
 
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