please help me answer the athiest!

[جوري]

. But is society better today because of religion? no it isn't.

You conjecture. You'll have to wipe out humanity of all save the ten percent atheists to prove a point only to like minded individuals..
and you'd still be displeased for the lack of homogeneity.
Do you honestly expect that we play along your faulty premise simply to appease you?
You're welcome to be a pacifist we don't attack for the fun of it and so far Muslims have always been on the defense.. might as well quit while you're ahead I doubt you'd want a laundry list exposing your faulty views when google is so easy to access!

best,

 

[MustafaMc]

The question raised is a fair one. Although I accept the Quran as the word of Allah (swt), I too struggle with understanding the conflicting views about the death penalty punishment for apostasy. There is also the issue about no compulsion in religion that implies religious freedom to me. I myself went 16 years without practicing Islam and even went to church some. I am glad that the window of repentance was left open for me and that my heart was led back to Islam in 2001.

 

[crimsontide06]

Crimson tide I am ignorant? I could make a very strong case that you are the one who is ignorant.

I didnt call you ignorant...

 

[ILuvAllah]

no I am not any guy from youtube just a random person who stumbled upon this site after reading the "inspire" magazine online which I found to be astonishing. You know I don't care what religion a human being believes in as long as peace can be achieved across the humanitarian globe and let people believe or not believe in what they want to believe and coexist with each other in peace is what I hope can happen across the earth and these unprovoked "terrorist" attacks on innocent civilians need to be stopped. My friend died in the Mumbai shootings in the Taj by muslim extremists. She was as innocent as can be who never harmed a human being and lived as "sin-free" a life as one could.

in Islam if you kill one innocent person, you have killed the whole humanity. Those extremists are a disgrace to Islam.

 

[ILuvAllah]

I'm not sure this is exactly what Dr Zakir Nair is saying. He mentions the death penalty not being the standard punishment for any Muslim changing his faith... I think more clarification is needed before coming to the conclusion that he is saying there is no concept of capital punishment for apostates at all. Allaah (swt) knows best.

I think the verses from surah nisa makes it clear "If they withdraw not from you, nor offer you peace, nor restrain their hands, take (hold of) them and kill them wherever you Thaqiftumuhum. In their case, We have provided you with a clear warrant against them.)"

 

[CosmicPathos]

no I am not any guy from youtube just a random person who stumbled upon this site after reading the "inspire" magazine online which I found to be astonishing. You know I don't care what religion a human being believes in as long as peace can be achieved across the humanitarian globe and let people believe or not believe in what they want to believe and coexist with each other in peace is what I hope can happen across the earth and these unprovoked "terrorist" attacks on innocent civilians need to be stopped. My friend died in the Mumbai shootings in the Taj by muslim extremists. She was as innocent as can be who never harmed a human being and lived as "sin-free" a life as one could.

I am not condoning the death of your friend (although from a rational perspective, she had to die one day, either in the hospital bed ridden with pus oozing out or here in Taj as a young healthy person), but how do you know she is sin-free? Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. By God what you say astonishes me, no coherence in your claims.

Your friend died and you are so worked up. Families of Kashmiris who demand independence were and are being wiped out by Indian soldiers. You dont feel that pain.

 

[joboman24]

cosmic pathos you realize what you said is utter bull****. This is what people with extremist views talk like. people like you. If you really want to go into a rational perspective wouldn't you want facts and evidence before believing in a "god" based on a book. (again to the other muslims and islamists nothing against you or your religion just proving a point)? Just sayin. So me going and killing your wife and your children is considered from a rational perspective cosmic? We will see how "rational" you feel then. And if you really want to get into the kashmir situation you realize how many more terror attacks have been planted by muslim extremists compared to hindus right? That is one of the most ill facted statements about kashmir I could hear anyone make. Disgusting man.

 

[CosmicPathos]

cosmic pathos you realize what you said is utter bull****. This is what people with extremist views talk like. people like you. If you really want to go into a rational perspective wouldn't you want facts and evidence before believing in a "god" based on a book. (again to the other muslims and islamists nothing against you or your religion just proving a point)? Just sayin. So me going and killing your wife and your children is considered from a rational perspective cosmic? We will see how "rational" you feel then. And if you really want to get into the kashmir situation you realize how many more terror attacks have been planted by muslim extremists compared to hindus right? That is one of the most ill facted statements about kashmir I could hear anyone make. Disgusting man.

emotional argument. Why does it matter whether I believe in flying spaghetti or a monotheistic God or believe in nothing? either way, my comment regarding your friend's death stands tall and proud while not rebutted by you. I might be an atheist and still make the same previous claim I made. So no emotional arguments please especially ad hominems, personally attacking what i believe in.

So if many Muslims extremist planted bombs, it means Hindus have the right to go and kill Kashmiri civilians? You are disgusting for making that claim. Basically you believe in what you are condemning us for. Hypocrisy, sir?

 

[joboman24]

you can rationalize it any way you want but you clearly show extremism tendencies. How are you standing tall and proud over an innocent death? If Hindus come and kill your family are you still going to be standing "tall and proud"? I didn't think so. You would want to go to the ends of the earth to find these scums of the earth and chop their head off. If many muslim extremists planted bombs...then why cannot I make a case for Hindu extremists planting bombs? You understand? I am not condemning islam. I am condemning extremism and a whole lot of that. There is also no emotional argument to what I said. It is logic and shows the irrationality of extremists and people who think the way you think. It is sad.

 

[Aprender]

If many muslim extremists planted bombs...then why cannot I make a case for Hindu extremists planting bombs? You understand? I am not condemning islam.

Then remove the word muslim from your description of extremists if you are not condemning Islam.

There is also no emotional argument to what I said. It is logic and shows the irrationality of extremists and people who think the way you think. It is sad.

You have the right idea here but your diction and premise is contradictory. It appears that you can differentiate between what a religion teaches and the transgressions and deviations of people who act like they follow it but from some of your other posts, reading between the lines, I can't tell if you really believe what you write or if you want to have your cake and eat it too. Hmm....

 

[joboman24]

I will say this for now. In text the quran might be the best religious book out there to live life hypothetically. I haven't read more than a couple pages of any of the religious book so it is just hypothetical. Well if it makes sense on how to lead a good life with good morals then go for it. But don't try to tell me that one religion is better or right when not one human being on this earth knows for sure (100%) if there is a god. And that is a fact.

 

[joboman24]

Then remove the word muslim from your description of extremists if you are not condemning Islam.



You have the right idea here but your diction and premise is contradictory. It appears that you can differentiate between what a religion teaches and the transgressions and deviations of people who act like they follow it but from some of your other posts, reading between the lines, I can't tell if you really believe what you write or if you want to have your cake and eat it too. Hmm....

I am not condemning islam or any religion. I have a different opinion that's all. I respect your opinion on religion although I completely disagree with it as I would hope you respect my point of view whilst completely disagreeing with me. I am not going to be a bad soul or human being if I don't believe in allah or any other god but religion says otherwise that's why it bothers me. I may be putting more of an emphasis on allah because I am in a muslim forum to get my point across just like I would use krishna rama for a hindu forum.

 

[Muhammad]

and Greetings,

This thread is closed as we have clearly gone off-topic (many posts have been deleted). Regarding the original issue of apostasy - please refer to other threads and sources to get a better understanding of that Insha'Allaah.

Joboman - please raise your questions in the thread made for you in Comparative Religion (linked to above). You will find many people are willing to answer provided you allow them to do so.

Thread closed.