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Orangeduck
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Re: Easter.
1) English is not my first language, so I do apologize for spelling and grammer errors (spelling is not my cup of tea anyway). I can spell mohammads name in my mother tounge (just like I can spell almost anything in my native language).
I will respond to the user who's name is not in english. His reply will be in BOLD
To the excitement of Puin and von Bothner, some showed minor differences in wording and verse-order from Qur'ans in use today.
Puin never said he was "excited" like you quoted. In fact, he said what he discovered was "quite disturbing". He did notice minor differences in the wording, but he also noticed that entire suras from the modern day quran were missing (I gave examples above). He also noted that it ended at sura 95.
"It is considered a "cocktail" because it does not present material in the chronological or thematic order typical of Biblical narratives"
According to Puin and other scholars, it is a "cocktail" because most of the stories have been found in earlier writtings that pre-date islam. I can give examples if you want (let me know because the examples can be rather dull to read, but that is what historians do). It is NOT called a "cocktail" due to the chronological order of the text. Obviously, who ever said that either lied, or misquoted Puin to a very large degree.
You only offend yourself and also come across with a poor performance for if you apply a sliver of that so called study toward Christianity then you wouldn't be christian at all would you?
You are going to have to clarify what you mean. I have no idea what point you are trying to make.
can you produce variations within the Quran?
I can, and as above, if you want me to, let me know as the examples can be boring to read.
Here's the deal, Islam is the fastest growing religion and I understand that has to be a terrible slap....
For every report you show me that Islam is the fastest growing religion, I can show you one that says it isn't. However, that matters very little as the size or growth of a relgion has no bearing on it validity. Nor do I care what religion is growing fast. I have my beliefs, and that is all that matters to me.
Quran is being used 17 times memorized and written down since its inception the OT was written a thousand years after the matter and only after it was lost
Used 17 times? We used it 5 times a day. Not sure what you mean by 17. Muslims today say the quran was memorized, but historians dont agree. Here is a simple challenge. The ottoman caliph was abolished less than 100 years ago. Show me a quote from the last caliph that says muslim memorized the quran. Remember, that is less than 100 years ago. If you can't find a quote from him, then that is strong evidence that the idea that it was memorized is a very, very new concept to islam.
You also said the OT was written a 1000 years after the matter. Well, by that standard, the quran was written even later after the matter.
For example, Genesis speaks of Abraham, and wasn't written by an eye witness (meaning it was written after the fact). Lets say it was written 400 years after Abraham died. Well, the quran was written 2400 years after the fact. We can talk about this if you want.
I'm off to bed. So far, I would have to say my first day on the forum was positive. Most people were welcoming and I think there are some good discussions here
1) English is not my first language, so I do apologize for spelling and grammer errors (spelling is not my cup of tea anyway). I can spell mohammads name in my mother tounge (just like I can spell almost anything in my native language).
I will respond to the user who's name is not in english. His reply will be in BOLD
To the excitement of Puin and von Bothner, some showed minor differences in wording and verse-order from Qur'ans in use today.
Puin never said he was "excited" like you quoted. In fact, he said what he discovered was "quite disturbing". He did notice minor differences in the wording, but he also noticed that entire suras from the modern day quran were missing (I gave examples above). He also noted that it ended at sura 95.
"It is considered a "cocktail" because it does not present material in the chronological or thematic order typical of Biblical narratives"
According to Puin and other scholars, it is a "cocktail" because most of the stories have been found in earlier writtings that pre-date islam. I can give examples if you want (let me know because the examples can be rather dull to read, but that is what historians do). It is NOT called a "cocktail" due to the chronological order of the text. Obviously, who ever said that either lied, or misquoted Puin to a very large degree.
You only offend yourself and also come across with a poor performance for if you apply a sliver of that so called study toward Christianity then you wouldn't be christian at all would you?
You are going to have to clarify what you mean. I have no idea what point you are trying to make.
can you produce variations within the Quran?
I can, and as above, if you want me to, let me know as the examples can be boring to read.
Here's the deal, Islam is the fastest growing religion and I understand that has to be a terrible slap....
For every report you show me that Islam is the fastest growing religion, I can show you one that says it isn't. However, that matters very little as the size or growth of a relgion has no bearing on it validity. Nor do I care what religion is growing fast. I have my beliefs, and that is all that matters to me.
Quran is being used 17 times memorized and written down since its inception the OT was written a thousand years after the matter and only after it was lost
Used 17 times? We used it 5 times a day. Not sure what you mean by 17. Muslims today say the quran was memorized, but historians dont agree. Here is a simple challenge. The ottoman caliph was abolished less than 100 years ago. Show me a quote from the last caliph that says muslim memorized the quran. Remember, that is less than 100 years ago. If you can't find a quote from him, then that is strong evidence that the idea that it was memorized is a very, very new concept to islam.
You also said the OT was written a 1000 years after the matter. Well, by that standard, the quran was written even later after the matter.
For example, Genesis speaks of Abraham, and wasn't written by an eye witness (meaning it was written after the fact). Lets say it was written 400 years after Abraham died. Well, the quran was written 2400 years after the fact. We can talk about this if you want.
I'm off to bed. So far, I would have to say my first day on the forum was positive. Most people were welcoming and I think there are some good discussions here
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Re: Easter.
I actually have the letters of puin & they can be download it here (zip file containing 5 jpg files); the fax is a handwritten Arabic document and more on the matter here for anyone who’s interested.
So how about you show us those disturbing pieces a before and after so you'd put your money where your mouth is? Further, if you don't know how the Quran is used 17 times a day then perhaps it is prudent to do a bit more research on being a Muslim before pretending to be one?
(do read all that I have posted) I am not here to re-answer questions already clearly addressed in the links and posts quoted on this very page the account you're trying to save face and carpet bomb two unstudied and thoroughly refuted statements which you can't stand by ergo your indoctrination cesspool!
You can show me nothing, you can't back any statements you spew.. Making an assertion of being learned doesn't make one learned as we have refuted you thoroughly including on the alleged account of Jesus, life, cruci(fiction) and resurrection-- you'd be better off working on that first before making the leap as to what Islam is. I despise nothing more than كافر صرصور ذو رائحة كريهة ونتنة
I'd want to hide in bed to if I were a hypocrite exposed!
best,
I actually have the letters of puin & they can be download it here (zip file containing 5 jpg files); the fax is a handwritten Arabic document and more on the matter here for anyone who’s interested.
So how about you show us those disturbing pieces a before and after so you'd put your money where your mouth is? Further, if you don't know how the Quran is used 17 times a day then perhaps it is prudent to do a bit more research on being a Muslim before pretending to be one?
(do read all that I have posted) I am not here to re-answer questions already clearly addressed in the links and posts quoted on this very page the account you're trying to save face and carpet bomb two unstudied and thoroughly refuted statements which you can't stand by ergo your indoctrination cesspool!
You can show me nothing, you can't back any statements you spew.. Making an assertion of being learned doesn't make one learned as we have refuted you thoroughly including on the alleged account of Jesus, life, cruci(fiction) and resurrection-- you'd be better off working on that first before making the leap as to what Islam is. I despise nothing more than كافر صرصور ذو رائحة كريهة ونتنة
I'd want to hide in bed to if I were a hypocrite exposed!
best,
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Re: Easter.
Greetings,
Thank you for your reply.
May I ask did you study either religions from their sources also? as well as historically?
Do you believe Jesus (PBUH) is divine?
I see that you've stated the Qur'aan is changed, how would you then consider the bible? Is the bible the exact word of God?
Please acknowledge that the author of the Qur'aan does inform us that the word of God will not be destroyed, it is protected.
But if one were to test which word is the truth, one way is to getting rid of all scriptures in the world and then realising which has still remained with us, now there are numerous versions of the bible, am I correct? and 1 version of the Qur'aan.
Which book would still remain on earth? Has the bible been protected as it has been mentioned in the bible or the Qur'aan?
The memorised Qur'aan or the bible? Christianity or Islaam? Now I would like a direct answer, if this were ever to happen, which would remain? in other words has God protected his message? or not?
This is NOT the only way to prove the Qur'aan is authentic, there are many other ways of doing so.
From the Qur'aanic point of view, the Qur'aan has spoken about the previous books such as the torah, psalms and injeel, it does not reject them, rather it rejects the one's that have been distorted, the Qur'aan confirms that which has been distorted. I apologise for going on, but what I was wondering, do you know this? Did your parents teach you this? If not, do you believe it was left upon you to study? Do you know it is the duty of all muslims to seek knowledge?
And I believe sister Lamees has posted enough information on the previous page for you to look into.
peace
Hello my friend. Being a HUGE history buff, Christianity held a certain allure to me. The quran says that Christ didn't die in the cross, but historical records say He did. Being a history nut, I saw Christianity as a religion that had a historically sound and mostly verifiable foundation. This was very appealing to me.
If I didn't appreciate history as much as I do, I might not have every studied religion from a secular and historical point of view...and I might still be a muslim.
There is more than just the historical aspect, but that was probably the biggest influence. I never saw Christ in a dream where He spoke to me. None of the Saints ever appeared to me. I don't really have any grand conversion story. It's quite boring actually
Greetings,
Thank you for your reply.
May I ask did you study either religions from their sources also? as well as historically?
Do you believe Jesus (PBUH) is divine?
I see that you've stated the Qur'aan is changed, how would you then consider the bible? Is the bible the exact word of God?
Please acknowledge that the author of the Qur'aan does inform us that the word of God will not be destroyed, it is protected.
But if one were to test which word is the truth, one way is to getting rid of all scriptures in the world and then realising which has still remained with us, now there are numerous versions of the bible, am I correct? and 1 version of the Qur'aan.
Which book would still remain on earth? Has the bible been protected as it has been mentioned in the bible or the Qur'aan?
The memorised Qur'aan or the bible? Christianity or Islaam? Now I would like a direct answer, if this were ever to happen, which would remain? in other words has God protected his message? or not?
This is NOT the only way to prove the Qur'aan is authentic, there are many other ways of doing so.
From the Qur'aanic point of view, the Qur'aan has spoken about the previous books such as the torah, psalms and injeel, it does not reject them, rather it rejects the one's that have been distorted, the Qur'aan confirms that which has been distorted. I apologise for going on, but what I was wondering, do you know this? Did your parents teach you this? If not, do you believe it was left upon you to study? Do you know it is the duty of all muslims to seek knowledge?
And I believe sister Lamees has posted enough information on the previous page for you to look into.
peace
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Orangeduck
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Re: Easter.
May I ask did you study either religions from their sources also? as well as historically?
I have read the Bible and Quran from cover to cover more than once. I still read the Quran today even though I am not a muslim anymore. I absolutly do not want to forget what I learned, and the best way to do that is to keep on reaing it
I have read most of the Hadiths compiled by Bukhari (i have not read them all yet). I have 2 islamic study guides (I find them rather dull, but they are a great recource).
Do you believe Jesus (PBUH) is divine?
Yes. I authors of the New Testament made it pretty clear that He is God. The authors record many stories of people worshiping Jesus and He fully accepted their worship. I'm not here to convince you that you need to believe what I believe, but now that I am a Christian, I accept the Bible and Church Tradition.
I see that you've stated the Qur'aan is changed, how would you then consider the bible? Is the bible the exact word of God?
The Bible and Quran have both been changed to a degree. That really shouldn't matter. Every book, as I have said before, that was written before the printing press, has been edited. People place too much emphasis on an idea that a book has or has never been edited. For example, I am reading a book called "Stalingrad". Every single copy of that book is identicle. Does that mean it is inspired by God and that God is protecting the book from alteration? Another example is reading Ceaser's reports on the Gallic Wars. Those reports have been edited. However, the reports are still valuable and contain a very large degree of truth. Does that mean it can never be trusted since it has been edited?
Please acknowledge that the author of the Qur'aan does inform us that the word of God will not be destroyed, it is protected.
Both the quran and the bible both claim their words are protected, and if you are a typical muslim (nothing wrong with being a typical muslim) then you also believe the diety of Islam is the same diety of Christianity...which means your diety either failed to keep his promise, or couldn't. My priest would probably kill me if he reads what I am about to say next. I reject the concept of Divine Authorship of either book. Humans wrote and edited both books. Niether book appeared miraculously in their origianal form. I much prefer history, and I look at each book from a historical...not an inspired, point of view. You are welcome to disagree with my belief on both books.
But if one were to test which word is the truth, one way is to getting rid of all scriptures in the world and then realising which has still remained with us, now there are numerous versions of the bible, am I correct? and 1 version of the Qur'aan.
In Koine Greek, I only know of 1 New Testament. There are many english translations of the Koine Greek text (such as KJV, NIV, NASB, ect...)
When it comes to the arabic text of the quran, here is something that maybe you (or anyone) can help me with. There is the Hafs, Warsh and Qalun versions that I am aware of. Those 3 qurans are not identical. I found a chart online that showed versus that had completely different meanings. I have never been able to get an answer from something reguarding these differences. Which is the correct version (or another way to ask, which version would be the closest to what muhammad would have recited)? How did these differences happen? What caused the differences? I ask this because I want to learn, so if you have any good information, or know a non-apologetical webpage that explains it, I would be interested.
May I ask did you study either religions from their sources also? as well as historically?
I have read the Bible and Quran from cover to cover more than once. I still read the Quran today even though I am not a muslim anymore. I absolutly do not want to forget what I learned, and the best way to do that is to keep on reaing it
I have read most of the Hadiths compiled by Bukhari (i have not read them all yet). I have 2 islamic study guides (I find them rather dull, but they are a great recource).
Do you believe Jesus (PBUH) is divine?
Yes. I authors of the New Testament made it pretty clear that He is God. The authors record many stories of people worshiping Jesus and He fully accepted their worship. I'm not here to convince you that you need to believe what I believe, but now that I am a Christian, I accept the Bible and Church Tradition.
I see that you've stated the Qur'aan is changed, how would you then consider the bible? Is the bible the exact word of God?
The Bible and Quran have both been changed to a degree. That really shouldn't matter. Every book, as I have said before, that was written before the printing press, has been edited. People place too much emphasis on an idea that a book has or has never been edited. For example, I am reading a book called "Stalingrad". Every single copy of that book is identicle. Does that mean it is inspired by God and that God is protecting the book from alteration? Another example is reading Ceaser's reports on the Gallic Wars. Those reports have been edited. However, the reports are still valuable and contain a very large degree of truth. Does that mean it can never be trusted since it has been edited?
Please acknowledge that the author of the Qur'aan does inform us that the word of God will not be destroyed, it is protected.
Both the quran and the bible both claim their words are protected, and if you are a typical muslim (nothing wrong with being a typical muslim) then you also believe the diety of Islam is the same diety of Christianity...which means your diety either failed to keep his promise, or couldn't. My priest would probably kill me if he reads what I am about to say next. I reject the concept of Divine Authorship of either book. Humans wrote and edited both books. Niether book appeared miraculously in their origianal form. I much prefer history, and I look at each book from a historical...not an inspired, point of view. You are welcome to disagree with my belief on both books.
But if one were to test which word is the truth, one way is to getting rid of all scriptures in the world and then realising which has still remained with us, now there are numerous versions of the bible, am I correct? and 1 version of the Qur'aan.
In Koine Greek, I only know of 1 New Testament. There are many english translations of the Koine Greek text (such as KJV, NIV, NASB, ect...)
When it comes to the arabic text of the quran, here is something that maybe you (or anyone) can help me with. There is the Hafs, Warsh and Qalun versions that I am aware of. Those 3 qurans are not identical. I found a chart online that showed versus that had completely different meanings. I have never been able to get an answer from something reguarding these differences. Which is the correct version (or another way to ask, which version would be the closest to what muhammad would have recited)? How did these differences happen? What caused the differences? I ask this because I want to learn, so if you have any good information, or know a non-apologetical webpage that explains it, I would be interested.
جوري
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Re: Easter.
Indeed the bible has changed grossly. I don't know many people who wish to gamble on a book or a mangod of whom their very salvation depends is there's the slightest bit of suspicion or error.
How about you show us the changes in the Quran without meandering the thread for another few pages on repetition of your alleged accolades?
best,
Actually it does matter very much, it is the very crux of the matter and to elaborate would indeed showcase just how well read and studied you're. Do you not want to backup the drivel with some solidity?
Indeed the bible has changed grossly. I don't know many people who wish to gamble on a book or a mangod of whom their very salvation depends is there's the slightest bit of suspicion or error.
How about you show us the changes in the Quran without meandering the thread for another few pages on repetition of your alleged accolades?
best,
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Orangeduck
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Re: Easter.
/\/\
I wish you would reply with something of actual substance. I gave examples of editions in the quran, and you weren't able to refute them.
You conveniently ignored many of the points I made, which is no big deal as if your current replies are any indication, I won't waste my time reading them
Either way, even if could do the impossible and show the quran or the Bible have never been changed, you still couldn't prove the theology in either book. You can't prove Muhammad got his revelation from an Angel. You still can't prove what he said to his companions is actually what an Angel said to him (if the event even happened)
I could literally go on like this for weeks.
You mentioned historical time frames when speaking of the events in some old testament books, but you refused to comment when I used your same standard against the quran...why is that?
/\/\
I wish you would reply with something of actual substance. I gave examples of editions in the quran, and you weren't able to refute them.
You conveniently ignored many of the points I made, which is no big deal as if your current replies are any indication, I won't waste my time reading them
Either way, even if could do the impossible and show the quran or the Bible have never been changed, you still couldn't prove the theology in either book. You can't prove Muhammad got his revelation from an Angel. You still can't prove what he said to his companions is actually what an Angel said to him (if the event even happened)
I could literally go on like this for weeks.
You mentioned historical time frames when speaking of the events in some old testament books, but you refused to comment when I used your same standard against the quran...why is that?
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Re: Easter.
Those before and after are sure to be earth shattering. I certainly want to be present for the moment you make that revelation!
Again we'll be waiting. Why don't you put your money where your mouth is oh read one?
I haven't seen any examples I have seen you tooting your own horn & I am still waiting-- go ahead please wow me with real life examples using the Quran and its variance!
What points are those outside of assertion of how well you're read? Again still waiting on those variant readings!
Those before and after are sure to be earth shattering. I certainly want to be present for the moment you make that revelation!
It doesn't really make for an argument to pose your own Q's and answer them in the same breath.. Is that a level refutation from a 'learned' man and a 'history buff'? how about you fulfill that first part of your testimony and show me the impossible?
Good, we'll be waiting!
You haven't shown any time frames that are consistent with recorded historical facts!
Again we'll be waiting. Why don't you put your money where your mouth is oh read one?
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Ğħαrєєвαħ
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Re: Easter.
So you have no problem with God dying on the cross?
I do not believe the Qur'aan has been changed, it should matter because God does not make mistakes.
Printing press? The Qur'aan has not been changed from the time it was revealed till this very day. you may feel free to disagree.
I have not read the book Stalingrad, has it told us it is from God? However, if your analogy were to be applied to everything, then muslim's would have claimed that Bukhaari, Muslim etc were from God also, which is not the case here. Also, the authors of Stalingrad or any other book are humans, not God. They never claimed they were from God, nor do they have anything to do with this.
Do you know what editing it? Many things go through a person's mind when editing, someone may change or add, or remove, in other words it does not remain the same/original once this process is completed.
The book form of the Qur'aan has been preserved so far and so is the message brought by all prophets of God.
I believe in the God of Jesus, yes, but not Jesus as God (PBUH). What promise?
If you reject divine authorship, then how can you conclude what you are reading is the word of God? You might as well read all books?
What is the proof the Qur'aan was edited?
So if one were to rid all books, this book would remain against the Qur'aan? If all Qur'aan's were destroyed in book form, they would still remain in the hearts of many and able to be recollected . If all the Koine Greek books, sources and so on were destroyed completely, how you would you collect it once again?
I'm curious to know, whilst you were a muslim, did you ever listen to the recitation of the Qur'aan?
Hafs, Warsh and Qalun are not different versions of the Qur'aan, rather different styles of recitating the same Qur'aan.
Perhaps this video will shed some light, if not feel free to ask questons.
I believe the book -Introduction to the science of the Qur'aan, book he has used in his video is something you should have a read up on to understand more, inshaa'Allaah, i have the link to the PDF if you are interested.
So you have no problem with God dying on the cross?
I do not believe the Qur'aan has been changed, it should matter because God does not make mistakes.
Printing press? The Qur'aan has not been changed from the time it was revealed till this very day. you may feel free to disagree.
I have not read the book Stalingrad, has it told us it is from God? However, if your analogy were to be applied to everything, then muslim's would have claimed that Bukhaari, Muslim etc were from God also, which is not the case here. Also, the authors of Stalingrad or any other book are humans, not God. They never claimed they were from God, nor do they have anything to do with this.
Do you know what editing it? Many things go through a person's mind when editing, someone may change or add, or remove, in other words it does not remain the same/original once this process is completed.
The book form of the Qur'aan has been preserved so far and so is the message brought by all prophets of God.
I believe in the God of Jesus, yes, but not Jesus as God (PBUH). What promise?
If you reject divine authorship, then how can you conclude what you are reading is the word of God? You might as well read all books?
What is the proof the Qur'aan was edited?
So if one were to rid all books, this book would remain against the Qur'aan? If all Qur'aan's were destroyed in book form, they would still remain in the hearts of many and able to be recollected . If all the Koine Greek books, sources and so on were destroyed completely, how you would you collect it once again?
I'm curious to know, whilst you were a muslim, did you ever listen to the recitation of the Qur'aan?
Hafs, Warsh and Qalun are not different versions of the Qur'aan, rather different styles of recitating the same Qur'aan.
Perhaps this video will shed some light, if not feel free to ask questons.
I believe the book -Introduction to the science of the Qur'aan, book he has used in his video is something you should have a read up on to understand more, inshaa'Allaah, i have the link to the PDF if you are interested.
Ğħαrєєвαħ
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Re: Easter.
You never asked Questions about the Angel coming to the Prophet (Pbuh), so how would one give an answer? If so, can you link me to the thread? So far on this thread the discussion has been on the authenticity of the Qur'aan.
You never asked Questions about the Angel coming to the Prophet (Pbuh), so how would one give an answer? If so, can you link me to the thread? So far on this thread the discussion has been on the authenticity of the Qur'aan.
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Orangeduck
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Re: Easter.
/\/\/\/\
You said "the OT was written a thousand years after the matter and only after it was lost" (both your statements were wrong).
You didn't give any examples, but YOU brought up time frames, then I said that same standard could be used for the quran also. When you found out that your own arguement hurts your claim, you changed the subject
However, as I said above, you didn't reply with anything worth while. I'm all for people being able to say whatever they want (reguardless of weather or not its worth reading), so by all means, keep replying...I just wont read it. There are actually people here who are interested in having an adult conversation
My question to anyone who knows the answer is, I wanted to start a thread about people's opinion on a subject (under the world affair section). It said that I have to wait for a mod to approve it. How long does that take?
/\/\/\/\
You said "the OT was written a thousand years after the matter and only after it was lost" (both your statements were wrong).
You didn't give any examples, but YOU brought up time frames, then I said that same standard could be used for the quran also. When you found out that your own arguement hurts your claim, you changed the subject
However, as I said above, you didn't reply with anything worth while. I'm all for people being able to say whatever they want (reguardless of weather or not its worth reading), so by all means, keep replying...I just wont read it. There are actually people here who are interested in having an adult conversation
My question to anyone who knows the answer is, I wanted to start a thread about people's opinion on a subject (under the world affair section). It said that I have to wait for a mod to approve it. How long does that take?
Orangeduck
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Re: Easter.
Gareebah (I cant copy and paste your name for some reason)
I have arrows pointing up, but they were not meant for you
You replied before I could send my own reply. Just want you to know my post was not meant for you.
Gareebah (I cant copy and paste your name for some reason)
I have arrows pointing up, but they were not meant for you
You replied before I could send my own reply. Just want you to know my post was not meant for you.
Sunnie Ameena
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Re: Easter.
I am not here to argue, I am just curious. Why would you want to remember something you apparently no longer believe? Again, that is not meant in an ugly way, I am truly just curious. Sunnie Ameena
I am not here to argue, I am just curious. Why would you want to remember something you apparently no longer believe? Again, that is not meant in an ugly way, I am truly just curious. Sunnie Ameena
جوري
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Re: Easter.
The thread is supposed to be about easter, you in fact meandered it to suit your whimsey. But fine let's address the point from your own scholar's points of view
The thread is supposed to be about easter, you in fact meandered it to suit your whimsey. But fine let's address the point from your own scholar's points of view
See above, and no the same standards can't be given for the Quran and I have already cited and referenced sources on the previous page. Again assertions doesn't a refutation make!You didn't give any examples, but YOU brought up time frames, then I said that same standard could be used for the quran also. When you found out that your own arguement hurts your claim, you changed the subject
Who is determining worth here? an ignoramus who is trying to pass himself as a scholar yet can't evince one of his statements with something other than hot air? or the person who cites and references everything? I guess we'll just leave that to the discerning reader.. What you read or don't read is inconsequential. You should question why you're here? If it is for trolling which is the only obvious conclusion then I am not sure what sort of 'adult' conversation can be attained. You'd be better suited for like minded trolls?However, as I said above, you didn't reply with anything worth while. I'm all for people being able to say whatever they want (reguardless of weather or not its worth reading), so by all means, keep replying...I just wont read it. There are actually people here who are interested in having an adult conversation
What does this have to do with this thread, authenticity of the bible or the Quran? Is it scholarly to keep jumping from one subject to the next when at a loss for a seasoned argument?
Orangeduck
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Re: Easter.
Any knowledge you gain (unless you learn something that is factually incorrect) is always a good thing. I dont accept Sikhism, but I did learn a little about it. I visited a Sikh temple and bought a copy of their holy book Guru Granth Sahib. While there is a chance that I will never use the knowledge I learned about the religion, learning about it was a good thing imo :sunny:
Any knowledge you gain (unless you learn something that is factually incorrect) is always a good thing. I dont accept Sikhism, but I did learn a little about it. I visited a Sikh temple and bought a copy of their holy book Guru Granth Sahib. While there is a chance that I will never use the knowledge I learned about the religion, learning about it was a good thing imo :sunny:
Orangeduck
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Welcome to IB, Orangeduck!
Hello. I got your private message and I can't reply to it till I have 50 posts. I just wanted to tell you that so you didn't think i was ignoring you
Al-manar
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Question one :What makes you so sure that Jesus was resurrected?
Question Two : Do you believe in the bible as the inerrant(error free) word of God?
If the answer is yes , do you think the contradictions in the narratives of the resurrection (the stories that the Easter based on) could be reconciled?
one example ;
According to the writer of Matthew Mary Magdalene had been told by an angel that Jesus had risen , she had even seen Jesus and touched him after leaving the tomb ...
Matthew 28:1 After the Sabbath, at dawn on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to look at the tomb.2 There was a violent earthquake, for an angel of the Lord came down from heaven and, going to the tomb, rolled back the stone and sat on it. 3 His appearance was like lightning, and his clothes were white as snow. 4 The guards were so afraid of him that they shook and became like dead men.5 The angel said to the women, “Do not be afraid, for I know that you are looking for Jesus, who was crucified. 6 He is not here; he has risen, just as he said. Come and see the place where he lay. 7 Then go quickly and tell his disciples: ‘He has risen from the dead and is going ahead of you into Galilee. There you will see him.’ Now I have told you.”
So the women hurried away from the tomb, afraid yet filled with joy, and ran to tell his disciples. 9 Suddenly Jesus met them. “Greetings,” he said. They came to him, clasped his feet and worshiped him. 10 Then Jesus said to them, “Do not be afraid. Go and tell my brothers to go to Galilee; there they will see me.”
On the contrary the writer of John had Mary Magdalene gone to tell Peter that the body of Jesus had been stolen !!!...
John 20:1 Early on the first day of the week, while it was still dark, Mary Magdalene went to the tomb and saw that the stone had been removed from the entrance. 2 So she came running to Simon Peter and the other disciple, the one Jesus loved, and said, "They have taken the Lord out of the tomb, and we don't know where they have put him!"
If Mary Magdalene had been told by an angel that Jesus had risen and if she had even seen Jesus and touched him after leaving the tomb, why did she go tell Peter that the body of Jesus had been stolen?
Regards
Orangeduck
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I do believe Christ rose from the dead, but no one can be sure of it. In fact, when it comes to theology from any religion, no one can be sure. No muslim can be sure of the theology of Islam. No Jew can be sure of theology from Judiasm.
As for the Bible, I don't believe any book is the inerrant word of any God. When I was a Muslim, I knew that me wrote the Quran. As a Christian, I know that men wrote the Bible (about 40 different men).
As for alleged discrepancies in the resurrection story, there are hundred of websites that explain it better than I could. I tend to look at the big picture. The Bible is clear that Christ rose from the dead, and while I can't prove it (nor do I intend to try to prove it), I do choose to believe it.
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