Does God/Allah/The Creator only love Muslims ?

[CosmicPathos]

glo, let me ask you a question.

Assuming your husband is still an atheist (I am going by past memory, apologies in advance if I have mixed you with someone else), do you think the God you believe in still loves you for being in an intimate relationship, allowed by Him in the form of a marriage between a man and a woman, with a person who rejects Him? How do you reconcile the two? Are such relations allowed by the Church of England? Do you also believe that only those who believe in Jesus will be saved?

 

[~ Sabr ~]

^ Deep question...

 

[glo]

glo, let me ask you a question.

Assuming your husband is still an atheist (I am going by past memory, apologies in advance if I have mixed you with someone else), do you think the God you believe in still loves you for being in an intimate relationship, allowed by Him in the form of a marriage between a man and a woman, with a person who rejects Him? How do you reconcile the two? Are such relations allowed by the Church of England? Do you also believe that only those who believe in Jesus will be saved?

First of all, Kudos for having such a good memory, my friend.

Those are good questions, Cosmic Pathos, and I don't mind answering them.
However, firstly I don't think my answer would be appropriate for the 'Clarifications about Islam' section and secondly your questions are quite personal - so I would prefer to reply to you in private.
If that's okay with you, I will give it some thought and pm you when I have some time.

 

[Orangeduck]

Simple, Allah loves those who worship HIM the most...

.... that would be the Muslims.

Let's break this down.

Jews: They worship one day of the week, the sabbath. The rest is business as usual. The business of RIBA. Meh?

Christians, once a week too - Sunday service. But the Churches are getting emptier and emptier. And no two Christians ever gave me the same explanation of the trinity... this has got to be a BIG warning sign for Christians, are they so blind? Lent... got borrowed and improved upon by the Muslims (pardon the pun)... I don't know even one Christian who keeps lent.

Muslims, worship Allah 5 times a day, every day - no exceptions. Ramadhan - we fast the whole month. And despite the whole world having it drummed into their heads that Muslims are terrorists, we remain the most patient of people...

If Allah has ordained for you Islam, and you believe in HIM, and you have all your senses intact - then why not just perceive the reality of your own existence? and compare that to the reality of a Muslims existence... the answers should be obvious. Islam is what Allah has chosen for you. Obey. Be saved.

Scimi

What you said is not accurate at all. WIthout trying to argue, Jews and Christians pray every day. Some more than others. The Orthodox Church teaches us to say the "Jesus Prayer" over 50 times per day, which would mean the Orthodox Church loves God more than muslims do

What you are talking about is the weekly service. Muslims have a Friday service, Christians have a Sunday service, so they are equal in that respect. There is a growing trend among Protestant Churches to have 2 services a week...Wednesday and Sunday.

Your idea that muslims worship the most is completely baseless. I'm not trying to argue, but I do like to correct misconceptions and errors (please dont take offense)

As for the trinity, the 350 million Orthodox, 1.2 billion Catholics and almost all Protestants have the exact same explination of the Trinity

This thread does however, lead to something interesting that I think would be an interesting conversation. Is a deity that only loves those who worship him/her/it worthy of worship? I am not giving my opinion (not yet at least), and I bet most people here will say "yes" (and that is fine if that if your opinion), but wouldn't it be great if a deity had a universal love for all humanity?

 

[MustafaMc]

What you are talking about is the weekly service. Muslims have a Friday service, Christians have a Sunday service, so they are equal in that respect.

No, they are not equal. Technically, Muslims are supposed to offer their 5 daily salah in the masjid. I don't know the nature of prayer in the Orthodox Church, or in Judaism, but as a convert from Protestant (Baptist) Christianity, I know that the nature of prayer is qualitatively different from Islam.

 

[Insaanah]

Greetings Orangeduck

The Orthodox Church teaches us to say the "Jesus Prayer" over 50 times per day, which would mean the Orthodox Church loves God more than muslims do

No. Not according to Islam:

http://www.islamicboard.com/clarifi...-creator-only-love-muslims-2.html#post1518176

Also in the Jesus prayer, you are asking Jesus (peace be upon him) to have mercy on you. As Muslims, we do remembrance of Allah, (zhikr) glorifying and praising Him, asking forgiveness and mercy, throughout the day, as well as prayers/supplications for entering the bathroom, exiting, putting on clothes, entering/leaving the house, before embarking on a journey, for starting any lawful act, on top of the five compulsory prayers, which comes to a lot more than 50 times a day.

We try to emulate the Prophet :saws:

Narrated Abu Huraira: I heard Allah's Apostle :saws: saying." By Allah! I ask for forgiveness from Allah and turn to Him in repentance more than seventy times a day."
(Sahih al Bukhari Vol. 8, Book 75, Hadith 319)

Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle :saws: said, "Whoever says, 'Subhan Allah wa bihamdihi,' one hundred times a day, will be forgiven all his sins even if they were as much as the foam of the sea.
(Sahih al Bukhari : Vol. 8, Book 75, Hadith 414)

Se this post too: http://www.islamicboard.com/discover-islam/134312696-islamic-spirituality.html#post1513998

What you are talking about is the weekly service. Muslims have a Friday service, Christians have a Sunday service, so they are equal in that respect.

If you refer to formal prayers in the mosque, led by an imam, then we have that five times a day, not once a week..

Is a deity that only loves those who worship him/her/it worthy of worship? I am not giving my opinion (not yet at least), and I bet most people here will say "yes" (and that is fine if that if your opinion), but wouldn't it be great if a deity had a universal love for all humanity?

Justice is paramount.

 

[Orangeduck]

No, they are not equal. Technically, Muslims are supposed to offer their 5 daily salah in the masjid. I don't know the nature of prayer in the Orthodox Church, or in Judaism, but as a convert from Protestant (Baptist) Christianity, I know that the nature of prayer is qualitatively different from Islam.

The nature of prayer is the same, but Christians and muslims pray differently. They both pray to honor God and ask for things they need.

And when I said "equal" I was talking about the weekly obligation. Muslims go to a mosque 1 time per week, and Christians go to a Church 1 time per week (but as I said, many Protestants now go 2 times per week ).

If you want to talk about the number of times Christians and muslims pray, then Christians win by a landslide.

Peace

 

[Orangeduck]

Greetings Orangeduck



No. Not according to Islam:

http://www.islamicboard.com/clarifi...-creator-only-love-muslims-2.html#post1518176

Also in the Jesus prayer, you are asking Jesus (peace be upon him) to have mercy on you. As Muslims, we do remembrance of Allah, (zhikr) glorifying and praising Him, asking forgiveness and mercy, throughout the day, as well as prayers/supplications for entering the bathroom, exiting, putting on clothes, entering/leaving the house, before embarking on a journey, for starting any lawful act, on top of the five compulsory prayers, which comes to a lot more than 50 times a day.

We try to emulate the Prophet :saws:

Narrated Abu Huraira: I heard Allah's Apostle :saws: saying." By Allah! I ask for forgiveness from Allah and turn to Him in repentance more than seventy times a day."
(Sahih al Bukhari Vol. 8, Book 75, Hadith 319)

Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle :saws: said, "Whoever says, 'Subhan Allah wa bihamdihi,' one hundred times a day, will be forgiven all his sins even if they were as much as the foam of the sea.
(Sahih al Bukhari : Vol. 8, Book 75, Hadith 414)

Se this post too: http://www.islamicboard.com/discover-islam/134312696-islamic-spirituality.html#post1513998



If you refer to formal prayers in the mosque, led by an imam, then we have that five times a day, not once a week..



Justice is paramount.

In America and Europe, with full time jobs, virtually no muslim prays 5 times a day, let alone over 50

In Christianity, prayer can be done in seconds and in silence.

Again, I don't intent to argue

You don't understand what the Jesus Prayer is. It it a prayer to the One True God

 

[Insaanah]

In America and Europe, with full time jobs, virtually no muslim prays 5 times a day, let alone over 50

This is completely false, as is this:

Muslims go to a mosque 1 time per week,

They go five times a day, with those who cannot due to work, going at least two to three times a day, with the in between prayers said at work.

and as is this:

If you want to talk about the number of times Christians and muslims pray, then Christians win by a landslide.

Again, completely false.

In Christianity, prayer can be done in seconds and in silence.

As can certain prayers in Islam, as I explained above, and as you habitually ignored.

You don't understand what the Jesus Prayer is. It it a prayer to the One True God

It is prayer to Jesus (peace be upon him). If you believe he's the one true God then you must also deal with the consequences of those beliefs.

Sahih International
And [beware the Day] when Allah will say, "O Jesus, Son of Mary, did you say to the people, 'Take me and my mother as deities besides Allah ?'" He will say, "Exalted are You! It was not for me to say that to which I have no right. If I had said it, You would have known it. You know what is within myself, and I do not know what is within Yourself. Indeed, it is You who is Knower of the unseen.
I said not to them except what You commanded me - to worship Allah , my Lord and your Lord. And I was a witness over them as long as I was among them; but when You took me up, You were the Observer over them, and You are, over all things, Witness.
If You should punish them - indeed they are Your servants; but if You forgive them - indeed it is You who is the Exalted in Might, the Wise. (5:116-118)

Again, I don't intent to argue

Good, glad to hear it.

Peace.

 

[Abz2000]

I guess what I am asking can one follow Allah (and hence be a Muslim in Allah's eyes) but not follow Islam (in the eyes of Muslims)?

can anyone follow laws other than those of the land you are in and not be labelled "fundamentalist" / "refuses to integrate" / criminal?

verily the earth belongs to God.

 

[MustafaMc]

The nature of prayer is the same, but Christians and muslims pray differently. They both pray to honor God and ask for things they need.

No, the prayers are qualitatively different. We do not pray to 'ask for things we need' that is du'a or supplications that are entirely separate issue from salah although I often make du'a when I am in prostration during salah. We perform salah in the exact same manner that Prophet Muhammad (saaws) did 1,400 years ago. For example, we recite portions of the Quran in the revealed language, Arabic, including Surah Al-Fatiha at least 17 times a day.

We stand and say Allahu akbar (Allah is Great), then recite Surah Al-Fatiha before reciting another surah.

Bismi Allahi irrahmani irraheem (In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.)
Alhamdu lillahi rabbi alAAalameen (Praise be to Allah, Lord of the Worlds,)
Irrahmani irraheem (The Beneficent, the Merciful.)
Maliki yawmid-deen (Master of the Day of Judgment,)
Iyyaka na'AAbudu wa iyyaka nastaAAeen (Thee (alone) we worship; Thee (alone) we ask for help.)
Ihdina ssirata almustaqeem (Show us the straight path,)
Sirata allatheena anAAamta AAalayhim ghayri almaghdoobi AAalayhim wala ddalleen (The path of those whom Thou hast favoured; Not the (path) of those who earn Thine anger nor of those who go astray.)

There are other elements of prayer that are performed the same by Mulsims the world over according to the Sunnah of Muhammad (saaws).

And when I said "equal" I was talking about the weekly obligation. Muslims go to a mosque 1 time per week, and Christians go to a Church 1 time per week (but as I said, many Protestants now go 2 times per week ).

Again, no we are supposed to (obligation) perform the 5 daily prayers in the masjid. When we had an active masjid in the city I live in, I would often go for dawn and night prayers on most days.

If you want to talk about the number of times Christians and muslims pray, then Christians win by a landslide.

I would have to say that this claim is completely baseless.

 

[MustafaMc]

In America and Europe, with full time jobs, virtually no muslim prays 5 times a day, let alone over 50

I live in USA and I pray 5X every day, including 2 at work.

 

[جوري]

I don't know any observant working Muslims who don't utilize their lunch break or bathroom breaks to offer prayers.. I hate when ducks are canards unless in a confit!

 

[Zabel]

No, they are not equal. Technically, Muslims are supposed to offer their 5 daily salah in the masjid. I don't know the nature of prayer in the Orthodox Church, or in Judaism, but as a convert from Protestant (Baptist) Christianity, I know that the nature of prayer is qualitatively different from Islam.

What you know (Baptist) is qualitatively different from the Orthodox Church and Judaism. The latter are much richer in praises, scripture use, meaning, etc. It's like comparing a Baptist service to a Catholic service that lasts 2-3 hours (which Orthodox and at least some Jewish services do). You might consider looking into the Divine Office or Liturgy of the Hours.

 

[جوري]

What you know (Baptist) is qualitatively different from the Orthodox Church and Judaism. The latter are much richer in praises, scripture use, meaning, etc. It's like comparing a Baptist service to a Catholic service that lasts 2-3 hours (which Orthodox and at least some Jewish services do). You might consider looking into the Divine Office or Liturgy of the Hours.

Jewish prayers resemble that of Muslims (somewhat)

However, there's no point to regressing. It is like offering someone inferior brand HDCV x 20 when you can offer them that which is more effective and direct times 3..

best,

 

[Zabel]

What you know (Baptist) is qualitatively different from the Orthodox Church and Judaism. The latter are much richer in praises, scripture use, meaning, etc. It's like comparing a Baptist service to a Catholic service that lasts 2-3 hours (which Orthodox and at least some Jewish services do). You might consider looking into the Divine Office or Liturgy of the Hours.

In Judaism, there are a lot of prayers saying blessings for God. Blessed are You, oh L-rd our G-d, King of the Universe, who brings forth... Divine Hours uses scripture like chapters of Psalms, and parts of Acts along with hymns that have more depth than much modern Christian pop music, and various praises being proclaimed.

 

[Zabel]

Jewish prayers resemble that of Muslims (somewhat)

Nice video. Coptic Christians look like that too during some of the Holy Week services when they prostrate, though my Hebrew is not good enough to recognize the prayer here for verbal comparison.

 

[جوري]

I am quite familiar with Coptic prayers and it isn't that much different from the standard run of the mill orthodox ones. I think you mistaken 'Coptic' to denote something other than what is apparent to the rest of us. Coptic merely means Egyptian.. they were Copts during the time of Moses as they were during the reign of amon ra.. Of course much of western style christianity was fashioned after that 'sun god' isis/osiris mythology so I can understand your enthusiasm.

best,

 

[Zabel]

I am quite familiar with Coptic prayers and it isn't that much different from the standard run of the mill orthodox ones. I think you mistaken 'Coptic' to denote something other than what is apparent to the rest of us. Coptic merely means Egyptian.. they were Copts during the time of Moses as they were during the reign of amon ra.. Of course much of western style christianity was fashioned after that 'sun god' isis/osiris mythology so I can understand your enthusiasm.

best,

I meant the Coptic as in Coptic Orthodox, the Miaphysite/Oriental Orthodox church that uses Arabic and Coptic languages and has many stylistic differences to the non-denominational and Baptist churches I have been to. It is relatively run of the mill for an Orthodox church, though they are only one that I have heard of prostrating so far, which was my main point.

I'm curious about your sentence, "Of course much of western style christianity was fashioned after that 'sun god' isis/osiris mythology so I can understand your enthusiasm." As my recent post was the distinguish a bit from some of the modern western style Christianity, can you please clarify what you mean? Please forgive me if this is a silly question. This is not my easiest way of communicating.

 

[جوري]

I meant the Coptic as in Coptic Orthodox, the Miaphysite/Oriental Orthodox church that uses Arabic and Coptic languages and has many stylistic differences to the non-denominational and Baptist churches I have been to. It is relatively run of the mill for an Orthodox church, though they are only one that I have heard of prostrating so far, which was my main point.

I know what you meant and I wanted to clarify that what you take for granted to mean Christian could probably fly with the Christians of Egypt and their supporters in the U.S but it has no meaning otherwise for us as middle easterners..also 'coptic' language doesn't really exist. They mainly use Arabic, demotic the ancient language of the Copts of Egypt of whom 90% are now Muslim is now largely dead!

I'm curious about your sentence, "Of course much of western style christianity was fashioned after that 'sun god' isis/osiris mythology so I can understand your enthusiasm." As my recent post was the distinguish a bit from some of the modern western style Christianity, can you please clarify what you mean? Please forgive me if this is a silly question. This is not my easiest way of communicating.

It means the whole virgin birth, 'sun God' son of God largely Paganistic rituals of christianity have come from those Egyptian beliefs and probably even an amalgamation of some Sumerian ones. I don't consider modern Judaism or Christianity to be monotheistic.

best