O ummah, for how much longer?

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What abt the little kids. They are fair game as well? It doesn't matter if they all are required to undergo military training. What matters is who is holding guns and shooting. Those are the IDF's. They are your targets. Spare the civilians please.
so far the only kids I see targeted are Palestenian ones so I am not really big on a hypothetical but please allow me to use the line of Madeleine Albright 'collateral damage' in the face of the greater good. So maybe you can let go of that self righteous humbug now?


YES, I am; but not a proud one, instead, a thankful one.
what the hell does that even mean?


I know my views do not go well with everyone. So much more being a Muslim. But my views are not meant to please anyone, not even myself. Sometimes, we need to look at things from the "OTHER" perspective rather than just "OURS" so that our conclusions are not biased. Therefore, Muslims and non-Muslims who only look at things from their perspectives alone abhor my views.
yes I've looked at the other point of view and found it to follow that path of the devil and fulfills his purpose of destruction, division and injustice do maybe the point of view is about right and wrong not what the other perspective is. I am not personally into empathizing with criminals if that counts for something in your book then your book is worthless. Your liege should be to justice and truth not parroting for me the same crappy 'rhetoric' that the 'other' guy dishes daily.
Ugh أعوذ بالله من النفاق ومن امثالكم
 
IDF and Islamic militants whose rockets and suicide attacks killed innocent people

Islamic militants? You mean the ones who have been driven out of their homeland and pushed to one corner (Gaza) like bag of trash, deprived of basic human needs? These are the same people who have to dig tunnels underground to bring food into Gaza, so they can feed their families but even then the Zionists come in with their F16's and bomb them to oblivion.

________

If someone came into your property, pointed a gun at you and and said "Get out..if not i'm going to force you out, This is our land, we belong here as our holy book says so" What would you do? Lay down or fight for what is yours?

Because what the Palestinians are doing right now are fighting for their homeland and freedom and no one can criticism them for that.

two wrongs don't make a right. So you are saying, it's okay to target Israeli civilians because IDF targets Palestinian civilians??

Hamas do not target Civilians, you must understand the rockets they fire are home made. They do not have laser guided precision like the F16s fighter jets the Israeli devil forces use. If anyone is guilty of targeting and systematically killing Palestinians its the Zionists, look back to 2009 when over a 1,000 people, mostly children were slaughtered, Poisonous nuclear phosphorous bombs raining down on them, Mosques, schools..even medical centers demolished due to them being bombed.

Who's targeting civilians i ask? Even a blind man can see whats going on.

America and Israel are military powers.

Correction, Military powers who have been humiliated time and time again by the true Mujahideen/Resistance in Gaza, Afghanistan and Iraq.

Rockets are not gonna win back Palestine anytime soon. A true good leader would have won it decades ago without firing a single rocket

What do you expect the Palestinians to do? Suffer silently whilst the Ummah (Me included) and world ignores their plight? The only leader who had a chance of winning Palestine back or broker some sort of deal was Yasser Arafat but look what happened to him, The Zionists murdered him by poisoning him.
 
لميس;1521624 said:
so far the only kids I see targeted are Palestenian ones so I am not really big on a hypothetical but please allow me to use the line of Madeleine Albright 'collateral damage' in the face of the greater good.

In that case, Palestinian kids are also "collateral damage". You have more Palestinian kids die because these so-called Mujahids hide around them when they run. Instead of fighting from the front they hide in civilian places and then cry foul.

لميس;1521624 said:
what the hell does that even mean?

A lot of Muslims around here say that they are "Proud to be a Muslim" although Allah has clearly said in the Qur'an that he dislikes pride . Therefore all I was saying was that I am a thankful Muslim not a proud one.

لميس;1521624 said:
Your liege should be to justice and truth not parroting for me the same crappy 'rhetoric'

I could say exactly the same thing to you.

Islamic militants? You mean

I mean those who killed INNOCENT civilians.

They do not have laser guided precision

That's exactly why they should not fire them. Unless you know your targets are IDF, you are deliberately putting civilian lives at risk. Closing your eyes and firing a rocket doesn't make you any better than those who precisely aim at you.

true Mujahideen

very hard to find TRUE Mujahideen now-a-days. The likes of Hazrat Ali r.a and all. What you have today is brainwashed and emotional cowards who are so cowardly that instead of blowing themselves of up in a military base, they deliberately choose soft targets and kill women and children. However, those who give their lives reaching the military bases and actually kill the military, salute to them. They do not die. They live forever.
 
In that case, Palestinian kids are also "collateral damage". You have more Palestinian kids die because these so-called Mujahids hide around them when they run. Instead of fighting from the front they hide in civilian places and then cry foul.
Firstly I don't accept the premise you've spun to create an exit out of your nonsense. It is not compatible with Islamic principles to target the old, the crippled, women or children & I haven't read any reports of Israeli children being targeted as it would be on the news around the clock! Secondly that's exactly what they call OUR children when they turn them int a deliberate target. And they brain wash even their own little satanist kids to do just that:
israelichildrensigningbombintendedforleb-1.jpg


ahh aren't they adorable?

heard of the American turd who killed over 244 civilians? he was just on Bill O'Reilly. He called the Savages and Barbarians, women going to the market with their kids elderly etc. When O'Reilly said well what do they think of you, he said he didn't give a ****, and given O'Reilly's disposition to 'not able to kill all Muslims so we got to win hearts & minds' he was rather happy with his guest who had medals not taken for a trial for being war criminal. So what do you want? Exactly what do you want? Have you a clue how many Iraqi, Palestinian, Chechen, Bosnian, Afghani etc. etc. children killed up to date? Sure they call them collateral damage so what's your point? It is about avoidance of an ugly term in your book? Are you for real?


A lot of Muslims around here say that they are "Proud to be a Muslim" although Allah has clearly said in the Qur'an that he dislikes pride . Therefore all I was saying was that I am a thankful Muslim not a proud one.
This has no relevance to the topic nor the crap you spew.


I could say exactly the same thing to you.
You've been doing nothing but parroting stuff for the devil, so again what's your point?
 
very hard to find TRUE Mujahideen now-a-days. The likes of Hazrat Ali r.a and all. What you have today is brainwashed and emotional cowards who are so cowardly that instead of blowing themselves of up in a military base, they deliberately choose soft targets and kill women and children. However, those who give their lives reaching the military bases and actually kill the military, salute to them. They do not die. They live forever.

Atleast they've the courage and passion to fight the invaders, unlike you sitting behind the pc slandering and spewing propaganda against the mujahideen of our ummah who fight against oppressors and the hypocrites. May Allah(SWT) guide you. Ameen.

You are the result of a muslim who is believing in dajjal's propaganda and you wont get out of it until you help yourself, i hope the best for you Insha'Allah.

Regarding the mujahideen tactics qua blowing themselves up, we have no right to speak about on that let the scholars judge. I can't see if thats haram or permissible. But point is you are believing too much propaganda, the mujahideen aren't reponsible for civilian killings as the western media claims. infact have you heard about false flag operations with help of USA-puppet governments? So the mujahideen can be blamed? They did it many times in afghanistan and pakistan by placing car bombs nearby masjids and blamed the mujahideen for that while government-backed militia's were responsible for it.

U should be aware that 90% of the palestinians support hamas, the others support Fatah, but both have merged together now, what a glorious defeat towards the zionists Masha'Allah
 
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I mean those who killed INNOCENT civilians.

You can mean what you want but the facts are 'Islamic Militants' do not target or deliberately kill innocent civilians, they aim for military bases/army personnel. Proof is in the number of illegal settlers killed, which is barely up to double figures

That's exactly why they should not fire them. Unless you know your targets are IDF, you are deliberately putting civilian lives at risk.

What about the Zionists who put the lives of thousands of Palestinians at risk? If they are wounded or killed, people of your ilk like to call it 'collateral damage' so whats the difference between them and Israeli's who's supposed lives are being put at risk?

Closing your eyes and firing a rocket doesn't make you any better than those who precisely aim at you.

Closing your eyes and aiming a rocket at the very people who are killing and oppressing you is better then staying silent.
You provoke a people, don't expect them to lie down and take it.

Very hard to find TRUE Mujahideen now-a-days. The likes of Haz rat Ali r.a and all. What you have today is brainwashed and emotional cowards who are so cowardly that instead of blowing themselves of up in a military base, they deliberately choose soft targets and kill women and children. However, those who give their lives reaching the military bases and actually kill the military, salute to them. They do not die. They live forever.

I agree to a certain extent. When i meant Mujahideen, i didn't mean Al Qaeda or Taliban per se as no one knows who they truly are..Only Allah knows..I meant the individuals who are unknown to us and who are fighting for their country with dignity, those are true Mujahideen.
 
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I agree to a certain extent. When i meant Mujahideen, i didn't mean Al Qaeda or Taliban per se as no one knows who they truly are..Only Allah knows..I meant the individuals who are unknown to us and who are fighting for their country with dignity, those are true Mujahideen.

Taliban don't target civilians, i've visited their site which i won't post here :) But they've made it clear that they won't target civilians, all these false flag operations are done by western-backed militias or blackwater. Divide and conquer you get me?
 
لميس;1521666 said:
satanist kids

The hatred that you spew out is just outstanding. Anger and hatred only will bring upon your own downfall. We Muslims need to to learn how to manage our anger and emotions and make opinions with rational minds. People like you are the very problem with us - who are so engulfed in hatred that it is saddening. One should not throw stones at others if one lives in a greenhouse. Forget pictures, I can post videos here of Palestinian kids yelling Death to the Jews/Israelis and talking about martyrdom but I am not gonna do that.


لميس;1521666 said:
heard of the American turd who killed over 244 civilians? he was just on Bill O'Reilly

I don't watch FOX News. Nor could I care what they have to say.

لميس;1521666 said:
Have you a clue how many Iraqi, Palestinian, Chechen, Bosnian, Afghani etc. etc. children killed up to date?

Yes, I know. Why are you mentioning this. How is this relevant to Palestinian-Israel conflict we are talking abt. So Israeli civilians are responsible for the death of all of Muslim children all over the world??
 
Taliban don't target civilians

Civilian to them is those who follow their strict version of radical Islam. If you don't have a beard or listen to music. You are no longer a civilian to them and legitimate targets. Pakistani Taliban have claimed responsibilities for a number of suicide attacks on Pakistani soil. So not sure what Taliban you are talking abt.
 
You have more Palestinian kids die because these so-called Mujahids hide around them when they run. Instead of fighting from the front they hide in civilian places and then cry foul.

Do you have any idea how populated Gaza is? Wherever the Mujahideen are, there will always be Men, women and children around! There's nowhere to hide as Gaza is like an open prison

All these false flag operations are done by western-backed militias or blackwater. Divide and conquer you get me?

Yes, Most bombings are likely to be false flag operations. Allah knows best
 
The hatred that you spew out is just outstanding. Anger and hatred only will bring upon your own downfall. We Muslims need to to learn how to manage our anger and emotions and make opinions with rational minds. People like you are the very problem with us - who are so engulfed in hatred that it is saddening. One should not throw stones at others if one lives in a greenhouse. Forget pictures, I can post videos here of Palestinian kids yelling Death to the Jews/Israelis and talking about martyrdom but I am not gonna do that.
Stating the obvious is hatred spewed in your book? I don't know of the brand of Islam you subscribe to but I have no desire to adhere to your version of events. You're engulfed with apathy and he who doesn't care for the affairs of the ummah or feels for the condition of Muslims isn't one of them. You shed tears over the hypothetical Israeli children killed but don't bat an eyelash when a filthy sniper takes out 244 civilians. You feel nothing because your heart is dead. So please don't come teach the rest of us how we should feel. You're no example to live by!



I don't watch FOX News. Nor could I care what they have to say.
Yes, I can see that and it explains why you're clueless!



Yes, I know. Why are you mentioning this. How is this relevant to Palestinian-Israel conflict we are talking abt. So Israeli civilians are responsible for the death of all of Muslim children all over the world??
Indeed they're.. the condition of Muslims including after the so-called Arab springs goes back to Amero/Israeli interests in the region.
Can you hold an independent thought that doesn't loan itself to some form of brain wash or premised from something someone else has written but taken to denote the opposite of what is factual?
 
May Allah(SWT) guide you. Ameen.

Ameen. May Allah(SWT) guide us all to the right path. Ameen.

Atleast they've the courage and passion to fight the invaders
a select
Sadly we use our courage and passion only to fight. If we were smart and united we wouldn't be in this situation in the first place. We Muslims brought this upon ourselves. SADDAM gassed his own people and was stupid enough to risk his country in front of America for his own ego. NOT SMART. The Taliban sheltered Osama knowing that America is after him and will do anything to get him. Had they given him up?? Just imagine. If the NOT SO SMART Taliban had given him up. There wouldn't have been any invasion. Our leaders endanger their whole population for a select few. Just to protect that ONE OSAMA, how many lives did we lose. A good leader would have been rational and would have thought about all the consequences.

We need to evolve through times. U know we are no longer the military might we once were. Let's do jihad with our intellect and with our minds instead of with swords. Once again, we need rational leaders. Look at the leaders that we had. MUBARAK in Egypt. Assad in Syria. Gadafi in Libya. SADDAM in Iraq. All iron fist dictators. Our leaders betrayed us. Nobody else.
 
Cashew, it doesn't require an individual to have any sort of high intellect to assess this situation as just complete atrocities being committed on the victims of Palestine. Forget the emotional aspect of this, just even from a simple rational perspective. Regardless of rockets or whatever else being thrown from the Palestinian side.. which i highly doubt commit even the slightest amount of damage that has been caused upon them... simple scenario : imagine individuals demolishing your house.... are you no longer the victim if you decide to defend yourself and not be a silent sheep ? i know each person is entitled to their own opinion but i just cannot comprehend how a person, especially a Muslim, can even see this from their brainwashed perspective...
 
Ameen. May Allah(SWT) guide us all to the right path. Ameen.


a select
Sadly we use our courage and passion only to fight. If we were smart and united we wouldn't be in this situation in the first place. We Muslims brought this upon ourselves. SADDAM gassed his own people and was stupid enough to risk his country in front of America for his own ego. NOT SMART. The Taliban sheltered Osama knowing that America is after him and will do anything to get him. Had they given him up?? Just imagine. If the NOT SO SMART Taliban had given him up. There wouldn't have been any invasion. Our leaders endanger their whole population for a select few. Just to protect that ONE OSAMA, how many lives did we lose. A good leader would have been rational and would have thought about all the consequences.

We need to evolve through times. U know we are no longer the military might we once were. Let's do jihad with our intellect and with our minds instead of with swords. Once again, we need rational leaders. Look at the leaders that we had. MUBARAK in Egypt. Assad in Syria. Gadafi in Libya. SADDAM in Iraq. All iron fist dictators. Our leaders betrayed us. Nobody else.

A jihad with mind and intellect won't help anymore either, our ummah is in great danger, we are oppressed by tyrants, its time to overthrow them, not just with words but action. The taliban didn't give up Osama bin laden (May Allah grant him highest rank of jannah. Ameen) because that would be a very big betrayal between brothers. Kinda nonsense you made this statement.

Saddam was always a puppet of USA, but during the first gulf war he attacked israel thats why they needed to replace him with other puppet(The current iraqi government is still on orders from USA)

They knew if saddam liberated saudi occupied arabia that no more oil would be transported towards israel and the west. I'm not a supporter of saddam, because he has done bad things. He was baathist either. so...

I agree with you that we brought this upon ourselves and we are paying for it now. We need to battle our ownself and prepare. Many muslims have thrown away this idea and are waiting for the mahdi. Its time now, not when he arrives.

The only thing i went against you is because u made some foolish statements and all can be rebuttled with some studies.

Civilian to them is those who follow their strict version of radical Islam. If you don't have a beard or listen to music. You are no longer a civilian to them and legitimate targets. Pakistani Taliban have claimed responsibilities for a number of suicide attacks on Pakistani soil. So not sure what Taliban you are talking abt.


Afghan taliban, but they are also divided in groups after the US invasion and the taliban is not the only resistance group there. they are divided per region/district. Pakistani taliban the same, there are western backed mercenaries but also true mujahids between them. radical islam is in my eyes a western joke. Or you follow islam or you dont. There is no ''moderate'' islam. Many Afghans are known for supporting taliban even women. Taliban didn't forbid girls going to school. U should read their statement against these lies.

Taliban was created during great turmoil after the soviets left. It started all when communist afghans suddenly attacked the muslims. These same communist afghans are in the police forces and Afghan army now.
 
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Cashew, it doesn't require an individual to have any sort of high intellect to assess this situation as just complete atrocities being committed on the victims of Palestine.

Dear Sis, I am not sure how did I give the impression that I don't recognize the atrocities being committed against the Palestinians. Never did I say anything like that. In fact, I greatly condemn such atrocities. I swear I cry I every time I see those videos on youtube. My only cry is that please do not be like those who oppress you. If they kill your children, do not do the same. That's all.
 
We need to evolve through times. U know we are no longer the military might we once were. Let's do jihad with our intellect and with our minds instead of with swords. Once again, we need rational leaders. Look at the leaders that we had. MUBARAK in Egypt. Assad in Syria. Gadafi in Libya. SADDAM in Iraq. All iron fist dictators. Our leaders betrayed us. Nobody else.

I'm not Palestinian. Libyan. Iraqi or Egyptian. As a matter of fact, I grew up in the United States and as you know from a previous discussion that I had with you on the message board I used to be a journalist and report the news. Once I got my foot in the door at the major news networks and I saw just how clueless the journalists were about the situation at hand I began to question a lot of things. You know something is wrong when there are articles being put online that say one thing when you send them in by deadline but paint an entirely different picture by the time they are printed for the public to see. I'm not saying that every news article that comes out about this conflict is wrong but many of them that I read do in fact have an agenda.

But I suppose you won't listen to anything that I say either because I am a woman and you don't value my opinion or simply because I had a change of heart while actually working with some of the major news networks in the U.S. I never shared my revert story on this message board but I used to hate Islam and I used to hate Muslims. I thought that the U.S. could do no wrong and that Palestinians had no right to that land and they were all terrorists. Much of this I learned from watching news networks and being indoctrinated to believe this in public schools that all "Islamists" are bad and oppressive and I felt sorry for anyone who was a Muslim--especially the women.

Now, it's actually been a little over 1 year since I became a Muslim, alhamdulillah, and I do have a background in international politics with an emphasis especially on areas of intelligence within the agencies. My dear brother you have to be very blind if you think that it was simply those "leaders" who failed the people. Do you realize that in order to protect the U.S. interests, this country has the power to put people in office who will comply to what they want? It is no secret and the U.S. takes pride in it. I used to marvel at how much power the U.S. has on the global political landscape and I actually wanted to work for one of the agencies to help rid the world of Islam and other religions or countries that try to get in the way. Astagfirullah.

But after I learned about the Israeli-Palestianian conflict I realized that something was very wrong with my views and that there was an entire side of the story that I really had no idea about. It set in and burned into my brain even more after I visited the holocaust museum in D.C. because I saw some similarities between the stories of the people who lived to tell it there and what was happening in Palestine. It simply wasn't right.

I guess the problem that I have with what you're saying as a Muslim is that it's a lot of what I said in my days of ignorance. I understand that intelligence and not the sword should be used to fight against the occupation of Palestine but I don't think you have any right to post on this message board and say they're not smart for even using the sword because you're not in that position. Do you really think you would not jump to take up arms if your family was killed by some arrogant soldier? Even though I consider myself a calm person I can't even say that I would fight with my intellect from the start. I feel for them now more than I ever had in the past now that I became a Muslim and I cry for them knowing what is happening and knowing that I am in no position to help at this point and time. It is something about this Ummah that I am now apart of to make me feel such strong emotions for people that I don't know...

Yeah, you're right about the intellect. But it makes no sense to me why you would bash them when there is an entire country that should KNOW BETTER than to even think of oppressing an entire group of people like this! Especially after what happened to them. There is no excuse. Even the UN knows it.

I guess I just don't feel comfortable with you is all, Cashew. If some federal agency came to pick me up from a picnic in the park with sisters from the masjid alleging I was involved in some type of terror activity earlier that day even though you saw me earlier that day at the exact time and place they said that it happened because the masjid took everyone out for a hike that morning, I feel like you'd point them right over to arrest me simply because they said I did it despite that fact that you saw me and you knew that I didn't do it. I feel like you would believe them over me and even what your own eyes see.
 
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^^^ you know that African American convert brothers whose lectures I posted here and linked you to (a former military man) is now taken in on terrorism charges. Just google him. I think some 'Muslims' here think that if they become 'moderates' whatever that term entails, that somehow they're exempt. The Fellow teaches Arabic and Fiqh.. so you tell me what crime this father of 12 committed? It is just a matter of time before they make it illegal to be Muslim.. How many more of our rights should we give up for the sons of pigs to be satisfied?..
 

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