Domestic Violence: Why Women Endure?
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'Abd-al Latif
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InshaaAllah I'm going to reply to this thread when my Internet is back on (my Internet is currently unavailable).
And without having to make myself seem biased towards anyone, the saying that the most hated thing to Allah is divorce is a hadith, it is saheeh and it is found in Abu Dawood and other books.
There are also some misunderstandings in the last post which again I will address later.
Furthermore, it is not fair and just to demonise all brothers because of what some men do. There are some who fear Allah and are conscious of their duty towards their spouse so do not assume all brothers are abusive.
I am against abuse and mistreatment, i condemn it and speak against it. But I am of the belief of cause and effect: there is no smoke without a fire. Sometimes problems in marriage arise due ignorance of the Islamic rights from one or both spouses, culture, family or peer pressure, immaturity, lack of commitment and many other problems. I do not place the entire blame to either gender but a combination of mounting problems from both ends causes problems that sometimes leads to violence.
Whatever the case, do not assume one gender is the cause of all the problems.
And without having to make myself seem biased towards anyone, the saying that the most hated thing to Allah is divorce is a hadith, it is saheeh and it is found in Abu Dawood and other books.
There are also some misunderstandings in the last post which again I will address later.
Furthermore, it is not fair and just to demonise all brothers because of what some men do. There are some who fear Allah and are conscious of their duty towards their spouse so do not assume all brothers are abusive.
I am against abuse and mistreatment, i condemn it and speak against it. But I am of the belief of cause and effect: there is no smoke without a fire. Sometimes problems in marriage arise due ignorance of the Islamic rights from one or both spouses, culture, family or peer pressure, immaturity, lack of commitment and many other problems. I do not place the entire blame to either gender but a combination of mounting problems from both ends causes problems that sometimes leads to violence.
Whatever the case, do not assume one gender is the cause of all the problems.
Insaanah
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Regarding the hadeeth:
Some view it as da'eef (mursal). See here for more information: http://islamqa.info/en/ref/120761/divorce hated
And Allah knows best.
muslimah bird
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I think the right understanding of hadith is “ Most hated of the allowable things to Allaah is the divorce.”
'Abd-al Latif
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:wasalamex
Even if some class it as weak, the meaning and what can be derived from this hadeeth is correct. Shaykh uthaymeen has also said this in the link you provided.
Shaykh Ibn ‘Uthaymeen (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: It is narrated that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “The most hated of permissible things to Allaah is divorce.” This hadeeth is not saheeh, but its meaning is sound: Allaah hates divorce, but He does not forbid it to His slaves, so as to make things easier for them. If there is a legitimate shar’i or regular reason for divorce, then it is permissible and depends on the likely outcome of keeping this woman as one's wife. If keeping her will lead to something that is contrary to sharee’ah which cannot be avoided except by divorcing her, such as if the woman is lacking in religious commitment or chastity, and the husband cannot set her straight, then in this case we say that it is better to divorce. But if there is no shar’i reason or ordinary reason, then it is better not to divorce, rather in that case divorce is makrooh.
Liqaa’aat al-baab il-Maftooh, no. 55, question no. 3
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'Abd-al Latif
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Yes. This is my point.
Rhubarb Tart
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Well it is true. More women die at the hands of male relative. Anyways, why are brothers being defensive? We are talking about minority of men who commit this crime, less than 2%?
Rhubarb Tart
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List of help for people (UK):
Male Victims: Mankind Initiative: http://www.mankind.org.uk/
Emergency measures
In case of emergency, call 999 for police or an ambulance.
The websites and helplines below can offer help and advice on how to stay safe and how to get access to emergency refuge accommodation. They can also offer advice if you are worried about the safety of someone close to you.
National Domestic Violence Freephone Helpline
• To talk to someone in confidence for support, information or an emergency referral to temporary accommodation, contact the free 24 hour National Domestic Violence Helpline.
• Helpline: 0808 2000 247
• Website: www.nationaldomesticviolencehelpline.org.uk/
National Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children (NSPCC)
A free, confidential service for anyone concerned about children at risk, including children themselves. The service offers counselling, information and advice.
• Helpline: 0808 800 5000
• Website: www.nspcc.org.uk
Northern Ireland Women’s Aid Domestic Violence Helpline
If you’re based in Northern Ireland and you need to talk to someone in confidence call the 24 hour helpline run by Women’s Aid, a voluntary organisation providing services for women and children in Northern Ireland.
• Helpline: 0800 917 1414
• Web: www.niwaf.org
Samaritans
Confidential support 24 hours a day for people who are experiencing distress or despair, and feelings that could lead to suicide.
• UK and Northern Ireland helpline: 08457 90 90 90
• Republic of Ireland helpline: 1850 60 90 90
• Website: www.samaritans.org.uk
Scottish Domestic Abuse Helpline
If you’re based in Scotland and you need to talk to someone in confidence call the 24 hour Domestic Abuse Helpline run by Scottish Women’s Aid, the lead organisation working towards the prevention of domestic abuse in Scotland.
• Helpline: 0800 027 1234
• Website: www.scottishwomensaid.org.uk
Wales Domestic Abuse Helpline
The national free support and information service for women, children and men in Wales who are experiencing or who have experienced abuse at the hands of someone close to them. To talk to someone in confidence, call the 24 hour helpline.
• Helpline: 0808 80 10 800
• Website: www.wdah.org
Nour
Due to very limited resources at Nour we are currently unable to provide a helpline directly to us and advise any one looking for help regarding domestic violence from an Islamic Advisor or Legal Advisor to use our Advisors Contact Form. However, we have managed to partner with the Muslim Community Helpline who you can contact if you require immediate help. The Muslim Community Helpline has been in operation since March 2007 and aims to provide a listening and emotional support service for members of the community. Please be sure to let them know you are coming from Nour and would specifically like help regarding domestic violence.
To contact the Muslim Community Helpline call:
0208 904 8193
0208 908 6715
Monday to Friday, 10am to 1pm
Male victims: 0808 801 0327 - free from landlines and mobile phones. We are open:
Monday - Friday 10am-1pm and 2pm-5pm
National Domestic Violence helpline
Helpline: 0808 200 0247 (24 hours)
Email: [email protected] (you will receive a response within 3 working days)
Website: www.nationaldomesticviolencehelpline.org.uk
The National Domestic Violence Helpline is a freephone 24 hour helpline which provides advice and support to women in England and can refer them to emergency accommodation.
The National Domestic Violence Helpline is run in partnership between Refuge and Women's Aid.
There are translation facilities if your first language is not English. The Helpline also offers BT Type talk for callers with hearing difficulties. The Helpline worker contacts the Type talk operator so that the caller can communicate through them.
Rights of Women
52 – 54 Featherstone Street
London
EC1Y 8RT
Family law advice line: 020 7251 6577 (Monday 11am-1pm; Tuesday and Wednesday 2pm-4pm and 7pm-9pm; Thursday 7pm-9pm; Friday 12 noon-2pm)
Criminal law advice line: 020 7251 8887 (Tuesday 11am-1pm; Thursday 2pm-4pm)
Immigration and asylum law advice line: 020 7490 7689 (Monday 2pm-4pm; Wednesday 11am-1pm)
Administration: 020 7251 6575
Fax: 020 7490 5377
E-mail: [email protected]
Website: www.rightsofwomen.org.uk
Rights of Women is a voluntary organisation that runs legal advice telephone lines, offering confidential legal advice on domestic and sexual violence. Rights of Women produce free information sheets which can be downloaded from their website at www.rightsofwomen.org.uk
National Centre for Domestic Violence
Telephone: 0844 8044 999
Freephone: 08009 70 20 70
Minicom: 18001 08009 70 20 70
Fax: 0207 160 9383
Text: NCDV to 60777
Website: www.ncdv.org.uk
Advisers from NCDV are available 24 hours a day, every day of the year.
The National Centre for Domestic Violence (NCDV) offers a free service to help you get a court order to protect yourself if you're experiencing domestic violence. If you are eligible for legal aid, you will be helped by a qualified solicitor or referred to one near where you live. If you can't get legal aid, you will have to pay your own costs but you can be helped with paperwork. Depending on where you live, they may be able to support you at court.
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Rhubarb Tart
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Help for Domestic violence: WORLDWIDE
Domestic, Family Violence Clearinghouse: National resource on issues in Australia
http://www.austdvclearinghouse.unsw.edu.au/
Contact us:
By email: Clearinghouse
By mail: Australian Domestic and Family Violence Clearinghouse
University of New South Wales
Sydney NSW 2052
By phone: (02) 9385 2990
Freecall 1800 75 33 82 (only from fixed phones in Australia)
By fax: (02) 9385 2993
In person at: University of New South Wales.
Please contact us in advance to arrange an appointment.
Clearinghouse staff
Administration Officer 02 9385 8116
Information Officer 02 9385 2990
Good Practice Officer 02 9385 3843
Librarian 02 9385 8115
Research Assistant 02 9385 2837
Senior Researcher 02 9385 8113
Director 02 9385 2991
EarthWords: EarthWords has domestic abuse information in over 60 languages
http://www.hotpeachpages.net/lang/index.html
European campaign against violence against women:
http://ec.europa.eu/old-address-ec.htm
US site for survivors with newsletter and message boards
http://www.eadv.net/
Based in the US, global campaigning group to end abuse in the home
http://www.futureswithoutviolence.org/
National organisation in New Zealand for 50 refuges around the country
http://www.womensrefuge.org.nz/
Crisisline: 0800 REFUGE or 0800 733 843
Phone us toll free from anywhere in New Zealand for information, advice and support about domestic violence as well as help in a crisis. We’re here to help you on this phone number 24 hours a day, seven days a week. Follow the simple steps to be put through to your local refuge on your touchtone or mobile phone. You will be automatically redirected to a female advocate in your region.
Auckland crisisline: (09) 378 1893
Phone us free from within the Auckland area for information, advice and support about domestic violence as well as help in a crisis. We’re here to help you on this phone number 24 hours a day, seven days a week.
Canadian website and online community offering a range of information on women's issues and a special section on violence against women
http://www.womensweb.ca/
Hotlines in Canadian:
Abused, missing, and exploited children
National Center for Missing Exploited Children 1-800-843-5678
Kids' Help Phone 1-800-668-6868
Youth & dating/domestic violence
Break the Cycle 1-888-988-8336
National Center for Victims of Crime
Dating Violence Resource Centre 1-800-FYI-CALL
1-800-394-2255
Domestic violence & battered women
National Domestic Violence Hotline 1-800-799-7233 or
1-800-787-3224 (TDD)
National Coalition Against Domestic Violence 1-303-839-1852
Resource Center on Domestic Violence, Child Protection and Custody 1-800-527-3223
Health Resource Center on Domestic Violence 1-888-792-2873
The Battered Women's Justice Project 1-800-903-0111
National Center for Victims of Crime
Dating Violence Resource Centre 1-800-FYI-CALL
1-800-394-2255
National Center for Victims of Crime
Stalking Resource Centre 1-800-FYI-CALL
1-800-394-2255
Sexual assault
National Sexual Assault Hotline 1-800-656-4673
Suicide
National (Suicide) Hopeline Network 1-800-784-2433
Organisation in Malaysia working to end violence against women
Call the WAO helpline:
+6 03 7956 3488
P.O.Box 493, Jalan Sultan
46760 Petaling Jaya
Selangor, Malaysia
Tel: +603 7957 5636 / +603 7957 0636
Fax: +603 7956 3237
Counselling Line: +603 7956 3488
Operating hours: Monday - Saturday 9:00 AM - 6:00 PM
Sunday Emergency only
E-mail: [email protected]/ [email protected]
Domestic, Family Violence Clearinghouse: National resource on issues in Australia
http://www.austdvclearinghouse.unsw.edu.au/
Contact us:
By email: Clearinghouse
By mail: Australian Domestic and Family Violence Clearinghouse
University of New South Wales
Sydney NSW 2052
By phone: (02) 9385 2990
Freecall 1800 75 33 82 (only from fixed phones in Australia)
By fax: (02) 9385 2993
In person at: University of New South Wales.
Please contact us in advance to arrange an appointment.
Clearinghouse staff
Administration Officer 02 9385 8116
Information Officer 02 9385 2990
Good Practice Officer 02 9385 3843
Librarian 02 9385 8115
Research Assistant 02 9385 2837
Senior Researcher 02 9385 8113
Director 02 9385 2991
EarthWords: EarthWords has domestic abuse information in over 60 languages
http://www.hotpeachpages.net/lang/index.html
European campaign against violence against women:
http://ec.europa.eu/old-address-ec.htm
US site for survivors with newsletter and message boards
http://www.eadv.net/
Based in the US, global campaigning group to end abuse in the home
http://www.futureswithoutviolence.org/
National organisation in New Zealand for 50 refuges around the country
http://www.womensrefuge.org.nz/
Crisisline: 0800 REFUGE or 0800 733 843
Phone us toll free from anywhere in New Zealand for information, advice and support about domestic violence as well as help in a crisis. We’re here to help you on this phone number 24 hours a day, seven days a week. Follow the simple steps to be put through to your local refuge on your touchtone or mobile phone. You will be automatically redirected to a female advocate in your region.
Auckland crisisline: (09) 378 1893
Phone us free from within the Auckland area for information, advice and support about domestic violence as well as help in a crisis. We’re here to help you on this phone number 24 hours a day, seven days a week.
Canadian website and online community offering a range of information on women's issues and a special section on violence against women
http://www.womensweb.ca/
Hotlines in Canadian:
Abused, missing, and exploited children
National Center for Missing Exploited Children 1-800-843-5678
Kids' Help Phone 1-800-668-6868
Youth & dating/domestic violence
Break the Cycle 1-888-988-8336
National Center for Victims of Crime
Dating Violence Resource Centre 1-800-FYI-CALL
1-800-394-2255
Domestic violence & battered women
National Domestic Violence Hotline 1-800-799-7233 or
1-800-787-3224 (TDD)
National Coalition Against Domestic Violence 1-303-839-1852
Resource Center on Domestic Violence, Child Protection and Custody 1-800-527-3223
Health Resource Center on Domestic Violence 1-888-792-2873
The Battered Women's Justice Project 1-800-903-0111
National Center for Victims of Crime
Dating Violence Resource Centre 1-800-FYI-CALL
1-800-394-2255
National Center for Victims of Crime
Stalking Resource Centre 1-800-FYI-CALL
1-800-394-2255
Sexual assault
National Sexual Assault Hotline 1-800-656-4673
Suicide
National (Suicide) Hopeline Network 1-800-784-2433
Organisation in Malaysia working to end violence against women
Call the WAO helpline:
+6 03 7956 3488
P.O.Box 493, Jalan Sultan
46760 Petaling Jaya
Selangor, Malaysia
Tel: +603 7957 5636 / +603 7957 0636
Fax: +603 7956 3237
Counselling Line: +603 7956 3488
Operating hours: Monday - Saturday 9:00 AM - 6:00 PM
Sunday Emergency only
E-mail: [email protected]/ [email protected]
Last edited:
Salaam Alaykum.
It is great to see so many Muslims here recognizing that domestic violence is a problem. Especially Muslimas, as I think it is very important for women to stand up against such things.
But I have a question that I am confused over, doesn't Surah 4:34 permit husbands to use violence against their wives? In which case, according to Islamic Law, it is not domestic violence itself that is the issue, but excessive use of domestic violence. Is that correct?
Where in the Sunna does it explicitly state that the excessive use of domestic violence is forbidden?
Thanks.
It is great to see so many Muslims here recognizing that domestic violence is a problem. Especially Muslimas, as I think it is very important for women to stand up against such things.
But I have a question that I am confused over, doesn't Surah 4:34 permit husbands to use violence against their wives? In which case, according to Islamic Law, it is not domestic violence itself that is the issue, but excessive use of domestic violence. Is that correct?
Where in the Sunna does it explicitly state that the excessive use of domestic violence is forbidden?
Thanks.
cOsMiCiNtUiTiOn
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I want to know how many of the participants in this thread have themselves been beat, and i mean truly beat, like with a metal rod across your back or punched in the head? How many participants have been the person to beat another?
Having walked those shoes, I don't appreciate to see debates and arguments regarding a subject that is not only sensitive, but that most people have no knowledge about. Statistics? What a joke. These statistics come from the same people who push the feminist agenda, the same people who have taken it upon themselves to ruin the family unit and ruin society. Wake up folks. Women are always the victim aren't they? It takes two hands to clap!! I think I suffered more damage from the hogwash of information out there victimizing women, than I did from what I went through in my previous marriage.
Why do women endure it? Well, in my experience, same reason men endure the drama that comes with the situation. Because they are both committed, especially if there's children. For women it is a bit more difficult and different I must admit, and thats due to the corrupted society we have which is heedless. Shunning a divorced woman, or leave the divorcee or widow out there to rot when there's CHILDREN who need to be fathered. That is what woke me up the most, having to deal with people like this. As much as everyone knows it, nobody changes it. I finally met a man who is willing to step up to the plate, and may Allah reward him generously. Ameen. Muslims like that are few and far in between. In the times of the prophet (saw)no woman went unmarried, children shouldn't be raised fatherless or motherless simply because their parents couldn't make it work. They are the future of our society... but "what people think" matters most to this Ummah. A woman wouldn't have to deal with injustice and be forced into it (true injustice is rare folks) if she was secure, like women used to be back then.
You know, There's always two sides of the story and we are only shown the bruised up faces of women, but we sure don't get to see them mouth off every day for X amount of years do we? How do things get that bad? Well, you would have to live it to understand. It is all avoidable if one strives to get out of ignorance. READ THE QURAN, learn your islam!! Not just "your rights" But Islam in its entirety. Choose your spouses for the proper reasons, choose them for their Imaan and their taqwa. Men are quick to choose the pretty girl, and later come to find she is rather spoiled, disobedient or what have you. Women are quick to choose the guy with a fat wallet, later coming to find he has little to no knowledge of Islam and she isn't given her proper rights and so on....
This subject is hefty, and I recommend those who don't truly understand it to just leave it alone. Taking a woman to a shelter is a bad move, advising to call cops, is also a bad move. None of these places bring you to the Quran. None of these places put Allah first.
I apologize if my words are rather harsh, but, reality isn't sweet.
As far as this
Please read this in its entirety and don't just skim through it. If you truly want to understand that which you are questioning, you should take the time to read it, it is a good place to start. Insha Allah .
The Surah You speak of is Surah An-Nisa 4:34:
- cOsMiC
Having walked those shoes, I don't appreciate to see debates and arguments regarding a subject that is not only sensitive, but that most people have no knowledge about. Statistics? What a joke. These statistics come from the same people who push the feminist agenda, the same people who have taken it upon themselves to ruin the family unit and ruin society. Wake up folks. Women are always the victim aren't they? It takes two hands to clap!! I think I suffered more damage from the hogwash of information out there victimizing women, than I did from what I went through in my previous marriage.
^^ EXACTLY
Why do women endure it? Well, in my experience, same reason men endure the drama that comes with the situation. Because they are both committed, especially if there's children. For women it is a bit more difficult and different I must admit, and thats due to the corrupted society we have which is heedless. Shunning a divorced woman, or leave the divorcee or widow out there to rot when there's CHILDREN who need to be fathered. That is what woke me up the most, having to deal with people like this. As much as everyone knows it, nobody changes it. I finally met a man who is willing to step up to the plate, and may Allah reward him generously. Ameen. Muslims like that are few and far in between. In the times of the prophet (saw)no woman went unmarried, children shouldn't be raised fatherless or motherless simply because their parents couldn't make it work. They are the future of our society... but "what people think" matters most to this Ummah. A woman wouldn't have to deal with injustice and be forced into it (true injustice is rare folks) if she was secure, like women used to be back then.
You know, There's always two sides of the story and we are only shown the bruised up faces of women, but we sure don't get to see them mouth off every day for X amount of years do we? How do things get that bad? Well, you would have to live it to understand. It is all avoidable if one strives to get out of ignorance. READ THE QURAN, learn your islam!! Not just "your rights" But Islam in its entirety. Choose your spouses for the proper reasons, choose them for their Imaan and their taqwa. Men are quick to choose the pretty girl, and later come to find she is rather spoiled, disobedient or what have you. Women are quick to choose the guy with a fat wallet, later coming to find he has little to no knowledge of Islam and she isn't given her proper rights and so on....
This subject is hefty, and I recommend those who don't truly understand it to just leave it alone. Taking a woman to a shelter is a bad move, advising to call cops, is also a bad move. None of these places bring you to the Quran. None of these places put Allah first.
I apologize if my words are rather harsh, but, reality isn't sweet.
As far as this
Please read this in its entirety and don't just skim through it. If you truly want to understand that which you are questioning, you should take the time to read it, it is a good place to start. Insha Allah .
The Surah You speak of is Surah An-Nisa 4:34:
"As for those women on whose part you fear nushuz..." Before we go any further with the translation, it is important to explain the meaning of the key word nushuz. The literal meaning of the word is "rebellion". But rebellion against whom and in what sense? We should certainly not think of this in terms the rebellion of the ruled against a ruler in a sultanate or dictatorship and conclude that it consists of the wife disobeying some of the husband's commands. This is because the same word nushuz is used in case of a husband in verse 128 of the same
surah 4, where it is said: "If a woman fears nushuz on her husband's part..." So nushuz is something that can be feared by the husband on the wife's part or by the wife on her husband's part. It cannot therefore be understood in terms of the ruler-ruled relationship. To correctly understand the meaning of the word, it must be noted that both in the verse under consideration and in verse 128 the reference to nushuz is followed by a reference to the break-up of the marriage (see vv. 35, 130). If this context is kept in mind, then it becomes evident that nushuz means the type of behaviour on the part of the husband or the wife which is so disturbing for the other that their living together becomes difficult.
Now the behaviour of a marriage partner can become disturbing for the other in one of the following two ways:
1) There is no ill-will on the part of the offending party. It is simply because of some incompatibility between the two or the failure on the part of one to understand the other that one of them finds some aspect of the other's behaviour disturbing.
2) One partner knowingly behaves or continues to behave in a way which seriously disturbs the other partner. In this case there is obviously an ill-will on the part of the first partner towards the second.
Nushuz is only this second type of behaviour, for only a deliberate ill-conduct based on ill-will can be described as "rebellion".
There is also a measure of relativeness about nushuz in the sense that what constitutes nushuz in the eyes of one person may not be so viewed by another. For this reason, the judgment that one's spouse has been guilty of nushuz is partly a subjective and personal one. That is why the verse says: "If you fear nushuz..." instead of for example, "if you find nushuz...". In the Holy Qur'an "fearing" signifies subjective but certain, knowledge or judgment about something.
In short, nushuz is a behaviour on the part of one marriage partner which comes out of ill-will and seriously disturbs the other partner.
Let us now proceed further with the verse and see what does it suggest in case of "those women on whose part you fear nushuz".(3) Three steps are recommended: "Admonish them (first), (next) separate them in beds (and last) beat them."
When there is no ill-will on the part of the wife towards the husband and he finds her behaviour hard to live with, he can, of course, divorce her. But marriage difficulties often start with a stage when neither partner really wants a break-up of the marriage and yet, at least from the point of view of one of the partners, the situation is unacceptable. The three steps suggested in the verse pertain to such circumstances.
"Admonish them". In this step the husband can say a great variety of things to the wife. He can bring to her attention some relevant teachings from the Qur'an and Hadith. He can remind her of the adverse effects of a possible break-up of marriage onall concerned - she herself, the children, if any, and he himself. Such admonition however, will be effective only if the husband has a good character, at least in comparison with the wife. Otherwise, the wife can say to him, either in her heart or aloud, "look who is talking".
The husband must practice what he preaches to his wife, for the Qur'an condemns preaching to others what we do not practice ourselves (2:44).
"Separate them in beds". There is a lot that a husband can achieve by talking to the wife in the right way. But if he fails, he should try separating the wife in bed and take other steps that go with such an action, e.g. avoiding to talk to her. If there had ever been any love between the two, this separation while living together, may help that love to return or come to the forefront. The wife may, as a result, become more willing to change her ways and the husband too may begin to see some of the things in a different light. For this suggestion of separation to work it is clear that the husband should have sufficient control over his sexual urges. For, otherwise he may be driven to end the separation in bed before it had any positive effect on the wife.
"Beat them". If even separation fails to work, then it is suggested that men use beating. To this suggestion of the Holy Qur'anthere have been two extreme reactions on the part of some Muslims. The first reaction is being apologetic or ashamed of the suggestion. The second is to use it as a justification for indulging in habitual wife battering. Needless to say that both these reactions are wrong. The Quran as we believe is the word of God and is thus every word in it is full of wisdom and love. To be apologetic about any part of the Quran is to lack both knowledge and faith. As for the second response, the suggestion to use beating is made specifically to deal with nushuz on the part of the wife, that is, to deal with her deliberately nasty behaviour that poses a threat to the marriage. Beating is to be done after due admonition and separation in beds and therefore by husbands who have some moral standards and have sufficient control over their sexual passions. Moreover, this beating is not to go on and on but is to be tried as a last step to save the marriage. Once it is clear that it is not working it is to be abandoned in favour of some other steps involving relatives of the husband and the wife mentioned in the next verse (4:35). There is therefore, absolutely no license here for the type of regular and continual wife beating that goes on in some homes, where each time the husband is angry with his wife or with someone else he turns against her and beats her up. In most such cases, the husband has no moral superiority over the wife: the only rule of Shariah that he cares about is this suggestion about beating. He also does not have the kind of control over his sexual passions needed to separate the wife in bed and often beats her the day before or the day after making love to her, an action specifically condemned by the Prophet. (4)
In regard to the suggestion about beating, the following further points should also be noted:
a) According to some traditions the Prophet said in his famous and well-attended speech on the occasion of his farewell pilgrimage that the beating done according to the present verse should be ghayr mubarrih, i.e. in such a way that it should not cause injury, bruise or serious hurt. On this basis some scholars like Tabari and Razi say even that it should be largely symbolic and should be administered "with a folded scarf" or "with a miswak or some such thing". However, to be effective in its purpose of shaking the wife out of her nasty mood it is important that it should provide an energetic demonstration of the anger, frustration and love of the husband. In other words, it should neither seriously hurt the wife nor reduce it to a set of meaningless motions devoid of emotions.
b) The wife has no religious obligation to take the beating. She can ask for and get divorce any time. The suggestion applies only in the case when the husband is seriously disturbed by a prolonged nasty behaviour on the part of the wife but neither he nor the wife is as yet seriously thinking of breaking up.
c) If the husband beats a wife without respecting the limits set down by the Quran and Hadith, then she can take him to court and if ruled in favor has the right to apply the law of retaliation
Now the behaviour of a marriage partner can become disturbing for the other in one of the following two ways:
1) There is no ill-will on the part of the offending party. It is simply because of some incompatibility between the two or the failure on the part of one to understand the other that one of them finds some aspect of the other's behaviour disturbing.
2) One partner knowingly behaves or continues to behave in a way which seriously disturbs the other partner. In this case there is obviously an ill-will on the part of the first partner towards the second.
Nushuz is only this second type of behaviour, for only a deliberate ill-conduct based on ill-will can be described as "rebellion".
There is also a measure of relativeness about nushuz in the sense that what constitutes nushuz in the eyes of one person may not be so viewed by another. For this reason, the judgment that one's spouse has been guilty of nushuz is partly a subjective and personal one. That is why the verse says: "If you fear nushuz..." instead of for example, "if you find nushuz...". In the Holy Qur'an "fearing" signifies subjective but certain, knowledge or judgment about something.
In short, nushuz is a behaviour on the part of one marriage partner which comes out of ill-will and seriously disturbs the other partner.
Let us now proceed further with the verse and see what does it suggest in case of "those women on whose part you fear nushuz".(3) Three steps are recommended: "Admonish them (first), (next) separate them in beds (and last) beat them."
When there is no ill-will on the part of the wife towards the husband and he finds her behaviour hard to live with, he can, of course, divorce her. But marriage difficulties often start with a stage when neither partner really wants a break-up of the marriage and yet, at least from the point of view of one of the partners, the situation is unacceptable. The three steps suggested in the verse pertain to such circumstances.
"Admonish them". In this step the husband can say a great variety of things to the wife. He can bring to her attention some relevant teachings from the Qur'an and Hadith. He can remind her of the adverse effects of a possible break-up of marriage onall concerned - she herself, the children, if any, and he himself. Such admonition however, will be effective only if the husband has a good character, at least in comparison with the wife. Otherwise, the wife can say to him, either in her heart or aloud, "look who is talking".
The husband must practice what he preaches to his wife, for the Qur'an condemns preaching to others what we do not practice ourselves (2:44).
"Separate them in beds". There is a lot that a husband can achieve by talking to the wife in the right way. But if he fails, he should try separating the wife in bed and take other steps that go with such an action, e.g. avoiding to talk to her. If there had ever been any love between the two, this separation while living together, may help that love to return or come to the forefront. The wife may, as a result, become more willing to change her ways and the husband too may begin to see some of the things in a different light. For this suggestion of separation to work it is clear that the husband should have sufficient control over his sexual urges. For, otherwise he may be driven to end the separation in bed before it had any positive effect on the wife.
"Beat them". If even separation fails to work, then it is suggested that men use beating. To this suggestion of the Holy Qur'anthere have been two extreme reactions on the part of some Muslims. The first reaction is being apologetic or ashamed of the suggestion. The second is to use it as a justification for indulging in habitual wife battering. Needless to say that both these reactions are wrong. The Quran as we believe is the word of God and is thus every word in it is full of wisdom and love. To be apologetic about any part of the Quran is to lack both knowledge and faith. As for the second response, the suggestion to use beating is made specifically to deal with nushuz on the part of the wife, that is, to deal with her deliberately nasty behaviour that poses a threat to the marriage. Beating is to be done after due admonition and separation in beds and therefore by husbands who have some moral standards and have sufficient control over their sexual passions. Moreover, this beating is not to go on and on but is to be tried as a last step to save the marriage. Once it is clear that it is not working it is to be abandoned in favour of some other steps involving relatives of the husband and the wife mentioned in the next verse (4:35). There is therefore, absolutely no license here for the type of regular and continual wife beating that goes on in some homes, where each time the husband is angry with his wife or with someone else he turns against her and beats her up. In most such cases, the husband has no moral superiority over the wife: the only rule of Shariah that he cares about is this suggestion about beating. He also does not have the kind of control over his sexual passions needed to separate the wife in bed and often beats her the day before or the day after making love to her, an action specifically condemned by the Prophet. (4)
In regard to the suggestion about beating, the following further points should also be noted:
a) According to some traditions the Prophet said in his famous and well-attended speech on the occasion of his farewell pilgrimage that the beating done according to the present verse should be ghayr mubarrih, i.e. in such a way that it should not cause injury, bruise or serious hurt. On this basis some scholars like Tabari and Razi say even that it should be largely symbolic and should be administered "with a folded scarf" or "with a miswak or some such thing". However, to be effective in its purpose of shaking the wife out of her nasty mood it is important that it should provide an energetic demonstration of the anger, frustration and love of the husband. In other words, it should neither seriously hurt the wife nor reduce it to a set of meaningless motions devoid of emotions.
b) The wife has no religious obligation to take the beating. She can ask for and get divorce any time. The suggestion applies only in the case when the husband is seriously disturbed by a prolonged nasty behaviour on the part of the wife but neither he nor the wife is as yet seriously thinking of breaking up.
c) If the husband beats a wife without respecting the limits set down by the Quran and Hadith, then she can take him to court and if ruled in favor has the right to apply the law of retaliation
and beat the husband as he beat her.
d) Some fuqaha (Muslim jurists) are of the opinion that beating is permissible but not advisable. They base their view on the fact that the Prophet intensely disliked the action. But to say that beating is only permissible but never advisable is to say that there is never any good in it but the husband can nevertheless resort to it if he wants to; in other words he can beat up his wife without any good reason. This, however, is a view that cannot possibly be attributed to the Book of God. We can expect theHoly Qur'an to mention beating only if there was some wisdom in that mention. Now there are two possible points of wisdom in the mention. First, the beating done within the limits defined by the Qur'an may indeed bring the husband and wife to some kind of understanding. This is not because of the pain involved, which in any case cannot be too much if the guidance in the Quran and Hadith are to be observed. Rather, the husband and wife may come closer together after beating because of the emotions involved. The wife may experience the depth of hurt and disturbance her nushuz is causing and if there is any love left among them may decide for that reason to change her conduct. It seems from observations of human behaviour know that a show of male physical energy can sometimes bring a woman out of a prolonged bad mood (5) even though this energy may be seemingly directed against her in the form of angry words or a slap, provided in this manifestation of energy there is an undercurrent of love and desire for the woman and no real harm is done to the woman. In the situation with which the present verse is dealing, it is understood that in his heart the husband does have some love and desire for the wife. For, he has the option of divorcing her but he is not taking that option. Of course, there are husbands who neither love their wives nor divorce them, but keep them to punish them or exploit them. But we are not dealing with this situation here, since the assumption is that ill-will (nushuz) is from the wife's side. As for the argument that the Prophet intensely disliked beating, we can say that his intense dislike was for the type of beating done outside the limits set down by God. Second, the mention of beating may have the wisdom, ironically, to protect wives against what is called wife battering. The Quran does not always combat undesirable behavior by legal prohibition but by some other means. Experience also shows that legal prohibition of an action may not always be the most effective method to stop it. The Quran by requiring that before any beating there should be admonishing and separation of beds is providing a more effective measure against wife battering, since battering is the result of
uncontrollable anger or aggression and this anger or aggression can be tamed during admonishing and separation of beds. No statistics exist, but I feel confident that if we research the behavior of men in different religious groups over a long enough period and a vast enough area of the globe, we will find that the incidents of cases of wife battering and other forms of cruelty to women have been less, both in terms of numbers and seriousness, among Muslims than in other groups.
"But if they obey you, then seek nothing against them". Here obey means that the wife accepts the husband's fair and justified demands or expectations. "Seek nothing against them" means that after the wife has abandoned nushuz and returned to the decent way one partner in marriage should behave towards the other, the husband should forgive and forget the past and start a new page.
"Behold, God is most high and great". These words are meant for both the husband and the wife. Above them both is God in whose name they were joined in marriage. The husband should not forget that the greater physical strength and the superior earning power which give him a certain advantage in marriage comes from God. He should not, therefore, try to push this advantage to unjustified limits. In particular, he should not expect to be the lord and master of the wife.
At the same time the wife should realize that her nasty behaviour is causing a lot of unhappiness to all the family, to herself, to the husband and to the children and other close relatives. She cannot do this to the near ones without displeasing God and without paying for it in some way.
d) Some fuqaha (Muslim jurists) are of the opinion that beating is permissible but not advisable. They base their view on the fact that the Prophet intensely disliked the action. But to say that beating is only permissible but never advisable is to say that there is never any good in it but the husband can nevertheless resort to it if he wants to; in other words he can beat up his wife without any good reason. This, however, is a view that cannot possibly be attributed to the Book of God. We can expect theHoly Qur'an to mention beating only if there was some wisdom in that mention. Now there are two possible points of wisdom in the mention. First, the beating done within the limits defined by the Qur'an may indeed bring the husband and wife to some kind of understanding. This is not because of the pain involved, which in any case cannot be too much if the guidance in the Quran and Hadith are to be observed. Rather, the husband and wife may come closer together after beating because of the emotions involved. The wife may experience the depth of hurt and disturbance her nushuz is causing and if there is any love left among them may decide for that reason to change her conduct. It seems from observations of human behaviour know that a show of male physical energy can sometimes bring a woman out of a prolonged bad mood (5) even though this energy may be seemingly directed against her in the form of angry words or a slap, provided in this manifestation of energy there is an undercurrent of love and desire for the woman and no real harm is done to the woman. In the situation with which the present verse is dealing, it is understood that in his heart the husband does have some love and desire for the wife. For, he has the option of divorcing her but he is not taking that option. Of course, there are husbands who neither love their wives nor divorce them, but keep them to punish them or exploit them. But we are not dealing with this situation here, since the assumption is that ill-will (nushuz) is from the wife's side. As for the argument that the Prophet intensely disliked beating, we can say that his intense dislike was for the type of beating done outside the limits set down by God. Second, the mention of beating may have the wisdom, ironically, to protect wives against what is called wife battering. The Quran does not always combat undesirable behavior by legal prohibition but by some other means. Experience also shows that legal prohibition of an action may not always be the most effective method to stop it. The Quran by requiring that before any beating there should be admonishing and separation of beds is providing a more effective measure against wife battering, since battering is the result of
uncontrollable anger or aggression and this anger or aggression can be tamed during admonishing and separation of beds. No statistics exist, but I feel confident that if we research the behavior of men in different religious groups over a long enough period and a vast enough area of the globe, we will find that the incidents of cases of wife battering and other forms of cruelty to women have been less, both in terms of numbers and seriousness, among Muslims than in other groups.
"But if they obey you, then seek nothing against them". Here obey means that the wife accepts the husband's fair and justified demands or expectations. "Seek nothing against them" means that after the wife has abandoned nushuz and returned to the decent way one partner in marriage should behave towards the other, the husband should forgive and forget the past and start a new page.
"Behold, God is most high and great". These words are meant for both the husband and the wife. Above them both is God in whose name they were joined in marriage. The husband should not forget that the greater physical strength and the superior earning power which give him a certain advantage in marriage comes from God. He should not, therefore, try to push this advantage to unjustified limits. In particular, he should not expect to be the lord and master of the wife.
At the same time the wife should realize that her nasty behaviour is causing a lot of unhappiness to all the family, to herself, to the husband and to the children and other close relatives. She cannot do this to the near ones without displeasing God and without paying for it in some way.
- cOsMiC
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Rhubarb Tart
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Salam
huh? WOW
Let me think? Some mouthing off Vs. someone beating another human being? Who would people rather have a cup of tea with?
Disgusting much no?
I have.
We would use the term “cause and effect” if a stranger beat someone in the street but we seem to think it OKAY to use that term for domestic violence. To me it is simple, if you are an adult; you are responsible enough to keep your anger intact. If not? You should suffer the same consequence as an idiot that causes grievous bodily harm in the street whether you are a man or woman. Simple
Anywho I thought this topic was finished? I posted several organisation for both women and men. End of
huh? WOW
Let me think? Some mouthing off Vs. someone beating another human being? Who would people rather have a cup of tea with?
Disgusting much no?
I have.
We would use the term “cause and effect” if a stranger beat someone in the street but we seem to think it OKAY to use that term for domestic violence. To me it is simple, if you are an adult; you are responsible enough to keep your anger intact. If not? You should suffer the same consequence as an idiot that causes grievous bodily harm in the street whether you are a man or woman. Simple
Anywho I thought this topic was finished? I posted several organisation for both women and men. End of
Rhubarb Tart
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I don’t know about you but if someone life is at risks, I would advice them to call the cops, unless you are in favour of them being severely damaged or dead.
please admin close this thread. Above post is inflammatory.
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RasulAllah P.B.U.H. Said:
"Never beat God's handmaidens."
"Could any of you beat your wife as he would a slave, and then lie with her in the evening?"
at any rate I don't recommend anyone air out their dirty laundry to make a point.
Men also don't have 'superior earning abilities' I know many sisters who support their husbands financially. One in particular whose husband was cheating on and while 7 months pregnant was kicking her in her belly until her placenta separated--you can imagine the rest.
something to reflect on in shaa Allah.
"Never beat God's handmaidens."
"Could any of you beat your wife as he would a slave, and then lie with her in the evening?"
at any rate I don't recommend anyone air out their dirty laundry to make a point.
Men also don't have 'superior earning abilities' I know many sisters who support their husbands financially. One in particular whose husband was cheating on and while 7 months pregnant was kicking her in her belly until her placenta separated--you can imagine the rest.
something to reflect on in shaa Allah.
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Both of you seem to always want to win an argument constantly without taking time to truly reflect on what is being said, and its precisely that kind of behavior and attitude that bring about these kinds of situations. Bluebell, if you read carefully at what I posted, you'd see that the quote u posted was mentioned. Unfortunately there are many severe cases, but rather than focus just on the event, realize what it takes to create a situation like that, and most importantly how to prevent being in that position.
So, according to you, we are to reflect upon a very brief story told by you, yet wasn't lived by you, but sharing a perspective which comes from personal experience first hand is dirty laundry? ^o) (no details or specific stories being given here) Sometimes personal experiences have to be shared, it's not necessarily dirty laundry. Without experience how do we learn ? One shouldn't wait to learn from their own mistakes, rather learn from others' mistakes. Had I not lived it, I'd probably be chiming in like the rest of you posting all sorts of horrible stories, articles and the whole shabang. Before it happened to me, I read about plenty of cases and felt sorry for the women (lifetime movies anyone?) and was quite big on women's rights etc. When you actually face it though, its' a totally different ball park. What you know, the stories that your friends have told you will always be one sided, unless you sat down with both parties, even then you didn't live their marriage, so I would refrain from putting stories like that out there when you don't know the entire situation. The same goes for stories brought to us by the media. This is very personal and sensitive stuff, and majority if not all "domestic abuse" propaganda is shared to paint men out to be unworthy of respect.
I mean just look at what you typed up... "men don't have superior earning abilities, I know many sister who support their husbands. " Implying that women can do just as men can.. which isn't the case. Men may not have a superior ability, but they DO have a role which is not equal to the woman's. Where's the respect for their God given position?
Allah clearly said in the Quran Surah An-Nisa:
As far as your friend is concerned, we don't know her story, we don't know how she got in that situation, why she is maintaining or supporting her husband. It's very one sided and wrong of you to share something like that and it can create fitnah for some people. THAT should be reflected upon IMO.
I shared what I did because I get tired of seeing lopsided information, especially in regards to women. Just to be clear, I not once said beating a woman is correct, quite the contrary if my entire post is read. I felt it would be fair to share a different perspective directly from a woman who's actually lived it, not from some third party. I don't feel I am in disagreement with the fact that abuse is wrong, not at all. Every experience we go through is an opportunity to grow, one has to reflect though and stop playing victim. Instead of complaining,throwing pitty parties, and wanting to punish others for their actions, one can actually stop to think "hey uhm, what could I have done to prevent that painful experience?" because in the end, you can only change yourself. You all can pick apart my post, and argue to your heart's content. If somebody out there read this and benefited from it, then the purpose of me posting all of this was served.
- cOsMiC
So, according to you, we are to reflect upon a very brief story told by you, yet wasn't lived by you, but sharing a perspective which comes from personal experience first hand is dirty laundry? ^o) (no details or specific stories being given here) Sometimes personal experiences have to be shared, it's not necessarily dirty laundry. Without experience how do we learn ? One shouldn't wait to learn from their own mistakes, rather learn from others' mistakes. Had I not lived it, I'd probably be chiming in like the rest of you posting all sorts of horrible stories, articles and the whole shabang. Before it happened to me, I read about plenty of cases and felt sorry for the women (lifetime movies anyone?) and was quite big on women's rights etc. When you actually face it though, its' a totally different ball park. What you know, the stories that your friends have told you will always be one sided, unless you sat down with both parties, even then you didn't live their marriage, so I would refrain from putting stories like that out there when you don't know the entire situation. The same goes for stories brought to us by the media. This is very personal and sensitive stuff, and majority if not all "domestic abuse" propaganda is shared to paint men out to be unworthy of respect.
I mean just look at what you typed up... "men don't have superior earning abilities, I know many sister who support their husbands. " Implying that women can do just as men can.. which isn't the case. Men may not have a superior ability, but they DO have a role which is not equal to the woman's. Where's the respect for their God given position?
Allah clearly said in the Quran Surah An-Nisa:
As far as your friend is concerned, we don't know her story, we don't know how she got in that situation, why she is maintaining or supporting her husband. It's very one sided and wrong of you to share something like that and it can create fitnah for some people. THAT should be reflected upon IMO.
I shared what I did because I get tired of seeing lopsided information, especially in regards to women. Just to be clear, I not once said beating a woman is correct, quite the contrary if my entire post is read. I felt it would be fair to share a different perspective directly from a woman who's actually lived it, not from some third party. I don't feel I am in disagreement with the fact that abuse is wrong, not at all. Every experience we go through is an opportunity to grow, one has to reflect though and stop playing victim. Instead of complaining,throwing pitty parties, and wanting to punish others for their actions, one can actually stop to think "hey uhm, what could I have done to prevent that painful experience?" because in the end, you can only change yourself. You all can pick apart my post, and argue to your heart's content. If somebody out there read this and benefited from it, then the purpose of me posting all of this was served.
- cOsMiC
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I don't write to 'win an argument' least of which in the holy month. I have no desire to undo my fast nor have I the desire to shut off common sense or learn of any subject especially to do with Uloom Al-Quran or fiqh from the net based on opinion neither in the original tongue of the prophet nor at the hands of scholars--Be that as it may you dislike statistics and dislike stories so what would be satisfactory to you in this case? When you travel do you grab a bunch of underwear a bunch of dresses and a bunch of toiletries in your hand and run with them or do you pack em in a suitcase? Well in a nutshell that's what statics are - information collected put in one package and an idea of content in numbers is sorted. It's not meant to impart an opinion rather numbers which at the end of the day parlay into dollars and cents. how much this costs healthcare not who's lying in a ditch hurt or dead!
I am not going to discuss any cases with you whether I had been present or not as it is irrelevant and disrespectful to said individuals - If I honestly believed that this would turn out anything but fodder for your scrutinizing eyes and your criticism I'd have shared cases presented to me that compass everything from 13 year old rape victims to 78 year old Muslim woman being slapped around by her allegedly Muslim son who goes off gets drunk every night opens credit cards in her name and racks up $32000 worth of debt and generally terrifies her that's just one rotation in FP.
It's as if you want their most naked and most raw moments aired out for your satisfaction and your criticism and also shows lack of understanding to Islamic fiqh and jurisprudence which is something I see happening frequently in some of your posts. This is not an attack on your person but surely you conceive that your opinion isn't representative of the whole or at times even Islamic. We are trying to level some of what you write.That's all and again I ask forgiveness if my words offend.
I mean you no ill will and genuinely happy you found someone to pay for your living expenses and raise your child and in shaa Allah treats you right!I hate to have to constantly walk on egg shells to undo some of the damage done on these threads. Do please consider that the advise or insight you're passing out is representative of your personal experience, your understanding and your vision for your own life and not necessarily representative of Islam/women/medicine/reality etc. Nor are we going around accusing men of being devils or angels. But ignoring this with brusque and dismissive style won't help anyone. Generally writing isn't helpful anyway especially when we look at victims as the guilty party - Not that you're not entitled to those opinions just that they need to be tempered by another lens.
I am not going to discuss any cases with you whether I had been present or not as it is irrelevant and disrespectful to said individuals - If I honestly believed that this would turn out anything but fodder for your scrutinizing eyes and your criticism I'd have shared cases presented to me that compass everything from 13 year old rape victims to 78 year old Muslim woman being slapped around by her allegedly Muslim son who goes off gets drunk every night opens credit cards in her name and racks up $32000 worth of debt and generally terrifies her that's just one rotation in FP.
It's as if you want their most naked and most raw moments aired out for your satisfaction and your criticism and also shows lack of understanding to Islamic fiqh and jurisprudence which is something I see happening frequently in some of your posts. This is not an attack on your person but surely you conceive that your opinion isn't representative of the whole or at times even Islamic. We are trying to level some of what you write.That's all and again I ask forgiveness if my words offend.
I mean you no ill will and genuinely happy you found someone to pay for your living expenses and raise your child and in shaa Allah treats you right!I hate to have to constantly walk on egg shells to undo some of the damage done on these threads. Do please consider that the advise or insight you're passing out is representative of your personal experience, your understanding and your vision for your own life and not necessarily representative of Islam/women/medicine/reality etc. Nor are we going around accusing men of being devils or angels. But ignoring this with brusque and dismissive style won't help anyone. Generally writing isn't helpful anyway especially when we look at victims as the guilty party - Not that you're not entitled to those opinions just that they need to be tempered by another lens.
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