Alleged Qu'ran errors/mistakes

[Kt007]

The other thread was closed so, I'll post this here.

Alhamdulillah, that I havn't seen a single person claiming to be an "Ex-Muslim" have any real knowledge about the deen. I've seen countless of them get embarassed. <br>
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Please mention them with reference.<br>

<br><br>Salaam,<br><br>I think it will be best if we start with and then move along otherwise I think the subject might become confusing.<br><br>In Surah 41 verse 9 Allah says he created the earth first, and it goes on from verse 9 through to 12 explaining this, and in verse 11 it says he turned/directed to the heavens and created the heavens and then he decked the lower heaven with lamps. I am confused, what is the 'lower heaven' and what are 'lamps' I don't see any 'lamps' do you? So the earth was created right, and then Allah created lamps? What are these lamps, are the genie lamps or some other lamps?  <br>
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And do you know why this happened?

<br><br>Presumably not to have different versions of the Qu'ran. He ordered the burning of them. <br>
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This should be interesting, since even the majority (overwhelming majority) of Non-Muslim academics don't doubt the Qur'an we have today is the same one that Muhammad(pbuh) preached.

<br><br>The Qu'ran was complied over a long period of time, and their existed many versions at one time, and for this reason Uthman ordered the burning of all the rest of the copies which didn't match his version. The scholars (and I myself) agree since the Uthman's version the Qu'ran has not been changed. <br>
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And what's this based on, your english translated, out of context, lack of scholarly knowledge, judgement?

<br><br>Well I did read English translations of the hadith. <br>
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Feel free to post these "bad hadiths" and I'll explain the context for you. Since you obviously have no idea of it.

<br><br>OK. <br>


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Why don't you prove this? Again, most modern day Academics reject this idea, including the famous historical Neurologist. But you probably didn't know this.

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<br>note, I said it was my opinion. Those with temporal lobe epilepsy usually claim to have a deeper understanding of the inner workings of the universe. <br>
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Again, post your sources and I'll happily refute/explain it to you. <br>Again, post your sources. (btw I know exactly what you're talking about, but I doubt you yourself know, most likely just read anti-Islam websites who hide a lot of context.<br><br>But, anyhow, post your evidence.<br>

<br><br>Yes I will in the future. <br>


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Well, "practicing Muslim" certainly doesn't mean someone who actually knows anything about his religion. Some people pray because they're told to, without learning the wisdom or why it is that they pray.<br>
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And your last sentence sums your story up.

<br><br>Yeah I was a pretty errm liberal Muslim, though I did have brief periods when I changed. 

P.S, I also wanted to say that one of the Muslim girls in the other tread needs to clam down, at least have some decorum, and I didn't expect such behaviour from Muslims girls, those who come from a respectable background.

 

[Asiyah3]

There are no mistakes in the Qur'aan. God is perfect and His word is perfect. Unfortunately, I don't have time to discuss your points, but I just want to say one thing.

I have read anti-Islamic claims, and they didn't make sense. But I wonder why do they have to resort to destorting the translations of the Qur'aan? Why do they have to resort to lying? Do they think we will leave the truth and follow their falsehood?

As for you Kt007, sincerely saying this. Give yourself a chance. Learn Islam from Islamic sources. Wouldn't it be rather unwise for me to learn about atheists from those people who hate Atheists? They're answers would be biased, of course. Isn't it fair to learn a religion from it's people?

Seriously, give yourself a chance. If you would sit, and listen, guidance would enter your heart. You'd have the All-Merciful besides you. Your heart would be filled with contentment, comfort, joy and serenity, and you'd be protected by the All-Wise, All-Powerful. But if you block it (the path of guidance) yourself by your own hands, know that you are misleading yourself. And Allah, the Just, doesn't wrong anyone.

 

[Kt007]

Sorry about typos, I am unable to edit my posts. Please keep your responses short and to the point, there is no point derailing with person attacks, and lack of decorum. If I am mistake and I've come to the wrong forum I will happy leave, I only came back because I was emailed and requested by the admins to come back, otherwise I didn't really have much reason to come back. So please at least try to respect me on a human level at least. Don't take why questions about Islam, as a person attack on you, am not here for that, if you're genuinely upset with anything I say, if you ask me to leave I will leave.

 

[Kt007]

There are no mistakes in the Qur'aan. God is perfect and His word is perfect. Unfortunately, I don't have time to discuss your points, but I just want to say one thing.

Sure, I was speaking for myself to my understanding (an I am not an expert on Islam, far from it) it has mistakes and errors, I've not been convinced with the counter arguments that this is not the case.

I have read anti-Islamic claims, and they didn't make sense. But I wonder why do they have to resort to destorting the translations of the Qur'aan? Why do they have to resort to lying? Do they think we will leave the truth and follow their falsehood?

If I lie, then you can pull me up on it, I can't speak for others. I know their is alot of anti-Islamic nonsense out there, and I would never quote anything which wasn't true from there. I actually make sure to check my sources that they come from a reliable source.

As for you Kt007, sincerely saying this. Give yourself a chance. Learn Islam from Islamic sources. Wouldn't it be rather unwise for me to learn about atheists from those people who hate Atheists? They're answers would be biased, of course. Isn't it fair to learn a religion from it's people?

Yes, I am happy to learn about Islam, I have nothing to fear from Islam, in fact if I am convinced by Islam I would be glad to repent and comeback to Islam. Atheism isn't a belief, just like bald isn't a hair colour.

Seriously, give yourself a chance. If you would sit, and listen, guidance would enter your heart. You'd have the All-Merciful besides you. Your heart would be filled with contentment, comfort, joy and serenity, and you'd be protected by the All-Wise, All-Powerful. But if you block it (the path of guidance) yourself by your own hands, know that you are misleading yourself. And Allah, the Just, doesn't wrong anyone.

I can't block anything, Allah is the one who guides those who wants and seals the hearts of those who he wants, those who Allah sends astray none can guide them. So, from an Islamic perspective free will is really just an illusion, its really upto Allah.

 

['Abd-al Latif]

Before I attempt to address these "errors", I'm interested to know what field of law you are studying.

 

[Asiyah3]

Sure, I was speaking for myself to my understanding (an I am not an expert on Islam, far from it) it has mistakes and errors, I've not been convinced with the counter arguments that this is not the case.

Then I hope you'll read the responses coming from other members with an open mind, inshaAllah.

If I lie, then you can pull me up on it, I can't speak for others. I know their is alot of anti-Islamic nonsense out there, and I would never quote anything which wasn't true from there. I actually make sure to check my sources that they come from a reliable source.

I agree that all anti-Islamic sites are nonsense.

I can't block anything, Allah is the one who guides those who wants and seals the hearts of those who he wants, those who Allah sends astray none can guide them. So, from an Islamic perspective free will is really just an illusion, its really upto Allah.

Some people tend to have a misunderstanding that we have no control over our actions. This is not true. If we'd have no control over our actions, we couldn't be punished in Hell, as we wouldn't be responsible for our deeds. Allah created the human being with no sin. It is us who choose which path we take. Allah has given us the catalog, the sources of guidance -- the Qur'aan and Sunnah -- which show us the path to Paradise, and our success in both this life and the Hereafter. It is us who choose whether to follow that path or to reject it. The Qur'aan says:

"Verily, We showed him the way, whether he be grateful or ungrateful. "

The Prophet SAAS delivered the message of Islam both to one of his best companions, Abu Bakr and to one of the most deviant men, Abu Lahab. What happened? Abu Bakr accepted the message of Islam, while Abu Lahab chose to reject it, and thus closed the door to guidance from himself.

Those misguided people, cause themselves to be misguided. They were shown the straight path, they chose do reject it out of their own free will. Hence, Allah misguided them.

As for those who seek a path to the truth, Allah (swt) guides them to the straight path, and forgives all their previous sins.

 

[Kt007]

Before I attempt to address these "errors", I'm interested to know what field of law you are studying.

Crime, however at the moment I am not studying, having a gap year from university I did two years before. Well technically I still studying but not at a university, if you get what I mean.

 

['Abd-al Latif]

Crime, however at the moment I am not studying, having a gap year from university I did two years before. Well technically I still studying but not at a university, if you get what I mean.

Crime? I think you mean Criminal Law.

That's interesting. I have many books on this very subject. Tell me, have you witnessed any court proceedings?

 

[Kt007]

Then I hope you'll read the responses coming from other members with an open mind, inshaAllah.

Indeed.

I agree that all anti-Islamic sites are nonsense.

Can I make a slight correction, not anti-Islamic sites are nonsense that is simply untrue, there are reliable anti-Islamic websites, but I tend to try and make a distinction between anti-Islamic and anti-Muslim websites, I think you'll find the vast majority of anti-Muslim websites are simply their as a pretext to justify bigotry directed at the Muslim community, and are not generally created for the purpose of a genuine critique of Islam.

Some people tend to have a misunderstanding that we have no control over our actions. This is not true.

The verses in the Qu'ran are abundantly clear; surah 39 ayat 36.

If we'd have no control over our actions, we couldn't be punished in Hell, as we wouldn't be responsible for our deeds. Allah created the human being with no sin. It is us who choose which path we take. Allah has given us the catalog, the sources of guidance -- the Qur'aan and Sunnah -- which show us the path to Paradise, and our success in both this life and the Hereafter. It is us who choose whether to follow that path or to reject it. The Qur'aan says:

"Verily, We showed him the way, whether he be grateful or ungrateful. "

The Prophet SAAS delivered the message of Islam both to one of his best companions, Abu Bakr and to one of the most deviant men, Abu Lahab. What happened? Abu Bakr accepted the message of Islam, while Abu Lahab chose to reject it, and thus closed the door to guidance from himself.

Those misguided people, cause themselves to be misguided. They were shown the straight path, they chose do reject it out of their own free will. Hence, Allah misguided them.

As for those who seek a path to the truth, Allah (swt) guides them to the straight path, and forgives all their previous sins.

So let me get this straight you're saying that the message was given to those folks the truth, and yet they rejected the truth, so then Allah punished them by sealing their heats. Well, they clearly didn't think it was the truth otherwise it would have been irrational for them to not accept it. So the punishment isn't proportional to crime, and their is no chance or redemption, that seems extremely unjust. Since, if they were unable to see the truth when it was in plain sight to them, then one has to question where the faculties of these folks intact or where they simply brain-dead to reject Islam when they knew its the truth?

 

[Kt007]

Crime? I think you mean Criminal Law.

That's interesting. I have many books on this very subject. Tell me, have you witnessed any court proceedings?

Yeah, normally we just say crime, for sort, but yeah criminal law. Yes, I've witnessed a few court proceedings, not for anything too serious though, money laundering and drug dealing was maybe one of the biggest I sat in, it was a trail.

 

[Kt007]

trial*

 

[Ğħαrєєвαħ]

Firstly, Greetings of peace,

Welcome on board!

I'd like to mention from what I've read, you mentioned your far from the 'knowledgeable', so what makes you make the following statement?

I can't block anything, Allah is the one who guides those who wants and seals the hearts of those who he wants, those who Allah sends astray none can guide them. So, from an Islamic perspective free will is really just an illusion, its really upto Allah.

I'll correct you on that..

"Verily, Allah is not ashamed to set forth a parable even of a mosquito or so much more when it is bigger (or less when it is smaller) than it. And as for those who believe, they know that it is the Truth from their Lord, but as for those who disbelieve, they say: "What did Allah intend by this parable?" By it He misleads many, and many He guides thereby. And He misleads thereby only those who are Al-Fasiqun (the rebellious, disobedient to Allah ).Those who break Allah's Covenant after ratifying it, and sever what Allah has ordered to be joined (as regards Allah's religion of Islamic Monotheism, and to practise its laws on the earth and also as regards keeping good relations with kith and kin ), and do mischief on earth, it is they who are the losers" [Al Qur'aan 1:26-27]

Regards to Allaah SWT sealing the hearts of one, this does not take away 'free will'..Allaah is not unfair, one believes at his own will and disbelieves by his own..

So as you chose to leave Islam, this was entirely your choice, was it not or is this simply an illusion? and on what basis? I do not know..

Verily, those who disbelieve, it is the same to them whether you (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) warn them or do not warn them, they will not believe [Al Qur'aan 2:6]

As for this verse, read this..

(6. Verily, those who disbelieve, it is the same to them whether you warn them or do not warn them, they will not believe.)

Allah said,

﴿إِنَّ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُواْ﴾

(Verily, those who disbelieve) meaning, covered the truth and hid it. Since Allah has written that they would do so, it does not matter if you (O Muhammad ) warn them or not, they would still have disbelieved in what you were sent with. Similarly, Allah said,

﴿إِنَّ الَّذِينَ حَقَّتْ عَلَيْهِمْ كَلِمَةُ رَبِّكَ لاَ يُؤْمِنُونَ - وَلَوْ جَآءَتْهُمْ كُلُّ ءايَةٍ حَتَّى يَرَوُاْ الْعَذَابَ الاٌّلِيمَ ﴾

(Truly, those against whom the Word (wrath) of your Lord has been justified, will not believe. Even if every sign should come to them, until they see the painful torment) (10:96-97).

About the rebellious People of the Book, Allah said,

﴿وَلَئِنْ أَتَيْتَ الَّذِينَ أُوتُواْ الْكِتَـبَ بِكُلِّ ءَايَةٍ مَّا تَبِعُواْ قِبْلَتَكَ﴾

(And even if you were to bring to the People of the Book (Jews and Christians) all the Ayat, they would not follow your Qiblah (prayer direction)) (2:5).

These Ayat indicate that whomever Allah has written to be miserable, they shall never find anyone to guide them to happiness, and whomever Allah directs to misguidance, he shall never find anyone to guide him. So do not pity them - O Muhammad - deliver the Message to them. Certainly, whoever among them accepts the Message, then he shall gain the best rewards. As for those who turn away in rejection, do not feel sad for them or concerned about them, for

﴿فَإِنَّمَا عَلَيْكَ الْبَلَـغُ وَعَلَيْنَا الْحِسَابُ﴾

(Your duty is only to convey (the Message) and on Us is the reckoning) (13: 40), and,

﴿إِنَّمَآ أَنتَ نَذِيرٌ وَاللَّهُ عَلَى كُلِّ شَىْءٍ وَكِيلٌ﴾

(But you are only a warner. And Allah is a Wakil (Disposer of affairs, Trustee, Guardian) over all things) (11:12).

`Ali bin Abi Talhah reported that Ibn `Abbas said about Allah's statement,

﴿إِنَّ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُواْ سَوَآءٌ عَلَيْهِمْ ءَأَنذَرْتَهُمْ أَمْ لَمْ تُنذِرْهُمْ لاَ يُؤْمِنُونَ ﴾

(Verily, those who disbelieve, it is the same to them whether you (O Muhammad ) warn them or do not warn them, they will not believe) "That the Messenger of Allah was eager for all the people to believe and follow the guidance he was sent with. Allah informed him that none would believe except for those whom He decreed happiness for in the first place, and none would stray except those who Allah has decreed to do so in the first place.''

 

[Kt007]

Firstly, Greetings of peace,

Welcome on board!

I'd like to mention from what I've read, you mentioned your far from the 'knowledgeable', so what makes you make the following statement?

Salaam, and thank you. Yes, I am not an scholar on Islam I have some understanding of Islam. But that is not to see I am completely unaware of Islam or the arguments.

I'll correct you on that..

"Verily, Allah is not ashamed to set forth a parable even of a mosquito or so much more when it is bigger (or less when it is smaller) than it. And as for those who believe, they know that it is the Truth from their Lord, but as for those who disbelieve, they say: "What did Allah intend by this parable?" By it He misleads many, and many He guides thereby. And He misleads thereby only those who are Al-Fasiqun (the rebellious, disobedient to Allah ).Those who break Allah's Covenant after ratifying it, and sever what Allah has ordered to be joined (as regards Allah's religion of Islamic Monotheism, and to practise its laws on the earth and also as regards keeping good relations with kith and kin ), and do mischief on earth, it is they who are the losers" [Al Qur'aan 1:26-27]

Once more it seems irrational only a fool or someone lacking in mental faculties would rebel against, the truth of Islam, when the person knew the truth, and knew the consequence of the being sent to eternal punishment. You believe in Islam, you believe it is the truth and presumably you don't rebel against it right? I on the other-hand am not convinced of the truth claim of Islam, so I am not rebelling against the truth, I am simply not believing in something which I find to be untrue. Not believe in something which isn't true is not the same as rebelling AGAINST the truth.

Verily, those who disbelieve, it is the same to them whether you (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) warn them or do not warn them, they will not believe [Al Qur'aan 2:6]

Well what was the point of sending a prophet then? You tell me? You think this makes Allah look good?

As for this verse, read this..

(6. Verily, those who disbelieve, it is the same to them whether you warn them or do not warn them, they will not believe.)

Allah said,

﴿إِنَّ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُواْ﴾

(Verily, those who disbelieve) meaning, covered the truth and hid it. Since Allah has written that they would do so, it does not matter if you (O Muhammad ) warn them or not, they would still have disbelieved in what you were sent with. Similarly, Allah said,

﴿إِنَّ الَّذِينَ حَقَّتْ عَلَيْهِمْ كَلِمَةُ رَبِّكَ لاَ يُؤْمِنُونَ - وَلَوْ جَآءَتْهُمْ كُلُّ ءايَةٍ حَتَّى يَرَوُاْ الْعَذَابَ الاٌّلِيمَ ﴾

(Truly, those against whom the Word (wrath) of your Lord has been justified, will not believe. Even if every sign should come to them, until they see the painful torment) (10:96-97).

About the rebellious People of the Book, Allah said,

﴿وَلَئِنْ أَتَيْتَ الَّذِينَ أُوتُواْ الْكِتَـبَ بِكُلِّ ءَايَةٍ مَّا تَبِعُواْ قِبْلَتَكَ﴾

(And even if you were to bring to the People of the Book (Jews and Christians) all the Ayat, they would not follow your Qiblah (prayer direction)) (2:5).

These Ayat indicate that whomever Allah has written to be miserable, they shall never find anyone to guide them to happiness, and whomever Allah directs to misguidance, he shall never find anyone to guide him. So do not pity them - O Muhammad - deliver the Message to them. Certainly, whoever among them accepts the Message, then he shall gain the best rewards. As for those who turn away in rejection, do not feel sad for them or concerned about them, for

﴿فَإِنَّمَا عَلَيْكَ الْبَلَـغُ وَعَلَيْنَا الْحِسَابُ﴾

(Your duty is only to convey (the Message) and on Us is the reckoning) (13: 40), and,

﴿إِنَّمَآ أَنتَ نَذِيرٌ وَاللَّهُ عَلَى كُلِّ شَىْءٍ وَكِيلٌ﴾

(But you are only a warner. And Allah is a Wakil (Disposer of affairs, Trustee, Guardian) over all things) (11:12).

`Ali bin Abi Talhah reported that Ibn `Abbas said about Allah's statement,

﴿إِنَّ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُواْ سَوَآءٌ عَلَيْهِمْ ءَأَنذَرْتَهُمْ أَمْ لَمْ تُنذِرْهُمْ لاَ يُؤْمِنُونَ ﴾

(Verily, those who disbelieve, it is the same to them whether you (O Muhammad ) warn them or do not warn them, they will not believe) "That the Messenger of Allah was eager for all the people to believe and follow the guidance he was sent with. Allah informed him that none would believe except for those whom He decreed happiness for in the first place, and none would stray except those who Allah has decreed to do so in the first place.''

All you've done is proven what I've said, free will is an illusion.

 

[Ğħαrєєвαħ]

In Surah 41 verse 9 Allah says he created the earth first,*and it goes on from verse 9 through to 12*explaining*this, and in verse 11 it says he turned/directed*to the heavens and created the*heavens and then he decked the lower heaven with lamps. I am confused, what is the 'lower heaven' and what are 'lamps' I don't see any 'lamps' do you? So the earth was created right, and then Allah created lamps? What are these lamps, are the*genie*lamps or some other lamps?

From my understanding, it is the planets and stars that 'shine' or in other words considered 'lamps'...

versions of the Qu'ran. He ordered the burning of them

May I ask why? Please explain

The Qu'ran was complied over a long period of time, and their existed many versions at one time, and for this reason Uthman ordered the*burning*of all the rest of the copies which didn't match his version. The scholars (and I myself) agree since the Uthman's version the Qu'ran has not been changed

Compiled in exactly how many years?

So what is wrong with the 'uthmani' Qur'aan?

Well I did read English translations of the hadith.

How about study it in it's original form? Did you study the arabic it was revealed in? There are words that can have multiple meanings..

 

[Ğħαrєєвαħ]

Salaam, and thank you. Yes, I am not an scholar on Islam I have some understanding of Islam. But that is not to see I am completely unaware of Islam or the arguments.

greetings of peace to you, and you are welcome..

Once more it seems irrational only a fool or someone lacking in mental faculties would rebel against, the truth of Islam, when the person knew the truth, and knew the consequence of the being sent to eternal punishment. You believe in Islam, you believe it is the truth and presumably you don't rebel against it right? I on the other-hand am not convinced of the truth claim of Islam, so I am not rebelling against the truth, I am simply not believing in something which I find to be untrue. Not believe in something which isn't true is not the same as rebelling AGAINST the truth.

The point of me posting that verse is that Allaah does not guide without reason! Whether you believe or disbelieve, this is your choice indeed. To you are your ways, to me be mine.

Well what was the point of sending a prophet then? You tell me? You think this makes Allah look good?

The point of sending a 'messenger' was to guide one to the truth. A nation whom commited acts injustice, indecency, whom needed guidance etc etc, they were sent a messenger.

Nah, it shows free will. Read again 'Muhammad is to only CONVEY the message, people follow out of their will. In other words, he CANNOT force one to become muslim, if you are a muslim out of 'force', you are not one, simple.

All you've done is proven what I've said, free will is an illusion.

No, this is incorrect. I've provided evidence to what the verse means. The verse is explaining how he Muhammad (saw) wanted all to believe, but Allaah has informed him that he cannot. These people simply choose not to.

 

[Kt007]

From my understanding, it is the planets and stars that 'shine' or in other words considered 'lamps'...

Well it can't be THE planet i.e. planet earth, since Allah says he created the earth, so the earth was created before, and then there was a moment, when Allah turned towards the heavens and created the heavens (right) and then he decked the lower heaven with lamps, lamps would mean stars right?

May I ask why? Please explain

Why he demanded them to be burned/destroyed? Well we can only assume he wanted one version of the Qu'ran other versions must have been different.

Compiled in exactly how many years?

Many years, the message of Islam came to Muhammed over a long period of time. For a long time they were writing the verses on anything they could get their hands on, it wasn't until Uthman that a single unified Qu'ran was complied, this is why the Qu'ran no structure the verses are all over the place seemingly put in randomly, and many verses are repetitive.

So what is wrong with the 'uthmani' Qur'aan?

It's possibly has verses missing. Sunan Ibn Majah, Book of Nikah, Hadith # 1934)
Narrated Aisha 'The verse of stoning and of suckling an adult ten times were revealed, and they were (written) on a paper and kept
under my bed. When the Messenger of Allah (SAWW.) expired and we were preoccupied with his death, a goat entered and ate away the paper." - here a goat's ate the verses of stoning and suckling.

How about study it in it's original form? Did you study the arabic it was revealed in? There are words that can have multiple meanings?

[/QUOTE]

I think one can understand Islam without needing to be able to read it in Arabic, majority of Muslims are non-Arabic speakers.

 

[Kt007]

:wa: and you are welcome..

The point of sending a 'messenger' was to guide one to the truth. A nation whom commited acts injustice, indecency, whom needed guidance etc etc, they were sent a messenger.

Then this is inconsistent with the verse: Verily, those who disbelieve, it is the same to them whether you (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) warn them or do not warn them, they will not believe [Al Qur'aan 2:6]

It makes the mission of the prophet pointless.

Nah, it shows free will. Read again 'Muhammad is to only CONVEY the message, people follow out of their will. In other words, he CANNOT force one to become muslim, if you are a muslim out of 'force', you are not one, simple.

Even if its the case to show to the Prophet it still makes his mission pointless, unless Allah didn't know until the last minute which of course isn't possible. The verse is clear on this. Warn them or DO NOT warn them.

No, this is incorrect. I've provided evidence to what the verse means. The verse is explaining how he Muhammad (saw) wanted all to believe, but Allaah has informed him that he cannot. These people simply choose not to.

Yeah, and it also makes sending a prophet pointless, its not hard to understand, they choose not because Allah has sealed their hearts.

 

[Ğħαrєєвαħ]

Well it can't be THE planet i.e. planet earth, since Allah says he created the earth, so the earth was created before, and then there was a moment, when Allah turned towards the heavens and created the heavens (right) and then he decked the lower heaven with lamps, lamps would mean stars right?

Of course, what did you think the Qur'aan is sent to planet 'earth' lol, so it would obviously not apply to planet earth, other planets..

If I'm incorrect, someone feel free to correct me..

Why he demanded them to be burned/destroyed? Well we can only assume he wanted one version of the Qu'ran other versions must have been different.

This does not answer my question. Why he demanded them to be destroyed, except for his? If you are unaware of the answer, perhaps there is some studying you should do, inshaa'Allaah..

Many years, the message of Islam came to Muhammed over a long period of time. For a long time they were writing the verses on anything they could get their hands on, it wasn't until Uthman that a single unified Qu'ran was complied, this is why the Qu'ran no structure the verses are all over the place seemingly put in randomly, and many verses are repetitive.

How many exactly?

not random at all, I don't believe 'fatiha - Opening' is not random start at all..

It's possibly has verses missing. Sunan Ibn Majah, Book of Nikah, Hadith # 1934)
Narrated Aisha 'The verse of stoning and of suckling an adult ten times were revealed, and they were (written) on a paper and kept
under my bed. When the Messenger of Allah (SAWW.) expired and we were preoccupied with his death, a goat entered and ate away the paper." - here a goat's ate the verses of stoning and suckling.

This is interesting, i'm not gonna argue regards to the hadeeth as i'm no scholar, nor are you.

However, have you read all books of Ibn Majah?

I think one can understand Islam without needing to be able to read it in Arabic, majority of Muslims are non-Arabic spe

I disagree.

In order to understand the Qur'aan, you'd need to study the arabic is was revealed, funny that, not all 'arabic speakers' understand the Qur'anic arabic well..

 

[Kt007]

Of course, what did you think the Qur'aan is sent to planet 'earth' lol, so it would obviously not apply to planet earth, other planets..

Right, so their weren't any lamps until the lower heaven was decked with lamps? Or did the lamps exist? the verses clearly seem to imply that the lamps came after the earth do you agree with this or do you disagree with this?

This does not answer my question. Why he demanded them to be destroyed, except for his? If you are unaware of the answer, perhaps there is some studying you should do, inshaa'Allaah..

Well their are number of argument for this main one being that those who memorised the Qu'ran were dying, so there was a need to compile it.

How many exactly?

About 23 years.

not random at all, I don't believe 'fatiha - Opening' is not random start at all..

Some of the chapters are though. Sometimes Qu'ran switches topic mid way through.

This is interesting, i'm not gonna argue regards to the hadeeth as i'm no scholar, nor are you.

However, have you read all books of Ibn Majah?

So you're trying to say Ibn Majah is unreliable.

I disagree.

In order to understand the Qur'aan, you'd need to study the arabic is was revealed, funny that, not all 'arabic speakers' understand the Qur'anic arabic well..

OK.

 

[Ğħαrєєвαħ]

Then this is inconsistent with the verse: Verily, those who disbelieve, it is the same to them whether you (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) warn them or do not warn them, they will not believe [Al Qur'aan 2:6]

It makes the mission of the prophet pointless.

Really? Is that why the Masjid al haram exists till this day, with millions visiting every year, with individuals reverting to Islaam..

It is in fact only your own opinion, it does not change the facts.

Dude, the verse is explaining that we (all of muslims) cannot force one to be a muslim, there are those who choose not to, we cannot do anything about them, it is their CHOICE! They have been invited to the truth in the best of manners via Muhammad (pbuh), which you would know as muslims we believe is our role model, they still do not wish to. Even his uncle abu talib, was he forced to become Muslim? rest of his companions, relatives? Have you studied enough to call this pointless. Again, it is you and your opinion, and does not change the facts which you've no knowledge of ,as it seems.

Even if its the case to show to the Prophet it still makes his mission pointless, unless Allah didn't know until the last minute which of course isn't possible. The verse is clear on this. Warn them or DO NOT warn them.

Incorrect.

Read above.

Yeah, and it also makes sending a prophet pointless, its not hard to understand, they choose not because Allah has sealed their hearts.

You are incorrect.

It is after he (Muhammad PBUH) warned them, either way it didn't make any difference to them people. Note: Allaah is informing the prophet (pbuh), are you not aware God is All-knowing,i.e. knows the hearts of people, what they disclose and what they conceal?

So an example is , say someone says ' I believe ', but in their heart they really don't, they're intention is just to mess around, the people of course did not know, though Allaah (GOD), knows, he is informing his prophet..

Re-read my first post on this thread.

Chapter 2 verses 26- 27..