"Muslims are well-integrated in Britain – but no one seems to believe it"

[truthseeker63]

Re: "Muslims are well-integrated in Britain – but no one seems to believe it"


Homosexuality is not allowed in any Religion as far as I know.

 

[truthseeker63]

Re: "Muslims are well-integrated in Britain – but no one seems to believe it"

If homosexuals are real, then how can Islam disapprove of homosexuality?


Ok, from what I heard and read, some scientists "proved" that homosexuality is natural. Now while many, if not most, scientists refuted homosexuality and proved that it is unnatural, but I will go ahead and accept that homosexuality is natural for the sake of argument. I will take the worst case scenario in this article and still refute it by Allah Almighty's Will.

It is important to know that it is also natural for us to incline toward lusting after the opposite sex. So does this now justify lust, fornication and adultery? The answer is obviously NOT.


An addition by brother KL - a new convert to Islam; may Allah Almighty always be pleased with him. Ameen.
(Emphasis below are mine)
Subject: Medical proofs that homosexuality is unnatur al.
From: KL
To: [email protected]
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 14:55:51 +0100

I am a student of the third year of the faculty of medicine. When I was browsing your site
(http://www.answering-christianity.com/are_homosexuals_real.htm), I read the following sentence:
"Some scientists "proved" that homosexuality is natural. Now while many, if not most, scientists refuted homosexuality and proved that it is unnatural"
This is what the medical sciences have to say (I have learnt it during an lecture in Immunology):
Homosexual activity in males can cause infertility. That's because if semen is ejaculated to the rectum during the homosexual intercourse, it can contact white blood cells (the lymphocytes) which start produce antibodies against sperms. Later those antibodies start destroying the man's own sperms. This means that the man cannot have children.
I'm posting this because many Christian people still believe that there is nothing wrong with homosexuality. But no-one can seriously believe that a thing that makes one cannot have children is good and natural. Perhaps it would be good if you put this piece of medical evidence on your site, as it confirms what the Qur`an says about gays.
Humbly yours,
KL


Conclusion:
Neither homosexuality, lust, fornication or adultery are allowed in Islam. Therefore, even if a person thinks that he/she is a homosexual, then he/she needs to work on removing this evil desire from their heart and mind exactly as ordinary Muslims work on removing the evil desires of lust, fornication and adultery from their hearts and minds.

http://www.answering-christianity.com/are_homosexuals_real.htm

Since other groups who have been discriminated against (such as women, blacks and the disabled) have been given equal opportunity, homosexuals claim that they, too, should be liberated. However, as one Christian expert has said …

“Gender, race and impairment all relate to what a person is, whereas homosexuality relates to what a person does.”1


http://christiananswers.net/q-aig/aig-c040.html


[h=1]Gay Marriage = End of Human Race: Lessons from the Prop 8 TrialJune 17, 2010 by Audrey Bilgerhttp://msmagazine.com/blog/blog/201...rumble-society-lessons-from-the-prop-8-trial/
Alex Jones Says Gay People are Created by the Government

Uploaded by vilemonkey on Jun 11, 2010

Alex Jones Says Gay People are Created by the Government

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2w2TRxSLxw


[/h]









​

 

[truthseeker63]

Re: "Muslims are well-integrated in Britain – but no one seems to believe it"

Homosexuality is anti life anti procreation anti human therefor why do some people have an issue with the Sharia Law punishing Homosexuality or outlawing Homosexuality in public or in society ?

 

[truthseeker63]

Re: "Muslims are well-integrated in Britain – but no one seems to believe it"

Homosexuality harms the Children the Kids the Youths in society it is wrong to brainwash the Young that being Gay is normal. Homosexuals can not even procreate Children therefor it is fair to say Homosexuality is anti Children. Many People I have known who have Children even if they don't have Children People think Children should be protected I agree therefor don't allow Homosexuals to have Adoption rights. The video below if you watch the end of it shows People bringing Children to this Gay Pride Parade how sick ?

Islamic Demonstration Against NYC Gay Parade 2008(2of2)





Uploaded by islamicthinkers on Jul 3, 2009
Islamic Thinkers Society Demonstrating against the NYC Gay parade in 2008. May Allah s.w.t. the Creator be a witness over our deeds as we tried to forbid this evil with our tongues.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V04zQQk01RU&feature=relmfu

 

[M.I.A.]

Re: "Muslims are well-integrated in Britain – but no one seems to believe it"

so you put a person or plural to death.

and the next time somebody feels unsure about anything they will remember your answer.

brilliant society where the answer is off with his/her head.

before you or i was the devil.

your whispers and mine may not be the same, but your answers are not acceptable. your version of sharia law is something the taliban would carry with them.

and they could fight forever and not win.

the very people they fight for would get sick of them.

only those against them would be vindicated.



when you finally figure out that points of contention are traps then you may walk around them. so yeah homosexuality.. plastered all over the face of the world today.. just ready for your answer.

i would think a lot of people that are worried about there sexuality would be turned away from islam if there was only hellfire for them, things change gradually.. even if they became pious muslims would they still be seen as second class or worthless muslims?

well if they confided in you then just go by your own answers.

 

[GuestFellow]

Re: "Muslims are well-integrated in Britain – but no one seems to believe it"

Salaam,

I'm buying some ornaments for my new table. IKEA will be kind enough to make one for me.

I don't trust statistics. The articles lack information like about sample size. People change their beliefs on a regular basis, thus making these research studies unreliable. However, it does present an element of truth.

The comments on the Guardian website show many posters are very upset. :/

 

[glo]

Re: "Muslims are well-integrated in Britain – but no one seems to believe it"

At what point did this thread turn into (yet another) thread on homosexuality?
What's with the obsession with sex??

 

[sofiap]

Re: "Muslims are well-integrated in Britain – but no one seems to believe it"

i don't believe in any data, does give true value ..unless done over a vast amount of 'collective persons'..i am a British muslim, and i wasn't asked about the poll,and i'm sure many others weren't either...being good people is what we first need to grasp,I love the british people,the kindess is natural....there are always negative people,doesn't matter what people like to label themselves,i have learn't much awareness because i was not suppressed to think only one way only,[culture has that effect] ,kept my individualized footprint as a muslim,but also thrived on the 'old british values'....it's all about using our God given intellect...when we don't we will see misguidance and misunderstandings..that lead to other worse reactions...and intelligent people to not take everything that is given to them blindly,until proven otherwise, as they would understand the reality of data has its faults and its limitations,and its intentions....

 

[Pygoscelis]

Re: "Muslims are well-integrated in Britain – but no one seems to believe it"

When I see hate speech like what truthseeker posted above I tend to believe the statistics above that.

Homosexuality hurts children? How? Beyond the guilt and shame you make them feel and bullying they face because of your sentiment passed to your children and cohorts? You worry about flamboyant gay pride? It is a backlash to the shame you try to push on them. When you force people into closets (perhaps even on pain of death), then once you lose your iron fist over them they will come out loud and proud. We saw the same thing with Black Pride in the racist USA. It swings to an extreme, and beyond what it should be, because it is backlash.

Homosexuals can't reproduce and therefore homosexuality should be forbidden? What about infertile couples? Should they also be forbidden to marry?

Homosexuality is not natural? What do you mean by not natural? Is it supernatural? If you mean it doesn't happen in nature, that is clearly wrong, and even if that were true why would it matter? Is it natural for men to fly above the clouds? It is natural for men to venture deep below the sea or into space? Are you going to forbid airplanes, submarines, and space ships?

 

[aadil77]

Re: "Muslims are well-integrated in Britain – but no one seems to believe it"

Homosexuality is not natural?

packing someones fudge in order to gain pleasure is not natural

 

[جوري]

Re: "Muslims are well-integrated in Britain – but no one seems to believe it"

Homosexuality is not natural? What do you mean by not natural?

Futile cycles aren't considered natural look it up!

 

[جوري]

Re: "Muslims are well-integrated in Britain – but no one seems to believe it"

What about infertile couples? Should they also be forbidden to marry

Marriage & copulation through unnatural means are two separate things. In fact using someone's else's eggs or sperms should be forbidden.
Of course once they find out one guy fathered 200+ they change the laws a little as happened recently .. prevention never seems to play a role in western societies... it is always about pushing the envelope... some people are just unhappy until every law is broken!

 

[GuestFellow]

Re: "Muslims are well-integrated in Britain – but no one seems to believe it"

When I see hate speech like what truthseeker posted above I tend to believe the statistics above that.

Homosexuality hurts children? How? Beyond the guilt and shame you make them feel and bullying they face because of your sentiment passed to your children and cohorts? You worry about flamboyant gay pride? It is a backlash to the shame you try to push on them. When you force people into closets (perhaps even on pain of death), then once you lose your iron fist over them they will come out loud and proud. We saw the same thing with Black Pride in the racist USA. It swings to an extreme, and beyond what it should be, because it is backlash.

Homosexuals can't reproduce and therefore homosexuality should be forbidden? What about infertile couples? Should they also be forbidden to marry?

Homosexuality is not natural? What do you mean by not natural? Is it supernatural? If you mean it doesn't happen in nature, that is clearly wrong, and even if that were true why would it matter? Is it natural for men to fly above the clouds? It is natural for men to venture deep below the sea or into space? Are you going to forbid airplanes, submarines, and space ships?

Well to put it simply practicing homosexuality is not permissible because Islam states that this is the case. For some people, they may need more reasons. The human body is designed in a certain way and by adhering to it is considered natural. For two men to engage in anal sex is not considered natural because nothing is supposed to be entered in that part of the body. So that is another reason. Some may argue that not all homosexuals engage in this practice. Well homosexual marriages and other sexual activities may lead to anal sex, so we rather eliminate all the possibilities that lead to it.

You may get other arguments against homosexuality, but I admit they are not very good IMO. It does not end this issue. Like some say homosexuals are mentally disturbed. This opens another massive debate.

Anyway, I need to start asking you some questions. Why do you support homosexuality?

At what point did this thread turn into (yet another) thread on homosexuality?
What's with the obsession with sex??

It's an issue that has not been resolved. Some people think in order for Muslims to integrate into western society, they must accept/support homosexuality.

 

[Pygoscelis]

Re: "Muslims are well-integrated in Britain – but no one seems to believe it"

Well to put it simply practicing homosexuality is not permissible because Islam states that this is the case.

Yes that is what I thought. That and the "ick" factor. I too find homosexuality disgusting, but I don't consider that a reason to hate on homosexuals or forbid them what they want to do between consenting adults. I find a lot of things icky but it isn't my place to tell others not to do them, especially when I can see harm they are doing to me or anybody else.

Some may argue that not all homosexuals engage in this practice. Well homosexual marriages and other sexual activities may lead to anal sex, so we rather eliminate all the possibilities that lead to it.

Heterosexuals engage in anal sex as well. Should we ban that too?

Like some say homosexuals are mentally disturbed.

Which has no more basis than my overzealous anti-religious colleagues that say that religion is delusion and therefore you muslims are mentally disturbed. That kind of empty rhetoric runs in all directions and I see no reason to listen to it.

Anyway, I need to start asking you some questions. Why do you support homosexuality?

I don't support homosexuality. I am heterosexual and the thought of lust or sex acts with my own gender disgusts me. But I don't see any reason to stop others from loving who they will, so long as they don't harm others. I endorse live and let live and I will stand against hating people or harming them (ie, those who say homosexuals should be denied equal rights such as marriage, or even put to death).

I feel the same way when others are attacked, this isn't special to homosexuals. I strongly and frequently butt heads with Christian fundamentalists who want to do mean things to muslims. If homosexuals told me that they wanted to end Islam, deny muslims the right to marry, and even kill muslims for engaging in islamic prayer (because they declare it an abomination or something), I'd be making the same stance then as I am here, but the other way around.

 

[GuestFellow]

Re: "Muslims are well-integrated in Britain – but no one seems to believe it"

Yes that is what I thought. That and the "ick" factor. I too find homosexuality disgusting, but I don't consider that a reason to hate on homosexuals or forbid them what they want to do between consenting adults. I find a lot of things icky but it isn't my place to tell others not to do them, especially when I can see harm they are doing to me or anybody else.

It has nothing to do with being gross at all for me at least. I mentioned why I do not support homosexuality. That is the reason. Nothing more. I will simply tell people what I believe and allow them the freedom to choose what is right and wrong.

In an Islamic state, one has to engage in sexual activities in public to actually get executed.

Heterosexuals engage in anal sex as well. Should we ban that too?

Well it is not permissible for a man to have anal sex with his wife in Islam. So it's banned. Whether people follow this practice is up to them.

I don't support homosexuality. I am heterosexual and the thought of lust or sex acts with my own gender disgusts me. But I don't see any reason to stop others from loving who they will, so long as they don't harm others. I endorse live and let live and I will stand against hating people or harming them (ie, those who say homosexuals should be denied equal rights such as marriage, or even put to death).

Well that's interesting. We both have a different idea of what support means.

By supporting homosexuality, I mean:

1. You state that homosexuals should be allowed to engage in sexual activities.
2. You support homosexuals getting married.

I think you meet those two criteria.

Also would you support a father marrying his own daughter? They are not harming anyone, nor they are planning to have children. So would this be right? I'm just trying to understand where your coming from. Overall it appears if something does not harm you, you will not have any issue with it.

There is another reason why I do not support homosexuality. It opens floodgate into all sorts of marriages. Marriage can then occur between immediate family members, to objects or even dead bodies. Sometimes I think legalising homosexuality should take its course and see what impact will have.

I feel the same way when others are attacked, this isn't special to homosexuals. I strongly and frequently butt heads with Christian fundamentalists who want to do mean things to muslims. If homosexuals told me that they wanted to end Islam, deny muslims the right to marry, and even kill muslims for engaging in islamic prayer (because they declare it an abomination or something), I'd be making the same stance then as I am here, but the other way around.

I'm aware you believe that.

 

[Pygoscelis]

Re: "Muslims are well-integrated in Britain – but no one seems to believe it"

Well that's interesting. We both have a different idea of what support means.

By supporting homosexuality, I mean:

1. You state that homosexuals should be allowed to engage in sexual activities.
2. You support homosexuals getting married.

I think you meet those two criteria.

That would be a very different definition of "support" to me indeed. Do I also support Islam under this definition? I state that muslims should be allowed to engage in prayer. I support muslims getting married. Seems I meet the criteria even though many here would call me anti-muslim.

There is another reason why I do not support homosexuality. It opens floodgate into all sorts of marriages. Marriage can then occur between immediate family members, to objects or even dead bodies. Sometimes I think legalising homosexuality should take its course and see what impact will have.

I actually see the whole gay marriage debate as highlighting something far more important to me - that being the separation of church and state. I do not believe the church should have any business telling the state who should be married and entitled to certain legal status in regard to one another. And I also do not believe that the state should have any business telling the church who is must recognize in a spirtual bond, etc. Marriage as we now have it clouds the church and the state, and I think that should be split.

I think we should have civil unions for everybody who wants to enter them, including family members, people with the same gender, and any other consenting adults, in whatever number wants to sign on (poligamy is fine with me) brigning with them the legal status that marriage now holds. This would be a legal arrangement, with no spiritual or cultural significance.

In addition people could then get "Married" and "marriage" would hold no legal status, and only spiritual and cultural significance. Marriages could then be recognized or not recognized by individual religions as they see fit. You wouldn't have to recognize gay marriage and I could, and nobody's legal rights would be in the balance.

 

[GuestFellow]

Re: "Muslims are well-integrated in Britain – but no one seems to believe it"

That would be a very different definition of "support" to me indeed. Do I also support Islam under this definition? I state that muslims should be allowed to engage in prayer. I support muslims getting married. Seems I meet the criteria even though many here would call me anti-muslim.

Well your supporting Muslims to practice their religion. I would say you are indirectly supporting Islam here. From your perspective, there is nothing wrong with supporting homosexuality?

I actually see the whole gay marriage debate as highlighting something far more important to me - that being the separation of church and state. I do not believe the church should have any business telling the state who should be married and entitled to certain legal status in regard to one another. And I also do not believe that the state should have any business telling the church who is must recognize in a spirtual bond, etc. Marriage as we now have it clouds the church and the state, and I think that should be split.

I think we should have civil unions for everybody who wants to enter them, including family members, people with the same gender, and any other consenting adults, in whatever number wants to sign on (poligamy is fine with me) brigning with them the legal status that marriage now holds. This would be a legal arrangement, with no spiritual or cultural significance.

In addition people could then get "Married" and "marriage" would hold no legal status, and only spiritual and cultural significance. Marriages could then be recognized or not recognized by individual religions as they see fit. You wouldn't have to recognize gay marriage and I could, and nobody's legal rights would be in the balance.

Well I remember you mentioning this before. It sounds like a practicable solution for now.

From your second paragraph, I assuming you accept/support people to marry their own immediate family members. Is this correct?

 

[Pygoscelis]

Re: "Muslims are well-integrated in Britain – but no one seems to believe it"

Well your supporting Muslims to practice their religion. I would say you are indirectly supporting Islam here. From your perspective, there is nothing wrong with supporting homosexuality?

I have no problem with homosexuals or homosexuality. I support equal rights and fair treatment for them, for muslims, and for everybody else.

From your second paragraph, I assuming you accept/support people to marry their own immediate family members. Is this correct?

I would have no problem with civil unions between immeidate family members, no. I would be concerned if the arrangement was romantic and if they tried to have children though, due to the health risks that introduces.

 

[GuestFellow]

Re: "Muslims are well-integrated in Britain – but no one seems to believe it"

I would have no problem with civil unions between immeidate family members, no. I would be concerned if the arrangement was romantic and if they tried to have children though, due to the health risks that introduces.

Yes this is the problem. By legalising homosexuality, you allow these other types of marriages. Marriage between immediate family members can result in babies with medical conditions. Even if the law states, marriage between immediate family members cannot have children, there is a possibility that they will.

 

[Pygoscelis]

Re: "Muslims are well-integrated in Britain – but no one seems to believe it"

Yes this is the problem. By legalising homosexuality, you allow these other types of marriages.

No you don't.

Marriage between immediate family members can result in babies with medical conditions.

Only if the people have sex. My concept of civil union has nothing to do with sex.

Even if the law states, marriage between immediate family members cannot have children, there is a possibility that they will.

There is a possibility that they will regardless of if they are married. Why do you presume that immediate family members that want to have sex will wait until they are married?