Worldwide caliph

[Bornagain]

Much has been said, on various websites, about Muslims desire for a world wide caliphate under which all would necessarily convert to Islam or be dhimmis and live as 2nd class citizens under protective treaties that may or may not be honored. (Or at the worst, convert or die) There is known persecution of Christians in Muslim countries. Articles are available that tell of torture, imprisonment and death for Christians who refuse to convert or for those who convert to Christianity from Islam. How is it said then that Islam is a peaceful religion which honors human life? (Someone said that on another thread)

 

[جوري]

I am not sure you've learned anything from either threads you started and if it weren't obvious before that you're a troll it's certainly obvious now. It's unfortunate for folks to have labored so much to teach you something and you insist on being this dense all throughout- I hope no one bothers to dignify your incessantly vitriolic nonsensical threads with a response from this point on!
You're a poster child for the bible thumping bumpkins that spring out of the belt!
Good luck learning anything that doesn't conform with your mangod religion

 

[Aprender]

Answer these first, please: Are you serious? Or are you trying to start trouble?

If you're serious I will proceed to answer the question, in shaa Allah but only after I get an answer from you.

Thank you.

 

[Mustafa2012]

Much has been said, on various websites, about Muslims desire for a world wide caliphate under which all would necessarily convert to Islam or be dhimmis and live as 2nd class citizens under protective treaties that may or may not be honored. (Or at the worst, convert or die) There is known persecution of Christians in Muslim countries. Articles are available that tell of torture, imprisonment and death for Christians who refuse to convert or for those who convert to Christianity from Islam. How is it said then that Islam is a peaceful religion which honors human life? (Someone said that on another thread)

Firstly I don't know who you've been speaking to or what websites you've been visiting but going on the assumptions you've made in the other thread "Why the violence?" it seems that you've got a very negative image of Islaam?

If anyone is forcing people to convert or oppressing them due to their choice of religion that is clearly wrong and unacceptable. Whoever is doing this is committing oppression and doing it out of a wrong understanding of Islam.

If you look into the history of Islam you will find many incidents where Jews and Christians were allowed to live in Muslim countries under peace and protection.

Unfortunately the media is quick to find stories of oppression against non Muslims and make big news of it and try to make it sound like it is the norm when it isn't.

They are also very slow to report many stories of oppression against Muslims by non Muslims which is a bit sad and disappointing.

 

[جوري]

Why are we making excuses for this broad? Lol - unfortunately I still have no net access power/ water etc. but someone should YouTube for this chick all the evangelizing crusaders let loose in the Muslim world and especially in Afghanistan or even here the pedophile creeps taunting little Muslim boys trying to force convert them? Are we forcing a caliphate or they their own brand of 'democracy' by force.
Someone should ban this bot she's starting to get on my nerves!

 

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you Bornagain; we are Christian guests on an Islamic forum,

The greatest thing that Jesus commanded us to do was to love God and to love our neighbours as we love ourselves. If we do anything less than these commandments means we are not doing a greatest good

In the spirit of praying for a greater interfaith tolerance and friendship,

Eric

 

[Perseveranze]

"I've come on these forums to hear Muslims side of the story, because my infallible best friend and Church Priest said Islam is evil. I wanted to ask, why do Muslims kill and try to force people to convert to Islam?"

*Ignores "Muslim side of the story"

"why do Muslims kill and try to force people to convert to Islam?"

Something like that lol

 

[Hulk]

Wow you used the word "dhimmi". You must know all about it.

 

[Scimitar]

\pre-crusade Jerusalem... nuff said. !!!!

 

[M.I.A.]

the way i see it, persecution works at an individual level way before governmental level.

we do it each and every day simply to survive.

maybe we dont know we are doing it but the majority do.


thats the pivot of the question, unless a person can work out how persecution works.. how can you expect them to set rules and guidlines to protect individual freedoms.

and sometimes they need saving from themselves.. so some of the laws seem extremely prohibitive.


as for persecution of other religions, its easily done from the top. but you would expect more from people that came from the bottom.

live and learn.

a case in point is the jews.

they experienced the holocaust first hand (recent history, although it is a common theme)

and yet they do the same to palestinians.

i know its a case of safegaurding there own and to stop persecution of the jews.. but at the same time overlooking all the errors in judgement along the way.


in conclusion.

a caliphate of just rule should be established on firm foundations.. the pillars of faith should not be forgotten in the pursuit of building a united kingdom.

otherwise they will always collapse under the pressure.



in my personal opinion, the wicked west is the most free in terms of practising religion, freedom of speech and personal liberty.

sure it allows for behaviour condemned in islam and allows for those views to be aired.


but if anybody ever had a chance to be heard it is in the west rather than the east. if you cant make it work in the west then there is no hope of getting it right anywhere else.

actually trying to do anything about it will lead you to a very detailed understanding of persecution.


...i have said before that islam did not start of as a government but a movement, encountering much persecution.

i guess you learn the most when you dont have the upper hand.

 

[- Qatada -]

\pre-crusade Jerusalem... nuff said. !!!!

Salahuddin, or Saladin

Bornagain, read about him here:
http://www.islamicboard.com/islamic-history-biographies/924-salahuddin-ayyubi-saladin-al-din.html


Extract:

The non-Muslims of Jerusalem asked for mercy and he gave it. Every man, woman and child was allowed to ransom themselves for a paltry price. He kept order in every street and refused to allow the People of the Book to be verbally abused, much less molested. What a far cry from the victorious Christians of 1099 (and the 1980s) who killed, tortured, shot in cold blood and burnt defenceless Muslims in the streets of Al-Aqsa. “Fortunate were the merciless because they obtained mercy at the hands of the Muslim Sultan,” said Lane.

 

[Scimitar]

You know what I really think is a fail about forums? any tom dick and herbert schmuck face will ask troll questions without seeking to find answers themselves first.

Just because this is a Muslim forum, it doesn't mean we're all historians now does it? Nor does it mean anything else. All a forum is really is a message board - and not some kind of resource site. Sure, there will be links to resources - but will trolls ever use the "search" function? no.

M.O noted, I ask you all to be ready to fire back with questions which expose their all too obvious M.O and lack of research on questions they seek answers to.

@Qatada, bro, you on the ball as always.

 

[Bornagain]

Wow. I'm a "troll broad", a "tom dick and herbert schmuck face" and what else? Vitriol is very easily produced here it seems. What I've heard so far is defensive, angry and hateful retorts to my posts. And a great deal about how everyone picks on the Muslims, how "unfair" and onesided it all is. It is exactly what I hear from other groups that have the same martyr attitudes. Now, it may be that Muslims are and have been mistreated. I don't know. As someone here has said, "we" are not historians. Well, neither am I. I've heard repeatedly here and other places about the terrible Crusaders and their violence and murders and on and on. Things that happened so long ago seem to be very much a presence in some people's thinking. And the blurring of edges between Christians and military actions by the US and other countries is also becoming clear. It is almost as if the US and other countries military is made up of Christians, which I can assure you in the case of the US, at least, is most definitely NOT true.

I don't know exactly what produced such vitriolic reactions to my posts but one thing is also becoming clear and that is that I'm not getting answers to the questions but mainly rebukes, sometimes worded in very rude, hateful ways, sometimes in cautionary ways. I've heard a Muslim speaker say that there is no freedom of speech in Islam. Though I think it was intended to say there is not freedom to speak against Mohammed or the god of Islam, it does seem to be part of the thinking on this forum. I don't intend to stop posting, so fire away, you brave mud slingers. Just btw, I have gone to some of the sites mentioned to me. And read from them. (Just so you know, Scimitar.)

 

[جوري]

Glad you enjoyed the word I used to describe your posts enough to use it repeatedly in yours!
What you think and write is utterly irrelevant and inconsequential otherwise a desperate plea for attention after repeated & petty attempts at a drive by shooting!
Ugh

 

[Samiun]

Why is this guy/girl not banned again? He/she is probablt wanting to see us to react in a hateful manner, but I'm sure u guys knew that this is a troll lol..

edit: It's kinda ironic that you say that the US army isn't made up of Christians but you treat a different way about Muslims that you see on T.V.. If you are genuine with your question, then start answering the posts by other members and not just trash talk about Islam

 

[Aprender]

I was trying to give her a chance to show her sincerity but I guess not. Didn't get my questions answered. You know, I was a Christian on this forum for a while too and I had questions but I never framed them in such a hateful and dishonest way like this person has. And if I did I apologized beforehand out of my own ignorance.

It is almost as if the US and other countries military is made up of Christians, which I can assure you in the case of the US,

You know what, a few people you're talking to on this forum right now are Americans so don't try to act like we Muslims know nothing about the U.S. We are everywhere. We have a few Muslims and a Hindu holding seats in Congress. That's another part of your attitude that I don't like. Thinking we're all far off in some foreign land and don't know anything about the U.S. It's patronizing. I get it, we sometimes want to look for understanding and commonality to better ourselves and change our outlook but you cannot do what you're doing then expect Muslims here to not advise you to change your method of inquiry.

You can't talk to people with preconceived notions about who they are and about our religion repeating lies and hateful thinking you've heard from others and expect us to take you seriously. You just can't. And now you're right here saying there is no freedom of speech in Islam due to your own intellectual faults and bias. That's why you got the reactions you got.

Since you couldn't take the time to answer my questions I will have to respectfully decline to answer yours. Have a wonderful day and I do hope that you gain some sincerity in your heart some day and want to learn the truth about Islam.

Peace.

 

[Scimitar]

Wow. I'm a "troll broad", a "tom dick and herbert schmuck face"

Your name is herbert? thought you was a woman... funny ole world isn't it?

and what else? Vitriol is very easily produced here it seems. What I've heard so far is defensive, angry and hateful retorts to my posts. And a great deal about how everyone picks on the Muslims, how "unfair" and onesided it all is. It is exactly what I hear from other groups that have the same martyr attitudes.

Martyr attitudes. pfft. This is a message board, not Afghanistan. Post in context of the place you visit, and not the bias you harbour in your heart.

Now, it may be that Muslims are and have been mistreated. I don't know. As someone here has said, "we" are not historians. Well, neither am I. I've heard repeatedly here and other places about the terrible Crusaders and their violence and murders and on and on. Things that happened so long ago seem to be very much a presence in some people's thinking. And the blurring of edges between Christians and military actions by the US and other countries is also becoming clear. It is almost as if the US and other countries military is made up of Christians, which I can assure you in the case of the US, at least, is most definitely NOT true.

Actually it is true. Most of America is Christian - maybe you conveniently forgot that. You've got problems on your own shores - especially with that Westboro Church, who are coincidentally - Americas biggest terrorists. Must I remind you that they bomb abortion clinics in your country? I've got stats that will make you raise an eyebrow and think twice about throwing allegations around.

As for the crusader era reference I made, the shame is that you failed to realise the relevance of the post. Maybe you didn't know that when Muslims ruled over Jerusalem, the Dhimmi's were actually better off than the Muslims - even financially. They also enjoyed the same freedoms that Muslims did, and fought together - Muslims, Christians and Jews, against a common enemy - the Crusaders. in some places, knee deep in blood. Why would they do that? I ask you to think.

I don't know exactly what produced such vitriolic reactions to my posts but one thing is also becoming clear and that is that I'm not getting answers to the questions but mainly rebukes, sometimes worded in very rude, hateful ways, sometimes in cautionary ways. I've heard a Muslim speaker say that there is no freedom of speech in Islam. Though I think it was intended to say there is not freedom to speak against Mohammed or the god of Islam, it does seem to be part of the thinking on this forum. I don't intend to stop posting, so fire away, you brave mud slingers. Just btw, I have gone to some of the sites mentioned to me. And read from them. (Just so you know, Scimitar.)

Nice rant. I'll attempt to indulge you a little.

People here have answered your questions, in that other thread - yet you have largely ignored their answers and decided to open this thread instead. No doubt, if I went to a Christian forum and started griping on about the inconsistencies in the bible, and got responses which I ignored - then created a thread which repeated the same M.O, the Christians would surely be annoyed. Especially since they took the time to post so you can get some answers.

With regard to FREE SPEECH, we do actually have it in Islam. Infact, any normal lay person has the right to accuse the khaliph of not fulfilling his duties to the Ummah (Muslim Nations). We don't have a khlaiph atm, simply because the Ottomon empire was engineered to collapse by the Brits, with the help of the House of Saud - it finally fell in the year 1924.

Since then, FREE SPEECH has been engineered to be curbed in the Muslim nations, the fear of getting shot dead for speaking up against the puppet powers that be is apparently too much for simple folk. But all that is changing now - since 2011 we have seen rebellions rising up all over the Muslim nations. Seems we've finally had enough.

I want to add that FREE SPEECH is a joke in America, your first amendment is a complete joke. A contradiction of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. It's become such an issue that even the BBC had to address it recently. You shoulda seen the complaints profile that resulted from the programme.

See, in the USA, FREE SPEECH is supporting HATE SPEECH.

here, check this out: http://vigilantcitizen.com/vcboards/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=17719 you might come to understand that there are some good hearted Christians who know that the first amendment contradicts their very own faith. You may even learn from them, and not the trolls who posted in that thread.

As for speaking against the Prophet Muhammad pbuh or Allah, who is your God and my God - with a CAPITAL "G", I may add - do what you will.

Do you know what happens when people try to belittle Islam in the west? I give you one example. Recall that pastor who held the burn a Quran day. His congregation consisted of 30 people, mostly members of his own family... his stunt attracted the media the world over. People from his own town decided to know about Islam, what it was and why it was so "bad" and "evil". Guess what? In total - more than 30 people from his very own locality came to embrace Islam - more than his entire congregation. So really - we're not that worried. Only those poor, uneducated, teens who have too many hormones and not enough sense go all awol and decide to kill ambassadors - an act that is abhorred by the Muslim community at large.

I'm pleased you went to the sites some have mentioned to you.

I also sympathise with you a little actually. We do have some rather gung ho members here. And some who are very mild mannered too - it seems that the gung ho ones have managed to paint us all with the same brush.

Also, when I made that Tom Dick and Herbert comment, I wasn't aiming it at you, it was more of a generalisation due to past experiences on the forum. We've had trolls aplenty here, sister BornAgain.

Now that I know you aren't a one post wonder who will disappear, I will endeavour to indulge your curiosities. I'm pleased you posted back, maybe now we can open a proper rapport between us. You will find that we aren't that different. We have much in common.

Scimi

 

[Bornagain]

Why is this guy/girl not banned again? He/she is probablt wanting to see us to react in a hateful manner, but I'm sure u guys knew that this is a troll lol..

edit: It's kinda ironic that you say that the US army isn't made up of Christians but you treat a different way about Muslims that you see on T.V.. If you are genuine with your question, then start answering the posts by other members and not just trash talk about Islam

How would you like me to answer, Samiun? And where am I "trash talking" about Islam? The reactions on this forum to my posts is very revealing of the mind set of some on here who are apparently Muslim. "Wanting to see "us" react in a hateful manner"? Did I have to wait at all for that to show up? As far as "not answering questions", so far as I can see there are none for me to answer, just mine that don't get answered.

 

[جوري]

Take a lesson 'BornAgain' of how questions should be posed and what a fair exchange looks like from this thread:
http://www.islamicboard.com/comparative-religion/134316174-pondering-judaism-islam.html

it doesn't take a genius to see what you're doing here as if your two previous threads weren't a strong indication already as is.
You've already posed an answered your own Q's so what exactly is your purpose on this forum? for us to work really really hard at dispersing myths you've already convinced yourself of?
No thanks, that is an absolute waste of everyone's time. If you don't like Muslims and don't like it here then don't be a member here!


best,

 

[IslamicRevival]

Much has been said, on various websites, about Muslims desire for a world wide caliphate under which all would necessarily convert to Islam or be dhimmis and live as 2nd class citizens under protective treaties that may or may not be honored. (Or at the worst, convert or die) There is known persecution of Christians in Muslim countries. Articles are available that tell of torture, imprisonment and death for Christians who refuse to convert or for those who convert to Christianity from Islam. How is it said then that Islam is a peaceful religion which honors human life? (Someone said that on another thread)

With all due respect, you are insulting your own intelligence by posting such a question as it isnt very wise to jugde a nation of 1.5 billion + Muslims based on hearsay off the internet. Muslims do not live in the virtual world and if you want to judge Islam, judge it by the teachings of our beloved Prophet (Infinite peace and blessings be upon him), not by what the average joe says on the internet.

Islam is a beautiful religion, a religion which promotes peace but unfortunately not all Muslims (A minority) are peaceful. I could say the same about most religions but i'd be foolish to demonize an entire community based on the actions of a few loose cannons.

Peace out